HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-20-15-WS 'It
,fiRQEN HILLS
Approved: May 26, 2015
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
APRIL 20, 2015
5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Grant called to order the City Council work
session at 5:06 p.m.
Present: Mayor David Grant; Councilmembers Brenda Holden, Fran Holmes, Dave
McClung, and Robert Woodburn
Absent: None
Also present: City Administrator Patrick Klaers; Public Works Director Terry Maurer;
Community Development Director Jill Hutmacher; City Planner Ryan Streff; Associate
Planner Matthew Bachler; City Attorney Joel Jamnik; and City Clerk Amy Dietl
Mayor Grant suggested that the Council discuss Item B first as a resident was present to discuss
the Canadian Pacific Railroad.
1. AGENDA ITEMS
B. Canadian Pacific Railroad
Councilmember Woodburn explained that the railroad track was a nuisance in the City, but
there was little the Council could do. He reported that the tanker cars moving through Arden Hills
were empty and of little danger to the City. He believed it would be nice if the Council drafted a
letter to the local and state representatives asking that a pipeline be built, as this would be a more
efficient manner to transfer oil. He commented that he was concerned with the vapor pressure of
the tanker cars.
Councilmember Holmes stated that the Council could discuss pipelines, but they take 10 to 12
years to build.
Mayor Grant discussed the three main rail lines that ran into the cities. He provided comment on
his experience with the train as he lives near the rail lines.
Further discussion ensued regarding the rail traffic and train horns blowing in the City.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION—APRIL 20, 2015 2
Councilmember Holmes understood that the train conductors only sound the horns if there are
animals or if it is an at-grade crossing. She noted that the other noise issue is related to the trains
stopping, backing up, and starting again.
Councilmember Holden suggested that the City request that the train horns not blow unless
absolutely necessary.
City Planner Streff commented that he has spoken with Andy Cummings, Canadian Pacific,
about these issues in the City and Mr. Cummings stated that he would be available to attend a
future City Council work session if the Council wanted to have a discussion with Canadian
Pacific.
Councilmember Holden did not believe it was the City's place to write letters to the federal
government regarding the railroad. She suggested that an open house be held with the railroad
representatives versus a work session with the Council.
Councilmember Holmes agreed.
Mayor Grant indicated that the number of trains was on the rise and this was concerning to him.
He suggested that an open house meeting with the railroad be held in conjunction with the City of
New Brighton.
Vince Pellegrin, Chief Operating Officer at Metro Transit and Arden Hills resident - 1977 Thom
Drive, discussed train safety and asked that the City encourage Canadian Pacific to slow down the
speed at which the trains pass through the City.
City Administrator HIaers commented that staff would contact railroad representatives at
Canadian Pacific to inquire about an open house meeting.
A. Rice Creek Commons (TCAAP)
City Administrator HIaers stated that the staff report from Community Development Director
Hutmacher was in the agenda packet for the Council's review.
Community Development Director Hutmacher stated that at the January 20, 2015, City Council
work session, as the City was nearing the completion of work on the TCAAP Redevelopment
Code (TRC), Ramsey County asked that the City delay final approval of the TRC until a "Fit
Test" could be completed. The Fit Test included two possible development scenarios:
1. Option 1 in which development patterns and densities adhered strictly to the draft TRC;
and
2. Option 2 which replicated how a developer might lay out the site to meet market demand
for product types.
Community Development Director Hutmacher reported that Option 2 was presented at the
April 13, 2015, special work session. City Councilmembers expressed concerns and directed staff
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION—APRIL 20, 2015 3
to schedule Rice Creek Commons (TCAAP) as the topic for this April 20, 2015, work session for
further discussion.
Mayor Grant questioned how the Council wanted to proceed with the TRC given the information
that was provided to the City from the Fit Test. He reported that Fit Test Option 2 does not work
for him. He suggested that the Council review the neighborhoods one at a time and work through
the housing styles and density. He proposed that the Council begin discussion with the Creek and
move to the Hill neighborhood.
Councilmember McClung believed that a big picture, broad view of the TRC had to be
considered prior to taking this approach.
Mayor Grant was encouraged by what the Council learned from the Fit Test regarding the Town
neighborhood, as it may be overly dense and require more flexibility. He understood that the
County wanted to see more flexibility. However, he did not understand how this worked into the
City's vision, especially with the Hill and Creek neighborhoods. He wanted to ensure that the
Council's vision was realized on the TCAAP property.
Councilmember Holmes requested further information on the Land Use Plan.
Community Development Director Hutmacher discussed how the City would use the Land Use
Plan for the TCAAP site.
Councilmember McClung stated that if the Council supported the Land Use Plan as it stands
today, the City would not be able to practically meet the maximum density of 1480 units within
the TRC. He commented that flexibility would have to be written into the TRC in order to reach
the proposed number of units.
Community Development Director Hutmacher stated that this was the case. She reported that
if the Council supported 1480 units on TCAAP, staff would appreciate direction in order to begin
making adjustments to the TRC to achieve this number.
Councilmember Woodburn was in favor of looking at the overall density instead of a specific
number.
Councilmember Holden explained that she has been running the numbers and did not want to
see the site over-developed. It was her opinion that Fit Test Option 2 was too dense. She was in
favor of seeing more detail on how the residential roadways would be connected throughout the
neighborhoods.
Public Works Director Maurer reported that the County has given up on the idea of bringing a
roadway from County Road I to the Creek neighborhood. He asked the County to split the
entrance road to the Creek neighborhood for safety purposes.
The Council further discussed Neighborhood district density.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION—APRIL 20, 2015 4
Community Development Director Hutmacher reviewed the comments provided by Mary
Bujold with Maxfield with regard to density within the three neighborhoods. She reported that
Ms. Bujold was recommending more NB-2 and suggested slightly smaller and fewer lots in N13-1.
Councilmember Holden indicated that the Council would have to decide what it wanted to see in
the Creek neighborhood, whether this means 64 larger lots with ample room for homes or
dropping the lot size to increase the density. She explained that the Council would have to
determine if it really wanted to reach the 1480 unit number.
Mayor Grant wanted the Creek and Hill neighborhoods to resemble a suburban style
neighborhood. He explained that the majority of Arden Hills' lots were 85 to 95 feet wide.
Councilmember Woodburn agreed, stating that he wanted to see the City build TCAAP in the
way that they wanted.
Councilmember Holden expressed frustration that the City was being asked to ignore the
previous Maxfield studies and their findings. She believed that the County was taking TCAAP in
an entirely different direction than the previous findings.
Mayor Grant did not think it would be wise to ignore these earlier findings.
Councilmember Holden recommended that the Council go back and reread the findings from the
most recent (2013) Maxfield study.
Councilmember McClung stated that his vision for TCAAP was to reach the upper bookmark
with regard to density. He wanted to see TCAAP to be a high class, different destination that
drew people to the site. He was hoping that a high-caliber development would take shape. He
anticipated that higher density would lead to more mass transit options. He wanted to see high
grade commercial development, along with retail, which also required density. He supported Fit
Test Option 2 as he believed this closely aligned with this vision.
Councilmember Holden indicated that the County has committed $1.7 million to the water
feature. She believed that density would not ensure that TCAAP was a destination. She stated
that the retail that decided to locate within the development is what would make TCAAP a
destination. She recommended that the sustainability of the development be considered more
valuable than it being high-class. She did not want to see the Council focusing too much on a
certain density level given the fact that mass transit would not be guaranteed. She did not want to
see the lots in the Hill and Creek neighborhoods to be too crammed together. She wanted to see
these neighborhoods be special or unique and not typical.
Councilmember Holmes was in favor of getting rid of the I10-foot wide lots in the Creek
neighborhood. She believed that this was too wide.
Councilmember Woodburn thought that the design in TCAAP was inconsistent with the rest of
Arden Hills. It was his opinion that the density should be reconsidered. He would like to see the
Town Center area pushed in between the commercial and industrial areas towards Highway 10,
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION—APRIL 20, 2015 5
enlarging it slightly. He approved of increasing the density slightly with twinhomes, with the
remainder at the development being single family homes.
Mayor Grant discussed the differences between Fit Test Option 1 and Fit Test Option 2 in
relation to the Maxfield study. He stated that he could support smaller lot sizes in several areas of
TCAAP. However, he was not convinced that row homes would sell. He indicated that he could
support the twinhome concept. He wanted to see owner-occupied properties. His limit for
apartment units was 400.
Councilmember Holden asked if the park was included in the right-of-way acreage.
Community Development Director Hutmacher commented that the park was not included in
the 41.5 acres of right-of-way.
Councilmember McClung questioned what level of flexibility would be needed to get the TRC
to align with the Land Use Plan.
Mayor Grant commented that the Land Use Plan has yet to be approved by the Council and
could be revised or amended if necessary.
Councilmember Holden discussed the difference between the number of square feet within 110
foot wide residential lots versus 85 foot wide lots. She reviewed a proposed density for the Creek
neighborhood. She proposed the Creek have 10 lots 90' x 150', 40 lots at 85' x 140', 33 lots at
75' x 130 and 33 lots at 65' x 130'. She stated that this scenario closely resembled Option 2 of
the Fit Test.
Mayor Grant questioned how the Council could achieve this density within the Creek
neighborhood.
Community Development Director Hutmacher reported that she could take this direction from
Council to the City Attorney and other staff to create options. She stated that the NB-1 maximum
density could also be changed from 2.0 to 2.5 dwelling units per acre.
Mayor Grant could support a slight increase in the Creek and Hill neighborhoods and
recommended that the Town density be reduced.
Councilmember Woodburn believed that the Creek should be entirely single family larger
owner-occupied homes. He did not want the Council to have to worry about numerous rental
units within NB-1 and NB-2.
Councilmember Holden believed there needed to be a variety of housing types on TCAAP in
order to meet the needs of the market.
Mayor Grant brought the conversation back to flexibility. He supported the Creek having a
certain level of flexibility if purchased by a single developer so long as the City's overall vision
was being realized.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION—APRIL 20, 2015 6
Mayor Grant asked if Councilmember Holden's plan for the Creek was a reflection of Fit Test
Option 1 or Option 2.
Councilmember Holden stated that her plan did not align with either Fit Test but more closely
coordinated with the Land Use Plan. She explained that her numbers offered additional flexibility
to a future developer.
Councilmember McClung believed that the suggested flexibility would work for both the Hill
and Creek neighborhoods. However, the Town neighborhood would need different consideration.
Councilmember Woodburn stated that he would appreciate less density.
Councilmember Holden understood this concern, but wanted to see flexibility written into the
proposed neighborhoods through varying lots sizes in order to create a diverse housing stock.
Community Development Director Hutmacher summarized the Council's direction with regard
to the Creek neighborhood. It was noted that the number of lots would be changed. She believed
that the proposed numbers from Council would assist staff in more closely aligning the TRC with
the Land Use Plan.
Mayor Grant believed it would be difficult for staff to come to an exact number, but rather, he
wanted to see assurances that the Council's vision was being met.
Councilmember Woodburn stated that he did not want to see any NB-3 on TCAAP. He
supported 11,000 square foot lots on the site.
Councilmember McClung did not believe the Council had a clear vision at this time and that it
would be difficult for staff to establish a density number without clarifying this vision.
Mayor Grant understood there were differing opinions on the Council and that the vision for
TCAAP needed further clarification. However, the three distinct neighborhoods have not been
disputed, only the number of units and sizes of lots within each neighborhood. He thanked the
Council for their input and turned the discussion to the Hill neighborhood.
Councilmember McClung commented that his same concerns apply to the Hill neighborhood as
with the Creek.
Councilmember Holmes reported that the Land Use Plan calls for 268 total units in the Hill. She
thought that what the Council discussed with the densities in the Creek neighborhood could also
be applied to the Hill. She indicated that Fit Test Option 1 has 223 units and Fit Test Option 2 has
462 units. She was troubled by Option 2 as it would double the number of units within this
neighborhood. She supported this neighborhood more closely reflecting Option 1. She
questioned why the acreage in the Hill neighborhood decreased by four acres between Option 1
and Option 2.
Community Development Director Hutmacher explained that this was due to a reduction in the
size of the parks.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION—APRIL 20, 2015 7
Councilmember Holmes was in favor of not decreasing the park sizes.
Mayor Grant asked if staff completed a park space analysis and questioned if the adult softball
fields were necessary.
Public Works Director Maurer reported that the analysis was completed by staff and noted that
the original size of the adult softball complex was cut in half.
Community Development Director Hutmacher discussed the park amenities within Option I
and Option 2 of the Fit Test. She then reviewed the zoning requirements with regard to parks.
The Council further discussed the density within the NB-1 and NB-2 Zoning Districts.
Councilmember Holden supported staff adjusting the lot sizes within the Hill neighborhood to
reach the 268 units.
Mayor Grant was in favor of staff adjusting the density levels within the Hill to reflect the
proposed units within Option 1 of the Fit Test, which was closer to the Land Use Plan.
Community Development Director Hutmacher discussed how the Hill neighborhood would be
impacted if the NB-1 and NB-2 densities were adjusted to match the Creek.
Mayor Grant stated that he would rather the Council come up with a vision for the property than
having a magic number be achieved for density.
Councilmember McClung questioned what level of flexibility would be needed to have the TRC
be more closely aligned with the Land Use Plan. He believed the most important number would
be the buildable number of units.
Mayor Grant questioned what direction the Council wanted to provide staff with regard to the
Town neighborhood.
Councilmember Holden wanted to see senior housing within the Town neighborhood and
questioned what actions the Council had to take in order for this to occur.
Community Development Director Hutmacher explained that property could be zoned in a
certain manner to provide for senior housing.
Councilmember Holden stated that she liked the layout of Option 2 of the Fit Test for the Town.
She appreciated the vision provided through Option 2 and wanted to see the cul-de-sac removed.
She did not believe there was a strong need for rental apartments on TCAAP and suggested that
some proposed apartment buildings be turned into NT-1 or NT-2.
Public Works Director Maurer did not believe the City would be able to get the Land Use Plan
number of 1085 units within the Town given the level of infrastructure and parking that would be
required.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION—APRIL 20, 2015 8
Councilmember Holden was in favor of having somewhere between 680 to 700 units within the
Town, which would include a senior housing development.
Mayor Grant agreed that the City was trying to push a number that was too high. He supported
Councilmember Holden's recommendation. He asked if the Town had too much retail.
Councilmember Holden explained that Option 2 had first floor retail with second floor office.
Mayor Grant questioned how many units the Land Use Plan called for within the Town
neighborhood.
Community Development Director Hutmacher reported that the Land Use Plan calls for 680
apartment units which was consistent with Fit Test Option 1.
Councilmember Holden stated that she could support 500 apartment units.
Mayor Grant indicated that he would approve of 450 units as this more closely reflected the
recommendations within the Maxfield study.
Community Development Director Hutmacher discussed the residential products that would fit
well into the NT-1 and NT-2 Zoning Districts within the Town neighborhood.
Councilmember Holden wanted to see language drafted into the TRC that would not allow row
after row of townhouses.
Associate Planner Bachler reviewed the fagade composition requirements for townhomes within
the TRC.
Further discussion ensued regarding the proposed apartment buildings and townhomes within the
Town.
Mayor Grant supported staff s idea in pursuing manor homes and believed that these were a
suitable housing product.
Councilmember Holden inquired how many overall units should be in the Town. She stated that
between the Fit Test Options 1 and 2 and the Land Use Plan,this number ranges from 977 to 1085
units.
Mayor Grant stated that he could support 900 units in the Town.
Councilmember Holden suggested that the NT Zoning Districts allow for 6-10 units per acre.
Community Development Director Hutmacher indicated that the Council may want to raise
this to 6-12 units per acre. She reviewed how this density level would impact the Town.
2. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION—APRIL 20, 2015 9
None.
ADJOURN
Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council work session at 8:30 p.m.
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Amy Dietl David Grant
City Clerk Mayor