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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-20-23-WS-ARpEN_HILLS Approved: April 24, 2023 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MARCH 20, 2023 5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Grant called to order the City Council Work Session at 5:00 p.m. Present: Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Brenda Holden, Emily Rousseau, Tena Monson and Tom Fabel Absent: None Also present: City Administrator Dave Perrault, Public Works Director/City Engineer David Swearingen, Assistant Public Works Director Lucas Miller, Deputy Clerk Jolene Trauba, Northeast Youth and Family Services (NYFS) President/CEO Angela Lewis- Dmello and Ethical Leaders in Action (ELA) President Chad Weinstein 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL Gregg Larson, 3377 North Snelling Avenue, complimented the Council on broadcasting the work sessions and the addition of public comment. He also gave compliments to the new Council on proposed revisions to public inquiry language. He felt consideration of the revisions was long overdue and underlined that adoption of new language is a Council, not Mayoral, action and that striking the gag provision that prohibited public comment on litigation acknowledged there was never any legal justification. He felt the restraint on public speech for the last four years was an effort to deter criticism of the Council. Mr. Larson felt the Council norms of behavior were missing an item, and asked to add "Use of profanity, expletives or vulgar language at public meetings is offensive and unbecoming of an elected official." Mr. Larson felt a community survey could be an imprecise measure of community attitudes, that non -respondent bias affects the outcome and the results do not represent the overall population but only the views of a resident subset. Survey preparation requires great care to design the sampling procedure that addresses self-selection bias of respondents and develop questions that are neutral, not leading. He thought today's bench handout didn't appear to address those issues for the validity of the results. He thought the Council should give careful consideration as to how it proceeds on the issue. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 2 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None 3. PRESENTATION ITEMS A. NYFS Overview Northeast Youth and Family Services (NYFS) President/CEO Angela Lewis-Dmello gave a presentation regarding NYFS, including a history of the organization, locations, the NYFS mission, client statistics, the state of youth mental health in Minnesota, mental health and community service programs offered by NYFS, and potential plans for the future. Councilmember Holden asked if they only serve people in certain communities and how they were different from the other non -profits in the area. Ms. Lewis-Dmello said they will serve anyone that comes to them but the majority of their clients come from the municipalities around them. She stated they are the only non-profit mental health agency in the 15 municipalities that they contract with. NYFS' fee schedule slides down to $5.00 per session in order to reduce barriers to access. Mayor Grant said the New Brighton city administrator implied at the last mayors and manager's meeting that there were all kinds of organizations similar to NYFS in the area. Ms. Lewis-Dmello said there is another organization that provides diversion services in St. Anthony, and a number of organizations in downtown St. Paul and downtown Minneapolis, but the nearest non-profit mental health agency is in Fridley, and there are a couple of for -profit organizations. Councilmember Fabel asked about medical insurance reimbursement. Ms. Lewis-Dmello stated they do receive third party billing through insurance for the psychotherapists and a child mental health psychiatrist, but it is hard to get reimbursed for the full cost, plus fringe and overhead. Individuals with a high deductible can choose to use the sliding fee scale. Insurance contracts alone don't cover the costs of providing services so agencies subsidize their services through grants and additional funding. She noted the accelerated difficulty in the workforce with suppressed salaries in the industry. Councilmember Holden asked if the building was paid for and if there was anything on the third floor. Ms. Lewis-Dmello said there is one vacancy on the third floor. Councilmember Monson asked how they market themselves. Ms. Lewis-Dmello replied that rebranded and reworked their mission and vision statements, but they haven't done a lot of marketing of their services. They are working on being connected in the ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 3 mental health industry and the communities that they serve. They have started doing some advertising in local newspapers and on social media. Councilmember Monson asked how they are helping with building resiliency and coping skills. Ms. Lewis-Dmello said that is integrated into all of their programs. In the day program it is scheduled into the curriculum, and in the therapy services they have a big impact in the school districts they work with. They have long term relationships in three school districts and are working on adding a fourth. Councilmember Rousseau asked if they knew the percentage of clients that were referred from the schools or through the criminal justice system. Ms. Lewis-Dmello said they haven't had good tracking but they are revamping their demographic forms so they will have good data in about a year. Councilmember Fabel wondered if the diversion program takes kids that have actually been charged with crimes. Ms. Lewis-Dmello replied that they typically prefer to work with youth that are much earlier in the system, and they don't take anyone with an active, open case. They average between 95-98% non -recidivism. They work with the youth and their families. Mayor Grant asked if they have someone come to them and the parents have insurance, is the clinical psychologist not covered? Ms. Lewis-Dmello said it is, by way of the contracts with the insurance companies and they will take insurance if someone wants to pay with insurance. The reimbursement they receive per session for each client and the total number of sessions seen by a therapist in a week multiplied by the year won't cover the total cost of that therapist's salary and benefits. There is a gap that needs to be filled with contracts, grants and individual donors. They currently have a $650,000 cash shortfall and are using their reserve and working on their business model and renegotiating insurance contracts. They hope to be in much better shape by the end of their fiscal year. Mayor Grant thanked Ms. Lewis-Dmello for her presentation. B. Council Retreat Discussion Mayor Grant stated it was his goal to look at some of the more strategic things that the Council wanted to accomplish such as long-term goal setting. City Administrator Perrault said they had considered using Mr. Weinstein's firm in 2019 but the retreat didn't move forward. He was there to talk about the process and take feedback from the Council. Timing and location would also need to be discussed. Ethical Leaders in Action (ELA) President Chad Weinstein introduced himself and gave a brief history of his background. He stated that he is an ethicist with a broad approach to help leaders be their best. Their approach is to begin with the end in mind; to create conversations ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 4 among elected officials and between elected officials and senior staff that lead to mutual understanding. Councilmember Holden asked if the retreat could be one day instead of 1.5 days. Mr. Weinstein said they could be flexible but that he had proposed 1.5 days in anticipation of the retreat being fairly intense. Mr. Weinstein continued to describe the process of the retreat, and explain the pre and post tasks and scope, including interviewing the Council and attending a staff meeting. Councilmember Rousseau stated the community wants the Council to work together, and she was OK with 1.5 days. Councilmember Holden was in favor of the retreat but didn't want to discuss her personal life at the interviews, but only focus on the city. Mr. Weinstein said they would only be discussing values with respect to leading the city. They would have no icebreakers and no "kumbaya". He noted some of the other cities and organizations that he has worked with. Councilmember Monson supported a 1.5 day retreat and adjusting as needed, and had no preference as to where it would be held. Mayor Grant felt it shouldn't be at City Hall, but the Springhill Suites would be fine, or at the County. He thought they could potentially be done in one day. Councilmember Fabel expressed concerns about having breakout sessions and still being compliant with the open meeting laws. Mr. Weinstein stated that he'd never encountered an issue with that but he would be happy to check with the city attorney. Discussion ensued regarding the number of days and dates. It was tentatively decided a Saturday in May would work and staff would send a survey to confirm. C. Proposed Trails Discussion — Old Snelling Ave/Old Hwy 10 Trail (Lake Valentine Rd to Hwy 96) and Lake Johanna Blvd Trail (Cty Rd D to Old Snelling Ave) Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen stated there were two proposed trails that have had studies done and are ready to pursue grant and funding opportunities. The Old Snelling Ave/Old Highway 10 trail connects along Old Highway 10 from Lake Valentine Road to County Road 96. HR Green Updated a feasibility study in 2021. The Lake Johanna Boulevard trail runs between Old Snelling and County Rd D. Ramsey County is leading the concept design on that trail. The County is asking if the City would like to partner with them to pursue grant funding. The Metropolitan Council Regional Solicitation grant would be the most probable for both trails. Councilmember Holden asked if the Old Snelling trail was shovel ready. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 5 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it was not, the next step would be funding, which would lead into design, 95% plans would be considered shovel ready. The design estimate would usually be 12-15% of overall construction costs. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said Ramsey County's next step for the Lake Johanna Boulevard trail would be to get a letter of concurrence from the City saying we would support them going after the Regional Solicitation funding, which would be submitted this fall. If they get awarded funding we would decide if the City wanted to go forward with design, with anticipated construction in 2028. Ramsey County would lead the funding effort for the Lake Johanna Boulevard trail, and the City would lead for the Old Snelling trail, with possible support from Ramsey County. Councilmember Rousseau asked if both proposals could go in at the same time with the possibility that they would both get grants. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they could apply for both but he didn't know if that would be looked at as a positive or negative. Councilmember Holden felt State bonding would usually not give multiple grants. She suggested going with Old Highway 10 first, and they should also go to the legislature for bonding. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said at the State bonding level it is more appetizing to be shovel ready, but the feasibility studies provide enough information to go toward the Regional Solicitation grants. Councilmember Monson said people want trails and she thought they should strategically plan and have a financial approach. She wondered if they could find funding for both trails. Mayor Grant asked if HR Green thought they could get 100% funding. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they thought it was a possibility with the State bonding. Councilmember Holden discussed other things that people want and can't look at bonding of trails all by itself because there are other items like new water meters, the fire department building, sewer lining etc. so putting that in a bundle without looking at the whole picture is premature. Councilmember Fabel asked if either trail would be about a $2 million contribution from the City. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the Lake Johanna Boulevard trail would be, but the Old Highway 10 trail could be 80% covered with 20% paid for by the City for approximately $500,000. Councilmember Fabel wondered which route was currently safer, and if Highway 10 had a good shoulder. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 6 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said there is about a six to eight foot shoulder with a fog line. The shoulder is crumbling, but it will be freshly paved after this year. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen stated that if no funding was received on the Lake Johanna Boulevard trail, Ramsey County wouldn't go forward with the project. Councilmember Monson felt the amount for Old Highway 10 is low. She wondered if the County didn't get as much funding as they expect if the City still be committed to the remaining amount? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they could set an "up to" amount and he can discuss with Ramsey County. He noted that the Lake Johanna Trail is still in the concept design phase, and the numbers are more sound on the HR Green report for Old Snelling. Councilmember Fabel would like feedback from the PTRC to see what they feel is a higher priority. Councilmember Holden noted that a lot of students take Old Highway 10 to the high school, it also connects to regional trails. It has a higher speed limit and kids are driving and riding their bikes there, while Lake Johanna Boulevard has a lower speed limit. Councilmember Rousseau said the high school and college cross country teams run on Lake Johanna Boulevard so she is leaning toward that trail. Councilmember Holden said they jog on Old Highway 10 as well. Councilmember Monson thought they should pursue both trails with the Met Council and continue getting Old Highway 10 shovel ready. Mayor Grant asked if they want to get Old Highway 10 shovel ready, and they have until July 31 to make the decision about Lake Johanna. Councilmember Rousseau asked if there was a typical time that they would get an update from the Finance Director about the budget. City Administrator Perrault said they will get a quarterly budget year to date report, and they will start talking about the CIP in May or June with current year to date projections. Councilmember Holden suggested they also apply for Safe Routes to School grant. Councilmember Monson said she would support the Lake Johanna trail pending clarification from the County about how much money we are actually committing to, and would support getting final design on Old Snelling and trying for all funding options. Councilmember Holden wondered if the County is planning to submit a proposal for State bonding for the Lake Johanna trail. She also wondered if the PTRC was equally balanced as far as where they live in the city because they see different things depending on where they live. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 7 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen stated that if they desire to go forward for the design for Old Highway 10 he would need to know if Council would like to go to RFP for the consultant or have staff direct select. It would add six to eight weeks to the timeline if they went out for RFP. After discussion, Council agree to let staff direct select a consultant for the Old Highway 10 trail. Mayor Grant directed staff to direct select and have the item on the second meeting in April, and to get clarification from Ramsey County on funding. D. Assisted Hearing Technology City Administrator Perrault stated that staff had worked with NineNorth and Electronic Design to review the Chambers and found there is a hum in the room that they cannot identify. NineNorth feels the hum would likely interfere with a T-Coil system and they are no longer recommending that system, but proposing to go with a Wi-Fi system. There would be Wi-Fi equipment in the Council Chambers and users would need to have an app on their phone that would connect to their hearing aid. Or if someone had a T-Coil hearing aid they could wear the neck loop and pick up the audio. The hip packs are also still available for use. The Wi-Fi system is just under $9,000 for the system, versus $25,000 for the T-Coil system. Councilmember Fabel thought it would make sense to have a few people try the options out before they decide. City Administrator Perrault there is concern with the app having to be downloaded onto phones, and someone having to figure out how to install it and connect it to their hearing aids. The technology probably won't be widely available for about 10 years, and the people coming in to use assisted hearing technology will probably not have the app already on their phones. He felt the return on investment for Wi-Fi would be relatively low considering we already have the hip packs. Better signage could be made to make it more obvious that the hip packs are available. However, they are confident the hum would not be picked up on the Wi-Fi system. Councilmember Fabel said he could test what we currently have to see how well it works. He had a terrible hum when he put his hearing aid into T-Coil operation. Councilmember Rousseau felt it didn't seem like a good solution and they shouldn't move forward unless someone tried it out first. She thought we should keep the hip packs and make people more aware that they were available. Mayor Grant thought they should go forward and try to test it somewhere else. He felt they should have a solution beyond the hip pack. Councilmember Holden suggested larger signage for the hip packs until they figure out if anything else will work. Mayor Grant said they could have Councilmember Fabel turn on his T-Coil and they could turn off things in the Chambers until the hum stops. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 8 Councilmember Fabel said no option so far makes enough sense to spend the money on a different system. E. Climate Action Roadmap City Administrator Perrault said Council had requested that staff research what other cities were doing for Climate Change Action Plans or roadmaps. He reviewed what nearby cities were currently doing. He suggested an option could be to look at sustainable building policies as it is less intensive than a Climate Action Plan and could be done in-house. An element that was recently talked about at the Mayor/Administrator meeting was the idea of going to a single garbage hauler. Councilmember Rousseau stated that the PTRC was looking into the City's history with the Green Steps program. Councilmember Holden felt we would be higher than Step 2 now however former staff submitted many items at once. Councilmember Rousseau said the Green Steps program and a Climate Action Plan should be coordinated to be efficient. Councilmember Monson asked if we had thought about getting an intern from Green Corps. City Administrator Perrault responded that we did have someone from Green Corps once. Councilmember Monson liked the idea of a sustainable building policies guide as it was the sort of thing they would want to put on the master development agreement with TCAAP. She felt you couldn't control sustainability via zoning, so the real leverage would be to add it to the development agreement. Councilmember Holden said she would like to put this on hold until after the League of Minnesota Cities conference as they can have the opportunity to talk to people from other cities about what they are doing. Councilmember Monson said she had no problem with that. The reason she was asking for a roadmap is to decide where they'd like to focus. City Administrator Perrault thought the deadline for applying for a Green Corps intern may have passed. He said they were typically someone right out of school and a Climate Action Plan may be out of their skillset. As related to TCAAP, there are LEED requirements that could be put into place and the JDA could discuss those. Councilmember Holden thought they could do more by doing TCAAP separate from the rest of the city and put higher expectations on those homes. She felt if they found a good intern they could find the money to pay for it. Councilmember Monson suggested having someone to do research for the summer might be a good idea. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 9 Mayor Grant thought with the LMC meeting coming up and the Council goal setting in May it would line up fairly well time -wise. Councilmember Holden didn't really see the importance of Green Steps as it was just something the League of Minnesota Cities put together and most people haven't heard of it. F. Arden Hills Survey Discussion City Administrator Perrault stated that at the last Council meeting staff was directed to bring back a discussion about a possible survey of residents about a TCAAP or a city-wide survey. Staff recommends working with a professional company such as Morris Leatherman or Polco. He asked if the Council wanted staff to continue to research the idea, focus on TCAAP or city-wide, engage with a consultant or set a timeline. Councilmember Rousseau had provided a bench handout for their review. Councilmember Rousseau said a resident had spoken with her about making some data driven solutions around what the city valued and what residents were interested in. She thought it was something that could be done every couple of years and the Communications Coordinator could collect the data. They could have a small task force determine the questions. Councilmember Holden felt there should be a survey about TCAAP and another that was city- wide. She recommended using a professional service, and set the budget to conduct a survey every three to five years. Councilmember Rousseau thought it was challenging to have a survey show overall value for the community versus one person's opinion. Mayor Grant agreed with having 2 surveys, one for TCAAP and a separate one for the city. The first survey could be their baseline, then a few years later they could look back at the survey to see if they've moved in the right direction. He felt the TCAAP survey would need a lot of explanation and models, but open houses can become self -selective and not statistically representative of the whole community. Councilmember Fabel thought surveys weren't worthwhile, they cost a lot of money and you don't get reliable information. He said people his age don't pay attention to surveys. He felt the best survey was the election. He anticipated having a series of public meetings regarding TCAAP and the same people that would likely respond to a survey would be the same people that would likely attend the meetings. Councilmember Holden said there were other questions that could be asked in a survey that you don't get answers to from an election. Councilmember Monson asked when was the last time the City did a survey and what was the scope of that survey. Mayor Grant said it was 2016. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 10 City Administrator Perrault didn't recall them doing a city-wide survey at that time, but he could check on it. Councilmember Monson said she was concerned about the money and time it would take to do a survey. She thought asking people to complete two surveys was a hurdle. Councilmember Rousseau said most of the work on the handout was done by resident Andrew Albano and she hoped the survey could be done internally by the Communications Coordinator next year. City Administrator Perrault said if they were going to do it internally he would like to give staff a long runway to organize it, so next year would be appropriate. Mayor Grant felt a survey had value for such things as parks and rec, snowplowing, other city services, etc. If you use the same survey over a period of time you can see trends. He asked if they would like to talk more about it at the Council retreat in May. Councilmember Rousseau said she would. 4. INFORMATION ITEMS AGENDA ITEMS A. Landscaping Maintenance — West of TH-10 Mayor Grant said Ramsey County would be replacing some dead plantings on Highway 10 west of Highway 96. They are supposed to maintain that section but haven't done a good job. Could they agree that the County install the new plantings and the City maintain them. Council was in agreement. B. 2023 Public Works Maintenance Plan Councilmember Fabel wondered why there wasn't anything about pickleball in the plan. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen explained that they have been actively switching courts over to add pickleball courts but the maintenance was crack sealing, repainting and restriping. Last year pickleball courts were added to Hazelnut and Freeway Parks, and they will be added to Floral and Arden Manor Parks this year. The revised matrix that is in the Parks and Rec guide shows pickleball at the respective parks. Councilmember Monson said there was an article in the Pioneer Press about climate change affecting how much snow we may be getting in the future and that cities may have to add more sand and salt to their budgets. Councilmember Holden asked if they could get a list of which parks/trails the PTRC has adopted and what they should look for so they report it to the city on a regular basis. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 11 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said PTRC members have been asked to use the online request tracker (Report a Concern) to report issues. They have developed their own checklist to use when they go through the parks/trails. Councilmember Holden asked if staff had contacted MnDOT to see why they stopped cutting buckthorn on Highway 51 at the Arden Hills line. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he had played phone tag with someone last year but he can re-engage the conversation. Councilmember Holden suggested they send a formal letter. Mayor Grant noted that the City will repair mailboxes if they are physically hit with a plow, not just an ice chunk hitting a mailbox. Councilmember Holden said she would like to have a professional do the crack sealing on the courts instead of staff. C. Tree Management Plan Discussion After discussion the Council agreed to the following: • Contract with Rainbow Tree Care to provide EAB treatment to City ash trees by injection and a discount to residents to treat existing ash trees on private property. Contract with Rainbow Tree Care to provide EAB treatment to City ash trees by ground treatment. Contract with Rainbow Tree Care to provide two -lined chestnut -borer treatment to City oak trees. Add extra trees to the scope for Margolis Company, utilizing the remaining budget in the tree fund. Further discussion ensued regarding buddy trees being installed once there is additional money in the landscaping fund. D. Public Inquiry Language Update Council agreed to new language as shown in the memo: This is an opportunity for citizens to respectfully bring to the Council's attention any items which are relevant to the City. In addressing the Council, you must first state your name and address for the record. Comments shall be limited to three (3) minutes or less. Written documents may be distributed to the Council prior to the start of the meeting to allow a more timely presentation. Council will generally not respond at the same meeting where an issue is initially raised by a member of the public but the Council may refer the issue to staff for further research and possible report or action at a future Council meeting. Councilmember Holden noted litigation was not included because we are not presently in litigation. The litigation language was added on the advice of the League of Minnesota Cities, our attorneys and insurer. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MARCH 20, 2023 12 E. Council Norms of Behavior Discussion Mayor Grant noted the norms of behavior from 2016 tended to be more staff oriented than Council oriented. Councilmember Rousseau thought they should consider acknowledging accomplishments of staff, committees and businesses. Councilmember Holden explained there had been issues between businesses when some were acknowledged and others not. Mayor Grant said the League of Minnesota Cities offers a service on collaboration where they would bring in a facilitator who's focus is to get councils to understand procedures and work together effectively. There would be no cost to have them come work with the Council. After a short discussion staff was directed to contact the League regarding Collaboration Services, potentially before the Council retreat. F. Removal of Deed Restrictions Mayor Grant stated we are a torrents state but some home deeds in Arden Hills have been found to have offensive language and racial covenants. Because there are a limited number of Arden Hills' neighborhoods that have them, he suggested sending a letter to those property owners affected to let them know and that changing it is optional. City Administrator Perrault said some cities that have opted in with Just Deeds have passed a resolution, but he could work with them to facilitate how they could help the residents. Mayor Grant noted the areas that were affected and didn't know if they wanted to alert the whole city as having been identified when there were so few. Councilmember Rousseau suggested putting it in the newsletter and following up with a letter. Councilmember Fabel agreed and thought they should pass a resolution. Councilmember Holden thought they should contact the people affected directly with a letter as we know the addresses. Mayor Grant suggested putting it on social media but not in the newsletter. Councilmember Fabel noted that since the fair housing act was passed this wording is of little legal consequence but some people will want to change it, and again suggested putting it in the newsletter. Mayor Grant said only about 5% of Arden Hills properties have been identified as having the language, and he would rather not alarm the rest of the city to think they need to look into it. Councilmember Fabel felt it was good for people to know about this as it relates to black history. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 13 Mayor Grant noted there could also be wording against Irish, Chinese, religious based etc, not just black people. Councilmember Rousseau thought they should make note in the newsletter that we've identified the issue in the community and we would be sending a letter to those impacted and how to address it. Councilmember Monson thought they could message it as an educational item and supported having it in the newsletter. It was decided there was no rush to publish the information and the new Communications Coordinator could write the article, followed up with a letter to residents. G. Arden Hills Resident Discount at Shoreview Community Center Councilmember Holden wondered how to approach Shoreview and what we have to barter with. Mayor Grant felt they question was are they using their facility to its capacity, and if they're not would they give Arden Hills residents a bit of a discount. Councilmember Holden said many residents have said they would to there more often if there was a discount. Mayor Grant directed staff to ask Shoreview about discounting fees at the Community Center for Arden Hills residents. H. AUAR Update Mayor Grant said the update was due in 2024, the last update was in 2019 and not all of the sections were updated at that time. Cost for those updates was $10,000 and it took three to five months to complete. If they update earlier it starts a new trigger for five years. He noted that if they update the AUAR now and something goes forward with TCAAP, the AUAR would be out of phase and questioned if they'd have to redo it again. Councilmember Holden thought it should be fully updated so parts that weren't updated last time were updated now. Councilmember Fabel said the reason they are making the request is so it enables them to do it cooperatively with the TCAAP process going forward. The AUAR presently says TCAAP can accommodate between 1,500 and 2,500 housing units. The Comprehensive Plan has a different number and the TCAAP code has a different number. So, if they looked at the issues in the AUAR it would give them more flexibility in the TCAAP planning. Councilmember Holden asked who was the "we" in this, when he talks about we she doesn't know who he's talking about. Councilmember Fabel stated it was the JDA Advisory Committee who thought it would be a good idea to have the AUAR done this year so they can make recommendations to the JDA ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 14 without having to say the AUAR didn't address certain things such as Highway 96 when it gets down to Lexington Avenue. Mayor Grant clarified that the first scenario relates to the City zoning and says 1,500 housing units or less. The second says what happens if you go to 1,501. When Council put in 2,500 it was never anticipated that was a number they would get to. City Administrator Perrault stated that Master Plan and planning guidelines came to about $500,000, and the AUAR portion cost $97,000. Councilmember Fabel felt there were some components of the AUAR that needed to be looked at and clarified to facilitate the planning process for TCAAP. Mayor Grant said the AUAR only looks at intersections going into or out of TCAAP. Councilmember Holden said it wouldn't include Highway 96, that would be a whole different scope outside the AUAR system. Mayor Grant explained that traffic implications on a road like Hamline Avenue wouldn't have been studied as part of the AUAR because the AUAR only looks at intersections going into and out of TCAAP. If they wanted to look at those impacts, that would be a whole new scope beyond the AUAR. Councilmember Fabel felt a study would have to be done to look at the traffic impact. City Administrator Perrault suggested that they ask for an option to look outside of TCAAP and if it can be addressed at the same time as the AUAR process. Councilmember Monson said she would love to have a traffic study done on Highway 96 but her question would be about funding — could the County pay for that because it's their road? City Administrator Perrault stated the Community Development Director for Ramsey County has already said they could ask the Public Works Department to look at traffic scenarios along Highway 96 and with Lexington Avenue. Councilmember Monson said she supported moving the AUAR updates up to 2023. She would like to include a Highway 96 traffic study to go through the County in coordination with the AUAR. Councilmember Holden said it took four months to update the AUAR last time, she thought it would take six to eight months to update the entire AUAR. Councilmember Fabel said the idea is that the AUAR be updated at the same time as TCAAP planning is going forward. Councilmember Holden asked if they were going to feed them information as to how to update the AUAR based on the information they give them? ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 15 Councilmember Fabel said the City Council and the County would be working side by side. He thought they should open up the AUAR update process now so that as planning goes forward on TCAAP the activities and communication would be coordinated. Councilmember Holden stated that she heard him say that they are going to go through the planning process then give them information from the planning process to update the AUAR based on that. So her question was are they going to update the AUAR or is the JDA planning to submit information to them with which to update the AUAR from? Councilmember Fabel said the processes would be going on at the same time and many of the same people would be involved in both, City staff would be involved in both, the City's representatives on the JDA and it would be ultimately approved by the City Council. They would be working side by side and beginning now so they could work on it as the JDA plan moves forward. Councilmember Holden again asked if it's an update or new information being provided for the AUAR. Mayor Grant said Council needs to understand the City and the County don't do the AUAR, it is done by a third party. Councilmember Fabel said the third party would be talking to staff. Mayor Grant felt Councilmember Holden was asking when they would start the process. Councilmember Holden stated they can't start the AUAR and halfway through have the JDA say they want to add or change this or that. They're either updating the AUAR or they're not. The people updating the AUAR aren't going to wait around for the JDA to decide what changes they're going to make. Mayor Grant stated you need input to do an AUAR and there is a third party involved. Councilmember Fabel wanted to give staff the go ahead to get started. City Administrator Perrault stated there are two scenarios, the 1,500 is based on current city zoning code, the 2,500 is based on the maximum developable scenario. He would postulate that as the JDA moves forward they could work in tandem with Kimley Horn on the updates but if the updates aren't exceeding the 2,500 scenario the inputs aren't really changing and would still fall within the existing AUAR. Mayor Grant didn't know what they would gain by starting early. His bigger concern was what if the acreage from commercial and residential changes? Then you have an AUAR that doesn't match up with what you're doing. They may still be within the development scenarios but the environmental impact would be different. There are elements within the AUAR that change depending on how much residential and commercial there is. Councilmember Fabel thought that maybe the AUAR needs to be adjusted to create more flexibility. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 20, 2023 16 Councilmember Monson wondered if Kimley Horn could give a proposal and explain the methods of updating an AUAR. Councilmember Holden asked why they would attend meetings when we just them the data. Mayor Grant felt it was a strange way of updating the AUAR, but directed staff to contact Kimley Horn to discuss and get their advice. I. Council Tracker Not discussed. 4. COUNCIL/STAFF COMMENTS Councilmember Holden said everyone should pick up their own water bottles and garbage when they leave the Council dais or table. She noted that while the work sessions were never broadcast before they were always available online. And the Rabata bookstore was adding on and would be having an opening event on April 4, she would forward the invitation when she received it. Councilmember Rousseau thanked staff. ADJOURN Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Work Session at 8:48 p.m. e e WTr�� a David Grant D uty City erk Mayor