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HomeMy WebLinkAbout12-18-23-WS'It ,-ARZEN HILLS Approved: February 12, 2024 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION DECEMBER 18, 2023 5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Grant called to order the City Council Work Session at 5:00 p.m. Present: Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Brenda Holden, Emily Rousseau, Tena Monson and Tom Fabel Absent: None Also present: City Administrator Dave Perrault, Community Development Director Jessica Jagoe, Assistant Public Works Director Lucas Miller, Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson and TKDA Engineer Dan Nesler 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL None. 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None. 3. AGENDA ITEMS A. South Tower Improvements Project Discussion Assistant Public Works Director Miller explained that Dan Nesler, PE from TKDA would give a short presentation. Mr. Nesler stated that the improvements and repair to the South Tower were identified in the Capital Improvement Plan for 2024. An inspection in 2022 identified a few structural and painting items that need to be addressed. The City also completed the Risk and Resiliency study where some security improvements were recommended. He explained the structural repairs that were needed, possible materials for fencing, and types of gates they could consider. He reviewed the probable costs for repairs, security improvements, construction contingency and engineering costs with a total of $443,017. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 2 Councilmember Holden wondered how much of the engineering costs were associated with the security improvements. Mr. Nesler replied that it was probably half and half. He felt it was the right time to do this project before the coating completely fails, they can catch the spots they found now and get another ten to 15 years out of that paint. Mayor Grant asked if there were some components that staff wasn't recommending. Assistant Public Works Director Miller said there were a few items they would strongly recommend and some that were included in the resiliency study they could do without if we absolutely needed to. The primary items being recommended are perimeter fencing, pivot gate with a card reader, mechanical swing gate and an individual person gate. Secondary were bollards, card reader, an access hatch and alarms for the overhead bay doors. Councilmember Holden asked why they need three gates. Assistant Public Works Director Miller explained that one gate was a badge gate/swing gate so you could access the tower during snow events, the second gate was a pull through gate and the third was to access the area without a vehicle. The sliding gate and pedestrian gate wouldn't have to be badged, they could be chained and locked with a padlock. Mr. Nesler added there are two driveways into the site, that allow for large trucks and equipment to have an in/out. Assistant Public Works Director Miller said when they are clearing snow they can get through the primary gate with a badge, but in order to maneuver to clear the snow they need to pull through the secondary gate. Councilmember Holden asked what was on top of the eight -foot fence so people couldn't climb over it? Mr. Nesler said there isn't any razor wire so it's not going to stop anyone who really wants to climb over but it will be more secure. Councilmember Monson asked if the pivot gate cost was included the card reader. Mr. Nesler explained that you could go up to the pivot gate and push a button to make it work, but if you wanted to add a card reader that was an additional cost. Councilmember Monson stated the recommendation from staff would be $98,000 for security. Assistant Public Works Director Miller agreed and said those costs should be covered under the security grant, assuming they get it. Mr. Nesler added that in past years the grant has been very well used, there may be other communities in Ramsey County that will also apply for it. Councilmember Fabel asked what the cost for mobilization/demobilization entails. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 3 Mr. Nesler stated mobilization is the cost for the contractor to get to the site; get equipment there, get set up, insurance etc. Councilmember Fabel asked if the cost of the project would be paid from the water utility fees. City Administrator Perrault replied yes, it would. Councilmember Rousseau wondered if they go for the UASI grant would it be possible they can try for everything but if they don't get the grant or only get a portion of the money they could remove some of the more optional items? Mr. Nesler responded yes, they could set it up with a base bid and alternate add ons. Mayor Grant asked about the timing of the grant. Assistant Public Works Director Miller stated grant applications are accepted in late January/early February. Mr. Nesler added that the UASI grant is the only one coming up that would allow them to bid the project and get it ready for construction in 2024. The other funding options application dates have passed and if they waited to apply for them it would push the project out another year. Mayor Grant asked if that would be for the security or the security and repairs. Mr. Nesler said it would be for security, he thought everything could be applied for with the Small Cities grant, and the Drinking Water Revolving Loan Fund would be a low interest loan. There would be no guarantee of receiving either of those. Councilmember Holden felt they were adding a fence that really wasn't securing the water tower. Mr. Nesler said it would be more secure than it is today. Councilmember Holden said the water fund is good but they've been pushing hard for the last five years asking for State bonding for water projects so they could pay for water meters and there wasn't a significant increase in people's water bills when the million dollars came due. It's nice the water fund is good but there's a reason why they've been keeping it healthy. She asked when they would secure the second water tower — could they apply for a grant for both of them? Did they have to be doing construction on the other tower in order to put security on it? Could they ask for additional money to do the other water tower? Assistant Public Works Director Miller didn't know the timing on the other tower, he'd have to ask the Public Works Director. He thought adding the security was being done at a favorable time because they would already be working on the tower. Mr. Nesler added that he'd have to look at details on the security grant. Typically, the grants would require the money be spent within a certain amount of time, and some grants require plans to be submitted with the application. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 4 Councilmember Holden said she's always been interested in the security of the water towers because it just takes one person — and they aren't redundant in 100% of the city so they really need some security. Councilmember Monson said the memo talks about needing an additional $200,000, was that on top of the meter needs? City Administrator Perrault believed the water meters were programmed into what they were seeing, so this would be on top of the water meters. Councilmember Holden said that the Public Works Director met with water meter people and found out there was going to be a significant increase in parts costs. She didn't know if that was projected on the chart. City Administrator Perrault thought it should have been programmed into the CIP, so the water meter costs should be incorporated into what they are seeing in their packet. City Administrator Perrault asked if they pursued the grant was there any reason they couldn't include a fence for the other water tower at the same time, understanding the design hasn't been done. Assistant Public Works Director Miller thought they would have to do an inspection of the site to see if it was reasonable. Mr. Nesler added that on the face it would be doable but they would need to look into it more. Councilmember Monson liked the idea of at least assessing the other fence. She asked for an explanation of why they wanted a card reader versus a manual gate. Assistant Public Works Director Miller replied it was because being able to plow through the primary gate was an important function when they were doing snow operations; to be able to badge in at the bottom of the hill and get momentum to go into the actual site to plow the snow. The other two are for badging in like they would anywhere, like at Public Works and they are more secondary because you're out of your vehicle already. Councilmember Monson asked if why couldn't manually lift the gate and then get back into the snow plow. Assistant Public Works Director Miller stated the card reader was at the right of way and the gate is at the top of the hill. Mr. Nesler added another reason was that cell phone operators have access to the code so by adding a badge reader they can program in that for example, AT&T has access from 8:00-5:00 on a particular day, so Public Works employees don't have to meet them there. Councilmember Rousseau asked if they add the second water tower will that impact the timing, or put us at risk of not being able to get that grant request in in January. Mr. Nesler felt they could make a pretty quick assessment to say if it would be a lot of work or not, and decide if they have time. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION — DECEMBER 18, 2023 5 Councilmember Holden asked about the $3,500 cost for the person gate. Assistant Public Works Director Miller stated they just added a gate at the roundabout and that was just under $5,000 for a similar gate, so that price was in the same ballpark. Councilmember Monson would support the recommendation from staff and submitting a grant application for that amount. She would also agree with adding the second tower if it looks doable. Mayor Grant said they need to remember the repair costs have to go forward. Councilmember Holden wondered if they apply for all of the security items and they only get some of the money are they able to pick and choose what they want, or do they have to do a match or pay the overrun costs? Mr. Nesler said the grant would be X amount of money, he thought they would want receipts and documentation to prove what was paid for. Councilmember Holden asked if they ask for a grant that has a card reader but they don't put a card reader in will they be in trouble? If they don't give us the whole $114,000 and we ask for the card reader are we still required to put everything in? Mr. Nesler explained we would only be required to put in what they give us money for. If we ask for a fence and a card reader and they say just the card reader, we'd have to put the card reader in and the fence would be up to the City. That's why on the bid form they will list items as alternates. Mayor Grant stated he knew where Councilmembers Monson and Holden stood, and he was on board with it. Councilmember Rousseau said it sounded good to her, and it would be great to have the other water tower included. Councilmember Fabel was also on board. B. State of the City Update City Administrator Perrault explained the State of the City was planned for February 10, 2024, 10:00 a.m. at City Hall. Staff is looking for a preliminary idea of topics and who is presenting those topics. He reviewed the list of topics normally discussed and new topics that have been suggested. Staff will create a draft working with the identified presenter, the draft will come back to Council at the January work session. They may also want to discuss refreshments and Q&A. He noted that NineNorth will be there to record the meeting and it will be posted on the City website. Councilmember Rousseau asked for clarification of what would be included in Public Works Infrastructure Projects. City Administrator Perrault said they try to recap what was done in 2023 and projects coming up in the next year. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 6 Mayor Grant noted that the meeting generally lasts about an hour. They need to pick out topics that are of interest to residents, and some are topics they should cover like taxes and finance. Minor topics that wouldn't be of interest to the city as a whole and could be addressed at the meet and greet after the meeting. Councilmember Holden thought the fire department should be a separate category as it will be their biggest economic driver over the next five years. People need to understand that they can't hire enough volunteers anymore or part time people, they're hiring and going to build, and then talk about City finances as a whole. Mayor Grant thought there were some people that don't realize there is a fire station proposed. Discussion ensued regarding what items should be included in each category. Councilmember Holden thought water meters should be discussed. Councilmember Rousseau wanted to include an update about Committees and Commissions and NYFS. Councilmember Monson felt the core topics could be budget, Lake Johanna Fire, Public Works/PMP, Community Development, and Rice Creek Commons. Along with updates regarding NYFS, Committees and Commissions, cannabis. Water meters could be put under Public Works. Councilmember Holden thought they should talk about Committees and Commissions. Councilmember Rousseau said noting the Economic Development Commission was back up and running, highlighting activities of PTRC or thanking Planning Commissioners would be good additions. Councilmember Holden said people should be able to ask questions after each segment, maybe give five minutes for questions from the audience as long as they stay on that topic. Councilmember Fabel disagreed. He recommended against having any questions at the State of the City. They could be encouraged to present questions in writing, come to the next Council meeting, or approach a Councilmember after the presentations. Councilmember Rousseau would like to see how long the presentation is before making that decision. She liked the idea of people submitting questions in advance so they could try to tie some of those into the presentation. Mayor Grant stated that from the discussion it sounds like they've taken out food trucks and chickens but he thinks they are probably looking at an hour of topics. Councilmember Monson suggested they have notecards that people can write questions on and give them to staff to sort through. She would prefer to have questions at the end. Mayor Grant said they could ask for cards to be collected after each presentation so there was time to go through them. He noted that once the event is over, typically Council stays around to mingle and talk to residents. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 7 Councilmember Monson suggested 45 minutes for the presentations, and 15-20 minutes for questions. Mayor Grant said it will also depend on how long it seems when they get the first draft from staff. Councilmember Rousseau volunteered to take Community and Commercial Development. Councilmember Monson would like to take LJFD. Councilmember Holden offered to take Public Works. Councilmember Fabel thought he should take Rice Creek Commons. Mayor Grant said he would speak on Finances. Further discussion ensued regarding specific items within categories. Councilmember Holden suggested that City Administrator Perrault present on miscellaneous items such as Committees and Commissions, cannabis and NYFS. Donuts, water and coffee were agreed on for refreshments. C. Committee/Commission City Council Liaisons and Chair Appointments Discussion Mayor Grant thought he should be on the Personnel Committee. Councilmember Fabel felt they should all stick with the same assignments as they've had in the past year. Councilmember Rousseau was generally in favor of that, however she thought it would be great for Councilmember Monson to get experience as Mayor Pro-Tem. Councilmember Monson had no objections. Councilmember Holden said they didn't need to waste time talking about it then because it was already decided and would be three votes against two. She would like to serve on the Communications Committee. Mayor Grant would like to see someone else as the contact to the Ramsey County League. He had no problem being on the Twin Cities Gateway and Personnel Committee. Councilmember Fabel said he would like to continue with the Communications Committee. Councilmember Monson asked if Councilmember Holden was open to the Ramsey County League. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 8 Councilmember Holden replied that she would like to serve on the Communications Committee. She had interest in a lot of them felt they weren't open to utilizing all of the councilmembers unless someone else didn't want it. Councilmember Fabel said there was the Cable Commission, and Beyond the Yellow Ribbon that are open for councilmembers. Councilmember Holden asked why he wouldn't serve on one of those so she could serve on the Communications Committee. Mayor Grant asked Councilmember Monson how she felt about Councilmember Holden being on Communications. Councilmember Monson said she was thinking about it. She thought it made sense for her to stay on the JDA and Fire Board but she hadn't thought that much about people moving around on the other ones. Councilmember Rousseau said she previously thought Councilmember Holden wasn't interested in maintaining the Communications Committee, so she was in favor of keeping Councilmember Fabel on it. Councilmember Holden stated she thought they had all agreed to what the committee would be and what it was, so she didn't understand why any person couldn't fill that position. Councilmember Monson said they have a brand-new communications plan that they are implementing. She thought Councilmember Holden had strong comments about what goes into communications and she was heard, so she was trying to understand why Councilmember Holden wanted to be the Communications liaison. Councilmember Holden responded that she would be the filter, that's the definition of the liaison. Councilmember Monson said she wanted to see if the new plan worked. If Councilmember Holden wanted something and Councilmember Fabel wasn't responding then she would want to know and have a conversation about switching out the liaison. She would rather stay with Councilmember Fabel unless there was an issue that they can't get things on the newsletter. Councilmember Holden said she has complained about that for the last 12 months. The letter that went out used to say that the Mayor had such biased appointments, now it will say we have biased appointments and aren't willing to switch out. Mayor Grant explained what happened at the Ramsey County League; the presentations are mostly educational and once a month. The position would be more involved if there were changes to bylaws or other things like that. Councilmember Monson said she had listened to some of their meetings, and she would be willing to have her name there with everyone else as alternates. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION — DECEMBER 18, 2023 9 Councilmember Rousseau asked if they reappoint Mr. Scott to the Cable Commission this year, could they have an application process the next year so it would be open to other people from the public to have the opportunity to apply. Mayor Grant explained that the position is somewhat technical. They had an individual that served for about 15 years and who was highly technical in the field of communications. Mr. Scott is in the IT field and is a technical person. They should ask him if he wants to continue and if he does they should let him. Councilmember Rousseau said she was OK with that this year, but her concern was to have someone in place for 15 years without opening it up to the community. Maybe they could do a two-year term and then he could resubmit. Councilmember Holden said they just talked about the importance of having people continue on the committees, and this is the same thing. One of the reasons the person was on the committee for 15 years was because it's complicated with contracts, franchises, lawsuits, and service area. Sometimes they need a continuum like she's hearing from the other Councilmembers saying they want to stay on the same committees and not allowing her to serve on a committee of choice. She wouldn't want to open the Cable Commission up unless they had to. Councilmember Monson said she'd like Mr. Scott to present an update to them, or by email. She'd like the same with Beyond the Yellow Ribbon. Mayor Grant said they can certainly get updates. He explained some of the issues that had happened with the Cable Commission over the last year. Councilmember Fabel asked if the negotiation of the cable contract with the City would be part of that liaison's responsibility. Mayor Grant said it was. Councilmember Rousseau stated she would like an email letting them know when the contract was up and an update on what was happening this year. She wondered if they could have an update on Beyond the Yellow Ribbon for the newsletter. Councilmember Holden asked if a tax from the Karth Lake Improvement District would have to come through Council. Mayor Grant said yes, if they make a recommendation to levy a tax it goes to Council for approval. City Administrator Perrault stated that as of last year Council said if Karth Lake felt they needed a liaison they could request one, but generally they feel comfortable not having a Council liaison. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen attends the meetings. Councilmember Holden asked when they start working on things they want the City to pay for versus the District, does the City Council get involved then? ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 10 Mayor Grant stated that Councilmember Holden still has no committees but would like to serve on the Communications Committee. He had heard other's preferences, but thought it didn't speak well of the Council to not allow Councilmember Holden to serve. D. Preliminary Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Commercial Zoning Discussion City Administrator Perrault explained this would be the first of a two-part discussion regarding a number of zoning changes at Rice Creek Commons. At a previous City Council meeting they discussed changes to the areas west of the spine road. This was in -light of the recent developer proposal to increase the density from 1,460 to up to 1,960 housing units. Council may want to consider modifications to the commercial zoning regardless of any density changes or as a result of anticipated zoning changes. If they allow warehousing at least 30% of the building must be office. For big box retailer in Retail Mixed -Use there is no provision barring big box. Should Council want to suggest changes, it should also provide direction on how to move those forward. He noted there are other parties that are a part of this discussion, such as the County Board, the developer, and the JDA. Mayor Grant said he wanted to see jobs in that area, not necessarily 70% warehouse. They could go into discussions about the 30% being a percent of total square footage or of the footprint, or what constitutes office. That structure could be changed. He thought as they shrink commercial they need to be careful in terms of the area's appearance and building materials, especially because 20% of the proposal is affordable housing. What should the exterior building materials be? Tip up concrete has gotten better, but they need to be sure it looks like good quality and will stand the test of time. Councilmember Holden asked who the County was negotiating with for Outlot A. City Administrator Perrault couldn't say as it has not been publicly disclosed yet. They are having a closed session in early January to discuss the purchase agreement. He didn't think the entire JDA knew, but he thought the County Board representatives did. Councilmember Holden commented that they are not partners with the County on Outlot A, then. City Administrator Perrault responded that we are not privy to the land sale. Councilmember Holden said they took the bid, they're the ones that are negotiating it and the City has no clue who they are, so they're not really partners. When the JDA had the commercial marketing experts in, what did they say about commercial? City Administrator Perrault thought the main takeaway was to continue to offer flexibility to allow for more types of businesses to enter the space. They had a retail person come in and someone from Greater MSP and two others that were more housing related. There is less demand for office space but more demand for light manufacturing, R&D, etc. The message was the more flexibility we can have in the zoning codes to attract businesses coming in will serve the community better. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 11 Mayor Grant said the retail person and Greater MSP aren't developers, they've not built a building. Greater MSP knows about commercial but they're not a builder, they're not the people with money on the line. Councilmember Holden said they didn't have anybody like Ryan, Roberts or Opus come in. She asked if the developer (Alatus) was planning on buying some wetland credits. City Administrator Perrault didn't know the answer to that question, but he could ask. Councilmember Holden stated some developers are saying that small offices are going to be big, not large buildings, but like Saltbox is now; one building with multiple offices in it, especially in the suburbs because people don't want to go downtown. She heard that from two commercial developers. She thought it was important that if they are going to have homes that people want to buy and keep them affordable, gasoline prices are only going to go up and people will have to go to Rosedale or Mall of America on a bus to get to work, and that won't be conducive to living life if they don't have anything close by for them to work at. Mayor Grant said after the 32 acres was taken out of that section there was about 80 acres left. If they put in a big box store, they're not going to generate a lot of jobs. He thought they need to limit building size, something like 65,000 square feet maximum. Jobs per square foot become important. He thought if they get into the really large big boxes, they don't bring in a lot of jobs per square foot. Councilmember Fabel thought it was way too early to be discussing that level of detail. The indication is they need flexibility and they need to see what comes forward after they do the amendment to the Comp Plan. The developer is starting to talk to people that might be interested in coming to develop and he thought they had to give it time for that process to work out and not tie anybody's hands in advance. They want to have the availability of retail in walking distance for the people of the town center and the entire project. They want groceries available with affordability, and a big box such as Costco might fit in just fine. He said of number of residents have told him they'd like a Costco. Councilmember Rousseau asked when the information about Outlot A becomes public. City Administrator Perrault replied it would be after the County's closed session in January. Councilmember Rousseau asked what was the square footage of a grocery store like Cub, or the unnamed grocery store. Mayor Grant said Cub was 64,000 square feet. Community Development Director Jagoe thought the unnamed grocery store was 48,000. Mayor Grant wanted to leave enough flexibility to have grocery stores. He wasn't sure what the square footage of a Costco would be, but the parking lot can take up quite a bit. Councilmember Monson said the bigger trend from the retail person was to create a destination in order to be successful. A place where people want to live, walk, eat, drink and shop. Greater MSP highlighted a lot of things around a need for sustainability. They talked about having an ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 12 office and a small manufacturing footprint, but not build to suit. At a Planning Commission meeting Mr. Lux said there is something like a million square feet of commercial space that is empty in the Twin Cities metro area. She thought it would be a good idea to have Mr. Lux come in to talk to the City Council about what he thinks would in demand for commercial space and the anticipated forecast. She also thought they should agree on an economic jobs plan that they recommend to the JDA. Because they have a developer, he can bring them things that they would want rather than just work within the codes. She thought zoning was just one tool to determine what goes in or to shape the city, and if they were really talking about jobs they should be doing that in an EDA meeting. They need to be an active participant in shaping the jobs, from incentives and programs. Councilmember Holden believed a lot of that was in the original JDA agreement. City Administrator Perrault said it was in the 2016 goals. They wanted 4,600 jobs that were either well or high paying jobs. Councilmember Holden said the developer was here to make money. If they have a 15 or 20 year build out she didn't want the first person who offers to pay for everything to get a prime piece just because they are willing to line the developer's pockets. She thought if they don't set expectations they're going to get what they get. Giant warehouses create giant parking lots that adds to run off and lower tax revenue. They have a master developer but they also have to take control of their own city and set expectations to protect the City's future and our resident's futures. Mayor Grant stated that's why you zone properties, to get something that the community desires. Mr. Lux builds apartment buildings, he can get someone else to build single family homes. Of course, he will say he wants more acreage to build more apartments. He didn't fault Mr. Lux for that, but he's not sure that was the City's vision. You can say let's be flexible but do you let the developers build what they want or to zone property to get something that is important to the City. Otherwise you'd just say the developer can build what they want where they want. He didn't know if they necessarily have to have a big box, he thought they didn't get the jobs. They sliced off 32 acres of jobs and they need to pay careful attention to what goes into the remaining 80 acres. You describe what you want in zoning and then you tell the developer to bring in something that matches. The developer's goals may not match up with what the City Council wants, at some point they need to be the leaders, not the followers. Councilmember Fabel said the Joint Development Authority adopted a term sheet with the developer last month. One of the specific provisions is an interest of the JDA and the developer in good paying jobs as part of the Rice Creek Commons project. It addresses exactly what the Mayor is talking about. It indicates the commitment of the JDA to pursue that along with the other objectives set forth in the term sheet. There is no reason to suspect that the JDA will say to bring in a bunch of parking lots and warehouses. That wouldn't be consistent with the term sheet. He thought the Mayor was trying to tie the hands of the JDA, developer and County by specifically telling them what they can talk about and not see what the free market brings in. The terms of the term sheet can be fulfilled in any number of ways under the existing zoning code, or there may be some amendment to that but let's see what's out there under the concept of the overriding terms of the term sheet. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 13 Councilmember Monson thought the Council needs to set an expectation of what this City wants and what they want out of the jobs. She agreed that they don't want to fully hand over control to a developer, they need to protect the City. But instead of diving deep into the zoning today she thought they needed to have a conversation with Mr. Lux, and make sure the Council agrees to the goals that were written before. If there wasn't a dramatic departure from what was already written they can try to decide and see what they want to do for zoning around warehousing and retail. She was generally open to the warehousing adjustment, barring any market issues. She didn't love huge parking lots but she knew lots of people would love to have a Costco. Councilmember Holden said she believed that in the Joint Powers Agreement it says that the City of Arden Hills is responsible for the zoning. They are not tying the hands of the JDA, they've been given permission to do the zoning. She had history with Mr. Lux that he had made promises that didn't come true. He has great visions and great ideas but when they become expensive he can't live up to the dreams that he had. Mayor Grant added that it was stated there is a term sheet that recognizes that jobs are important, yet for some reason they've gutted 32 acres worth of commercial area which would have created jobs. If they were going to bring someone in to talk about commercial it should not be the developer, it should be someone from Opus, Ryan or similar. They are not tying the hands of the JDA, they're stating what the preferences are to the City. As the leaders of the City they should decide in consultation with residents what is important. Mayor Grant stated that when the Mayors get together and talk about businesses they feel jobs in the area are important to the surrounding cities too. Looking at retail and jobs is what makes a development important, unique and special. When you think of places that you want to frequent it's because they have the retail and the jobs. Councilmember Rousseau asked if they have an estimate of how many flex office jobs are anticipated for the area. Community Development Director Jagoe said there was no projection for jobs, but the area was projected to have 400,000 square feet of flex office. Removing the 32 acres would take about 300,000 square feet off. Councilmember Rousseau thought the 2016 goals were good in general. The big challenge is getting shovels in the ground and recognizing that markets are always changing. It sounds like in a month they will know what it happening with Outlot A. She felt they need to revitalize some of the economic development opportunities. She would be interested in meeting with the developer. She would like to see if there are any resources at the County to see if they are seeing any trends, and utilizing the EDA or EDC to try to support getting good jobs and businesses people want in the community. She talked with people that have said it would be nice to have a bar that you could walk to, not just something like an Applebee's, she wondered how do they get those businesses to come to our community. Councilmember Fabel stated that all of those considerations are certainly valid. He told Mayor Grant that he keeps coming back to the fact that the southwest parcel has been changed; he fought that battle and lost that battle so he should get over it. The decision was made that the project was going to have more housing than the Mayor supported, even at the price of removing some commercial property. There is a lot of commercial space remaining. The JDA is a partnership ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 14 between the County and the City. Certainly, the City has the legal obligation in zoning but it is done as part of a partnership. They want to develop the area to the west in a way that is constructive, will bring in employment, good paying jobs and small business opportunities as well. There is no reason to think the developer and the County are not also on board and want it to be a beautiful development that brings people in and that is going to happen. All of those items are laid out in the term sheet and he encouraged the Mayor to take a closer look at it to see what all the objectives are that are being pursued by the partnership. Part of the decision made by the partnership and now made by the City Council is that they are not to increase the amount of housing over that which had been previously agreed to by the City to a larger number. They have a decision to make in January of whether or not they will amend the Comprehensive Plan to accommodate that, and after that if it gets turned down, they're back where they were before and they can start talking about adding to commercial property again. But the votes that have been taken by the City Council are that they want additional housing and that area is needed for the additional housing they're going to have. The remaining property is for commercial development as a partnership with the City, County and developer and they're going to want to come in with constructive, creative, job producing opportunities that are in the interest of the City. Councilmember Holden said no one seemed to be concerned about the jobs that were lost until the Mayor brought it up. Secondly, she heard the Mayor saying they lost those 32 acres and they need to make accommodations so they still have jobs and what they have there is not meeting the expectations of filling the number of jobs up to 4,000 and making sure they are decent, well paying jobs. She encouraged the Mayor not to stop worrying about the number of jobs on TCAAP, they need the jobs because they are increasing the population. They want people to go there and eat at the restaurants during the day. It's hard to have a nice bar they can walk across the street to if the bar can only be open from 4:00-8:00. Mayor Grant responded that initially when he brought up the concept of jobs it was the loss of what the 32 acres could have brought. His point was they now have approximately 80 acres left and they need to make sure there are good jobs there. They have a precious asset of 80 acres and he wanted to make sure it was utilized in good fashion. He was hearing that they should just let the developer tell them what it should be, the developer is going to say what's going to be best for them, not necessarily for the City. Councilmember Fabel did not need to tell him about what the agreements are and what the committees are and say the word partnership again. He would remind Councilmember Fabel that he put those agreements into place; he knows what they are as he word-smithed them for the better course of a year. Councilmember Monson asked if there was any interest in having the developer come to discuss the goals that were set in 2016. Assuming the County signs an agreement on Outlot A, maybe that developer. She would prefer to have Mr. Lux there because he is their developer. Mayor Grant would be fine if the chosen developer for Outlot A comes, and he would be fine if that developer developed the rest of the commercial portion of TCAAP. He thought they brought together a really good plan. Mr. Lux is a housing guy, if they want to talk about commercial space they should bring in a commercial developer, someone that is independent. Councilmember Holden agreed that they should bring in two or three. They all see things a little differently. When they put the JDA and plan in the first place they had six multifamily developers come in to give them their thoughts and you could see the theme that was best for TCAAP. Councilmember Monson asked if they had a developer signed when they had the others come in. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 15 Mayor Grant said they did, and the other developers were happy to come in. Councilmember Holden added that they needed more than one person with a vision because everyone sees the future differently. Councilmember Rousseau would be interested in that, but she would like to understand what was happening with Outlot A before they have that meeting. She also wondered if there was a County Director of Economic Development that could provide input. Mayor Grant stated that he didn't know if Staff had good direction or not. City Administrator Perrault thought the conversation coalesced around having Mr. Lux and/or his commercial representatives invited to a meeting after the JDA work session and invite additional developers including the Outlot A development person to discuss commercial marketing conditions, zoning conditions that might be averse to attracting development, along with warehousing/commercial/manufacturing options that we allow or don't allow. Councilmember Holden didn't want the developer of Outlot A there because they may already have bias on what they're creating and may want to offset it so they can fill their commercial area first. She also didn't think a County representative should be there because they are biased and may want things in Arden Hills that may not be the best for Arden Hills. Councilmember Rousseau would still be interested in having the County understanding that there may be biases. City Administrator Perrault said he would start working on it and give the Council an update. Discussion ensued regarding the timing of the County approving Outlot A. E. Arden Manor Hardcourt — CDBG Discussion Assistant Public Works Director Miller stated there was a change order approved in July to remove the hard court from the Arden Manor Park improvements this past summer with the idea of pursuing future Community Development Block Grant funding. Staff recommends the first step be to hire a consultant to begin the CDBG process. Cost is anticipated to be about $5,000. There are two options the Council should consider with the CDBG program: the first is applying for CDBG to cover all engineering and construction costs resulting in a 2025 construction timeline, or the City paying for the design engineering cost and applying for construction cost and construction admin cost resulting in a 2024 construction timeline. Staff would like direction on whether to pursue the grant and to consider direct selecting a consultant for professional services to administer and deliver the proposed project. Councilmember Holden thought they should do it. Councilmember Monson would support getting it shovel ready for construction in 2024 and was OK with direct selecting. Mayor Grant agreed, and said to go after the grant. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 16 Councilmember Rousseau supported it. Councilmember Fable said it made sense to do. F. Triangle Parcel Naming Discussion Assistant Public Works Director Miller stated that on March 21, 2023, the Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee motioned a recommendation that the City Council officially designate the City -owned property as Triangle Park. Council requested that PTRC request another name. At the November 14, 2023 PTRC meeting, the commission motioned to recommend the name Checkerboard Park. Councilmember Holden was disappointed with the name even though there is a checkerboard there, but being a major gateway to the City she was hoping they would come up with a really nice park name. She contacted the person who designed the park, donated shrubbery to the park and took care of it for many years. He suggested several options: Arbor Park, because of the trees, South Point Park, because of the location and shape, Crossroads Park because of the five intersecting roads, and Pine Tree Park because it has so many pine trees that border it. She was hoping for a sophisticated name in a gateway location. If the park was an interior park Checkerboard park would fit better. Councilmember Rousseau said PTRC was considering the fact that it was a small park and has the checkerboard that makes it unique. Mayor Grant would choose any of the newly suggested names. He thought Crossroads was an interesting name, it does have some beautiful trees, it does point south and is in the south end of Arden Hills. He would go with Triangle Park before he'd go with Checkerboard. Councilmember Monson liked South Point and Arbor Park. Councilmember Holden could go with either one of those two. Mayor Grant agreed. Councilmember Rousseau preferred both of those over Crossroads. After a short discussion, South Point was agreed on as the new name of the park. G. EDA Member Discussion City Administrator Perrault said the State statute says the Commission should be made of three, five or seven members. The Arden Hills Commission is set up with five members which have traditionally been the five City Councilmembers. There is some flexibility, but there is a minimum of two Councilmembers that must be on the Commission. Would Council like to increase the number of members to seven and/or expand the opportunity. Also, would they like to change the date of the January EDA meeting as it falls on a night that the Council meeting has already been cancelled. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 17 Councilmember Rousseau explained that she wanted to see if there was any appetite to change the EDA to seven members. She would love to have one person from the Planning Commission and one person from the Economic Development Commission come to help make decisions about what their economic priorities are in this area. She felt there is a car wash coming to the Pace site and another car wash interested next door, that seems like a great location that they could have done something else with. What if they utilized the Planning Commission and Economic Development Commission knowledge to try to come up with economic development opportunities; what are they going to try to target in the area, such as do they want or not want night life. Councilmember Holden asked if she way saying the City would pay people to come in. Councilmember Rousseau responded that Rice Creek Commons might be an opportunity to reduce rent or something to get small businesses in. Councilmember Monson asked how much staff time would there be to have an active EDA? Community Development Director Jagoe replied that she didn't know that answer because it would depend on what the scope of the EDA was setting out to do. Councilmember Monson liked the idea of revitalizing the EDA. EDA's buy land and provide incentives. The Pace site is a major corner and they could have had influence by incentivizing there. She was open to seven members. Councilmember Holden said they've had a seller who has doubled the price of the Pace site above the market value and she didn't know how the City could have stepped in. The site has significant environmental concerns; are they supposed to fund the cleanup? How did they as City miss the boat on Pace? She didn't think that was a good example. Maybe they need to zone it differently but there have been opportunities for nice things there but the seller hasn't been willing to lower the price or allow them in to do a phase one. Mayor Grant said he wouldn't want the City to buy property that has environmental concerns like that one does and is overpriced. The good news is there is interest in the site. He didn't know if expanding the EDA benefits them in any way, but it doesn't hurt them in any way. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should. He preferred to leave the EDA the way it is. Councilmember Holden said at least as a Council you know of all of the other monetary restrictions that are imposing on you as a city, where if you add two outsiders that are only thinking about economic development, money is no object. Councilmember Rousseau asked how they were going to address the development at Rice Creek Commons, were they going to go through the developers and put together a plan? Mayor Grant said the EDA can utilize the same tools with a five -member board as they can a seven -member board. Councilmember Rousseau said the key topic of conversation in the EDA over the last couple of years had been gateway signs. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 18 Councilmember Holden noted that when they were looking at TCAAP one of the environmental specialists told them never to be in the line of title on TCAAP or any polluted land because you start getting into the liability issues. Mayor Grant said he wasn't seeing any pressing need or advantage to increasing the size of the board. Councilmember Holden felt it would be nice if they got the committee going and knew how it was working before they added additional members. Mayor Grant agreed that might be a good idea. Councilmember Rousseau was willing to do that and maybe look at it again in six months. Mayor Grant thought they might want to have the next meeting on the second Monday in February. City Administrator Perrault noted they would also have a work session that night. There would be an item regarding the Primer Tracer concept plan/zoning and potentially a discussion with developers regarding Rice Creek Commons. Discussion ensued regarding the sale of the Primer Tracer land. Councilmember Rousseau suggested February 26 for an EDA meeting. Councilmember Holden wasn't available. Mayor Grant suggested the second Monday in March, as they are already scheduled for a Council meeting and work session that night. H. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion Councilmember Rousseau commented that during the open house 1.7 people per unit was presented by the developer, she was wondering if they could get some clarification about where that number came from and what the impact was with planning. Councilmember Monson thought what he would design wouldn't be the same as how Mounds View School District would assess numbers. Mayor Grant suggested they ask the school district demographer what they think. Councilmember Holden thought they should ask the developer because if they were building affordable housing they would need to know how many three -bedroom units they were building. Councilmember Monson said he spoke on the tour about a building that had a lot of three and four -bedroom units because the city of Hopkins gave them multiple millions of dollars in order to have a strong family -oriented building. She loved the idea of having units that are family focused. Councilmember Rousseau asked if the average number in Arden Hills was at 2.1 or 2.3 units per household? ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - DECEMBER 18, 2023 19 Mayor Grant thought it was around 2.3. The number fluctuates but it's in that general range. Councilmember Holden said one of the things they strived for was to not have concentrations of affordable units all together. Councilmember Monson thought they were all aligned with that. City Administrator Perrault stated the 1.7 number stuck out in his mind as the developer was talking about market rate apartments but not the site as a whole. He thought the explanation was one to two people occupied per market rate unit but up to four in the affordable units. He can ask for clarification. I. Council Tracker Councilmember Holden asked if the tracker was up to date. City Administrator Perrault said to his knowledge it was. In the past Council had asked staff to not take anything off of the tracker until they were told by Council. 4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES Councilmember Rousseau said PTRC had a few motions that she wanted to bring Council's attention. They were asking to have some of the members attend a work session for clarity on plans to improve the roundabout at Lindey's. Some residents were disappointed with the grass and PTRC put together a few other options. Councilmember Holden said staff only has so many hours and they have raingardens that need to be cleaned. If they do this, the City takes total responsibility for that area from that point on. She said that to her, that is one thing that needs to be weighed, does Public Works have time to do a project like that? Also, where did PTRC separate from roadways and site lines? She would like to hear from staff to find out the financial implications and how much more work it will be before they meet with PTRC about it. Councilmember Rousseau said the PTRC had talked about a fire pit donation from a resident. And they would like to hold an open house before spring break to highlight the parks and emphasize opportunities coming up in Arden Oaks and options for the roundabout. Mayor Grant said regarding the fire pits, comments were made at the PTRC meeting regarding the Foundation. One individual on the Foundation was aware of it. A builder built a spec home that had two firepits and the people that bought the home didn't want them. Residents suggested giving them to the City. The Foundation hasn't received them or talked about it. He didn't know why the Foundation would be intermediary to receive them. The resident that bought the spec home is not the resident who is giving the fire pit. Councilmember Holden noted the fire pits were propane. Mayor Grant mentioned the last time someone made a makeshift fire pit they burned down one of the park shelters. He thought they needed to hear from staff about it. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION — DECEMBER 18, 2023 20 ADJOURN Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Work Session at 8:00 p.m. o e Traub Deputy City Clerk