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City of Arden Hills ▪1245 West Highway 96 ▪ Arden Hills Minnesota 55112
Phone 651.792.7800 ▪ Fax 651.634.5137 ▪ www.cityofardenhills.org
Request for Special City Council Work Session
A special meeting may be called by the Mayor or by any two Councilmembers.
Reason for meeting: 1. Public Inquiries/Informational
2. Response to Public Inquiries
3. Agenda Items
A. Johanna Shores Concept Review
B. Event Center Concept Review
C. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion
D. Parks, Trails and Recreation (PTRC) Work Plan
E. 2025 Arden Oaks and Freeway Parks Improvement Project
F. RFP Community Development Consultant – Ordinance Updates
G. City-Owned Land Encroachment Discussion
H. Legislative Priorities and Processes
I. Committee/Commission Liaison Roles and Responsibilities
J. Proclamation Policy
K. Future Agenda Setting/Council Priorities/Future Topic Discussion
L. Council Tracker
4. Council/Staff Comments
Adjourn
Requested Date: 3/11/2024
Requested time: 5:00 pm
Open meeting X Closed meeting
Signature of person(s) making request:
3/7/2024
Mayor or Council Member Date
/ /
Council Member Date
-This section to be completed by City staff-
Date received: 3/7/2024
Date meeting to be held: 3/11/2024
Time of meeting: 5:00 pm
Location: City Hall
All necessary posting and notices have been completed.
3/7/2024
Signature of City Clerk Date
'It
,-SRZEN HILLS
Approved: March 11, 2024
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
FEBRUARY 12, 2024
5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDERIROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Grant called to order the Special City
Council Work Session at 5:00 p.m.
Present: Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Brenda Holden, Emily Rousseau,
Tena Monson and Tom Fabel
Absent: None
Also present: City Administrator Dave Perrault, Finance Director Joua Yang, Community
Development Director Jessica Jagoe, Public Works Director/City Engineer David
Swearingen, Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson, Roberts Group
President and CEO Nicholas Roberts, United Properties Executive Vice President of
Commercial Development Phil Cattanach and North Shore Development Partners
Principal Matt Alexander
1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL
Gregg Larson, 3377 North Snelling Avenue, felt the State of the City presentation was done
well. Staff did a wonderful job putting together the slides and the Council did a good job
presenting them. It was nice to see so many residents in attendance and he thought it might be due
to the change of date, time and location.
Lynn Diaz, 1143 Ingerson Road, said she noticed they will be developing the southwest corner of
Rice Creek Commons as residential and there will be no green space for that neighborhood so
they might want to consider that adjustment. She felt a development at the old City Hall property
might not be desirable unless there was a high wall. She thought they should consider ADU's for
Rice Creek Commons and allow more people to live on a residential lot.
2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES
None.
3. AGENDA ITEMS
A. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Commercial Zoning Discussion
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - FEBRUARY 12, 2024 2
City Administrator Perrault stated that at a previous work session Council discussed
commercial zoning on Rice Creek Commons and requested staff bring back commercial
developers to discuss the site. Specific items discussed were building materials, retail building
size, and warehouses.
Mr. Cattanach noted that United Properties has developed office industrial, multi -family, retail
and senior housing. They also own a substantial amount of real estate.
Mr. Roberts said he's been in commercial real estate for almost 18 years. His grandfather
developed a lot of the industrial buildings in Arden Hills, he and his father have focused on
office/warehouse type buildings, retail and senior apartments.
Mayor Grant asked if they could talk about office/warehouse space and the trends in the
commercial market.
Mr. Roberts thought the warehouse component of the industrial office type building was critical.
Many manufacturing facilities need warehouse space to store product before it is worked on or
made into something, and while waiting to ship the finished product. He wouldn't consider
reducing the amount of warehouse.
Mr. Cattanach added that a traditional office user wouldn't need the warehouse aspect.
Businesses are looking for spaces where they can create or assemble something but also have an
office setting. Groups that want to have a location such as Rice Creek Commons want to have
access to a work force and having a class A space helps bring in employees. The key thing they
are seeing more of is the functional work space has gone higher to be able to put more product
inside the same square footage. Most buildings are being built on a speculative basis and having it
be as flexible and accommodating as possible to potential users.
Councilmember Holden said they are seeing people from outside the state buying the buildings
and rent is going up — they aren't asking for Minnesota rent, they're asking for New York rent.
Mr. Cattanach replied that industrial continues to be one of the most desirable products versus
office buildings. Right now, there is sub 5% vacancy for industrial space in the Twin Cities.
There is continued demand and that is showing where rent has to be. He thought rent here was
more affordable than in other markets.
Councilmember Fabel asked what they see as the office market in the suburban area and how is
it affected by the high rates of vacancy happening downtown.
Mr. Cattanach said a lot of companies are looking for smaller space than they currently have and
they are able to pay more for the smaller space. There has been a shift to more opportunities in
the suburbs but in his opinion if they don't have the user in tow, they don't have the ability to get
it financed because construction costs would probably be cost prohibitive. High rise office
buildings downtown that haven't had investment into amenities or increasing work space
environments will suffer because the only compelling thing they have to offer is low rent.
Conversely, a brand new office building can bring people back into the office.
Councilmember Rousseau wondered if they were still seeing corporate campuses or smaller
campuses.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - FEBRUARY 12, 2024 3
Mr. Cattanach responded they were not. They are seeing more consolidation where they are
trying to shrink their footprint and use flexible remote work.
Councilmember Rousseau was hoping the community could be walkable. She wondered if
sustainability support would entice businesses and whether certain size buildings could implement
that easier than others.
Mr. Roberts said it would depend on the type of building product but for the most part the larger
the building the more efficient it is to do something like solar panels on the roof.
Mr. Cattanach said they are incorporating something they call "solar ready" into their buildings.
Some groups value that availability and others don't have it as high on their priority lists. They
also like to use sustainable materials such as precast insulated panels which are one of the most
efficient building envelopes in existence. Building owners can get special financing to enhance
windows, mechanical system, incorporate solar, etc.
Councilmember Monson noted the State of Minnesota has passed new commercial building
codes that are aggressive on energy. Their goal would be to maximize the energy efficiency in the
buildings.
Mr. Roberts felt having the proper infrastructure was important for walkability, rather than the
size of the buildings.
Councilmember Holden asked if they were seeing some manufactures not be able to be all
electric.
Mr. Cattanach said it would be difficult for some users. A requirement that they have to be all
electric will push some to other locations, which would be a missed opportunity. Getting to net
zero with a manufacturer with a heavy power load is a lot trickier. At then end of the day, they
can't sacrifice their process to hit a certain energy threshold.
Mr. Roberts felt it was a good goal but anytime you start getting into manufacturing or
production processes there is more demand and asking them to pay another 15% to be based off
wind power or some other green initiative is a hard ask.
Mayor Grant summarized that there are companies willing to downsize into a facility with 32-
foot height, best in class space that is flexible with warehousing, manufacturing, research and
development and office.
Mr. Cattanach clarified that traditional offices are where they are seeing companies downsize.
Office/warehouse tends to be a tenant that has outgrown their space and moving into something
bigger.
Mayor Grant asked how much R&D, office, and warehousing they build into their spec
buildings.
Mr. Cattanach said they will build an empty building with loading docks, glass and entrances in.
That way the user can customize exactly what they need. There are an infinite number of
combinations of R&D, warehouse and office.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - FEBRUARY 12, 2024 4
Mr. Cattanach felt there weren't a lot of groups making big decisions with their office needs
unless they have to. Some groups want to get everyone back in the office, others are waiting for
another couple of years. The amount of office space going up today without a name attached to it
is very small.
Mayor Grant asked if the location of Rice Creek Commons makes it more desirable.
Mr. Cattanach replied that access was paramount to bringing people to a site and is a
competitive advantage.
Mr. Roberts said if they were talking about large office users there wasn't a lot of movement
there and he didn't see that changing for quite a while. But he thought that demand for smaller
office space as a component of manufacturing, or a small office building will always be there.
Their rule of thumb has been to have 20% office and 80% warehouse in that type of building.
Over the years, the office percentage has increased up to even 30%. Anything past that would
more than likely be torn out for the next tenant.
Councilmember Monson wondered if the proportionality of the current TCAAP plan was
consistent with the demand they were seeing.
Mr. Roberts said in regard to retail, online shopping has predominantly affected stores of 40,000
- 90,000 square feet. Larger stores are more immune to it.
Mr. Cattanach added that despite the concern of a big box, smaller tenants want to see a traffic
driver. He encouraged them to not restrict binary square footage because they may unintentionally
inhibit the success of the retail. Having something like an anchor grocer will be a big attraction
for businesses, small shop retailers and residents.
Councilmember Monson asked if they should take anything else like that into consideration.
Mr. Cattanach noted advancement in building technology specifically precast panels with thin
set brick. He felt it gives the efficiency of a tight building envelope while it still looks like stacked
brick. He felt requiring 30% traditional office in an office/warehouse was limiting as compared to
other places that don't have that requirement. He suggested saying no greater than a certain
percent can be warehouse instead of requiring office.
Mr. Roberts agreed that the focus should be more on a blend of uses and cars in the parking lot
instead of office. Office is expensive to build and for tenants to pay for.
Councilmember Holden was concerned that with something like a Costco right off the freeway
people wouldn't keep driving farther down to see the smaller businesses.
Mr. Cattanach replied that when they lay out the site plan, they have a pretty good idea of the
flow of traffic, in a lot of cases they can orient traffic coming out of the box site to go toward the
other retailers. He felt there was a way to make them harmonize without being prescriptive about
where the big box has to sit. Some of it will come down to the shape of the properties.
Mayor Grant thanked Mr. Roberts and Mr. Cattanach for coming and providing information.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - FEBRUARY 12, 2024 5
B. Sale of City -Owned Parcel at 1450 Highway 96
Community Development Director Jagoe said Matt Alexander from North Shore Development
Partners had contacted her at the end of last year regarding development opportunities within the
City, and asked about the City owned property on Highway 96. The site has been identified in the
past as a potential location for a Public Works building, but beyond that there hasn't been recent
discussions regarding the site.
Councilmember Holden thought they should discuss whether or not they are interested in selling
the property. Her concern is that they need another Public Works building.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they don't have space at the Ramsey
County facility and they are actually using the site to stockpile wood chips now. They're also
using it for overflow parking of equipment. The two potential sites they have looked at are this
site and on the current City Hall property. Leading up to TCAAP, they will need more equipment,
staff and space. They currently store some of their equipment in the water towers, so twice a year
they transfer equipment from there to the shop.
Mayor Grant added that originally when they went into the County facility they had earmarked
an area for expansion because they knew TCAAP was coming. After a few years, the County
added the Sheriff's Department in the same place they thought they would do an expansion. He
wasn't aware of another addition that could be done to the building.
Councilmember Monson said she has concerns about Highway 96; the driveways and
neighborhood entrances/streets that intersect with it.
Councilmember Holden thought one of the reasons they changed it to Neighborhood Business
was because it was on Highway 96, the childcare next to it and the townhouses on the other side.
Mr. Alexander said North Shore Development Partners recently completed a project in New
Brighton that was well received. The also recently did a project in Long Lake of stacked flats that
are a combination of a townhome and a garden apartment. He explained that they build pocket
neighborhood boutique rental communities. His proposal for this site is a well finished rental
townhome. He felt the market could support it and the location is great for rentals.
Mayor Grant noted the entrance from Hamline would need to line up with the street across from
it. He felt Council needed to discuss whether or not they wanted to sell the property at this time.
Councilmember Holden said they've never been able to get a road onto Hamline approved by
the County on the other proposals they've received.
Councilmember Fabel asked how much the units would rent for.
Mr. Alexander said they would rent for $2,000 - $3,200 a month.
Councilmember Rousseau asked for his thoughts about noise from Highway 96.
Mr. Alexander said they have arranged the buildings so only one end unit would get the brunt of
the noise.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - FEBRUARY 12, 2024 6
Mayor Grant felt he was a little early to the game being as the City has a need for property but at
some point the property may be sold.
Councilmember Rousseau asked how much square footage Public Works would need.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen replied they would need 15,000 - 20,000
square feet for storage area. They haven't done any type of topography survey on the City Hall
property.
Councilmember Monson felt they had many years to deal with the Public Works facility issue as
TCAAP gets going. She added that to put Public Works there just because the City owns the land
when it is prime Highway 96 land was something they needed to think about. She wondered if
staff could talk to the County about a Highway 96 study.
Mayor Grant said they need to figure out where the maintenance facility would go, as part of a
study.
Councilmember Holden thought one of the concerns is if they sell this they will have to buy
something somewhere else. She stated one of the reasons we were trying to build in this area is
because the other Public Works facility is right there and the guys interchange and work together
all the time. She thought discussing selling was premature.
Councilmember Fabel asked about the market for $3,000 a month rental townhome.
Mr. Alexander said there is a strong market, many are young families with small kids that aren't
in the position to buy a home but have good jobs. There is a renter by choice movement going on
in the Twin Cities and elsewhere.
Councilmember Rousseau wasn't against the idea but figuring out next steps while preparing for
Rice Creek Commons should happen first.
Mr. Alexander hoped if there was an opportunity in the future they would consider his company.
C. MCES Private I/I Grant Program — Equity Component
Mayor Grant said staff recommended to not have an equity component this year.
Councilmember Rousseau was in favor of staff s recommendation but would like a list of equity
requirements.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the equity component would be
formulated by the City, and varies from city to city. He would like to wait to see what other cities
are doing, then come back with their ideas to see what fits our community the best.
Councilmember Holden wouldn't like staff to have to review income tax forms, maybe they
could base it on home value.
Councilmember Fabel liked the assessed value of the home, and that it must be under a certain
dollar amount.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION - FEBRUARY 12, 2024 7
Mayor Grant noted the City was only awarded $45,000 to use, but they had to meet the criteria
for inflow and infiltration.
Councilmember Monson agreed with staff s recommendation.
Councilmember Fabel preferred an equity component of an assessed value of the home at under
$300,000.
Mayor Grant said the consensus was to go with the staff recommendation but to look at the
equity component for next year.
D. City Owned Land Encroachment Discussion
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he worked with the City Attorney to
create an Encroachment Agreement with the property at 3274 Katie Lane. He was asking Council
to review the agreement and the existing ordinance.
Councilmember Holden thought the wording should be changed to say something like any
privately -owned object or material couldn't be put in an encroachment area rather than making a
list. She thought they were going to say no more encroachments and didn't like the wording that
said residents could ask for an Encroachment Agreement. She thought the encroachment area on
this property shouldn't go to the trail and it should be stopped at the shrubs and she thought they
should put some city property signs there.
Councilmember Monson was in favor of people maintaining property that is nicer than an
invasive species. She liked Councilmember Holden's idea of not having a list of things not
allowed, but thought they could have a list of things they could have.
Mayor Grant didn't want people to encroach.
Councilmember Rousseau wondered if staff could decide on an agreement instead of it coming
to the Council for approval.
City Administrator Perrault said that's why they are where they are today; Director
Swearingen's idea of encroachment could be different than what a Councilmember thinks.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen felt it was written to say they don't allow
anything unless they have an Encroachment Agreement approved by Council. It's discretionary,
the previous Director or a Director after him might have a different opinion from his.
Councilmember Monson didn't think they needed to put city property signs. She was torn about
staff having discretion but also going to Council. She preferred to leave the discretion to staff.
She was fine with changing the encroachment area on this property to be where the homeowner
planted.
Councilmember Fabel didn't want to leave it with the Director, he thought Council should
approve them. He's concerned that neighbors will say if they can have it why can't we, so he'd
like to have a time constraint.
ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION — FEBRUARY 12, 2024 8
Mayor Grant felt they would have to bring this item back for more discussion.
E. City Attorney Discussion
Mayor Grant asked if Council would like to go hire Eckberg Lamers because they were second
place or go back out for RFP.
Councilmembers Fable and Rousseau would go with Eckberg Lamers.
Councilmembers Monson and Holden and Mayor Grant would go back out for RFP.
Mayor Grant directed Staff to go out for RFP-
F. Virtual Meeting Options
Mayor Grant asked if they wanted to take call -ins.
Councilmember Holden thought they could stay virtual but not take call -ins. They could type
questions in the chat area.
Councilmember Rousseau would defer to the Mayor.
Councilmember Fabel agreed.
Councilmember Monson would like to leave it as is, and was neutral until they had more
problems.
Mayor Grant said he and Administrator Perrault would deal with it as it happens.
G. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion
Not discussed.
H. Council Tracker/Council Priorities
Not discussed.
4. COUNCIL/STAFF COMMENTS
None
P Ut0111'.��`I
r Grant adjou ed the Special City Council Work ession at 6 0 p.
J ne Trau a avid Grant
Deputy City Clerk Mayor