HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-27-23 JDAJoint Development Authority Worksession
Wednesday, September 27, 2023
Arden Hills City Council Chambers
Minutes
5:30 pm
Roll Call
Joint Development Authority present: Chair Jon Wicklund, Commissioner Nicole Frethem,
Commissioner Tom Fabel, Commissioner Tena Monson
Commissioner Victoria Reinhardt was absent.
Also present: Dave Perrault (Arden Hills); Jessica Jagoe (Arden Hills); Kari Collins (Ramsey
County)
Roll call taken.
Public Input
Linda Swanson, 1124 Ingerson Road, stated it was apparent that the JDA has deemed Bob Lux
as the TCAAP developer. She noted the previous City Council went through the required due
diligence of identify, reviewing and accepting Bob Lux as the developer. She believed the
current JDA has been saved a tremendous amount of time and effort. She discussed how this
JDA group was traveling on the back of the previous JDA, who did all of the work. She reported
this JDA has not done any due diligence in locating or reviewing any other developer other than
Bob Lux. She stated this JDA group has not saved the Council, nor the Arden Hills residents any
time. She wanted to make the public aware of the fact that this JDA has not done any of the
due diligence work.
Steve Erler, 1704 Chatham Avenue, thanked City staff, County staff and the JDA for all of their
efforts to put this meeting together. He commented on how there was a shortage of housing in
the entire metro area and that this has been well documented. He stated there was a
tremendous need for affordable housing options and noted Rice Creek Commons provides a
unique opportunity to add significantly to the housing stock in northern Ramsey County. He
discussed how housing affordability was tied to housing density. He urged the JDA to take on
the financial and political challenges that would come with higher density and to include as
much affordable and middle income units as possible.
Lynn Diaz, 1123 Ingerson Road, stated she was in favor of the JDA including as much affordable
housing, that was owner occupied, as possible within this development. She commented on
how ADU’s were becoming increasingly popular. She suggested smaller setbacks and side yards
be considered. She hoped the JDA would be considering some sort of community meeting
space within the development. She hoped the project would have senior housing, along with a
daycare and preschool.
Gregg Larson, 3377 North Snelling Avenue, commended the JDA for seeking a new density
housing number. He believed staff did a very good job providing visualizations for what density
would look like within this development and how it relates to existing neighborhoods in Arden
Hills. He stated the original AUAR that was completed in 2014 had two different development
scenarios, 1,500 units and 2,500 units. He noted the site could accommodate this range of
density. He stated the 2019 AUAR considered the same range and came to the same
conclusion. He reported the 1,460 units was a number that was pulled out of thin air and there
was no due diligence in choosing this number. He stated he appeared before the City Council
and requested documentation on why this number was chosen and no documentation was
provided to him. After repeated failures to compromise between the partners, the City, County
and developer have recognized that a new number was needed to move this development
forward. He hoped that new land uses, financial situations, environmental and transportation
considerations will guide consideration to one or more density scenarios that meets the needs
of all partners. He believed this development was a great opportunity that has waited far too
long.
Review Road Map
Director Collins reviewed the Road Map in detail with the JDA.
Commissioner Frethem asked if the community event was still slated for November 1. Director
Collins reported this was the case.
Visualizing Density Presentation
Director Perrault stated City and County staff have prepared a presentation to help visualize
housing density in a suburban setting. Housing density is often measured as units per acre, and
this presentation aims to demystify those numbers by showing images and examples of
communities nearby and their densities. This is intended to be a resource for informational
purposes. Staff reviewed slides to illustrate different densities using examples from
neighborhoods in Arden Hills and other nearby communities. It was noted these examples do
not reflect the design standards or architecture expected within Rice Creek Commons but
rather show land use and scale of development.
Ella Mitchell reviewed additional slides sharing examples of different suburban residential
developments and discussed how similar densities can look different within neighborhoods.
Chair Wicklund asked for comments or questions from the JDA.
Commissioner Frethem thanked staff for the detailed presentation.
Commissioner Monson agreed and thanked staff for providing visuals on the different types of
densities within a suburban landscape. She noted only the Town Center area would have the
look and feel of a high density residential development, while the remainder of the
development would be low density.
Commissioner Fabel asked if the multi-family housing would have underground parking or
surface parking. Ella Mitchell stated typically in an urban environment the parking was
underground while suburban developments include surface parking.
Alatus Development Scenario Presentation
Director Collins stated Alatus has prepared a presentation of proposed land uses changes that
would allow for more housing on the site.
Bob Lux, Alatus, introduced his team members to the JDA. He explained this was a complex
project and the density element was important for the JDA to consider in order to understand
what the neighborhoods would look like. He indicated he was primarily a high density
developer. He believed density was your friend for so many different reasons. He commented
on the cost for underground parking noting underground parking cost $35,000 to $40,000 per
stall. He reported his team would be presenting a concept for the development but noted he
would be looking for dialogue from the JDA. He reported some density within the development
was concentrated in the Town Center South and Southwest Corner. He reiterated that this was
only the beginning of the process.
Alex Duval, who works with Alatus, introduced himself to the JDA and described how Tom
Shaver and Todd Stutz would be contributing to the project. He reported a proposed increase
of 500 units has been recommended for the density. This would take the project from 1,460 to
1,960 units. He stated in preparation for this project there has been a demonstrated demand
for units in this region. He proposed to divide the additional 500 dwelling units into the
Southwest Neighborhood and Town Center South. He reviewed slides of what the increased
density could look like for each area of the development. The variety of housing proposed
within the development was further discussed. The affordability opportunities within the
development were addressed, noting he was hoping to find a balance on the site. He
commented on the land use modifications that would be required to support the density of
1,960 units.
Tom Shaver, Inland Development, commented on the dynamic changes that have occurred in
the commercial world since 2015.
Todd Stutz, Robert Thomas Homes, explained his focus would be on the Hill and the Creek
neighborhoods. He commented on the housing types that would be considered for this project
and stated he was looking forward to participating in this high quality development.
Chair Wicklund stated the JDA would need to have discussions surrounding density, land use,
affordability and other issues. He suggested the JDA begin this discussion with a focus on
density.
Commissioner Frethem reported less than 40 acres of the site would be six units per acre or
above. Mr. Duval reported this was the case.
Director Collins requested further comment on how many stories the buildings would be in
Town Center. Mr. Lux explained the north side of Town Center could have buildings 10 stories
high, which would allow for 100 units per acre. He stated the reality was that the ability to do
suburban high rises was non-existent right now due to construction costs. He indicated the
Town Center would be predominantly five to seven stories and the multi-family buildings in the
Southwest Neighborhood would be three stories.
Commissioner Monson requested further information regarding the Town Center South area.
Mr. Duval discussed the plans for the Town Center South.
Commissioner Fabel stated he would like to know how this density proposal compared with
other developments that were completed recently in the metro area. Mr. Lux stated the
uniqueness of TCAAP was the mix of housing unit types that could be constructed. He
commented on a project he was completing in Hopkins that included four buildings. He
reported there was a minor expansion of the density within the TCAAP development to the
Southwest Neighborhood. He described the benefits of clustering density in the Town Center in
order to make the area more walkable. Mr. Shaver commented on a development he was
working on in Minnetonka stating more density was being brought in for walkability purposes.
Mr. Stutz indicated he was seeing a trend towards smaller single family lots, which increased
the density for singly family residential developments. He discussed how affordability factors
worked into the equation for single family housing.
Commissioner Fabel inquired if this development was more or less dense than other
developments in the metro area. Mr. Lux stated this development was unique because it had all
housing types which made it difficult to compare to other developments in the metro area.
Commissioner Monson asked questions surrounding lot size and wondered if lot sizes would be
reduced to assist with affordability. Mr. Stutz commented on a development he was completing
in Lakeville that had only 35 foot wide lots. He discussed how a mixture of housing types, styles
and sizes were being proposed for this development.
Chair Wicklund requested the conversation shift to the land use modifications.
Commissioner Frethem stated she has heard that people do not want the development to be
too cookie cutter with everything the same. She indicated she appreciated the proposed plans
from the developer. She asked that the developers speak to further to the commercial market
and the reduced amount of flex commercial space. Mr. Shaver reported one of the limitations
on the California piece was the orientation of the spine road. He explained the thumb piece has
a broader depth which would assist in accommodating commercial industrial uses. He stated he
believed the development would benefit by shrinking the amount of flex space. He commented
the biggest change he was seeing in the commercial market over the past seven years was with
the corporate campus market.
Commissioner Monson requested comment on how adding density and traffic along the spine
road would impact the project. Mr. Shaver anticipated the traffic patterns and number of trips
would be downgraded by shifting to residential and away from commercial.
Commissioner Fabel asked what the traffic implications were for adding another 500 units to
the development. Mr. Lux did not believe there would be any traffic implications because traffic
would be widely disbursed due to the diversity of housing on the site.
Chair Wicklund requested the conversation now focus on affordability.
Commissioner Frethem questioned if any of the planned apartments would be condos with
opportunities for ownership. Mr. Lux stated a condo building was originally programmed for
the Town Center, but explained condos were required to be built out of concrete, which was
quite expensive. He noted a senior housing cooperative with 80 to 120 units was now being
proposed in the Town Center and these units would be owner occupied.
Commissioner Monson requested staff bring her information on the loss from ownership to
rental given the density change. She asked that the developers consider how to address this
loss. Mr. Lux commented on how there was a market for both owner occupied and for rent
units at this time.
Director Collins commented further on the affordability expectations for this development. She
stated the County would like to see 10% of the ownership units are built to accommodate a
downpayment assistance program and 20% of rental would be developed at 60% AMI or below.
She reported the County would be a partner that would be investing in the affordability.
Director Perrault asked if Alatus believed 20% of the rental units could be affordable. Mr. Lux
stated this was part of his plan for the project going forward.
Commissioner Monson inquired how Alatus would balance the type of units to ensure units
were not sitting vacant. Mr. Lux explained the affordable units would be full. He anticipated the
market rate units would also be full. He discussed how typical developments were assisted by
TIF which allowed him to build with attractive amenities for five or eight years out. He stated
this would be the challenge for this project, to build something that was forward thinking and
not just for today. He indicated he was supportive of the affordability requirements, but
wanted the numbers to work on the project to ensure it turns out really great.
Commissioner Fabel questioned if various levels of affordability would be considered. Mr. Lux
reported this was the case. He commented on the competitive tax programs (LIHTC) that were
in place to assist with constructing affordable units at 60% AMI or lower.
Commissioner Fabel asked if this development would include a LIHTC project. Mr. Lux
anticipated this development would have at least two LIHTC buildings.
Chair Wicklund requested the JDA now focus on any other comments or questions they have.
Commissioner Frethem requested comment on how the developer will assist with reaching the
proposed energy goals for this project.
Commissioner Monson stated the goal was to have this site all electric.
Mr. Lux commented he was very supportive of this initiative from the multi-family side. He
explained all of his buildings were heated and cooled through a VRF system. He indicated the
only natural gas he has been putting in buildings was for outdoor grills.
Mr. Stutz stated he cannot recall the last time he sold an electric range. He commented on how
the market was preparing for a shift to more electric appliances and solar panels. He reported
he was working to be net zero energy ready. He indicated another concern for him was that the
market was not there for electric furnaces.
Chair Wicklund commented for those serving on the Energy Advisory Committee, this may be a
tension point. He stated there would need to be more discussion around this in order to make
the residential housing work.
Commissioner Monson explained she understood the residential side of this development
would be the biggest challenge when it comes to being all electric. However, she believed a
home could be built without a gas stove. Mr. Duval stated Alatus was very keen to the energy
strategies for this development and was willing to dig deeper into the goals. He anticipated not
everybody was ready for this type of development, but he also did not want to create a
condition where opportunities were missed. He discussed how there was a lot of opportunities
around electric vehicles that could be addressed through this development and to seek funding.
Commissioner Monson indicated she was very practical when it came to this and she
understood people wanted gas stoves, but she was looking at a bigger picture issue when it
came to climate change.
Commissioner Frethem stated the real question is, are there enough folks that could support
this development being all electric and that would want to live in an energy forward
community.
Chair Wicklund explained the developer was hearing comments about energy and how this
could be handled. He stated there was a desire to make this development very, very unique,
especially in Minnesota. He asked if there were practical strategies and energy solutions that
should be understood or should be implemented at this stage in the game.
Director Collins stated in terms of timing, the market may not be ready today, but the project
required the installation of a spine road and mass grading. She commented on how it would be
a few years before vertical construction would begin. During this time, federal dollars could
flow into this project. She wondered how markets would continue to change in the next three
to five years.
Mr. Stutz commented it may be a hard sell to convince buyers to spend an additional $30,000+
more on a zero net home that was all electric. However, he anticipated there would be a
demographic that would be willing. He explained if this development were branded as an
energy leader, this may draw people to the community.
Mr. Duval stated finding a balance would be key. He encouraged the JDA to find promising
partners, such as Xcel, in order to pursue this initiative.
Commissioner Monson thanked Mr. Stutz for his comments. She indicated she does a lot of
high level policy work with top energy people from the State of Minnesota. She reported she
understood the ability to execute an all electric community was difficult given current human
behaviors. She asked if the developer would have any areas where there would be a mix of
retail with residential.
Mr. Shaver stated a retail node sits on the southeast portion of the site.
Chair Wicklund asked if the developers were seeing an increase in offices in homes.
Mr. Shaver stated working in place or working from home was on the rise. He discussed how
the collaborative spaces within multi-family developments were being utilized by tenants.
Mr. Stutz discussed how traffic patterns were changing and more residential home now had
separate offices.
Commissioner Fabel questioned if the construction and architectural standards needed to be
modified for this project.
Mr. Lux stated he did not see any need on the multi-family side.
Mr. Stutz stated he believed the current standards were fine.
Commissioner Fabel noted he recently worked on a Habitat for Humanity project in
Minneapolis. He asked if this type of project could be incorporated in this development.
Mr. Stutz reported he does not have experience with this organization.
Mr. Lux indicated he has not done a project with Habitat for Humanity but stated it would make
sense to work with them.
Further discussion ensued on how the current building standards may impact affordability of
the housing units within the development.
Director Perrault requested the developers provide the JDA with a list of building requirements
that make affordable units more difficult. Mr. Lux stated he would do this.
Commissioner Monson stated she wanted high quality homes, as well as affordable homes
within this development. She hoped the right balance could be struck.
Chair Wicklund asked that the JDA have a brief conversation on if there was consensus around
the proposed density of 1,960 units.
Commissioner Frethem stated she supported the project having 1,960 units. She noted even at
this number, the vast majority of the project would still remain low density.
Commissioner Monson questioned what would be dropped if the density were reduced to
1,780.
Mr. Lux anticipated some of the units in the flex area would be reduced.
Commissioner Monson requested Alatus provide examples for the 1,960 and 1,780 densities at
the open house.
Commissioner Fabel questioned if the developers believed the 1,960 number was the correct
density in order to create a successful development. Mr. Lux stated he believed this would be a
successful development at 1,780, 1,960 or 2,500. He was of the opinion the 1,960 number was
a good number and that the proposed layout works well on the site. He recommended the JDA
stick with 1,960 or go higher because there was a demand for housing.
Commissioner Fabel asked Mr. Lux to speak further on what he means when he said density is
your friend. Mr. Lux commented from an environmental standpoint and the enjoyment people
could have in their housing units, when higher density products are created more amenities can
be included. He explained this community was perfectly located and he believed the more
density the better.
Commissioner Monson stated when she thinks about a community and what people want
today, it includes amenities and transit options. She reported this development was not being
built for her but rather was being built for the next generation. She indicated this was attractive
to her and she understood some level of density would be necessary in order to bring in the
desired amenities/restaurants. Mr. Duval discussed how density led to a more efficient use of
infrastructure.
Chair Wicklund thanked Mr. Lux and his partners for being present at this meeting.
Ad m in istrative Director's Report
Director Collins reported the JDA would be meeting next on Monday, October 2 where the
group would be discussing Outlot A, the road map, density scenarios for the project, and the
community event scheduled for November 1.
Development Director's Report
Director Perrault stated he had no report.
Commissioner Updates
Commissioner Frethem stated Commissioner Reinhardt sent her regrets for not being able to
attend this meetinB.
Meeting adjourned at 7:23 pm.
Approved =_L".st-F).+LJ '?lolz-9Jon Wicklund, Chair Date
Commissioner Monson asked if there was a status update on the preliminary development
agreement. Director Collins reported this document was days away from being transmitted
back to Alatus. She explained this document would be between the JDA and the developer.
Adiournment