HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-13-23-R - A II PEN_HILLS
Approved: December 11, 2023
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS,MINNESOTA
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
NOVEMBER 13,2023
7:00 P.M. -ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor David Grant called to order the regular City
Council meeting at 7:00 p.m.
Present: Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Tom Fabel, Brenda Holden, Tena
Monson and Emily Rousseau
Absent: None
Also present: City Administrator Dave Perrault; Public Works Director/City Engineer
David Swearingen; Community Development Director Jessica Jagoe; City Attorneys Amy
Schmidt and Jack Brooksbank; and Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie
Hanson
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Councilmember Rousseau requested an item be added to the agenda, a motion to remove Mark
Kelliher from the PTRC.
Mayor Grant reported this would be New Business Item I IB.
Councilmember Holden asked if the Council could take action on this item without first
discussing it at a worksession.
Mayor Grant stated this was the action that was to be followed by the Council.
MOTION: Councilmember Holden moved and Mayor Grant seconded a motion to not
allow the item to consider removing PTRC member Mark Kelliher from the
PTRC be placed on the agenda.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 2
Councilmember Fabel stated he did not recall the Council had formally adopted or taken action
on how items are to be added to the agenda. He thought that the Council would be resolving this
matter at a future retreat through a formal policy.
Mayor Grant explained there was a policy in place that was followed by the Council earlier in
the year.
Councilmember Fabel did not believe this to be true because the Mayor had added a minor item
to an agenda recently.
Mayor Grant stated he did not recall adding an item to the agenda.
Councilmember Holden reported when she asked to add a TCAAP Discussion to the agenda in
February, March and April, she was told because the group did not have the information or
resources, this matter should be discussed at a worksession first. She believed this norm should
continue to be followed.
Mayor Grant recalled that Councilmember Monson recommended items should be brought to a
worksession before discussion at a regular meeting.
Councilmember Monson stated she believed this was a different situation. She explained what
was provided previously regarding the TCAAP topic had no clarification. She agreed with
Councilmember Fabel that no policy had been formalized regarding how items are to be brought
to an agenda or worksession meeting. She supported the Council holding the LMCIT meeting in
order to gain clarity. She indicated she was not the PTRC liaison and therefore she would defer
the recommendation on this item to Councilmember Rousseau.
Councilmember Holden indicated she was given a letter with vague information. She was not
clear who spoke to this individual and therefore she did not support this item being placed on the
agenda.
City Administrator Perrault asked what motion the Council was taking action on at this time.
Mayor Grant stated there were no motions yet. He explained he respected the reason why
Councilmember Rousseau wanted this item on the agenda. He commented generally when the
Council wants something on the agenda, it is placed on the agenda, subject to approval of the
Council. However, Councilmember Holden made a motion stating she was not in favor of doing
this and he seconded this motion. He reported the item was now under discussion.
Councilmember Fabel supported deferring to Councilmember Rousseau because she was the
liaison for the PTRC.
The motion to not allow this motion to be placed on the agenda failed 2-3
(Councilmembers Fabel,Monson and Rousseau opposed).
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 3
MOTION: Councilmember Rousseau moved and Councilmember Fabel seconded a
motion to add an item to the agenda (Item 11B) to consider a motion to
remove Mark Kelliher from the PTRC. The motion carried 3-2
(Councilmember Holden and Mayor Grant opposed).
MOTION: Councilmember Holden moved and Councilmember Monson seconded a
motion to approve the meeting agenda as amended. The motion carried (5-0).
2. TCAAP/RICE CREEK COMMONS UPDATE
City Administrator Perrault stated The JDA held their public engagement on November 1 st,
they estimated that around 200 people were in attendance. The consultant, Perkins and Will, was
present to have a preliminary discussion at the last JDA worksession on November 6th. A full
report with feedback will be given at the JDA's December meeting. The materials from the public
engagement event and the survey can be found on Rice Creek Commons.com if members of the
public still want to provide input. On November 2nd, the City Council met to discuss Rice Creek
Commons, and gave staff direction to move forward with amendments that would allow for a
density up to 1,960 housing units on the site, it is anticipated this will be discussed at the City's
Planning Commission meeting on December 6th, as part of this meeting there will be the
opportunity for public engagement via a public hearing. An unofficial notice was included in the
City's newsletter which should be in mailboxes soon. On November 6th the JDA met, in addition
to discussing the public engagement event, they also discussed a possible term sheet for approval
in December. The JDA also discussed the possibility of a Preliminary Development Agreement in
December. There is a planned advisory committee meeting this coming Thursday to discuss the
project status, a term sheet, and the preliminary development agreement, it is anticipated this
meeting will not have a public link for listening to the discussion.
Councilmember Monson stated there was a member of the public that had a number of questions
that she was looking to have answered. She explained the JDA gave direction to staff to answer
those questions. Once those answers are received from the JDA staff, she asked that City staff
review the remaining questions in order to provide this resident with answers to her questions.
Councilmember Holden asked if staff had the latest financials for how much this project would
cost the City.
City Administrator Perrault reported the most recent financials were from August.
Councilmember Holden indicated these numbers were out of date, and questioned when the City
would receive updated numbers.
City Administrator Perrault explained updates would be made regarding the housing types, but
he did not anticipate the revenue from the site would change too drastically from August.
Councilmember Holden commented she believed the numbers would change given the fact there
would be smaller houses, some without basements, commercial property has been removed, more
affordability has been added, and additional staffing would be required. She asked when the City
would be receiving updated financials.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 4
City Administrator Perrault stated after the November 16 JDA Advisory meeting, which Ehlers
would be attending, updates could be made to the financials.
Councilmember Holden expressed concern with the fact a term sheet would be considered by the
JDA prior to the City having any financial information. She asked if this would be updated before
the terms. She stated she did not know how much this was going to cost the City or how we
would pay for this. She asked how can we draw up terms before we know? She noted there seems
to be a lot of cost details that aren't known.
City Administrator Perrault indicated this was a good question. He explained the term sheet
was non-binding and direction given with the document would be high level. He reported the
language regarding finances would state the City intends to recoup its costs on infrastructure and
covering operational costs going forward. He stated the financials will not be dependent on the
term sheet and vice versa.
Mayor Grant stated whatever terms are drafted, they should not violate the agreement.
City Administrator Perrault reported this would the case.
Mayor Grant was in agreement with Councilmember Holden that the financials would change
given the changes that were made to density and zoning. He explained the Council directed staff
to begin making amendments for a Comp Plan Amendment. He commented further on how the
changes that were made by the JDA would impact the community. He stated he did not want to
see housing and warehousing mixed together, but rather wanted this development to be something
really special. He recommended the zoning be looked at further, noting the City may want more
office/mixed use while eliminating the warehousing. In addition, he stated the red area within
Rice Creek Commons was not to house anything "big box". He supported the Council holding
further discussions regarding the proposed zoning prior to any Comp Plan Amendment being
considered.
Councilmember Holden discussed how the office/mixed use space was originally put into
TCAAP to assist with creating jobs and these parcels have been removed.
Mayor Grant stated he was pleased with how Parcel A would be developing and that it would
bring jobs to the area. However, he indicated the City was missing an opportunity by not
discussing the red portion of Rice Creek Commons. He reported the original plans for this
development was to create 4,000 jobs. He commented on how the new plans would not come
close to this number.
Councilmember Holden asked if the Council was interested in reviewing the zoning map.
Councilmember Monson stated the Mayor's concern was having flex office space next to homes,
because this would allow for warehousing close to the housing.
Mayor Grant reported this space, the flex office space, was designed to be warehousing.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 5
Councilmember Monson indicated the second concern from the Mayor was that big box retail
would move into the red space.
Community Development Director Jagoe reported in the retail mixed use, office mixed use and
flex office,retail sales and service was an allowed use, which included big box retail.
Councilmember Monson questioned why big box was a concern for the City.
Mayor Grant stated he wanted to see the best and highest uses within this development, which
did not include big box or warehouses, especially consider the fact the project lost 32 acres of flex
office space.
Councilmember Monson requested the analysis for the 1,960 units include information on what
this project would look like and how the City could work to bring in smaller retail.
Community Development Director Jagoe stated if there are other changes, beyond going from
flex office to neighborhood residential district, this direction should be provided from the City
Council because this information would have to identified within the public hearing notice.
Councilmember Rousseau indicated she was in favor of having the smaller retail and mixed
uses. She reported if this model were followed, she wondered where a larger grocery store could
be located.
Councilmember Monson reported a lot of the big box retailers now offer groceries.
Councilmember Holden explained the Council fought for the small portion of red (retail) near
County Road 96 because the developer did not want retail in this area. She supported more retail
being placed in this area of the development in order to create more jobs.
Councilmember Fabel indicated what the Council was discussing had potential dire
consequences. He discussed how the flexibility within the current zoning plan would be
compromised if changes were made. He explained the governance of this property rests with the
JDA and the JDA supports a zoning plan with flexibility. He reported the JDA will continue to
work within this plan with the best interests in mind. He stated the only change that has been
made by the JDA was the decision that there should be more residential space/density. He
explained all of the other zoning decisions were to remain as is. He did not support the Council
getting involved in additional zoning modifications, other than those that were approved by the
JDA.
Mayor Grant thanked Councilmember Fabel for his comments. He reported the City did not give
up its zoning authority to the County or the JDA. He stated the City was still responsible for
zoning and if this map changes in any way, this would be a City initiated project that the Council
votes on and is brought to the Met Council for consideration. He clarified that the JDA cannot
make changes to the zoning within the City without the Council's consent. He asked if the
Council could make changes to the zoning map prior to this item going to the Met Council.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 6
Community Development Director Jagoe reported she would want to look at the future land use
designations under the Comp Plan to better understand how they are guided.
City Administrator Perrault indicated any changes made to the TRC would have to be approved
by Ramsey County.
Mayor Grant hoped Ramsey County was still interested in job creation within this development.
He feared how jobs within the development would be reduced given the proposed changes that
were being made to the zoning.
Councilmember Fabel pointed out that the changes that have been made pertain only to one
section and by reclassifying a portion of the property from commercial to residential, this may not
have an impact on the number of jobs with the development. He reported the people of Arden
Hills voted by a 60% margin to do this. He stated the density and jobs within this project will be
determined by the market as this project moves forward.
Councilmember Monson stated she thinks about zoning differently. She indicated she was not
opposed to how it was today. She explained she wanted to see the zoning being more inclusive,
versus exclusive. She did not support the City going down the path to exclude a specific use, but
she was not opposed to this either. She reported she could support further discussions on the
red/blue/light blue area. She stated she may be inclined to opening up this entire area for
reconsideration. She indicated she wanted the JDA to be onboard with the discussions the Council
was having.
Further discussion ensued regarding the process that would be followed to consider further zoning
changes.
Councilmember Holden stated this was our City and she believed the City has given the County
everything they wanted. She commented on how she hoped to see the highest and best uses within
this development. She encouraged the Council to see the value of making changes how versus
having to go back to the County. She understood Ramsey County was interested in getting their
money back, which would be done if the highest and best uses were put into this project versus
giant empty warehouses. She explained she had a problem hearing about the 60% vote. She stated
maybe people voted for Councilmember Fabel because he promised to be transparent or because
he promised to answer questions. She stated the Council would never know why people voted for
Councilmember Fabel,but she was tired of hearing about the vote.
Mayor Grant explained he did not believe residents voted for him for one single reason. Rather,
he worked to support many projects and initiatives within the community. He questioned why
Councilmember Fabel stated people voted for him because he expanded the number on TCAAP,
because this simply was not true. He indicated he did not want the Council to keep going back to
this. He stated he wanted this project to create jobs for the City and for it to something the City
could be proud of. He understood the County was interested in generating revenue and
commented on how Parcel A would create close to $10 million in revenue for Ramsey County. He
supported the Council further reviewing the zoning or allowed uses within the red area in order to
make this project something special.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 7
Councilmember Rousseau asked how many jobs were estimated previously for this
development.
Community Development Director Jagoe stated she did not recall there ever being a breakdown
of the number of jobs per zoning district. She reported the 32 acres of flex office space that would
be converted to residential would eliminate 300,000 square feet of commercial building space.
Councilmember Rousseau questioned when the City would learn more about the Primer Tracer
property.
Community Development Director Jagoe reported she was uncertain when the City would
receive information on this property.
Mayor Grant commented he did not recall that the number of jobs was broken down by parcel
type,but this development was originally projected to have 4,000 jobs.
Councilmember Monson recalled that the developer did not believe there was a whole lot of
interest in flex/office space, which meant at this time, the job impact would not be significant. She
explained she was open to further discussing the rezoning of the red/light blue/blue areas and
recommended this topic be on its own separate path.
Councilmember Holden recommended the developer be re-asked about warehouse/showroom
space.
Mayor Grant indicated he was not trying to hold up this project, but rather was interested in
having the highest and best uses on this site. He believed it would be a travesty for this project to
become just another housing development.
Council consensus was to direct staff to bring forward a future worksession discussion regarding
the rezoning of the red/light blue/blue areas within Rice Creek Commons.
3. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL
Linda Swanson, 1124 Ingerson Road, stated she was tired of Councilmember Fabel's
disrespectful antics. She discussed how Councilmember Fabel behaves when people he doesn't
like speaks, by rolling his eyes, looking at the clock, raising his arms and playing with paperwork.
She encouraged Councilmember Fabel to stop with the childish antics and to begin acting
respectfully. She requested the Council pass a policy that states Councilmembers are prohibited
from making any written, verbal and or motions/gestures that could in any way be disrespectful or
critical of a person speaking at a public meeting. She appreciated the way Councilmember
Monson had recognized the work the prior Council had done. She discussed how the slate has
given Ramsey County anything they wanted included increased unit numbers without any
hesitation or data. She urged the Council to treat people like people.
George Winiecki, 4175 Old Highway 10, stated his family has lived on his property for the past
113 years. He indicated he has lived in this community for the past 75 years and he has seen many
changes. He believed what the Council was proposing for the TCAAP property was mind
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 8
blowing. He encouraged the residents of Arden Hills to wake up and see what is being proposed.
He stated there was supposed to be 1,500 residential units with retail and commercial businesses.
He explained the plan how shows 1,500 apartments along 35W and 500 small 750 square foot
slab homes by County Road 96/Highway 10. He indicated these units would be rental with a high
level of subsidies. He was of the opinion someone higher up was pushing the buttons and there
was a hidden agenda that was moving forward. He anticipated his taxes would be going up in
order to cover the expenses for this project. He reported the population of Arden Hills would be
increasing by 60% or more, which would put a burden on roads, police, fire and schools. He
further discussed how the existing residents of Arden Hills would be adversely impacted by this
project and noted he was contemplating the sale of his family's land. He urged the residents of the
community to wake up, come before the Council and share what they think.
Mark Kelliher, 3712 Chatham Court, explained he was not planning on speaking during the
public forum, but given the manner in which Ms. Swanson spoke about disrespectful behavior he
felt compelled to speak. He stated he was an active member of the PTRC. He understood
Councilmember Rousseau has placed a special agenda item to have him eliminated from the
PTRC. He believed this action was extremely disrespectful. He explained a letter was drafted
about him on Saturday and now there was an urgency to remove him from the PTRC. He
understood the Council may not allow him to speak later on and he knew there was a 3-2 voting
system with the Council. He respectfully requested the Council allow him to speak at a Closed
Session versus publicly shaming him at an open meeting.
Donna Wiemann, 1406 Arden View Drive, stated she believed it was imperative for the Mayor
of Arden Hills to attend the JDA Advisory Committee meetings. She noted the topics discussed at
these meetings cover infrastructure, financing, construction standards, park sizes, future
maintenance and operating costs. She indicated the Mayor was the community's main leader and
brings a great deal of knowledge, experience and wisdom to the table. She believed it was wrong
and misguided for one Councilmember to say he cannot attend these meetings. She stated after
attending the open house she understood the 1,960 units within TCAAP may not be the final
number. She indicated the maximum number may go up by hundreds of units. She urged the City
Council to make the public aware of this fact.
Mayor Grant commented the JDA Advisory Committee meetings are closed. He was led to
believe he could attend at one point in time. However, after attempting to attend a meeting he
learned the door was closed and he was escorted out. He explained Councilmember Fabel was the
only Arden Hills Councilmember that served on this advisory committee. He asked if
Councilmember Fabel would be open to him attending these meetings.
Councilmember Fabel reported these meetings are open and televised.
City Administrator Perrault explained the JDA's direction at a previous meeting was to provide
Zoom links for the public to listen, barring sensitive conversations regarding development
agreements. He stated he did not anticipate there would be a Zoom link for the November 16 JDA
Advisory Committee meeting.
Mayor Grant explained he was not just a member of the public trying to attend these meetings,
rather he was the Mayor of the City.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 9
Councilmember Fabel stated each member of the Council has the same power. He indicated two
Councilmembers were allowed to serve on the JDA and not five. He reported a JDA Advisory
Committee group was created to work with staff. He noted these meetings were a staff function
and notes were taken for these meetings. He stated there was nothing the Mayor has which has
any superior authority to any other Councilmember as it pertains to the JDA or to decision making
for Rice Creek Commons.
Councilmember Monson called for a point of order.
Mayor Grant stated the Council was having a discussion.
Councilmember Monson indicated it has not been the practice of the Council to respond to the
public in real time.
Mayor Grant explained the Public Inquiries language states the Council may not respond. He
stated he was not opposed to the JDA itself, but clarified for the record the JDA Advisory
Committee meetings were not open to the public and the recordings were not kept.
City Administrator Perrault commented the meetings are streamed live, but they were not
recorded.
Mayor Grant indicated only two Councilmembers could attend these meetings, otherwise it
would become a public meeting.
Councilmember Holden clarified for the record all Councilmembers can attend JDA regular
meetings and JDA worksessions.
4. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES
None.
5. PUBLIC PRESENTATIONS
None.
6. STAFF COMMENTS
A. Transportation Update
Public Works Director Swearingen stated construction of the sidewalks along Lexington
Avenue continues this week, which would require intermittent lane closures. He reported the
restoration of the greenspaces would be completed next spring.
Public Works Director Swearingen explained the roundabout at County Road E and Old
Snelling was open to traffic in all directions and restoration of the greenspaces would be
completed next spring.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 10
Public Works Director Swearingen recommended Transportation Updates be suspended from
the agenda until construction work begins again next spring.
7. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. October 9, 2023, Special City Council Work Session
B. October 9, 2023, Regular City Council
C. October 23, 2023, Special City Council Work Session
D. October 23, 2023, Regular City Council
Mayor Grant stated corrections to the minutes have been provided to the City Clerk.
MOTION: Councilmember Holden moved and Councilmember Monson seconded a
motion to approve the October 9, 2023, Special City Council Work Session
meeting minutes as presented and the October 9, 2023, Regular City Council
meeting minutes, October 23, 2023, Special City Council Work Session
meeting minutes; and October 23, 2023, Regular City Council meeting
minutes as amended. The motion carried ff-
8. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Motion to Approve Consent Agenda Item - Claims and Payroll
B. Motion To Approve Resolution 2023-053 Authorizing Application For Recycling
SCORE Grant Funds From Ramsey County For 2024
C. Motion To Approve Resolution 2023-054 Approving Application For MnDOT
Metro Standalone Noise Barrier Program
D. Motion To Approve Resolution 2023-055 Appointment Of Planning Commission
Alternate Stephen Erler
E. Motion To Approve Resolution 2023-056 Accepting The Liability Coverage
Limits From The League Of Minnesota Cities Insurance Trust(LMCIT)
F. Motion To Accept Resignation Of Office Support Specialist
G. Motion To Approve Recruitment Of Permit Technician/Office Support Specialist
H. Motion To Approve An Extension Until June 19, 2024 For The Deadline On
Variance For Planning Case 22-022— 1861 Highway 96
1. Motion To Approve Cooperative Agreement With The City Of Roseville For
Construction Of Watermain On Hamline Avenue
J. Motion To Approve Springbrook Holding Company LLC Invoice For 2024
Software Maintenance Fees
MOTION: Councilmember Holden moved and Councilmember Monson seconded a
motion to approve the Consent Calendar as presented and to authorize
execution of all necessary documents contained therein. The motion carried
ff: Z
9. PULLED CONSENT ITEMS
None.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 11
10. PUBLIC HEARINGS
None.
11. NEW BUSINESS
A. Arden Hills City Code Relating To Tobacco Products
• Ordinance 2023-012 Amending Chapter 3, Section 350 of the Arden Hills
City Code Regarding Tobacco Products
• Authorization for Publication of Summary Ordinance 2023-012
Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Hanson stated the City Council previously
directed staff to work with the City Attorney to clarify language in City Code regarding the sale of
flavored tobacco products, specifically pertaining to synthetic nicotine products and prohibiting
their sale in the City. Staff reviewed the redlined draft proposed language amending Chapter 3,
Section 350 and the clean version which addresses synthetic nicotine and provides for other minor
housekeeping changes. Staff is requesting Council consider approval of Ordinance 2023-012 and
authorize staff to publish a Summary Ordinance. Please note City Attorney Jack Brooksbank will
be in attendance at this meeting for questions. In addition, a letter dated October 9, 2023, was
mailed to the six businesses that hold a tobacco license in Arden Hills (Brausen Holiday, Arden
Hills Tobacco, Cub Foods, Cub Discount Liquor, Holiday Stationstore and Walgreens). The letter
informed the licensees that the City Council would be considering this amendment at its
November 13, 2023 meeting and invited the businesses to provide comment. It was noted staff
heard back from one business owner stating this individual would be emailing the Council.
MOTION: Councilmember Holden moved and Councilmember Rousseau seconded a
motion to adopt Ordinance 2023-012 Amending Chapter 3, Section 350 of the
Arden Hills City Code Regarding Tobacco Products. The motion carried (5-
MOTION: Councilmember Holden moved and Councilmember Rousseau seconded a
motion to approve Authorization for Publication Summary of Summary
Ordinance 2023-012. The motion carried (5-0).
B. Motion to Consider the Removal of Mark Kelliher from the PTRC
City Administrator Perrault explained this item was brought forward by Councilmember
Rousseau. He reported City Code does allow for the Council to remove a sitting Committee or
Commission member by a simple majority vote.
Councilmember Holden questioned if this matter could be discussed in Closed Session.
City Attorney Schmidt advised it was not possible for this to be discussed in Closed Session
tonight. She stated per City Code, the only requirement was for the Council to take a vote to
remove a member.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 12
Councilmember Rousseau requested the Council consider a motion to remove Mark Kelliher
from the PTRC. She apologized for not getting information on this item out to the Council sooner.
She also apologized to Mr. Kelliher given the timing of this action. She explained serving on the
PTRC should be a rewarding, volunteer opportunity for members of the community with a
respectful and collaborative environment where all members can speak. With this in mind, she
supported the Council removing Mr. Kelliher from the PTRC. She suggested staff be tasked with
creating a code of conduct for Committee and Commission members.
Councilmember Holden asked Councilmember Rousseau as the Councilmember Liaison to the
PTRC, when she spoke with Mr. Kelliher, what was the topic and how did she address this issue.
Councilmember Rousseau stated she had not spoken to Mr. Kelliher. Rather, she asked the City
Administrator to reach out to Mr. Kelliher.
Councilmember Holden discussed a situation that occurred in the past on the PTRC and
commented on how the situation was handled discretely by the Council in order to not publicly
call this individual out. She questioned what the issues were with Mr. Kelliher.
City Administrator Perrault indicated this was a sensitive subject. He recommended that if
there was going to be a lengthy discussion on the matter that a closed meeting be scheduled. He
urged the Council to be cautious if they were going to take a vote at this meeting.
Councilmember Rousseau stated with committee members in tears, she would really like the
Council to take action on this item.
Councilmember Monson questioned if the letter had been made public.
City Attorney Schmidt stated given the fact staff wasn't clear if the Council was going to take
action or lay this matter over, the letter has not been made public. She reported the Council was
kind of in a gray area where Commission members are not subject to the personnel policy.
However, if the person was to be removed, this matter could be considered personnel or
equivalent to personnel data and staff was recommended the information not be made public.
Councilmember Monson believed the allegation was serious and from the comments made by
Mr. Kelliher this evening she would be supporting the recommendation from Councilmember
Rousseau.
Councilmember Fabel commented as an attorney he was always concerned about potential
litigation. He stated he did not want this matter to become a matter of litigation. He explained he
had some sympathy for Mr. Kelliher when he made comments regarding a public shaming. He
asked if there was a sense of urgency to this matter or could this matter be held over for a closed
session.
Councilmember Rousseau discussed how the dynamic of the committee was beginning to
change and the Chair was going to resign at the next meeting. Her preference would be to keep as
many committee members as possible. She stated she could not speak to how long these members
would hang on if the matter were delayed.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 13
Mayor Grant stated he believed this was not something that the Council should take action on
from the dais. He understood the PTRC Chair wrote a letter, but he did not know how many
members from the PTRC were in agreement. In addition, the letter lacked specifics. He strongly
recommended action not be taken at this meeting, but that the matter be addressed in a closed
session. He indicated these were volunteer committees and this individual has put a great deal of
effort into some of the PTRC efforts for the benefit of the City. He stated he was struggling with
how to proceed given the fact he did not have specifics. He indicated the Council was being asked
to choose a side and he didn't like that either.
Councilmember Holden PP
explained the Chair has not approached the individual about his
p
behavior. She stated she reviewed the minutes for the last eight months and there was nothing in
there that indicates there were issues or problems. She reported she did not read anywhere that the
Chair was going to resign because someone was on the committee. She stated when she spoke to
Marie in June, Marie was thinking about resigning. She understood this was sensitive data, but
there was nothing in the note that detailed what occurred. She believed she could not vote yes or
no until she knew what the truth was.
City Attorney Schmidt pointed out that a person serving on a volunteer committee does not have
a property interest or liberty interest in the position. Rather, these individuals serve the good of the
community by appointment without debate by the City Council. She indicated there was no
evaluations done on these individuals on an annual basis. She stated the Council can appoint these
individuals and can unappoint these individuals.
Councilmember Monson commented on the serious nature of this request. She reported a letter
was sent from the Chair of the PTRC to the City Administrator that was brought to the City
Council. She stated this spoke to her regarding the issue with the behavior. She indicated there
were times when it was inappropriate or unsafe to direct somebody directly and that was why the
Council was addressing this matter. She stated she supported the Council liaisons
recommendation in this effort. She explained the PTRC would be meeting again tomorrow night
and if no action was taken, this would be an awful meeting. She questioned if the Council could
make a motion to request Mr. Kelliher to not attend the PTRC meeting tomorrow night, should
this item be held over.
City Attorney Schimdt stated there is no clear in between, which made it difficult for her to give
legal advice. She reported the Council appoints and the Council unappoints.
Councilmember Fabel indicated he has the highest level of respect and confidence in
Councilmember Rousseau. He appreciated her efforts to protect this Commission. He stated
despite what the City Attorney says about legal rights, the City Attorney is also aware that
frivolous law suits can come about from contentious situations. He indicated these law suits can
be costly to bodies, both politically, publicly and financially. He explained this situation has the
smell of a frivolous law suit. He stated he supported Councilmember Monson's suggestion to
request Mr. Kelliher to stay away from the PTRC until the Council has a chance to hold a closed
session. He reported this would give Mr. Kelliher the chance to speak and present his position in a
private capacity before the Council takes action.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 14
Councilmember Rousseau stated this seemed sensible to her. She reiterated that she would like
the Council to pursue a code of conduct for Commission and Committee members.
Councilmember Monson supported this recommendation.
Mayor Grant stated he had no indication that this was an action of the PTRC, but rather the
Chair has taken it upon herself to write what she wrote. He did not understand if the entire PTRC
has endorsed this. He also did not have enough information to whether or not a future meeting
would be awful. He supported the Council tabling this item until a time when it can be held in
closed session.
Councilmember Fabel suggested this item be addressed at the November 27 City Council
meeting.
Councilmember Rousseau reported she would not be in attendance at the November 27 Council
meeting.
Councilmember Monson supported this item being addressed at the December 11 City Council
meeting.
MOTION: Mayor Grant moved and Councilmember Holden seconded a motion to table
until the December 11, 2023 City Council meeting when the matter can be
addressed in closed session and requesting that Mark Kelliher not attend
PTRC meetings until this matter has been dispensed by the Council.
Mark Kelliher pledged to not attend a PTRC meeting until this item has been vetted privately.
The motion carried ff-
12. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
None.
13. COUNCIL COMMENTS
Councilmember Monson commented a lot has occurred with the JDA since the last Council
meeting. She appreciated the excitement around the clean energy opportunities within this project
and noted the Energy Advisory Committee would continue to work on these matters.
Councilmember Holden requested a recap on the flashlight pumpkin event.
Councilmember Holden asked that staff provide the Council with information on how the youth
commissioners were working. She questioned if staff had starting working on revising City Code
relating to commissioners and suggested this item be placed on a future worksession agenda.
City Administrator Perrault stated this item has not been placed on a future worksession
agenda.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 15
Councilmember Holden inquired if Mr. Kelliher would be invited to attend the closed session
meeting.
Mayor Grant supported Mr. Kelliher attending this hearing.
City Attorney Schmidt explained it would be the Council's discretion whether or not to invite
Mr. Kelliher to the closed session hearing.
Councilmember Monson stated she did not want Mr. Kelliher in attendance at the Closed
Session meeting.
Councilmember Fabel supported having Mr. Kelliher in attendance.
Mayor Grant concurred.
Councilmember Rousseau stated she would like to have a conversation with the PTRC to see
what their thoughts were about attending the closed session or if they were concerned about
retaliation. She indicated she did not support having Mr. Kelliher at the closed session meeting.
Councilmember Holden supported having Mr. Kelliher at the closed session meeting, in order to
hear both sides of the story.
City Attorney Schmidt commented the conversation that will happen in the Closed Session will
be for the Council to exercise their authority to remove this individual or not. She explained
having testimony is not the procedure that would typically occur. She did not recommend
testimony from PTRC members be offered at the closed session meeting.
Mayor Grant stated there are members of the public who believe that he was Al Checchi's
finance person at Northwest Airlines for mergers and acquisitions. He clarified that he did work
for Northwest Airlines in IT,but he was not the finance person for Al Checci.
Mayor Grant explained niche.com was a company that did research on colleges and universities.
He reported after Money Magazine folded, niche.com has taken over the rating of cities. He
indicated Arden Hills was rated A+ and was the third best suburb to buy a house in in the
Minneapolis/St. Paul area. He stated Arden Hills rates an A for public schools and an A+ for
families. He provided further comment on the ratings the City received and stated he was proud of
the fact Arden Hills received a B+ for diversity and an A for housing. He commended staff and
past Council's for their efforts.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL—NOVEMBER 13, 2023 16
ADJOURN
MOTION: Councilmember Holden moved and Councilmember Monson seconded a
motion to adjourn. The motion carried (5-0).
Mayor Grant adjourned the Regular City Council Meeting at 9:06 p.m.
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JuHanson David Grant
Cto Clerk Mayor