HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 02-24-1960
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Minutes of Meeting
and Public Hearing
Village of Arden Hills, Minnesota
February 24, 1960
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. Mr. Courtney - with thesa~'law tJ.rm ...and Dick Jones, our new
trustee of the village, andMI'. Kennedy I am sure you know; end
Mr. Crepau and our Clerk. Mn .Stromqui ,t; Roger Short w1th the
Banister Engineering.. C,ompany a1Uf~.Pete1'Pop()V'ich ,with the bOnd
consultants that the village hasengag.d; and Mr. >8111 Banister. and
I believe we have a court reporter on the end. These are the ~ople
who will explain the program to you andelCplain about the sewer
itself _ the layout and >variOus other ,dehlls so that you may ~ 1I0re
fully informed as to Improvement No.3. Then, we will have a question
period and al so you ca,n volce, your opinion one way or the other after
you have received the facts. First I would Uke to call on the
Banister Engineering Company and I bell.eve}\oger Short will present
that for us.
loR. ROGER SHORT, BanhterEngineer1ng Company: Thank you,
.
Mayor Ashbach. The map which you see thrown on the screen here
shows the limit s of the area f or which thiS he Ill' ing is being held -
that for proposed ImpDfement No. :3 - the area is outlined in thiS
large jagged line on this map. Improvement NQ. 1 which Will
constructed last fall and completed early in January is this small
area here which was largelyconc:erned with tti. Arden Hills
No. 3 and 4subdivhions. IIp'ovement No.2. upon which a hearing
was held last fall, ,1(; located onth. westerly side of the area
which is being eonsigered;t.hh evening. This area consists of
approximately 520 acru of dry usabl' land. The gross area. of
course, is considerably greater than thatslnee the 9J;eaterportion
of Lake Josephine and ~pproximatelY one~half of Lake Johanna are
. , included within the limits, but in following the procedur.s>
neceiSSary. 'the _"dre area is included within the ducriptiotl.
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The sewer system. as proposed, would connect to the Village
of Rosevillesew.r ~ys't1"'~t app:td~trl1~te~ the intex:section, or'
Glen Hill Road or County Road D and Hamline Avenue, The outlet
fox: the sewage from this area was constx:uetedin 19~9 by the Village
of RosevUle and the authority for the enlargement of that sewex:
was authorized by the village council following the heuing for
Improvement N . 1 and this outlet was created and ill now existing
up to this point. The out let f or completed Improvement No. 1
15 made at the interseetion of Snelling and Glen Hill Road which
eventually reaehes the same point for continuation on into the
City of .5aintPaul. The system here is proposed all drain$
eventually either by gravity ox: through lift stations from one
large lift station at the intersection of Ingerson Road and HamUne
. Avenue and is lifted through a 10 inch force main and pumped
$outherly to the point of connection with the Rosevllle system.
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The reason tor that Is that the area in Arden Hills lies somewhat
lower than the area to the south in R,oleville making it necessary
that it be lifted to discharge. Everything connected from this
area must be lifted. There are no gravity connections in the Roseville
sewer system. The same condition was true in this area that ~verythin9
had to be lifted with the exception of the last house on Glen Hill
Road adjacent to Hamline Avenue.
In this program. the houses aren't shown in detail on this map as
they were on the maps whieh were fastened up to the wall here and
which you had an opportunity to look at earlier this evening. ,The
location of sewers, however, is shown. And in each and every case "it
is the same as that shown upon the maps on the side walls. The
layout of se""'rs is the same as that that was shown on the map at
your hearing on Improvement No. 1 lut mMaywith the exception that it
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has been modified 1 oelieve in three separate minor modifications.
This was based upon comments by tlw people at the hearing last
May, comments that were gained later as well as suggestions from
the Village Council. One of these changes was to construct the
sewer following further along the lake just west of Siems Court
so that there l/ere three homes there which originally had been
proposed to have only first floor drainage which now receive base-
ment drainage. Another change to take it off from Ridgewood Court
an'd move it instead to Siems Court from Johanna Boulevard southerly
almost to Irden Place. The reason for that was the manner in which
the houses gained service to the sewer made it appear that that
',.ould be the most practical location. Ansother change ",as a change
of location off SHIes P,venue to the rear of the houses there for a
portion of the area since it appears that the same service may be
provided with a slightly different sewer and accomplish a little
better service to the property. Another and the last change was
made along the east shore of Lake Johanna where there were three
homes located here, two of which were not going to receive service
with the orig ina 11 y planned service a long Sne 11 in'] j,venue and furt her
studies and investigation indicates that it is possible that this
property can receive service rather than as originally proposed
in I:ay of 1959. In this area west of Snelling Avenue there are
two lift stations located, one in the low marshy ground in this
horseshoe shaped area which lies east of Pidgewood Road and north
of "rden Place. The second one would lie on the south side of Jchanna
31vd. and west of Siems Court and the sewers in this area would flow
to that lift station with discharge to the east and south.
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The other sewers are by gravity and flow do,vn to this main
lift station at this point. As you folks are well aC4uainted, the
topography is 4uite rough, particularly in the area west of Snelling.
One further lift station is proposed based upon the suggestion of
the Council last year since your fair share of industrial area lies
to the north of the Soo line right-of-way here and to get that
property, or a connection for that property other than at a minimal
depth it would be necessary to provide a lift station. Development
in that area will point out as to the exact location for a lift
station and would justify its construction if the buildings are
located any distance from the Sea line tracks.
,,,'e have recently discussed the mat':er of highway development
in the vicinity of proposed Trunk Highway 51 which, as you
rrobably know, is to continue northeasterly and then north alon;
its present site of Hamline Avenue rather than northerly along
Hamline and the plans for that construction the last time we
discussed it with the Highway Department were not completed.
";e don't know and have not been able to learn the exact detai 1
of grade separations and division. It is possible that rather than
extending up along the west side of new Highway 51 and crossing
there will probably be an underpass at the railroad tracts - it will
probably be necessary to stop at this point and extend up the east side,
\e have studied this matter over, the first work being done in
1958 wi':h the first preliminary report being submitted to the
Council in December of 1958. ~e have revised our work, as directed
by the Council and we have, as a result, the layout for the sewers
which you see on the screen and which you have seen on the side wall
here. ,e feel that this improvement is feasible, practical and
should be made in the l"anner in which it is proposed if the
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. i~provement is to proceed and go ahead.
I will answer ~uestions later, which you may have, after
l'r. l", povich comr letes hi s pre sent at i on of the other information.
I have not discussed costs or financing since that is the matter
which he will discuss. Thank you very much. (Applause)
I,R. P::TER "'. ?OPOVICH, Peterson 8. Popovich: Bill, ",)hy
don't you slip on that cost slide. I'll stay down here so my
shadow doesn't reflect because with the items being numbered I
can refer to tern and you will be able to follow me. These are
the costs that are anticipated in this improvement if it is ordered
and we have tried to break them down so you would have an idea about
how you would be affected, bearing in mind that this is purely
estimated, as we indicate on the top line, for the simple reason
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that we will not know exact costs until all the construction bids
are let. However, we have tried to follow the basis that all of
the costs v'e have indicated are conservative - that.'ie vlOuldn't
go over and that we probably won't 'jet that 11i9h. ',:e f e It it better
tc estimate toward Jreater costs and stay within it rather than
estirate a lONer cost and then exceed it.
Improvement Nc. 1 was estimated at ~13C,GOC and S12C,GCC bonds
were actually issued.
'n no. 3 the estimated improvement cost
is 1565,OOO.CO. That's the actual cost of construction that the
engineers have estimated including the obtaining of ea'sements and
letting of construction costs.
,e have rounded it off to a proposed
bond issue of S60C,OOO.OC. The reason for that is because in
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addition to the construction costs you have interest costs during
the course of construction because it rnQY take a year to get the
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whole thing done. By the time the assessment rolls are/process
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you have issued bonds that you must issue as you go ahead on
construction to payoff your contractors and naturally since the
villa~e has no funds no~ it has to get sufficient funds and this
is what we ca 11 capital ized interest. ,,0 the proposed maximuIC
cost woulc be i600,OOO. If the project proceeds faster, there
,.<ouldn't be that much interest CO'o":. If construction costs are
less than anticipated, then there will be that ~uch less in
construction cests and so we have felt that we have a very con-
servative figure here in ;6CO,OGC.
In I~prover'ent N0. 3 the proportion of bonds to be paid by
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general taxes is "none". In other words, nothing will be against
the general taxing power of the vi 11age. No I:\i 11 rate increa se.
This area alone will pay for this project on a complete assessment
prograrr. This was true in No.1. They handled it completely down
'there and in No. 2 west of Lake Johanna, that too was ICef,' assessment.
This is a policy decision that the Council had made early last
year and they are following that consistently that each area, if
they want sewer service, would pay for the cost and so your general
taxes on your house would not have to go up and that's the reason
we sho.,., it as none. Therefore, in r~o. 3 the proportbn of bonds
to be Faid by special assessment is i600,OOC. Breakioj that down
we have shown some detail here on approximate assessments, bearing
in mind that these are estimates and will be definite figures at
have
the time of the assessment hearing but in order that you/some idea
of Ahat this will cost you, this is it.
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'here you have abutting se,ver per front foot, ill"rred iate 1 y
abutting the property '~ill be ilO.CJ a front foot. If you de not
have sewer abutting your property but because of the general benefit
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to the drea, it's $2.
per front foot on non abutting property.
On non abutting unpldtted property - large undeveloped land -
its J,3CC,.,-:',) per acre. They don't abut immediately to "se'Ner. You
~ay have a sewer along a 4( acre strip. Naturally that 40 acres
benef i.;. $ so they have to pay to,lard the benef it becau se "hen they
develop later they don't have to run laterals. The service
connection Stub is $50.00. These service connections are from
the center of the street so the roadway itself doesn't have to
be torn up every time somebody decides to hook up and those service
connections are to the individual homes or business places and
it's estimated those costs would be $50.00.
The mill rate increase, of course, we show as "none" and
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in paragraph Nc. 7 the annual service charge is estimated at
7:."2.{" ,~r
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This service charge is the same thing as a sewer rental
that 'he have in St. Paul. It's for the cost of cperating the
system after it's built. It includes what Rcseville will charge, Nhat
the City of ~t. Paul charges and includes also a COSt for the
operation of your own department. In other words, once a sewer
system goes into operation you have to create a sewer department.
You have some employees, probably a truck, you have to flush the
sewer occasionally. All these things are covered by this charge
of i36.CC. This charge is high. In Roseville, for example, it's
:"24.00. Naturally yours would have to be higher because you not
on 1 y cover Roseville and St. Pau 1 but you have your own department.
,,'e have purposely put it at $36.00 because we had no way of knowing
. hOl,; many people would illlrnedi"tely hoo~ up and this is the same cost
we included in Improvement No.1. Naturally, if all of the people
in Improvement N(. 1 hook up, all of the people in No.2, if that is
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. ordered, dnd all of the people in this Improvement 1;]0. 3 hooK up,
it just then means that you have more people connected to the
system so that the average cost would go down. AS a result, it
would not be $36.00. For example, you have certain static costs
~hether you have 50 connections of 100 or 150. Supposing the average
cost is ';'3000 and you only have 5C connections, it means 5C people
have to pay for that $3,000 cost. If you add 4CC more connections
to it, the cost does not go up proportionately because the cost
does not go up in direct proportion to the number of people that
hook up and the service charge could be reduced, but we show it at
this higher figure and I am of the opinion that when everybody
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hooks up in Improvements 1, 2 and 3, that the cost will be closer
to 130, but again we wanted to give you the worst possible picture.
Then the next paragraph. "In order to determine your individual
total cost, multiply the front footage of your property by $10.00,
as indicated in Item 5 above and add $50.00 for the service stub.
Divide the total figure by 20 years to determine the yearly
assessment cost, and add 5~;~ on the unpaid balance each year". The
statute says that we can set up an assessment program over a period
not to exceed 32 years. The 30 year period came about two years
age but none of the communities are using thirty years. Most of
the!!' use twenty. I know of none using thirty and I ':,:ould have no
idea of ho~ that would be received in the bend trade and so we are
following the consistent patters of t'Jlenty years and if it's 20
years you divide the total assessment by 2C to get your princiij:al
. that would be due each year and it I s 5% on the unpaid balance. You
can pay this up cash in advance and save the interest, or any time
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during the 20 year period and save the interest during that
period of time.
~e have this one item that corner lots and odd shaped lots
will be given special consideration. That's because if you ~ave
a corner lot there's one way of approaching it and if they're pie
shaped lots special consideration is given as far as area and how
you tie in with the rest of the people in that whole block. ~,'hat
we're trying to do is have equality between like people in a li~e
area having like homes and like area in their lots. Une additional
cost is for the total cost - add an estimated connection of S2CC
which is paid individually or directly to your individual contractor.
This is the cost you pay once to ccnnect from the street :0 ycur
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house. The village does not hook up from the street to your heme.
This is your private business with your ;::lumber. Cf course,
dependent en how far back your house is located, ~hether your septic
tanK or drain field is in the front or back of the home - whether
you have certain plumbing, this cost may vary. It's frankly an
estimated cost. V;e have seen it below this and higher depending
0n individual circumstances. It's a cost that you poy once after
the system is there. 50 in order to bring this to a more concrete
exaMple, 'Ne have taken a home on today's market that WOUld sell for
about $2G,OOC in Arden Hills, which is reflective of this area,
located on an 80 foot lot which is a typical lot in Arden Hills.
,:,0 locking at it on this basis, we start with No. 1. The
specia I assessment would then be 8e feet times $Ie. ~c because they
. would heve imr.ediate service and pay SIC.CIC. That "auld be
:~8CC'.CJ fer the assessment. No.:2, the connection charge is this
22r~.-r that you pay cash to your plumber. It's not included in
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... your service or your special assessments on a yearly basis.
T~en, your service stub of $50.00 from the center of the street
to your home, and the taxes that a home like that would be paying
is nearly 150C,.0:. ONe show there would be no millage increase.
~o your taxes should remain at $490.00 and your service charge of
i36.CC. The first year is your worst year because if you don't
pay up in advance you have one-twentieth of the principal plus the
carrying charge of 5% en the full amount so 5% cn the total of
No.1 and No.3 you see, that's 1550.0D. 57!, on the full :t850.00
plus one-twentieth works out to $85.00. And that then would be the
first year's cost of your assessment which would be collected along
;,i th your real estate taxes on May 31 and October 31 of each year
thereafter. Nol 8 we show the average annui assessment. The average
. annual assessment is that cost spread over the whole 20 years because
bear in mind, in the twentieth year you're paying one-twentieth of
[SSe.CD which is $42.50 and 55!, on $42.~,C would be just a little
over S2.00 so your total cost that last year is i45.00. The first
year is :r65.0C and averaging it out over 2C years runs it out
:~:1)3.25. In lk. S we said the aer month cost which aaain would be
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Iour (arst month, would be the $[5.00 ;::lus the:I,36.:0 ,/ou see, includin}
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:he service charqe divided by 12 would be .J;lCJ8. If you take the
everage again Nhich would be the 163.7'5 plus the $36.0C, divide that
by 12, ~ould be $8.31 which would be your ~otal monthly cost.
Sear in mind, however, thet it's only the $85.00 or the $63.75 which
is collected with your yearly regular estate taxes on your home.
The $36.00, the service charge, would be collected by bill that you
'i',lculd get from the vi llage just like when you lived in St. Paul you
got a water and sewer bill when you were in town. The village hasn't
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. yet set that up but "i 11 be doin') it as soon as this new system
goes into operation and whether they wi 11 bi 11 quarterly or
~onthly I don't know yet and this is a policy for the village to
decide. Usually it's done on a quarterly basis. However, when
the costs start ~oing u? -
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Paul for years was on a quarterly
hasis and last year because we issued all those water revenue bonds
they went on a monthly basis and when you do it on a monthly basis
it doesn't aapear to cast as much. ~e wanted to show what the
total cost ~culd be i~cluding the service charge and assessment so
you wculd know what the total cost would be to you including
everything except the connection charge of $20:.00 which is a
one shot deal. Of course, at the end of twenty years there would
be no more assessment charge dlcng with your real estate taxes and
.. the only thing you would pay would be the service charge then in
effect for the operation of the system.
You notice in the heavier type we say "only the property
ioc luded in the proposed sanitary sewer improvement II . 3 area wi 11
pay the special assessment. Property of the village outside the
improvement area ':'ill pay no assessments whatsoever for this
iJ"1provement". Property out side of that improvement ",ill not
ce,ntribute one dime toward thio just as you who live in Improvement
No.3 are contributing nothing toward Improvement No. 1 or 2 or
~ossibly 4 or 5 as the case ~ay be in later years. Each proposed
irnproverr,ent wi 11 stand on it S 0''.'0. ':e find thi s ch ar]e is a fair
assesJT:ent.
I might say that this Council has adopted a 5;';
carrying charqe. ~,an;J of the cornrr:uni":ies are IT'Dving to 6;,; because
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interest rates on bonds have gone up higher, as you well know. If
yeu go do~n to the bank today to borrow on a short term note, at
"Jne tir.1e you could get it at 5:<. Ne'i it's 6?' and 6;.t~. !\'any of the
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cor-rl'uni:ies are mcving up to 6~<. This community so far has done
it on the basis of 5~ and Improvement No. 1 has been predicated
on that basis as has No.2 and we carry that forward here in
Improvement No.3. of course, if the money market gets tighter,
we may have to move up to 6% in order to cover the interest on
bonds because you have to cover your principal and interest und
that's the reason for it. This interest charge, ",hether 5~; er
6%, and as I say it's predicated now on 5%, is what you can save
if you desire to pay cash. The way this works is that assuming
the Council decides to move ahead after they ascertain from the
people what their feelings are, they would then order the improve-
ment and then construction bids would be re4uested by the engineers
in probably I, 2 or 3 pr0jects. Sometimes it's not all let at one
time, but that's an engineering recommendation given to the Council.
After the contracts have been let and all costs have been
ascertained we issue the bonds to cover it so that the village has
money to pay the contractors as they proceed. Toward the end
of the year - in this particular case we couldn't finish this year -
this would probably run from 1960 to 1961 and the fall of 1961 is
when 'iie would hold our assessment hearing because we would then know
what all the costs would be and would then hold our assessment
hearing at which time you would have notice and you would then know
exactly what your charge would be against your individual property.
"hether you have a home or unplatted property, whatever the case
may be, we list it in an asse$ment roll. It's on file with the Village
Clerk. Notice is published. You have a right to come in and look
at it before the hearing so you know exactly what your proposed
assessment wculd be and then the hearing is held and you have the
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. right to come in and object or make some proposition so far
as whether you received full benefit or not. You notice on the
rn,ap some homes are shown as receiving ;::artial benefit. ~:ome
receive no service because they're so low from the road thiit
this system works on gravity and there isn't any way that you can
pump from the house up higher to the road and if you have no
service available you pay no assessment. Some of those dots are
half dots dlich means that the house is located below the road such
that you don't have service in the basement but you could have it
on the first or second floor. In that case you would pay a reduced
charge. ~e haven't taken those odd situations into account here.
.~ tried to give you a typical situation but if any of you have
one of those dotted areas on the map that's the purpose for it and
. naturally there could be no assessment unless there is a correlating
benefit. If the benefits are not complete, then partial
assessments are made and that is done at the time of the azsessment
hearin~ and before that assessment roll is adopted you have a
chance to come in and speak on your particular piece of property.
After the assessment hearing has been hOO, you have 3C days to CClT'e
in and nay up without any interest penalty and that assessment
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rcll is held here in the village officials hands until the 3C day
pericd has gone by and usually we try to do this in the month of
Gctoher - hold the assessment hearing scrr.etirre by the middle of
October se that the 30 days will bring it up to November IS. fYou
have 3' days and then the assessment roll is brought to the County
Aud i tor where it is spread dur in';1 the month of December a long with
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the regu16r taxes and collected that way. Some people may not want
to pay the full assessment that year. They may want to let it
~o for a year or two but you can come in and pay it any time, at
which time you just pay interest up to the end of the year in which
you pay. In May of 1962, for example, if you decided to pay the
whole thing up, you would have to pay interest to the end of 1962.
If you decided not to pay it in 1962 you would pay the regular
assessment on May 31 and October 31. Same thing in 1963 and then
perhaps in 1964 you may decide to pay the whole thing up and you
would pay it up and save the rest of ;your interest. We have
found from experience that the prepayments on assessments range
from 10;; to 33% depending on the community. In some areas many
people come in and decide to pay up to save the interest charge.
. Others want to pay up for one or more other reasons. If you decide
to sell your home, then, of course, you should be very careful
about paying in advance because this is something you have to
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work out with your proposed purchaser. As you know, when people
buy a house they buy it with all taxes and assessments paid up
to the year in which it is sold so if you decide to pay in advance,
if you're thinking about selling, then, of course, by paying in
advance you would have to be sure to increase the price of your home
to recapture what you prepaid. That's a personal thing.
I think I've covered everything that is applicable here, Mayor.
I'll be happy to answer any questions. As the Mayor said, we have a
Court reporter here. You will speak, giving your name, your address,
whether you're for or against it or whether merely asking a question
or seeking further information. This is a public hearing that's
held in lieu of an election because of only a partial portion of the
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vilf1age being handled at one time and, as a result, we want to
be sure it's conducted according to the statute. With that, I
think I've concluded.
r;j\yOR ASH3!,CH: Thank you, I,;r. Popovich. Now, as Mr. Popovich
has said, that is re4uired that when you rise you must either state
whether you're asking a ~uestion, whether for or against. That has
to be, according to law I believe, and state your name and address.
00 now I'm sure there must be a lot of questions, a lot of comments
or suggestions. Je're willing and want to have them from you now.
Anyone have any at this time?
NR. J. TI~M; 1400 Cummings Lane: I have one question here.
i;ssuming that the service went into effect and I did not connect to
the stub, would the annual service charge be assessed yearly?
MR. POPOVICH: You mean the $36.00? No, the $36.00 is paid
only by those who connect to the system but, I want to be very
careful, the village council does have the power to pass an
ordinance re'luiring that when sewer service is avai lable, that
within a certain period of time you hook up. Of course, they have
to get that department on a sound operating basis and since you're
paying for it, or paying for the assessment, you should hook up.
Usually most people hook up if they have problems. I don't know
whether the C0uncil has yet adopted an ordinance that affects
Improvement No. 1 but most Councils do adopt an ordinance requiring
you to hook up within two years so there is a time limit but during
that time you are not hooked up you do not pay the $36.001
Nfl. TIN.M: The feeling in my area is that if it were done it
would all be done at the time time unless compulsory and that
probably wouldn't be for a year or two.
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18
. tTIYOR ASHBACH: Anyone else?
MR. HERMAN DOEPN~q, 3401 No. Snelling: I feel I ;have
unplatted property. You're familiar with it, Mayor. And I was
wondering what is this line here. I see there's an 8 inch
main that seems to end opposite the number 1 there and I was
wondering whether that is based upon an actual survey - a
physical survey of the property.! hardly think so. I'm wondering
if the engineering company simply had a blue print and was guided
by the blue print rather than the actual physical lay of the land.
liR. ;:iHORT: I can assure you I was on your property with a
surveying instrument. Ne did most of our surveys from Mr.
Lametti's property and checked the elevations and all up on
.
to your property.
UR. DOEPNER : ';ihere did this 8 inch main end?
M1.. SHORT: Nhich home is yours?
MR. DOcPNER : Mine is the small cottage high on the hill.
M'l.. SHORT: How far from Lametti's?
M1.. DOEPNER : Three houses away.
/.it . SHOO T : .'Ire had anticipated coming to that low saddle
MR. DOEPNER : Hew far in from the lake?
.
/.~. SHORT: Approximately the location shown on the plan here.
MR. DOEPNER: Wouldn't that require the destruction of a large
number of trees? In acyuiring that easement would that be bought
from me?
~R. SHORT: That's a matter of policy from the Council. To
date the easements have been negotiated. I think in most cases a
waiver of trespass has been obtained.
~n. DOEPNER: Is my land regarded as unplatted?
..
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19
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lei?. SH:)RT: Your land is not platted into a platted lot.
It's a building site and you would have to pay frontage
which would be comensurate with the benefit you received from the
sewer. I'~ taling sort of law-like here when I say that assessing
has to be done on the basis of benefit to the property. If there
isn't benefit there can't be assessment but if you have ade4uate
property and benefit for more than one reason beside a building
site. then your benefit is greater than that on a small building
site. I can't tell you exactly what the assessment would be
but as far as immediate assessment is concerned, you would be
assessed the same as platted property for that portion of your
property that gets benefit from the sewer.
I~. DOEPNER: As I see here, this 8 inch main seems - you
say you come down to the low spot of the saddle so my house will
be probably I would say from that point probably laC feet from
the termination of the main.
MR. SHORT: AS you know, you have a number of terraces on
your property between the home and the lake and because of those
terraces and the location and trees we didn't feel it was proper
that the village should undertake to construct through the terraces
and damage them and have to pay for the damage but the sewer should
come on to your property so you could reasonably connect to it rather
than building it up to your house.
I~. DOEPNER: Then th4e terraces are really in front of my
house.
MR. SHORT: Extending north and south.
~fl. DOEPNEH: And the main here seems to end at the low part
of the saddle so that part of the property which is north of this
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20
. point is probably almost 200 feet that would not be subject to any
assessment.
MR. SHORT: Assessing is not always done simply by the bare
amount of sewer in front of the house. In other words, I think a good
example is the case where your sewer runs up along the block and
terminates at the last house. He may have 2C feet of sewer in front
where the neighbor may have 100 feet, both of them having 100 foot lots.
I think everyone will agree that his benefit , as long as the sewer
is extended far enough, is as great as the man next door, yet it
certainly wouldn't be equitable for the man to pay 10C feet of
frontage and the man next door 20.n think yours is a somewhat
similar condition.
"R. DOEPNER: I think despite the fact that this sewer main
ends about the middle of that low part of the saddle that I'm
still able to reach it from where my house is.
~H. SHORT: I would say this, that in making the assessment,
those facts have to be taken into account by the people making the
assessment. That at the time the assessment roll is published
and you have the opportunity to know the amount of money, if it
was your feeling that it was improper, that is your opportunity to
register ~r objections. Assessments like this are normally
reviewed with the Village Council so they may have an opportunity
to judge a number of similar problems so they can see the people
concerned are being treated equitably.
pRo DOePNER: At this time I would register in objection to
.
.
the proposal.
I/PYOR ASH 3rCH: Anyone else?
NIL, JOHN E. DAUBNEY, 1100 Pioneer Building, Saint Paul:
.
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21
.
I am appearing and speaking in favor of the proposed sewer
improvement. I am appearing as contract for deed purchaser of a
tract of land, part of which is located in the northeast corner of
proposed Improvement No.3. This I believe, under Pete's definition,
would be included as unplatted non abutting land. On an acreage
basis this would bear an assessment of approximately 16,aCO.
From our experience in development of lands personally and as an
attorney for other people in other villages in the suburban area,
I can advise the Council that not only is that an increment in
value but the hea lth problem is very important. To give you an
example, I appeared in some litigation regarding the Rose Vista
apartments in Roseville. A few years ago there was a health problem
there as a result of septic tanks and it became so acute that the
District Court of Ramsey County ordered the entire project
consisting of about 115 apartments - ordered that closed unless
they were able to receive a sewer connection within 60 days. We
got one extension of 90 days and the Court said that would be the
final extension. If we had not been able to receive the connection,
that entire project would have been closed down. With regard to
business and industry, which I know the village is interested in,
and a portion of the area I am speaking of is zoned at the present
time for industrial usage. I know from having contacted developers in
Roseville and other areas, these people are interested in having
access to Sanitary sewers even though not engaged in a business which
uses a great deal of water. The matter, from a business standpoint,
is important to any prospective business or industry locating
within the Village of Arden Hills. From a health standpoint it is
important to everyone and facing the prospective assessment of $6,000
.
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22
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althouoh we would have no immediate service I think it is
.
important enough to the property and speaking purely from a
selfish viewpoint I feel it is an asset to the property and good
for Arden lllills also. Thank you.
liPS. STE?HEN PRf..GER, 3320 North Dunlap: First of all,
can you tell me how rrany companies are asked to bid on the project?
~R. WILLIAM BANISTER, Banister Engineering Company: This is
advertised by law in the Construction Bulletin, which is a trade jour-
nal, and, of course, ~re is no guarantee as to how many will bid
but generally speaktng we can average it out that there would be
10 or 12 bidders which submit bids on the construction of the
project. That will vary. Sometimes it,'s as low as 7 <lnd sometimes
.
as high as 20.
MRS. PRAGER: Could you tell what this main lift station is
going to look like?
MR. SHORT: I would say at this time and would recommend at
this time that the structure should be constructed of concrete
below ground level and should be a brick veneer building above
grade; attractive building with a flush roof, projected overhang;
be landscaped and shOUld be an attractive building.
r.U,YOR ASHRACH: How large would that be?
MI. SHGRT: I would say about 12 by 12 or 12 by 16.
loR. ED HUSTAD, 1445 Forest Lane: I am for the project, and on
the last page of the brochure that we all got in the mail - under
paragraph 4 in the conclusion, "the cost is reasonable and compares
favorably with other metropolitan suburbs". I'd like a few brief
remarks on what the experience has been in other suburbs in Ramsey
County in the last four years or so.
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23
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~~. POPOVICH: It's impossible to give you the detail.
Let me say this, you must be careful in comparing apples with
apples and not a grapefruit with a prune. It depends on how a
community may do its financing. In Falcon Heights they had a
combination of taxes and front foot assessment. I've forgotten what
that was - about $9.00 a front foot - but they had a very healthy
tax increase of about 15 mills that went along with it. Here, you
have a pure $10.00 front foot without any tax increase. If you want
to compare this proposal with Falcon Heights, you see, you're trying
to compare purely a 100% assessment with a bombination $9. ~c and
.
the mill rate. I am convinced in Falcon Heights thatwhen you take
the ~ill rate increase into consideration it's more than the $10.00
you have here. In Rose~lle their first one ran 16.05 a front foot.
The seccnd assessment ran $6.25. The third, that's now under way,
is estimated around $7.00 with a milla)e increase also there that I
think on the first one was 1 mill, on the second it's 3 and I think
about 6 on the third one. Of course, this n:l.llage is something that
depends on what your assessed valuation might be. In Roseville
the improvements were large. In Shoreview, which incidentally
will be holding a hearing on their sanitary sewer improvement
program on March 29, it is estimated there that will run $10.50
a front foot. This is varied from a high, for example, of New Hope
where they put in sewer that ran as high as $13.00 a front foot all
the way down to $6.00 or $6.50 a front foot. It varies - one reason
is the construction situation you run into - the combination of
financing that you do - but this is in line with other munic~lities
that are 100% special assessment as this is.
Ml.. GERALD 3UETO<:, 1443 Forest Lane: Roger, can you give me a
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24
~ brief description of how deep your cuts are going to be around
through the streets?
MR. SHORT: I think I can do that best if I look at this map
over here rather than the general one. Do you have any ~articular
point in mind, W~. Buetow?
MR. BUETOW: Nothing particular.
MR. SHORT: The sewers i~ the area from present Hamline Avenue
east in most instances, are going to run in depth from 12 or 13
feet deep down to a minimum depth of perhaps 7 feet. There are a
few points where there are low lake shore properties where the
sewers will run as far as 14 feet in that area. Along Hamline
Avenue, the sewers probably are going to run somewhere between
8 and 12 feet as is common in most sanitary sewer construction.
~ Sewers are built normally to serve the basements and most
basements are in the ground on normal building sites approximately
5~ to 6 feet although it may be as much as 8 feet so you reco9nize
to construct sewers deep enough it has to have a depth of about
8 feet. Jhere you are a flat property you have to start low to
reach the extremities, then you may get in flat ground to 14 or
15 feet. There are greater depths at some points - here for
instance on Arden Place where there are some low lying houses the
depths are going to be considerable. Again on Siems Court where some
of the houses on the east side lay quite low that's going to be a
depth of 16 or 17 feet. j
MR. BUETO~: To be more specific, how about Forest Lane and
3Yiles Lane. The reason I ask that is it's rater hilly in that
terrain.
MR. SHORT: On Forest Lane and Skiles Lane - my recollection
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25
.
.
without looking at the profiles, and I don't remember exactly -
is that it isn't too bad there because the sewer on Forest Lane
for instance would run from Snelling do~n to Glen Arden Road which is
by and large down hill most of the way although there are some humps
in it. On Skiles Lane, and I take it you're speaking of between
Hamline and Snelling, the sewer meets in the middle there between
Glen Arden Court and Glen Arden Road and flows both firections from
that high point.
MR. BUSTaH: You sayan average of about 12 feet?
MR. SHORT: The average depth would be probably a little
less than 12 feet. I don't have the profiles here to examine for
each foot on each of these streets but I don't recall off hand any
specific difficult points in those places. I think there is one
low house that would probably gain service off Glen Arden Road
which 'Nould be deep.
MR. BUETOW: Are you going to have some tremendously deep
cuts like on the west side of Midland Hills?
MH. SHORT: No. That wascver 30 feet and there aren't any
like that in this improvement.
MR. AL OLEN, 3270 No. Hamline: I have looked at the sewer
project with rather mixed emotions but if I have to make a stand I
might as well say I'm opposed to it I guess probably because it
touches my pocket book. I would like to ask this question and maybe
IAr. Popovich maybe in his last sentence before he sat down may have
answered it but I think this meeting of this type gives everyone an
opportunity to say whether they're for it or opposed to it and yet
there are a limited number of people who will stand up and say they
are or are not against it and I'm wondering why we're spending this
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26
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kind of money. It won't be possible for each individual to
have a vote on this sort of think. I'm wondering if this is
really representation when you have four-fifths of the Council
pass on something that might cost me $3,000.
~R. POPOVICH: There is no answer except that elections are
never held, on them. You can't tell me one village that ever voted
on a sanitary sewer system.
~'F.. OLLON: 'lie had one vote on this and it was voted down.
VR. ?O?OVICH: That was on a bond issue for levying over
the entire village and making it a full faith General Obligation
Bond. None of this is general obligation. this is all special
assessment. hhere you have special assessment it's done this way.
.
The only other utilities thing you vote on is water because on that
the law reyuires that you must vote. However, the various interim
committees that are studying it are going to recommend to the
next legislature that you don't even vote on water - that you do
the same as all other improvements. This is local improvement code
and sewers, parks, playgrounds, tree cutting, streets going in,
burbing, black topping are all done under the local improvement
code without an election.
~R. J0HNRYSGAARD: 1744 No. Pascal:
I had one comment with
respect to the amparisons given here before. The comparisons in
cost between Falcon Heights, which incidentally I participated in
and paid at that time, and the Roseville figures. There was a
vast difference I believe in the specifications regarding those
... two jobs iosofar as the back filling and street maintenance. In
Falcon Heights the streets were re-built following the completion of
the sewer project.
NR. SHORT: There is no estimate of cost included for street
.
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27
resurfacing.
wR. RYSGApRD: This is set up as the same specs as Rosevi11e -
NR. SHORT: There are no specs at this time but as was the
case in Iwprovement Nc. 1 and the hearing for Number 2, there is
no street surfacing included within the estimated costs.
IIR. POPOVICH: This is the very statement I made before.
It's hard to compare unless you're comparing the same thing. You're
right on that because you have to know what's included in a project
to compare. These other villages are all doing the same thing here.
They are not putting in permanent street repair because it's foolish
to do it because you know some time you may have water. Falcon
Heights had water so it made sense for them to permanently resurface
the streets but in a situation like this you have to be careful because
there mi3ht be other improvements coming along.
~R. PYSGAARD: Falcon Heights installation included stubs
to the property line so there was not the necessity to ever dig
in:o the streets for sewer construction.
IIR. POPUVICH: So does this.
hR. BpNISTER: The stubs here to the property line are included.
It's pretty much generally accepted that the street repair or street
surfacing is going tom more expensive. It's going to cost the
property owners or village more if it's done by the sewer contractor
if done as part of the sewer job because in spite of all of the
compaction that's tried - and Falcon He ights experienced th is if
you were there - there is still some settling afterwards and you
do not gain the street surface done immediately afterwards that
would be gained or obtained if you were to wait a year or two.
Secondly, the type of work is different and the contractor - the
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28
.
sewer contractor that would do the sewer construction probably
will sublet the street construction to somebody else and there is
an additional handling charge on it so there are certain things
that it is felt that it's cheaper to do it as two separate items
at t~o separate times and in this case with some of your streets
being just~n oiled surface there would be substantial to gain
by wa it i ng .
~R. SHORT: Another fact to compare Falcon Heights and Arden
Hills. Arden Hills is more clay than sand. Sand will remain
relatively stable after the work is completed whereas you can
pack clay until the cows come home and still following a frost
it will tend to soften up so as ~I. Popovich said it's hard to
compare one with another on all conditions because conditions are
just different as to soil and other things.
MP.S. BILL WOLF, 3170 No. Hamline: I was wondering what the
comparison was of our improvements on Number 1 and 2 as compared
with this estimate on 3. ahat the footage costs are.
NAYOR ASHBACH: I know the estimate for Improvement No. 1 was
$12.50 a frent foot. It came out cheaper than that. That has not
been worked out yet.
~R. POPOVICH: In Number 1 it was $12.60 a front foot and Nc. 2
it was $10.50 a front foot sc we're a little less here. The reason
for it in Improvement No. I, it was such a small ;:>roject and yet
you had certain costs involved irrespective of the number of homes.
~R. SHORT: I think the principal reason for the difference -
~RS. ~OLF: I meant between $120,000 and $600,000.
hR. SHORT: Because of the size of the improvement.
NAYOR ASHBACH: Any other questions?
.
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29
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1.'R. FRi:;."D,i. M:lHL, 1580 No. Griggs, Roseville: I'm for the
sewer system because I'm for something that I think will protect
our water supply - our ground water supply - and I feel that
there is a possibility that these septic tanks might be endangering
our ground water supply. Just today I was reading something here
that I thought I might pass slong to you. Just a couple of words
here. A committee in New York State - by the way they have a lot
of problems with contaminated ground water in New York State so
that got a committee together out there to study the problem. In
1957 this committee, in its report, said the follo'Ning: It is
agreed by sanitary and public engineering profession that the only
satisfactory way that the disposing of domestic sewage in the modern
community is by means of public sewers. In the Health Department we
receive plats for approval with septic tank installations and in
278 cases approved them although we know private sewage disposal
systems, regardless of condition, is a temporary condition which
only postpones the development of the ultimate solution which is
public sewers. This committee is definitely opposed to septic
tank installations in realty subdivisions built up or potentially
built up areas regardless of soil and ground water conditions.
Septic tanks should be reserved for use in predominantly rural
areas. Another paper by the American Society of Civil Engineers
states that as population density approaches one and a half persons
per acre the need for public seNage is recognized. It is also
stated in another public report that sewers are financially feasible
when population density is ') persons per acre. My int.rest is, as I
said, in protecting our ground water resources. I'm a sanitary engineer
W~YOR ASHSACH: Are ;you employed by the Banister Engineering Co.?
.
.
.
.
.
.
3C
hR. SHCmT: No sir.
DR. JGHAN S. SEKHON, 1575 Edgewater Avenue: I was very
much interested in the last gentleman's remarks and I think I
won't have to say too much except I have letters here from
residents of Arden Hills 2 and they are all for the sewer project,
the sooner the better they say and here is one of them - "I
don't think you realize that Arden Hills 2 is conteminating Lake
Johanna. You have very bas soil conditions. The sewer runs on
the ground and goes under Glenarden Road into that open space
behind Cummings Lane that comes into Lake Johanna. I had a
State BOi;rd of Health man,Mr. Johnson, take samples and it's very
important to us that live on Lake Johanna that we be not subjected
to contaminated water coming from Arden Hills 2." On Ingerson's
property the water table is too high. They can't drain anything
in there and they have a lot of trouble building homes in that property.
Arden Hills 1 they have had trouble too and I have had a lot of
reports. Right now I got word from a man living between County
Road F and G on Hamline. He wants me to stop tomorrow to see him.
He's a farmer and has two acres. One of the neighbors is draining
the sewage on to his property so you see it's coming up to the
farmers too. They are complaining that sewer is being drained
out and it's not sanitary. I think we must all realize it's expensive.
I had a cqnnection made from the stub to the house which was 150 feet.
Prices are going up but you can't stop progress.
1\'R. FRANK C. HODGSON, 1484 Skiles Lane: I'm about 14 feet above
the proposed sewer. I suppose the price is pretty stiff but as against
an epidemic it might seem pretty cheap. I'd like to make an inquiry.
To what extent, if any, is there evidence of any water contamination
in the area?
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31
.
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wH. BANISTER: Frank, to answer your question specifically,
and I reviewed this as recently as this afternoon with the
State Board of Health - there are no known cases of pollution
of individual wells from sewage in Arden Hills. Now" before that
simple statement is left at rest, no tests have been made, to carry
it a little bit further. The State Board of Health has not made tests
and would not do it on a wholesale basis or come into the Village
of Arden Hills until specifically requested by the Village Council
and I believe that has not been done. To carry your statement a
little farther - and these are figures I am not vouching for the
accuracy of them, I am only repeating them given to me by the
State Board of Hea 1 t h. 28 munic ipali ties in the surround ing area
have been tested and of those, on a mathematical projection it is
estimated that the wells tested would serve, if projected, 52,000
individual homes. 50% of those have shown some evidence of
sewage chern icals and I do not say,and I repeat so this is not a
scare or panic, please do not misunderstand - the mere presence
of the sewage chemicals in itself does not mean that they are
polluted or unsafe. It is an indication of a trend. Does that
answer your ~uestion?
DR. cl),i/,RD F. iiALSH. 1401 Forest Lane: I am for the project.
I live on a street of perhaps 11 or 12 homes and of that number I
would venture to say there are 7 or 8 that are having trouble all the
way from having their cesspools pumped to running out in the street.
I think that may be typical of any street and I think once an
individual has to have a cesspool pumped I think he's having trouble.
MR. THOWAS LA NASA, 3153 Shoreline Lane: Is the~keshore property
there going to be serviced completely? Jensen Avenue right there.
.
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32
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gp'. SHORT: One house there lays to the north - northerly end
of Jensen that lays considerably below the street.
~R. LA NASA: That's probably me.
I.R. SHORT: That is shown to receive first floor draina~e
only. I believe your home lays some ten feet below the street
grade. Is that right?
VR.
L! NN,A: About that.
~~
I l\.
SHeRI: It was our recommendation and our conclusion after
studying the costs that it would be better to provide first floor
drainage for that home with a reduced assessment than to recommend
to the Council that the entire area should face the cost of going
deep enough to provide basement drain for one home so located.
~R. LA NASA: Is there a possibility of a sump pump to pick
. up the sewage?
ThR. SHORT: ~hat do you have on your lower level - any kitchens?
MR. LA NASA: No.
M~. BANISTER: Toilet?
'$,. LA NASA: I have a toilet about 4 feet lower than the area
yo~e talking about.
VR. SHORT: Lower than the first floor?
1m. L/, Ni,\SA: Yes.
;;TI. SHORT: I be 1 ieve that could be taken care of with a
shallo',,! connection. As far as your lower floor is concerned for
floor water and if it's only wash water, it would be my recommendation
you should install a sump pump as is done in many homes and pump
it up to your sewer connection from that point. If you have a kitchen
.
then any type of enclosed sump pump which wold be odor free is quite
expensive. It would be a matter of several hundred dollars.
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33
. MAYOR ASHBACH: If you had said J. C. we would have had to
cut the question off of the air.
~R. D. W. KOSTOHRVZ, 1405 W. Arden Place. I'd like to be
recorded as being in favor of the proposed project. I'd like to
comment that we have lived in the village since 1952, originally
at 1411 Arden Place. At that residence we had a cesspool that
wa s inadequate. In 1956 we moved into our present d"e 11in9 - a
new home - and we put in what we thought was an adequate drain
field recommended to take care of our problem. It's still
inade'iuate.
W~YOR ASHBACH: I'll ask the Clerk to read a letter that the
Council received tonight. Someone couldn't be here.
ms. LORRAINE STR(WQUIST, Village Cled.: (The following
are copies of the letters directed to the Village Council and
-read by the Vi llage Clerk.)
.
.
.
.
.
1400 Skiles Lane
St. Paul 12, Vinn.
February 24, 1960
Vi llage Council
Villa~e of Arden Hills
RalT'sey County
~tate of Minnesota
Gentlemen:
.
It "~Jill not be possible for /;,rs. Du Bois and me to be
present at your meetin~ this evenin], but we would
like to ]0 on record of bein9 very IT'uch in favor of
the 3anitary Sewer I~provement No.3.
I;:y ONn experience as a trustee on the Deephaven Vi llage
Council has led me to believe that you will no: hear
frorr lTany of the reopIe who are interested in the passage
of this proposed measure. Too IT'any times people take it
for granted. Those who may be in minority will be in at-
tendance and with wild enthusiasm shout their opposition.
Vnow that we will very much appreciate your effort in
making the sewer improvement an actuality.
Yours very truly,
/s/ Gene Du 80is
E3D:C'3
.
.
.
.
CuP V
13C6 Skiles Lane
St. Qaul 12, Minn.
February 24, IS ,:)
,~. and rrs. Frank C. Hodgson
1.,1:4 :::jr i les Lane
St. Paul 12, Minn.
:::'ear folks:
.
Please convey to Sr. Sekhon and to any others whom
it may concern, the fact of 1:'y support of the proposed
sanitary sewer development in this part of Arden Hills.
I believe the oroject to be necessary and of such immediate
i~portance that nc more time should be lost. The cost
of the develop~ent, while high, does not appear to be
beyond reason, and probably is considerably less than
the eventual cost of failure to act.
~hen I canvassed our neighborhood sounding out
sentiment on this issue, my neighbors, ~r. Roy Paulson
and Dr. 'm. Hynan, both assured me of their support
of the sanitary se~er Froposal as outlined then.
/s/ Donald E. Cadwell
.
.
.
.
COP :Y
February 10, 1960
Dear Dr. sekon,
I will be out of the city for a short time, so'
would like to register my vote as to the sewer in
Mden Hills #2.
I am in f~or of the sewer and would like it as soon
as possible.
Thank you,
.
/s/ V,rr. F. Hynan
1385 Skiles Lane
.
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34
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r,RS. FRI.NJ< C. HODGSON, 1404 Skiles Lane: IJ.ay we register
our vote in favor of the project and then leave?
],R. HODGSON: The next question is, when are we going to
get water?
~~YOR ASHBACH: Any other questions?
Mi. FRED M. COATES, 1170 TUler Lane: 1-10" soon can we get
started on this?
WAYOR ASHBACH: There are a lot of things to be done between
now and then.
~R. COATES: I don't have any trouble at all but I still think
it will be a good thing and I think the sooner we get started
and get the streets - they'll be dug up - and get them back in
shape the better it will be.
~'H. CDi;IN PETERSON, 3609 N' . Pascal: I'm Victor ':;eber's neighbor.
I'm thoroughly in favor of the sewer but one thing I would like to
say to the Council that if they are going to have all these
connections made, not to have them by these fly-by-nighters but by
a licensed plumbing contractor. I'll go on record on that.
NAYOR ASHBACH: Do you work for Axel Newman?
MR. PETERSON I've seen too much of it.
DR. HM. F. HYNAN, 1385 Skiles Lane: I'm in favor of it as we
wrote. I would like to ask when these things are connected if
you have your cesspool in the back must you go through your basement?
MAYOR ASHBACH: I think I'll have Nx. Kennedy answer that
because he worked on that ordinance.
~R. KENNeDY, Village Council member: The problem there is
which is less expensive. The ordinance provides that you can't have
more than two curves of not more than 45 degrees each in your line
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without a clean out. That's to protect you against a cheap job
to start with and a lot of trouble afterwhile. When you get to
going around the house and building these curves and clean outs
and the digging and a lot of pipe, perhaps it's cheaper to go right
through the basement, and that would be as Mr. P0povich pointed
out, the individual connection is entirely up to the 'property owner
on his individual contract with the man that's going to do the work
and I expect he wi 11 go into the detail s at that time and see
which is going to be the cheaper. So far my information has been
that there are many situations when it's actually cheaper to go
back through the basement floor than the curves and clean outs.
~~YOR ASHBACH: Any other questions or comments?
MR. J. TIMM, 1400 Cudmings: I don't know if I went on
record but at this time I would like to say I am in favor of the
proposed project.
~R. L. B. STEVENSON, 3461 ~iems Court: I would like to know
at what approximate date we could expect the sewers to be installed.
~R. BANISTER: To answer your question, that, of course, is a
tough one and some of it is going to depend a little bit on procedure
of the Council. They have to take a position before construction
could be underway. The plans and specifications would have to be
completed. It is possible that part of the area rright have service
in the year of 1960. I would hesitate to pro~ise service for
196C. I think some of the area could get it but it's questionable
as to whether all of it could. The Council has within six months
of this date to order the improvement in and if the Council
waited 6 months before ordering it in then plans and specifications
being prepared after that, there would be no construction in 1960.
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. Again, those are some decisions that must be made by the Council.
~~YOR ASHBACH: I might point out also that under this method
of procedure by Council initiative it requires a four-fifths vote
by the Council to go ahead. At that time they will ask the engineers
to take bids. When the Council receives bids - the Council receives
them _ they review the bids and if it-appears that they're
excessive _ more than what we anticipated - the Council still has
the prerogative of not going ahead. \'ie can revise and then take
new bids. A lot of people have the mistaken idea that once bids are
taken that you must proceed but the Council does not have to proceed
if they're higher than what they think are reasonable.
Yr.. HAmW SKILDEN, f'rden Place: I'd like to go on record as
being very much in favor of the proposed project and hope the
Council sees fit to go along with it.
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IR. JOHN RYSGAARD: I'd like to draw one comparison that
Roger mentioned before, in comparing Falcon Heights to this area
when he spoke of the soil conditions there being ideally suited
for reconstruction of the streets. The people thought soil conditions
were ideally suited for cesspools and at the hearing held there, there
were a lot of people that said we don't need sewers - we have all
sand and gravel here. Nevertheless when the program went through
you couldn't get enough installers in there to keep up with the
program in getting the hook ups to the homes and I think that if
you would take a poll in Falcon Heights today you would find that
99;6 of the people are fully cognizant of the value of the sewer not
only for the value dof hooking up but for the value of the property
in the neighborhood itself and I think that would be magnified in an
area like this where you have the clay.
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~R. E. J. CAMP, 3470 Siems Court: I want to register myself
in favor of the proposal and I have one 4uestion to ask. ,~'e have
one of those odd shaped lots that measures 120 feet in the front
and 57 in the back. Do you have some general idea of what kind
of an adjustment they make. Do you go on the area on that or what 7
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~~. SHORT: I'll try to answer it. It's hard to project ahead
as to what an assessment roll might consist of that might be prepared
six months or a year from now. The lots in your area are of fairly
standard size, are they, with the exception of yours, or are they
all -
MR. CAMP: Siems Court cuts in at an angle and gives us 120
feet along the road.
MR. SHORT: Frequently, in sewer assessing the width of the
lot at the set back point or at the front of the house may be
utilized as frontage rather than the frontage at the street. You
get a narrow pie shaped lot and may have practically no frontage.
By using either the circular or the split width of the lot -
that's one way of arriving at it. It also, of course, applies
with a lot that's narrow in back - or you may averdse the lot.
H you're in with a group of lots that are all lOCi foot lots and
youre the only irregular one, it would be reasonable to assume
that your assessment should be approximately the same so it's a
measure of the benefit where the assessment is e4uitable with other
properties receiving similar benefit. It can't be answered
specifically without studying them out.
DR. BRADLEY W. KUSSKE, 1179 Tiller Lane: I would like to
register my vete as being lO~~ in favor of the sewer project.
MAYOR ASHBACH: Are you the gentleman that called me the
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other day?
DR. YUbSKc: Yes.
~AYCF. ASHBACH: I see Leon Sabine walked in. That reminds
me of a story. It seems that the father had a boy in the fifth
grade and he was discussing what kind of teaching he had been
Jetting at school and didn't think he was learning anything so
he told the teacher I want to as~ the class some'questions. He
said, who knocked nown the ''-;alls of Jericho? The c lass sat there
and buzzed for a vl/hile and a fellow in the back said, I didn't
do it.
The father was a little disGusted so he went to the
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the ,ialls of Jericho and Johnny Jones dold me he didn't do it.
The principal said, don't get excited. I know Jchnny Jenes pretty
well and his parents. If he said he didn't do it, he didn' do it.
The father wasn't satisfied with that so he went to the Superintendent.
He told the Superintendent, I asked the class, I asked the principal,
now I want to ask you who knocked dOVln teNal h of Jericho, and the
Superintendent said, now don't get excited. Let's not make a
federal case out of this. Submit a claim and we'll pay it.
Are there any further questions?
I want to thank you for comin9 on behalf of the Council and
the Council will take the matter under advisement. I don't know
whether they will do anything tonight or wait until the next
meeting and think about it for a while but I do want to thank you
for coming out and ~iving us your attention and ideas on this
~ ?roposed improvement.
. . I'
prlnclpa s
office.
He said, all I did was ask who knocked down
..... The ~eeting adjourned at 9:42 P.M......
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Extract of Minutes of M~eeting
of the Village Council of
the Village of ~rden Hills
Ramsey County, Minnesota
Held
Pursuant tc due call and notice thereof, a j/ <c ,c ,"" '
,
meeting of the Village Council cf the Village cf,Ar~&n Hills,
0n the
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duly held at the Village Hall in said village
,,) , /
day of ~f,i .{~- , 19J;;.L. at Y C! o'clock P.M.
Minnosota was
k The fopowing momb~rs were prase;')'!::
"1'- ,~~. --. ..,J~(..~..-; -I. -~ ''-'-' "'-'.
arid the'following/were "bsnet:'-o""
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Mso present at the meeting .....re, /,
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The Mayor announced that the meeting was calle<! for the
purpose of consider,lng Sanitary Sewer kprovement No. ;t and
Nhether cr n:>t the improv';'!illltnt shculd be ordered.
!",fter due ccoiider..tion there\)f. M'!rnber {<~C12(-/-,~_
the adoption of the following resolution:
A RESOLUTION URDERING SANIT.M\Y '';E?iER IMPROVEMENT
;,:',. 2. ,\ND DIRECTING nRE!)."RATION OF FINAL PLA~1:5.
moved
-e
V~EF,EAS a resolution of ths Village Council adopted the
14th day of ~ugust, 1959. fiAed a d..te fer a hearing on the
;~ropcsed sanitary sewer improvement generally in the following
. described areal
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Commencing at a point on the south line of the Village
of Arden Hills, said point being the ~w Corner of the
E!~ of theE}<.l of Section 33. T .30, R.23; thence
northerly along the west 11l'\e of &aid E)~ of E'2 to the
north line of said Section 33: thence northerly along
the west line of the SEl-'..i of the SE~~ of See;. 28,
T. 30, R. 23" approximately 6flO feet to the centerline
c{the Minneapolis, St. PaulQnd Sault Ste. Marie
~ailway Company's right-of-way; thence westerly along
the centerline of said Minneapolis, st. Paul, ~ Sault
Ste. Marie Railway Company's right-of-way approXimately
2,680 feet toa point on the eut line of the h~lI of the
\~ of sa~ Section 28; thence southerly alon9 said
east line of sdd w~ of Vi~ approximately 149 feet to
the south line of laid Section 28; thence southerly
along the east line of thti W~ of the N',N of said
Sec. 33, approximately 2,640 feet: thence westerly
along the south line of said wi!! of NW'i, approximatelY
1,341 feet to the west line of said ~ection 33;
thence southerly along the west line of said ~ction 33,
approximately 2,615 feet to the sw Corner of said
Section 33: thence easterly aloog the south line of
said Sec. 33 approximately 3,975 feet to the point of
beginning
AND ViHEREAS all property owners whose property is 1iabllt to be
assessed for the making of this improvement were given ten days
published notice cf the Council hearingthrough weekly pUblications
of the required notice and the hearing was held and the property
owners were heard hereon as of that date, it being the 20th day
of October, 195',
N(!1i mEREFORE. BE IT RESOLVED By the Council of the Village
e! Arden Hills as fellows:
1. It is hereby determined that it is necessary and fer the
best interests of the Village and the owners of the property
especially benefited that the sanitary sewer imp~ovement 1s hereby
ordered as proposed in the Council Resolution adopted August 14,
1959, except, however, that the extent of said improvement "and
the foregoing district boundaries may be reduced after detailed
surveys necessary for the preparation of final plans and
specifications may indicate the desirability thereof in view of
additional subdivisions and grading of areas since the date of the
criginal survey. made for the preliminary report, so as to provide a
sanitary sewer system as described in &~id notice for the territory
described in said notice as follows:
COlllll8ncingat a point on the south 11ne of the Village
of Arden Hills, said pcint being the sw corner of the
E>:1 of the Iii;; of Section 33, T. 30, R. 23: thence
northerly along the west 11ne of said !~ of El~ to the
north 11ne of said Section 33: thence northerly along
the west line of the SE\<1 of the SE'-' of See. 26.
T. 3D, R. 23, approximately 670 {eetto the centerline
of the MiMUpoli$, St. Paul and Sault St.. Marie
Railway Company's right-of-way; thencewes,terly along
the centerline of said MiMeapolis, st. Paul, & Jault
Ste. Marie Railway Company's right-of-way approximately
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2,680 feet to a point on tn. ...t 11rut of the WlS,of the
~, Of, s,a1.d Section 28,thenc, . "ou,thedY, alOtlg, ",1.d
e..t11neof $a1dW~ of ~ approximately 149 feet to
the 'Quth 11ne of. said Section 28; thence southerly
along the east line of the,~ of the NW~ of sa1d
Sec. 33..pprox1mately2,640 feeta thence~.terly
along the south line of sald. ~ of NW~ approximately
1.342 feet to the west line of ,aid Section 33;
thence loutherly alol'l9the weat line of suo seetion 33.
approxiroetely 2,61~ feet to theSw Cerner of sald
~ection 33; thence e.sterly along the lo~th line of
uid 58C. 33 approxilll4tely3.9~ feettc the point of
beginning.
2. Said improv.~nt shall hereafter be designated.. Sanitary
Sewer Illprovelllent No.2.
~. Banillbr EnglOHr1ng Company of St. 1'au1. MinneacU is
hereby dedgnated at:i the Wl91neerfor this improvement and theylhall
prepare final plans and specifications forth. lIl;3king of such ,
improvement and for~e calling of construction bios ther.on.
The motion for the adption of the foregolng resolution was duly
seconded by Mltmber K.c-, .._;,,~_l--i
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theteon',the following. veted.!n hvorthereofl
(\r: i'~V/""-"'" }.-, ;ff--j.~._--,_~_~rc:(~---;;,>; '(,,-:-.c-<"-__ ',. .
and the'f' ollowing voted a9a~6t I Yi._/?'__C'
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Upon vote beingtak.n
L.....""--/.~-(,- ;_-c:.i-, L":"7':-~-4."'~-:"<"'~
WHERi.:WYN said rftsclut1t\n wudee18red duly pll6..dand adopted.
,_,,__~....._;;. ._'! r
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STATE OF MINNESOTA
COUNTY OF RAMSEY
VILLAGE OFAROEN HILLS
I 55
I, the undersigned. b,lng the duly qualified and acting Clerk
of the Village of Arden HIUs. do hereby certify that I have compared
the attached and foregoing extract of minutes of aJ;..?..(:-('-r.c- meeting
of the Village Council of said villa;e held on) (5- .:' J 1,7' [, {'
.
with the original thereof on fUe in my office, and the same is a full
and true and co~pletetranscrlpt thereof so far as the same relates
to Sanitary Sewer Improvel'/l8nt No.2.
NITIlESS ~~ HAND officially as such Clerk and the corporate
seal of said Village this
<,"\
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.:....,
-r'-~,-?-,t' _co ~'.^:;':''''f-'
19~.
day of
~'- ,', ., . ,;:/ <?;c: '," __
, , ..- .,,' ,-" '."" "J'" .n~'.;;.'.', (
,- ' Hage Clerk ". 7 ',--
Village of Arden Hills
(SEt,L)