HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 09-30-2002
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~~!1ILLS
MEETING MINUTES
APPROVED
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MOXDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, 6:30 P.M.
CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS, 1245 WEST HIGHW A Y 96
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Dennis Probst called to order
the Special City Council meeting at 6:33 P'rn.
Present:
Mayor Dennis Probst, Council Members Beverly Aplikowski,
David Grant (6:35 p.rn.), and Lois Rern.
Absent:
Gregg Larson (with prior notification).
Also present: City Administrator, Joe Lynch; City Attorney, Jerry Filla; City
Engineer, Greg Brown; Director of Operations and Maintenance, Thomas
Moore; Director of Community Services, Aaron Parrish; City Planner, Peter
Hellegers.
KARTH LAKE PUMPING
Mayor Probst introduced the topic for this evening and indicated that the City
Administrator would give a brief summary/overview and there would be a
presentation of infonnation by the City Engineer, after which time the City
Counci 1 would take comments from those in attendance.
Administrator Lynch presented follow-up information as directed by the City
Council, and indicated that City Engineer Brown had information to present to the
Council about both a temporary and a permanent solution for Karth Lake.
City Engineer Brown presented information indicating the tributary area of Karth
Lake, the lake volume and other information ineluding, annual average
precipitation, 2002 year-to-date precipitation and 2002 estimated run-off above
nonnal. Brown indicated that he has had contact with the City of Shoreview and
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 30, 2002
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will continue to try to work with them to come up with an estimate of the
development within the City of Shoreview, that contributes to the Karth Lake
drainage. Brown indicated he has had contact with Ramsey County and has
received a favorable response from them on the possibility of financial support due
to the run-off from Lexington Avenue.
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Brown indicated that the DNR determined that the City could pump on a
temporary basis as soon as they could arrange to set up the pump and pipes for that
purpose. Brov,ll indicated a more permanent solution would have to be processed
through the DNR and would take approximately 60 days. Brown directed the
Council's attention to the infoTIllation contained in the packet on quotes received
from contractors [or the temporary pumping situation. The low bidder appeared to
be Northem Dewatering for $8,800. This was a system that essentially the City of
Arden Hills, Operations & Maintenance staff, would have to assemble and would
rent the pump to begin the draw down. The high bid included a system that was
completely set up by the contractor ineluding a pump. The long-term solution
estimated cost of $42,500, ineluded the purchase of a new pump and piping that
could be used by the City in other operational areas.
Council took public comments.
Anne Sorensen, 1152 Amble Drive: Asked if there will be more drainage
coming into Karth Lake because of the Guidant development.
The Mayor indicated that Guidant would not impact Karth Lake as shov,ll in
the sub watershed area drawn by the City Engineer.
Charles Amble, 1211 Amble Road: Inquired why we are looking at
pumping down Karth Lake at this point.
The Mayor responded that something unusual is happening and there is a
loss of lake shore as well as landscaping and vegetation. The City has been
approached by some of the residents about saving lakeshore and vegetation.
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Gary Gerding. 1236 Karth Lake Drive: Indicated he is speaking for several
residents when he stated they agree with the approach for a temporary and
permanent solution [or drawing down Karth Lake, but urged the Council to
seek funding from others, as well as from sUTI'OLmding property ov,llers.
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ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 30, 2002
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Albert Nienaber, 1160 Amble Drive: Indicated that trecs have been
threatened and enjoyment of the lake is less. Inquired about how long it
would take to put a pelmanent solution into place.
City Engineer Brown indicated putting together a package to bid and going
through the DNR process (which would take approximately 60 days) means
the pennanent solution would probably not be put into place until
approximately spring of2003. Brown also indicated that is why the Council
asked staff to pursue a temporary pumping situation.
Bruce Johnson, 1220 Karth Lake Drive: Indicated he is in favor of pumping
the lake down and doing so as quickly as possible to save landscaping and
vegetation.
Ron Lindmark, 1140 Amble Drive: Inquired about the responsibility of
industrial or commercial properties namely, Fair Isaac's, and their
contribution to the storm water run-off to Karth Lake.
Mayor Probst responded that best management practices currently allow
property owncrs, whether residential, commercial or industrial, to have
storm water run-off rates no greater than previously existing conditions
whcn developing or redeveloping. While the rates may remain the same for
Karth Lake, there is not natural outlct, thus it continues to fill up.
Eleanor Hartmark. 1280 West Highwav 96: Indicated that she has been a
life long resident and has seen the level of the lake rise and fall depending
on the weather. She indicated a concern with pumping. She wanted to be
careful that the City did not drain the lake or bring it to a level that it would
not be able to be restored. She indicated that she is not in favor of a
permanent solution.
Mayor Probst responded that the City would approach the pumping of the
lake by drawing the lake dO'NTI to a level of 934'. This was indicated as onc
of the previous high points of the lake but not to the normal water level of
the lakc, which was 929' as detennincd by the DNR.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 30, 2002
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Linda Hansohn, 1124 Amble Drive: Indicated she has a sct of two retention
walls both approximately four feet high. The first retaining wall is 17
inches under water and the water is currently approaching the second
retention wall. She urged the Council to take action as quickly as possible
to bring the lake level down.
Stan Harpstead, 1277 Nursery Hill Lane: Indicated he has lost trees but
does not believe there are any properties in danger of getting wet basements.
He urged the Council to look at the assessments to inelude Fair Isaac's, or
other commercial and industrial properties that contribute to storm water
run-off to Karth Lake. He is in favor of both a temporary and permanent
solution.
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Steve Marino. 1120 Amble Drive: Indicated he is in favor of a moderate
solution. While he is sympathetic to lost vegetation and landscaping, he
urged the Council not to draw the lake down too far that it presented
problems with vegetation not being able to return. He thought that the
highcr lake level was also helping to deal w'ith some of the trash issue. He
wasn't seeing as much trash around his property or around the lake.
Ron HagkLlll, 1289 Karth Lake Circle: Inquired of Council what the
problcm is they are trying to solve. He indicatcd that when the lake was
pumped in 1984, there was a significant fish kill which presented its own
problern. He urged the Council to approach the solution with caution and
common sense.
Elaine Francis, 1165 Amble Drive: Indicated that the lakc seems to be the
highest it has been in many years. She considered the lake to be a sick lake.
There is green algae on the lake and it didn't seem to flow as it did before.
She urged the Council to consider a short and long-term solution. She also
indicated she agreed that Fair Isaac needs to be considered as a partner in
the solution to the problem.
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Di ck Flick 1301 Karth Lake Cirele: Indicated that he had an original dock
and the water is cUlTently two feet higher than his original dock Cun'ently
he believes the lake level is eight feet above the level of his original doclc
He indicated there is no good engineering data on how to control the level
of the lake. Therc can be quite a fluctuation in it depending on weather. He
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SEPTEMBER 30, 2002
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also inquired about the impact that commercial and industrial development
has had on the lake. He inquired as to why the lake continues to rise and
what other properties are contributing to the lake.
Shih Paul Yen, 1116 Amble Drive: Indicated he movcd into his house in
1990 and as a 12 year resident of the lake area, he would like to have the
City develop a permanent solution. He inquired about what level the lake is
suppose to be. He also questioned some of the GIS data which did not show
some of the homes around Karth Lake and qucstioned whether the data was
right. He also claimed the residents surrounding the lake arc victims of a
problem that has been created outside of their neighborhood.
Eleanor Hartmark, 1280 West Highway 96: Conunented about the earlier
concerns regarding trash. She indicated she cUlTently has a floating dock on
her lakeshore property and some of the responsibility for the elean up is the
lakeshore owners themselves.
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Tom Heideman, 1142 Amble Drive: Indicated there is a lot of blame to go
around, both on the City and the lakcshore property owners, as we]] as the
commercial and industrial properties. He urgcd the City Council to proceed
with both a short-tern1 and long-term solution, but cautioned against
lowering thc water level to a point that would do more harm than good. He
also urgcd the Council to look at the assessments. He was also wondering if
the City would be able to do anything about aeration of the lake. He
understood that this was a different issue but wanted to raise it.
Art Bourgeois, 1168 Amble Drive: Inquired about why thc houses on the
left side of the map were not filled in.
City Engineer Brown indicated that those homes on the left side of the lake
were not filled in because this was a map that bad been used for the
pavement management improvement meeting and they were not included
for the assessment of the roads that were going to be millcd and overlayed.
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The Mayor indicated that the City Council has not decided on the permanent
solution yet. A public hearing would have to be held and a dctermination would
have to be made on the area to bc included. The costs would have to be better
determined and a decision made on who will participate. The Mayor indicated
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
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that the City will come back to the residents with more information as they
proceed with the pem1anent solution on the potential for assessment. He reiterated
that the expcctation of the City is that thc bcnefiting properties would pay half of
the cost of the permanent solution which was approximatcly $21,250 based on the
engineer's estimate of $42,500.
A resident inquired about the property that was shown that did not have a
structure or an address associated with it. The Mayor indicated that this is
the City park and the City would contribute based upon the value
determined and would pay an assessment much like a residential piece of
propcrty.
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A residcnt commented that storm drainage does come from outside the
Karth Lakc neighborhood and wondcred if the City will take that into
consideration. The Mayor indicatcd that the Council will direct staff to look
for all of those properties that contribute storm water and receive a bencfit
from the lowering of Karth Lake.
A resident expressed appreciation to the City Council for their willingncss
to listen and to invite the residents and affected properties in to a meeting,
and urged the City Council to proceed with a solution.
Council Member Aplikowski inquired how the right level of thc lake will be
determined. Based upon the information they received tonight, the Council has
heard that the ordinary high water mark is 929 feet, the City would pump down to
a level of 934 fcet. The current level ofthe lake is 938 feet. City Engineer Brown
responded that the City would work with the DNR to detem1ine the correct level
of the work and thcy would pump down to the level as detennined by the permit.
He did indicate there is no guarantee pumping would not need to be done again
and that no problems will be created by pumping down the lake.
Council Member Grant indicated that there is another scenario to be considered. If
there is heavy winter snowfall, and early spring rain, the lake could be
significantly impacted.
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Council Member Aplikowski agrecd with the statement that was raised earlier
about problem identification. She would like to see the problcm verbally
identified.