HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-27-23-SWS
City of Arden Hills ▪1245 West Highway 96 ▪ Arden Hills Minnesota 55112
Phone 651.792.7800 ▪ Fax 651.634.5137 ▪ www.cityofardenhills.org
Request for Special City Council Work Session
A special meeting may be called by the Mayor or by any two Councilmembers.
Reason for meeting: 1. Public Inquiries/Informational
2. Response to Public Inquiries
3. Agenda Items
A. Mister Car Wash Concept Plan Discussion
B. MCES Private I&I Program
C. Meeting Schedule Feedback
D. 2024 Fee Schedule Discussion
E. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion
4. Optional Items
A. Council Tracker
5. Council/Staff Comments
Adjourn
Requested Date: 11/27/2023
Requested time: 5:30 pm
Open meeting X Closed meeting
Signature of person(s) making request:
11/22/2023
Mayor or Council Member Date
/ /
Council Member Date
-This section to be completed by City staff-
Date received: 11/22/2023
Date meeting to be held: 11/27/2023
Time of meeting: 5:30 pm
Location: City Hall
All necessary posting and notices have been completed.
11/22/2023
Signature of City Clerk Date
'It
,-ARQEN HILLS
Approved: January 8, 2024
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
NOVEMBER 27, 2023
5:30 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Grant called to order the City Council
Work Session at 5:30 p.m.
Present: Mayor David Grant; Councilmembers Brenda Holden, Tena Monson and
Tom Fabel
Absent: Emily Rousseau (excused)
Also present: City Administrator Dave Perrault, Public Works Director/City Engineer
David Swearingen, Community Development Director Jessica Jagoe, Assistant to the City
Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson, Mister Car Wash Senior Project Manager Chris
Campbell and Kimley-Horn Engineer Arik Lokensgard
1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL
Linda Swanson, 1124 Ingerson Road, said she'd given everyone a copy of the Star Tribune
article called "Crisis Grips Subsidized Housing in the Twin Cities". She stated that once the
developer builds and sells buildings, that person or entity will hire a management company that
the City has no control over. The article said the big non -profits are either in the process of or
considering selling some of their affordable housing because they can't sustain it. She quoted the
article "We know this trend will continue for at least the next several years and we simply cannot
sustain addition millions of losses." She felt it was alarming to see that if they down they will
look first to the City. She hoped they would do what they can to make sure there are clauses to
protect the City.
2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES
None.
3. AGENDA ITEMS
A. Mister Car Wash Concept Plan Discussion
Community Development Director Jagoe said this item was for the property at 3751 Lexington
which is the old Arby's site. The applicant is proposing to redevelop with an approximately 4,700
square foot conveyer type car wash building. This is a concept plan, if the applicants decide to
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — NOVEMBER 27, 2023 2
move forward with the project it would need to go through the Planning Commission and City
Council for the PUD Conditional Use Permit as well as possible flexibility for signs, and the site
plan review.
Mr. Campbell gave a brief overview of Mister Car Wash. He explained the site plan and how
customers would access the car wash. Most customers buy a monthly membership, and he
explained how that process works. They have 18 vacuum stalls, they are used for both employee
parking and customers, they will also have three employee parking stalls.
Mr. Campbell explained the building elevations and upgraded materials. He reviewed renderings
of a recent build in Eden Prairie, MN and for the Arden Hills site.
Mr. Campbell said he understood that 50% of the building would need to be brought up to the
setback line, unfortunately because of how the site is laid out the exit drive would terminate at the
median and prevent customers from being able to make a left turn back into the site to use the
vacuums or to patronize the businesses to the north. That is why they designed the site to allow
for a left turn and would be asking for a variance. They would also request a variance for the
commercial fagade transparency as the elevation along Lexington would have the tunnel exit and
the mechanical room which do not allow windows. Lastly, they would request a variance for
signage, code allows for 80 square feet and two auxiliary signs; they would be asking to increase
that.
Councilmember Fabel asked if they would include an air pump.
Mr. Campbell replied they don't typically do that but he could ask the operations team.
Councilmember Holden said the fagade facing Lexington doesn't provide good representation,
she wondered if the door had to be blue or if they could make it match more, and could they put
windows at a higher elevation. What else could they do to make it look nicer? She thought it
looked like the back of the building, not the front.
Mr. Campbell explained the rendering showed the door in blue but it was clear. He would talk
with the architects to see what they could do to make it look more welcoming.
Councilmember Holden wondered if they could cut down on the number of vacuum spots and
make parking stalls instead.
Mr. Campbell said by allowing the employee to park in the vacuum stall they get dual use from
it. If they take the vacuum out and make it employee only they lose the opportunity for the
customer.
Councilmember Holden asked how far the south elevation was from the property line, and was
there ample space for good landscaping.
Mr. Lokensgard said the canopies are at the 20-foot setback, they will have about 15 feet for
landscaping. Mister is proud of their landscaping; they like to use boulders and dry river beds etc.,
rather than just sod and trees.
Councilmember Holden inquired about the lighting.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — NOVEMBER 27, 2023 3
Mr. Campbell said other than building lighting they would have decorative lighting at the top of
the towers, and standard parking lot lighting to meet code.
Mr. Lokensgard added they haven't developed the photometric plan yet but they would do that
per code.
Councilmember Holden would want some enhanced lighting around the vacuums. She asked
what their plans were for between them and the alley.
Mr. Lokensgard said they would try to save as many of the mature trees that are there as
possible, and the wood fence that is there could also potentially be saved.
Mayor Grant thought they would have to talk about the amount of signage they would be
requesting. He asked if they had thought about electric charging stations.
Mr. Campbell said most people are only there for about 10 minutes with the exception of some
people vacuuming longer than that, so they didn't feel it was congruous with how their business
operates, but he can certainly ask.
Mayor Grant echoed Councilmember Holden's comments about landscaping. He asked about
then building material on the block below the word Mister, the area by the word Mister, and asked
if the brick was a veneer. He stated there was some concern about the veneer.
Mr. Campbell said they are opening 35 stores this year and between 40-50 next year, so they
build and develop a lot of stores. Because they are the owner/operator they care about the
longevity of their product. They invest up to $200,000 into each store annually in routine
maintenance and capital improvements.
Councilmember Monson asked what their timeline was.
Mr. Campbell said they would like to hit the next application date which would be the coming
Friday, to build in 2024. It would be a six to seven month build, possibly longer with the
demolition.
Councilmember Monson asked if we prohibit veneer.
Community Development Director Jagoe responded it is not prohibited, but it is considered a
flexibility from the full brick standard.
Councilmember Monson said with EV charging the primary goal is to charge while you go do
something, so unless there was a shop or something that would be attractive for someone to
charge there, she wouldn't expect their business model to be a good location. She wasn't
concerned about lighting or parking.
Councilmember Monson asked what was going on with the Pace location next door.
Community Development Director Jagoe said there is a land use application that will go to the
Planning Commission on December 6 for a different car wash company to redevelop the Pace site.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — NOVEMBER 27, 2023 4
That company is proposing an exterior conveyer type tunnel car wash and an interior conveyer
type car wash building.
Councilmember Holden thought they have always said the veneer had to have mortar.
Community Development Director Jagoe stated there isn't standards for veneer in the City
Code, but that could have been one of the requirements with flexibility granted for other projects.
Councilmember Holden asked if there was a monument sign on the property.
Mr. Campbell said there is one for the businesses to the north, they would have a monument sign
but it would be to code. He has told his team he'd like to get rid of the signage on the west tower.
Councilmember Monson asked if there was a car wash approved at the neighboring property
would that change their thoughts?
Mr. Campbell said that was hard to answer until that takes place. At the very least they would
likely move forward toward approvals, he didn't know whether they would actually choose to
move forward. They looked at the Pace sight but for various reasons they chose to not move
forward with that location.
Mayor Grant thought they could fairly easily move their trash enclosure to make an additional
parking space. He wondered if they would actually use 18 vacuums.
Mr. Campbell said a typical store would have 24 vacuums. There is a convenience factor for
members, if they limit the number so much that every time a customer comes the vacuums are all
in use, they get frustrated, cancel their membership and go somewhere else. The vacuums are free
an operating all the time for members. They don't police it, and they recognize there are non-
members that will use the vacuums. The hope is they see the value of the overall business and get
a membership.
Mayor Grant thanked them for their presentation.
B. MCES Private I/I Program
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen stated that Council requested that Staff
research this program. Met Council was awarded $1.5 million for a pilot program to spread out to
all the eligible cities. There are currently 81 eligible cities. He assumes it will be a popular
program. This is an avenue for the City to promote owners taking care of I/I on private property.
The program would reimburse a private property owner 50% of the construction costs up to
$5,000. The City would apply to Met Council with an estimated amount of money they assume
they would need. The funds that are awarded to the City are then distributed to the property
owners that utilize the program. The recommended procedure is to get the invoice from the
contractor and paying the contractor from the funds. Community outreach and communication
will be required as part of the application. Met Council is seeing an average lining cost per sewer
service of $8,000. City staff recommends applying for $80,000.
Councilmember Holden asked if they had to do lining or if they could rebuild the whole thing.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — NOVEMBER 27, 2023 5
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they can replace.
Councilmember Holden asked if it had to be 50% or could the city say 25%?
City Administrator Perrault said they can clarify that, but the documents say "shall be" 50%.
Councilmember Fabel wondered if the award from Met Council would be proportionate to the
size of the community.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen thought if the program moved on to future
years they might look at applying something like that, but for now as a pilot program they're
gathering interest and distributing it equally.
Councilmember Fabel asked if they could put a cap on the assessed value of the home that
would be eligible for a grant.
Mayor Grant thought Met Council may have guidelines.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it would be up to the City to determine
how they want to define the program. He didn't think we would get a large amount of money for
the pilot program, so the amount of homes might be less than 10.
Mayor Grant thought it might be best to see how much money they get before they start defining
the program.
Councilmember Holden stated the main thing is to lower the Fl. So, if they are a small city but
have high PI they may give you more grant money than a larger city that doesn't have the same
conditions. She said there are several homes that share sewer lines, could they create a second line
and have it covered, or do they just have to fix the broken one.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it would depend on how the shared
lines are connected. There would have to be coordination between the two property owners and
how they'd like to handle it. If they are split at the main there is a way for them to do the lining
and cut out the other persons property; the property owner that is pursuing it would have their line
lined. There's a way to coordinate it but it would have to be done between the private property
owners and the contractor.
Councilmember Monson thought they should apply for the program.
Mayor Grant felt Met Council just wanted to give the money and staff would do the
administrative duties.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he was hearing Council say was to
apply for the program and if there is an equity component after applying to bring that back for
discussion of terms.
Councilmember Fabel thought they should establish eligibility requirements early on.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — NOVEMBER 27, 2023 6
Mayor Grant said they would figure out the details later, and directed staff to move forward with
the application.
C. Meeting Schedule Feedback
City Administrator Perrault stated that for October and November they had cancelled the
normal work sessions and moved them before the regular Council meeting. In December they will
have a normal meeting on the second Monday of the month and a work session on the third
Monday, he was assuming the second regular meeting would be cancelled. Did Council want to
go back to the old schedule in 2024 or continue with something like they have been doing?
Another idea was to have one regular Council meeting a month that would be the formal meeting
where they have public hearings, make decisions on New Business and take care of other public
business, and have a short work session prior to that meeting. They could have a work session on
the second Monday of the month that is similar to the current work session, start time of 5:00 pm
(or whatever Council decides) and is capped at three hours, and a standing in -formal meeting
where Council approves items only applicable to the consent calendar. If they make a permanent
change they would also have to update the City Code.
Councilmember Holden thought cancelling the second meeting in January, February and March
worked really well.
City Administrator Perrault explained that if Council wanted to repeat what they did this year,
on the second Monday of the month the Council meeting would start at 7:00, the work session
would be the third Monday of the month starting at 5:00, with nothing on the fourth Monday of
the month.
Councilmember Fabel supported the idea of one less meeting a month that staff didn't have to
stay for.
Mayor Grant thought they could have a work session and Council meeting on the second
Monday of the month, and cancel the second meeting of the month in January through March. The
rest of the year they could continue like they'd been doing most recently.
City Administrator Perrault stated for clarification, the Mayor was proposing was to have one
night of the month for Council business January, February and March.
Councilmember Monson liked having a work session before a meeting, her concern was that
they don't have enough time in a work session, and she'd like to figure out a better spot for
TCAAP discussions. She suggested having a work session on the third week of January, February
and March.
Councilmember Holden wondered if there was still a backlog for work session items. They can
always recess the work session and go back to it after the regular meeting.
Mayor Grant noted they started with a huge list of work session topics in October and the list has
gotten shorter since then.
City Administrator Perrault said he would agree with that on near term topics, but there are
things like food trucks, climate action plan, ducks, and deer management.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — NOVEMBER 27, 2023 7
Councilmember Fabel agreed with the Mayor's proposal.
Councilmember Monson thought another topic would be car washes on Lexington, and what
they'd like to see on Lexington. They also need to talk about additional zoning at TCAAP. She
would advocate for a longer work session during those three months to get through some of the
big topics.
Mayor Grant asked staff to repeat the proposal on the table so everyone was clear.
City Administrator Perrault stated his understanding was January, February and March they
would have one Council meeting a month the second Monday of the month with a work session
prior to that starting at 5:00 pm. After March they would go to a work session prior to the
meetings. He proposed they make one change at a time and temporarily go for the first quarter and
they can bring back a code update if that's what they want to do for the rest of the year.
Councilmember Holden said she wanted to know what was going on as she had to make
arrangements. She agreed with the Mayor's plan and said they can always add an additional
special work session.
Mayor Grant explained that in the City Code it says they will meet on the second and fourth
Monday, so starting in April they'd still be meeting on those days. Council can always cancel
meetings. He thought having work sessions before the meeting works. He agreed with
Councilmember Holden, there are times that they have fairly short agendas and they can suspend
the work session and come back to it after the regular meeting.
Councilmember Monson asked about December.
Mayor Grant said traditionally they have cancelled the second meeting in December.
Councilmember Fabel said they would basically do in December what they are proposing for
January through March.
Councilmember Holden commented that if that works she was fine with it but she didn't want to
get back logged again.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen noted the he had two capital projects
scheduled for the December 18 work session, the 2024 PMP and south water tower repairs.
Councilmember Monson said they could leave that work session and cancel the second regular
meeting.
City Administrator Perrault said the closed executive session on December 11 would start at
6:15, and the work session on the 18t' would start at 5:00. They would have to do a Code
amendment to reflect the work sessions no longer being on the third Monday. They will also
cancel the second meeting of the month for the first quarter.
D. 2024 Fee Schedule Discussion
Mayor Grant asked if anyone had any questions or concerns about the Fee Schedule.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — NOVEMBER 27, 2023 8
Councilmember Monson said she would like the tobacco violation fees to hurt.
Councilmember Fabel asked what the escrow was used for.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen explained it depends on the permit. For the
right-of-way permit, if they are impacting anything in the right-of-way they estimate the amount
of work it would take to restore. They keep the escrow to make sure the contractor does the
restorations and they money is distributed back to them once the work is done.
Mayor Grant wanted to go back to Councilmember Monson's comment. He agreed but didn't
know what amount would hurt.
Councilmember Monson felt they needed to make the businesses care about the fee.
Councilmember Holden would like the first violation to be $1,000. But she didn't know if they
were legally allowed to do that.
Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Hanson said she could bring that back when
they bring the fee schedule forward along with information from other cities.
Councilmember Holden thought maybe the second violation could be $5,000.
Mayor Grant directed staff to bring back information regarding tobacco fees.
E. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion
Not discussed.
4. OPTIONAL ITEMS
A. Council Tracker
Not discussed.
5. COUNCIL/STAFF COMMENTS
None.
ADJOURN
Mayor Grant adjourned the Special City Council Work Session at 6:50 p.m.
e Trau IV- David Grant
Deputy City lerk Mayor