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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-07-24-SWS Request for Special City Council Work Session A special meeting may be called by the Mayor or by any two Councilmembers. Reason for meeting: 1. Public Inquiries/Informational 2. Response to Public Inquiries 3. Agenda Items A. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion 4. Council/Staff Comments Adjourn Requested Date: 11/07/2024 Requested time: 5:30 pm Open meeting X Closed meeting Signature of person(s) making request: 11/01/2024 Mayor or Council Member Date / / Council Member Date -This section to be completed by City staff- Date received: 11/01/2024 Date meeting to be held: 11/07/2024 Time of meeting: 5:30 pm Location: City Hall All necessary posting and notices have been completed. 11/01/2024 Signature of City Clerk Date City of Arden Hills ▪1245 West Highway 96 ▪ Arden Hills Minnesota 55112 Phone 651.792.7800 ▪ Fax 651.634.5137 ▪ www.cityofardenhills.org ILLS aA_qLH Approved: December 9, 2024 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION NOVEMBBR7,2024 5:30 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor David Grant called to order the City Council Special Work Session at 5:30 p.m. Present:Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Tom Fabel, Brenda Holden, Tena Monson and Emily Rousseau Absent: None Also present: Interim City Administrator Jessica Jagoe; Public Works Director/City Engineer David Swearingen; and Deputy Clerk Jen Estling 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL None. 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None. 3. AGENDA ITEMS A. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion Interim City Administrator Jagoe summarized that at a Special Work Session on October 15, 2024 Cotncil directed Stacie Kvilvang to reach out to the developer Alatus to redline the 2022 Term Sheet. Council also directed Staff to schedule the Special Work Session for tonight to discuss the Civic Center and the Parks MOU. She has provided some document agreements and background of those previous discussions. Interim City Administrator Jagoe thought Council could begin with the discussion regarding the 2022 Term Sheet redlines and discuss next steps. Then segway into the Civic Site and Parks MOU individually. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COTINCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2024 Interim City Administrator Jagoe asked Stacie Kvilvang to highlight information regarding the redlined Term Sheet or any conversations with Alatus. Stacie Kvilvang said there were no significant changes. She said it's been updated with today's terms based on other actions that the JDA and Council have made. The changes are in the number of total units and the number of affordable units. There isn't a lot of difference between this and what was agreed to in2022. One of the clarifiers is how we will pay for public improvernents. Under the JPA the City is required to pay for the utilities under the spine road and the water tower. The JPA stated we have the option to special assess those improvements. The county was concerned about that before because they were holding the land and didn't want to have to pay those assessments if the land didn't sell. Now the County is looking to have Alatus buy the land outright. Alatus put in a clarification that they are requesting the City to issue 429 Assessment Bonds for those improvements and they would sign a waiver of petition for those. They would pay 100% of the debt service on those with special assessments. That is the prefened method of payment because it is the least risk to the City. Stacie Kvilvang said the only clarifier that they don't have is to potentially request the City issue 429 Assessment Bonds for the private roads and utilities in the single-family neighborhoods and possibly town center. This is not an atypical request. It is 100% assessed and there is no risk to the City. The developer would like to revisit the Parks MOU and the civic space. Things may have changed for parks and they want to make sure the best plan for the City is created. The developer is required to pay for the improvements up front and they get reimbursed through the Park Dedication Fees as they are paid at the time of the building permit. They also want to check in on the option for the civic space. The agreement states the City will retain it. Recent discussions indicate the same. They just want to revisit it to make sure the terms still stand and make sense. The TIF request didn't change. Councilmember Holden said the Public Works facility isn't on there. That's over $2 million. Some maintenance items aren't on there and she wants to make sure the City won't be on the hook for those things. She said just because a 429 bond is assessed on a property, doesn't mean it will be paid for. Stacie Kvilvang said Alatus had previously agreed to pay for the Public Works facility. That was a different financing time. What they put in there is that they are open to paying for that but want to have discussion depending on what the structure is for their deal with the County. So, it's still on the table. Councilmember Holden said the City is last. She wanted clarification that because the developer made a deal with the County they will just say too bad to the City and that they aren't going to pay for it. Stacie Kvilvang said the old deal with the County was that the County was going to hold the land and Alatus would take it down in chunks. With the new agreement Alatus will have to purchase the site for $40-$50 million. That changes their financing parameters for everything. Additionally, the interest rate environment has changed since 2022. They aren't saying yes or no, they are saying they want to see how everything comes together and figure it out. Stacie Kvilvang said once the 429 Assessments are issued in the waiver of petition, the assessments go to the County and they are assessed to the property. That will happen when Alatus ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COLTNCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2024 acquires the land. When they pay their property taxes in May and October, they will be paying the assessments. Councilmember Holden said all of the land will be in the LLC's name. Stacie Kvilvang confirmed. Councilmember Holden said that LLC is out of Delaware, and they can get out at any time. Stacie Kvilvang said they may not be out of Delaware. They can purchase under any LLC. Kori Land said the assessments won't go away. They stay with the land. Regardless if the LLC goes bankrupt or not, those assessments will have to be paid. If they aren't paid the land will be tax forfeited. Councilmember Rousseau asked about the $16.33 million estimated cost of the assessments. She wonders what that means for individuals moving into the community. Stacie Kvilvang said it isn't a direct impact to the homeowners. Those assessments will be assessed to the single family residential; commercial properties and apartments can bear more cost. Everyone will be assessed a portion. Those assessments are paid at the time the land is purchased. If a single-family developer buys l0 acres, they will pay a portion of the assessments. The ones that will keep the assessments over time are the commercial. Those costs are typically passed on to the tenants. Councilmember Rousseau asked about the HOA. She wonders how they are set up. She has heard concerns that HOA can hand out any penalty and there are some financers that will sell your townhome if you are in default and the homeowner doesn't get the equity back. She asked if there is any way to protect residents from predatory HOA agreements. Kori Land said Cities typically stay out of HOA documents. They are entered into by the developer and the development. They set up their own documents and they must be generic enough to encourage people to want to buy into the particular development, or they just won't buy there. It self-regulates because they can't gouge people. Stacie Kvilvang agreed the City should stay out of those discussions. She thinks the example Councilmember Rousseau brought up is more likely in a townhome development. Mayor Grant asked Stacie Kvilvang that when she says very little has changed from the2022 Term Sheet, he wondered if that meant the financials have not changed. Stacie Kvilvang said she doesn't think the financials have changed. Mayor Grant said they took out 32 acres of commercial and added residential. He asked how that didn't change the financials. Stacie Kvilvang said things have not changed significantly. Values have gone up and tax rates maybe are down. The bottom lines are there. We will continue to update accordingly based on what we know is going to be built. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2O24 Councilmember Fabel asked about the timing in the option agreement for the purchase of the civic land. It states that if the City exercises the option to buy in the first two years, it will cost the City $1. However, between two years and five years, the City would pay 50o/o of the cost. If it's after five years the City would pay 100Yo of the value. He doesn't understand why it was structured like that. Stacie Kvilvang said that was the agreement with the County for the timing of the takedown. They were going to be charging a market rate for the lot. Now Alatus' proforma has $0 as revenue for the civic site. Even though it is written that way, the cost will always be $ l. Mayor Grant said that would explain the comment that says it will be transferred to the City at no cost with no revisionary ownership. Stacie Kvilvang said the County didn't want the City to get the land for cheap and then go sell it to Bob Lux and the City make money when they paid $1. Mayor Grant said it does specifu that it needs to be used for public use and reserves the right for the County to work with Bob Lux as well as TIF on development of the property. If we do that, Bob Lux will build the associated infrastructure, including parking and access to any facility that is built. Councilmember Holden said Bob Lux backed out on the parking. At one time he was going to give us free parking and then it was reduced to l0 slots. Mayor Grant asked if it was in the May 22 agreement. Stacie Kvilvang said before they were going to do parking under all the buildings and they were going to be connected. That is not the plan anymore. The individual buildings will have the traditional underground parking. Mayor Grant thought the parking was still on the Term Sheet. Stacie Kvilvang said that is not in there. That would have to be discussed and decided upon. If the plan is to build a one-story civic space that the city owns, we will need to decide what is needed for parking. If it's a partnership with a civic space on the bottom and apartments above, the parking would be below, and it would have to be discussed if a portion of that parking would be available for the civic space. Mayor Grant said it would be like how Columbia Heights did it. Councilmember Monson didn't think that was a civic use. She understood that wouldn't fall under our definition of civic use to have public facilities with apartments on top. The way the agreement is written, we could only do a community center, a library, a theater. We couldn't add the apartments above. If we wanted to do that, she thinks we would have to rezone. Interim City Administrator said we may not have to rezorre but there would be some additional land uses in the TRC for the civic center to allow for that type of use. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2O24 Councilmember Monson asked if that is something we want, we need to decide as soon as possible because then he would rearrange the number of units in town center. Councilmember Holden said the former City Attorney has said that if we think we want a second story, we should plan it with two stories from the beginning. It's easier to expand it than it is to go up. She said the reason the civic space had been discussed with a gym is because in the summer if it's raining, kids have nowhere to go. Councilmember Rousseau said she didn't know if playground space is applicable anymore because surrounding cities have done a great job building similar spaces. She does agree there should be a second story. Councilmember Holden clarified that she didn't mean a playground setting. She meant when there is a summer program at Tony Schmidt. If it's raining, the parent can't go to work or would have to make other arrangements. Having a civic center that can accommodate the kids on those bad weather days, is what she meant by playground setting. Councilmember Monson said for the sake of time for tonight's meeting, we don't have decide exactly what will be there, but just agree we still want it. We can use a public process to determine what is included in that space, but everyone is in favor of holding that. She asked if there anything needed for the agreement. Mayor Grant said assuming we're adding 500 units of housing, we'll need an additional park. Councilmember Rousseau wondered if the southwest comer will still be considered a walkable park. She is concerned that if we go with a recreational aspect, where will the next park be? Do we need green space? There could be a path around a building with murals. Councilmember Monson said there are terms that need to be updated in the agteement. Interim City Administrator Jagoe said knowing there is the update on the 2022Term Sheet, Staff would like direction on next steps. How does Council want to move forward with discussions with Alatus on the Term Sheet items to refine the numbers? Councilmember Holden asked if Council could discuss the land sale in a closed session. She said even if the land sale is for $1. She said before anyone negotiates, we need to decide what the priorities are. Kori Land said there are a lot of moving parts in the Term Sheet. One of the parts is the sale of land. There is a separate document for the sale of the land. There is an offer for the sale of land with the purchase price of $ 1. That is separate from the other terms. If Council wants to discuss the sale of land, whether we want to buy it, use it as civic space, or amend the components of that option agreement, Council can go to closed session to talk about that. The other components in the Term Sheet are not part of that. Mayor Grant said basically the answer is no to a closed session. Kori Land confirmed. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2024 Councilmember Fabel clarified that the previous agreement, that had three different possibilities for the transfer of land at three different points of time, is off the table. The option is just that the land will be transferred for $1 whenever that option is exercised. Stacie Kvilvang believes Alatus is open to discussion the option agreement and revising as appropriate based on the new transaction with the county. They want to get further into the financial deal with the County and how they are taking the land down and the timing of that. Then they want to incorporate everything else with the City. In the meantime, they do want to have the parks discussion. Mayor Grant asked if they were taking down the parcels in a phased approach. He understands Alatus is taking the whole piece. Stacie Kvilvang confirmed. They are still negotiating price. Councilmember Holden she is worried about the options that previously had a lot of strings attached to that parcel. If we open the discussion, how many strings will be reattached. Mayor Grant said that Bob Lux signed the parks agreement. When asked, he made clear he never signed on the civic site. Council said that was a necessary piece and he believes Bob Lux signed it in May of 2022. Councilmember Fabel thinks the big question mark is Alatus' concluding its deal with the County. Then Alatus would be able to discuss specific conditions. He doesn't see how any meaningful discussions can take place until that time. Councilmember Monson recommended scheduling a closed work session to discuss the civic space. She disagreed that meaningful discussion must wait. She thinks we need to give feedback to Bob Lux which will reflect his discussions with the County. That would allow the City to hold the things we have. Mayor Grant said he believes Bob Lux views this as one deal with multiple parties. It's beneficial for him to negotiate and put the whole deal together, rather than just one agreement at a time which will take longer. The City is best off to get into the discussions earlier, rather than later. Councilmember Holden said her worry is that Bob Lux will make his deal with the County and come back to the City and say he's not giving us anything. She thinks if his deal with the County is not as big as he wants, he will ask the City to pay millions of dollars. Stacie Kvilvang said she believes Bob Lux whole heartedly embraces the civic use option agreement. It will be a draw for people. The reason for the tiered options was because no one wanted that land to sit vacant for 10 years. Councilmember Rousseau would like to set up a weekly work session to hold time for these discussions, as needed. If the meetings are not needed, they can be cancelled. Mayor Grant said at some point the City needs to negotiate. He said we can have a closed session for the civic site. The other items will need some negotiators. It would have to be an open ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2024 meeting if there are three councilmembers or more participating. He doesn't believe an open meeting is the ideal negotiating strategy. Councilmember Holden agrees with Councilmember Rousseau. The negotiators need to know what is important to the Council, as a whole. Discussions regarding the depth and details need to happen before negotiations can be successful. She hasn't seen anything from the County that they are going to pay for affordable housing. Everyone talks about it, but she's not seen anything in writing. With the changes at the federal level, we can't be certain that grant funding opportunities will be available. The City needs to protect itself. Prioritizing the items is important, especially since we don't know what the deal with the County looks like. Mayor Grant said you can't get into the details because then you're showing your hand. They'll know what's important and it will be harder to get what we want. Councilmember Holden said that negotiations are public. Kori Land said that depends on who is at the table. If there are just two councilmembers at the table it's not an open meeting. Mayor Grant agrees whoever the two negotiators are, need to know what's important to the whole council. Public discussion needs to be at a high level otherwise the other party knows what you really want and you will get played. Councilmember Monson thinks everything on the Term Sheet folds into each other. A lot of it flows into the financials. She doesn't know how you can say one item is more important than the other. She thinks the first step is to go back to Bob Lux and talk about the items. It would be ideal if we had updated park plans. That can be a public discussion. We want to keep the civic site, we can discuss the Public Works Facility and TIF. She believes they all overlay each other. Councilmember Holden said that's how Councilmember Monson looks at it. There are more financial pieces to discuss. Councilmember Monson said the cost to build the parks vs. park dedication fee goes back to the Term Sheet and ties together. She doesn't know how to say one is more important than the other. We want to keep it all. Councilmember Holden said it has been repeatedly discussed the item of l0%o ownership for affordable units isn't good enough. Homeownership should be the number one thing for the affordable housing. It was 20Yo, now it's l0%. She thinks that will affect the financials. Stacie Kvilvang explained that the 20oh meant 20oh of the overall units. The affordability requirements are higher. Of the affordable units, l0o/o are required to be owner occupied. Councilmember Holden said of the 500 units going in, she doesn't know how many affordable units are in that mix. How many affordable units will there be? At what level will they be affordable? How many are going to be Lux building? She knows that information is out there, we just haven't seen it yet. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER7,2024 Stacie Kvilvang said we can request that information and he will give it to us. It's not secret. The City said what we wanted for affordability. The County had their number. Councilmember Holden understands that, but this Council has repeatedly agreed that ownership was a number one priority. Stacie Kvilvang said they are required to do l0% of affordable housing. She can get the numbers. Mayor Grant said the item that is important to him, is not in the Term Sheet. It is the overall financials. He wants to make sure the City is not financially liable, if the project didn't move forward for whatever reason. It is also important that the City gets back the planning fees. The original Joint Powers Agreement had those monies being spent and were anticipated to come back to the City. He wants to hold to that. He can't be certain the County will pay for affordable housing. Councilmember Monson is fine with trying to hold the2}oh. The JDA has not discussed how affordable those units would be. The County has agreed to pay for the costs for affordable housing. If they didn't, the City wouldn't have a role in covering affordable housing, anyway. Bob Lux would have to figure out how to fund it through other resources. If he's unsuccessful that's another conversation. She would like to see confirmation from the County to say they are going to use the levied resources. The City won't be responsible for paying for that. Councilmember llolden said that's not true. There are Met Council goals that we must meet. We are guaranteeing to the Met Council that we will have a certain amount of affordable housing units. We will have to give up something in order to make sure there are affordable housing units up there if the County backs out. Stacie Kvilvang said the Met Council goals are not a law and there is no penalty. Councilmember Holden doesn't think that is what has been stated up until now. Stacie Kvilvang said nothing has changed in the development program that was already seen. There will likely be one building that is a tax credit project. They are going to use a building that has some affordability so they can take advantage of the 4d Tax Law. The County has said that they are going to bring resources and that's what Bob Lux has to have in his agreement with them. The City is requiring affordability. So, he has to come to the table with dollars. The County has never had an issue with that. Councilmember Holden said we don't know that. Councilmember Monson said that confirms the City would not be financially on the hook. Councilmember Fabel said Habitat for Humanity is an affordable housing option. There is a lot of Habitat for Humanity units going in at the Heights Development on the east side of St. Paul. Councilmember Monson would like to put dates on the calendar to discuss the Civic Center. She would like to schedule discussions for any topics that would not put negotiations at risk. The JDA reps can talk to Bob Lux. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2OT4 Stacie Kvilvang said she struggles with a closed session on the civic site for the MOU. She doesn't know what they want to talk about. She wonders why it can't be an open discussion. It's about the timing. You have terms. It will be purchased for $1. She asked if the discussion is that it will always be $1 regardless of when the purchase happens. Councilmember Holden said it is an option for the people who haven't been involved in the discussions. Everyone can have an explanation. We have to develop that land. How are we going to pay for that? There are more things to discuss besides getting it for $1. Kori Land said she isn't sure those are items that can be discussed in a closed session. How the land is developed is an open session. What you pay for it, in terms of the sale of the land, can be a closed discussion. Councilmembers agreed the closed session is not needed. Stacie Kvilvang said the biggest discussion is going to be the parks. There have been a lot of dialogue surrounding that. Does Council want to go through the Parks Commission again, or if Council will sit down with Bob Lux and the designers and see what's in there and discuss what needs to be changed. The MOU says Bob Lux will pay for it and the City will set the park dedication fees to build it. That doesn't change. Councilmember Rousseau said she would like to have an update on the spine road. Are they talking about moving that out past the 60%? She would like to see bike paths on the spine road that are safe for young children. Councilmember Holden said all of that is in the TRC. Every road is specced out in there. Councilmember Monson said another thing that needs to be discussed is a park in the southwest comer. She thinks a separate meeting on the parks and trails TRC. She would like to see one comprehensive map that shows all of the trails and the parks. She would be open to letting PTRC discuss it first or inviting them to attend a joint session with Council. Councilmember Holden said that extends the timing. She thinks it is important to determine what the value is. She keeps hearing we're getting sub-standard playground equipment. The reason Bob Lux was so eager to do that is because it saved him money over paying park dedication fees. Mayor Grant said he thinks we can take a look at the value and reassess that. Then we have to go back to Bob Lux and renegotiate. Councilmember Monson said as long as it's lower than what his standard park dedication fee would be he'll be wise to say yes. Mayor Grant said he believes Bob Lux wants to make this an exceptional place, you're going to want to have parks for people. He can't put 500 people in the southwest comer and no park for them to go to. It is in his best interest. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COIINCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER7,2OZ4 l0 Councilmember Rousseau asked if it would be beneficial for the PTRC to be invited to the meeting when the Parks MOU is discussed. Then they will be getting the information and can provide input. Mayor Grant said Council needs to determine if there is value in spending a lot of additional time on this, working through committees and bringing everyone up to speed. At one point speed was of the essence. He doesn't understand why it seems to some that is no longer the case. Councilmember Monson said she hadn't considered the timing when she suggested having it go back to PTRC. She would rather go faster. She does like the idea of extending and invitation to whoever wants to come when the discussion happens. Councilmember Rousseau would like to schedule meetings to get them on the calendar and they can be cancelled if they aren't needed. Councilmember Holden said at one time there was discussion of a museum or a historical building. She said this is a historic site. It would be nice to have a marker of some kind at the entrance to the development. She wants that to still be apart of the plan. Maybe it's something to add to the Term Sheet. The County and Bob Lux aren't going to negotiate for that. Mayor Grant said there are multiple topics to discuss. Somehow the Council needs to decide how we move forward. Councilmember Rousseau said that could be part of the Parks MOU, having a space for the historical piece. Councilmember Holden asked if Stacie Kvilvang remembers where that piece is. Stacie Kvilvang said it isn't a bad thing to put it down. She wasn't sure if it needs to go on the Term Sheet. Mayor Grant said it could go on the Term Sheet. He likes the idea of taking something back to the PTRC even if it takes a little longer. Councilmember Holden would like to see the parks and trail map. The numbers have changed. We need to dig into that to see if certain parks need to be expanded because of how the residential units have changed in certain areas. Stacie Kvilvang said it would be helpful to have Bob Lux and his team provide that. Council can request where we were before and where they are today. She is sure they have some designs laid out. Then Council can discuss required acreage or what will be programmed at each park. Kori Land thinks having the PTRC weigh in would be a good idea. That's what their passion is. Councilmember Rousseau would like to have a conversation about it and bring the PTRC in as we are revisiting this old information. Councilmember Holden she agrees. The PTRC will want the most beautiful park. Council needs to make the parks fit into a budget. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2O24 l1 Councilmember Monson feels like the budget is way bigger with the Park Dedication Fee as the cap. She asked for a reminder on how Park Dedication Fees are calculated. Interim City Administrator Jagoe said on the residential side it is per unit. On the commercial it is based off a percentage of the value of the land. Stacie Kvilvang said $6,500/unit and 10o% value of the land. Those were sized around a cost of $16 million. The deal says the parks will cost $16 million and the developer needs to invest at least $16 million into the parks. The Park Dedication Fees will be set so he will get the $16 million back. He has to pay up front and he won't get those fees until building permits. Mayor Grant remembers Bob Lux had offered to do some work when doing mass grading he would save $3 million. So the City said we are going to get everything we need. If he saves money, fine. But now the mix has changed between residential and commercial. Whether the number is still $16 million or maybe it's S20 million, he's still saving money instead of Park Dedication Fees. We should be able to go back and say we need additional parks or bigger parks because we added additional residential and they need a place to recreate. Stacie Kvilvang said you can also say the City will reimburse him the Park Dedication Fees up to the amount he spent. Any remaining Park Dedication Fees come back to the City for us to spend how we want for capital needs at the other parks. Councilmember Holden said we still need to look at it. Discussion ensued regarding what meeting the PTRC will be invited to attend. Council said the PTRC could join the Special Work Session on November 18. Interim City Administrator Jagoe said in preparation for that meeting she will work with Alatus to see if she can get some maps of current designs to have for the discussion. Councilmember Holden thought Council should meet, as a group, first to discuss park sizes and amenities. She doesn't think getting the PTRC together to understand how we got where we are now is a valuable discussion. If they don't have the information in advance there would have to be another meeting after that when they've had time to digest the information. Councilmember Rousseau said the PTRC only meets once a month for an hour and a half and they have a full agenda working on the 2025 Work Plan. That would push the discussion out a couple months. If the consensus is we don't want to invite them to sit at the table then Council should just discuss. Councilmember Holden thinks Council should have all the information, in advance, before it's discussed. Everyone should see the memo. Everyone should learn what the parks were and why; and the number of people that were surrounding the parks and what the new numbers are. Then Council can discuss what additional equipment is needed. She asked if anyone on the PTRC specializes in playground equipment. Councilmember Rousseau said most of the members are passionate about nature. There are a few members who have kids at Valentine and they are playground enthusiasts. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COLINCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER7,2024 t2 Councilmember Holden wondered when Council will discuss rip rap and the area around the pond. That's the nature part. Stacie Kvilvang said none of us are park planners. Last time the park planners were involved. If that is Bolton and Menk, they should be sitting at the table for that discussion. The park planners will know how many extra acres need to be added based on the residential numbers shifting. We talk to the designers about what makes sense. Councilmember Holden said that is more important to her than having everyone at the meeting. Mayor Grant said he would prefer a modern/semi-modern edge for the storm water pond. Councilmember Holden said she doesn't care what he wants right now. She wants to know when the discussion will happen. Stacie Kvilvang assumes they are already designing it. Mayor Grant wanted his desire known for whoever is in the negotiating meeting. Councilmember Holden said that's the perfect nature feature. That area should be designed with a natural aspect. Stacie Kvilvang said if there is a storm water maintenance requirement as part of the project, that's a City requirement. There will be a storm water agreement and we can add whatever conditions we want. Mayor Grant said we won't own the storm water pond. Stacie Kvilvang confirmed. But there will be an agreement and the City can spruce it up. Councilmember Holden said there were 16 different options for how it could be finished. Councilmember Monson asked how other Cities typically handle this level of detail. Kori Land said the problem is we are not involved in the development. We can only control the things the City requires. Park Dedication Fees and storm water ponding are within our jurisdiction. The other pieces will have to be negotiated. The Term Sheet identifies some of the things we can control. Mayor Grant asked what was going to happen with PTRC. Councilmember Holden said she thinks Council needs to sit down with the designers. Councilmember Monson said we decided no PTRC. We can invite them, if they can make it. We'll have a Special Work Session and have Bolton and Menk. We will get information from the developer and have a discussion on the parks list. Councilmember Holden thinks we need the monetary aspect. We need to know how many acres a park should be based on surounding households. The consultant can tell us what kind of ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COI.INCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2024 t3 equipment we need. Pickleball courts are in. Do we design a tennis court in case Pickleball is not popular in ten years? She thought we may want there to be a more adult focused park in The Creek vs. in areas where people may be purchasing their first homes. Councilmember Rousseau said walkability is important. Interim City Administrator Jagoe wondered what timing would look like to get Bolton and Menk in for a discussion. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they could be available any time. They already have a team proposed in anticipation that it would be needed. He said they are quick to respond to any requests he makes. He assumes they will be able to jump on this as soon as we need them. Interim City Administrator Jagoe said Staff will gather the information and get it to them. They already know the sizing and equipment needed for the quantity of people next to a park and should be able to turn the information around quickly. Interim Cify Administrator Jagoe summarized there is direction for Staff to schedule a Work Session on the Parks MOU and a parks discussion. She asked if Council had direction on next steps on the other items. Mayor Grant said Councilmember Rousseau is requesting standing weekly meetings. He doesn't know if we need that many. Councilmember Rousseau said not the week of Thanksgiving but having something on the calendar for the next four or five weeks. If they aren't needed, they can be canceled. Councilmember Monson thought in the meantime, the JDA reps can talk to Bob Lux about the redline Term Sheet. We can express the desire to hold the affordable housing number at20Yo. She wondered what the topics would be for the standing meetings. Mayor Grant said we don't know if we need the meetings but Council is penciling in dates as a placeholder for discussions. Councilmember Holden said the JDA reps shouldn't meet with Bob Lux until we know what we want. Negotiating bits and pieces is not the right way to go. Mayor Grant agreed. Councilmember Monson said it would be worthwhile to have a phone call with him to walk through it. If there is anything he shares, they can come back and talk about it with Council. Councilmember Holden said that is the reason Stacie Kvilvang was invited to tonight's meeting, so she can explain the redlines. Councilmember Monson said she is trying to ensure that we keep Bob Lux moving as well. She is concerned about Council getting stuck in their own conversation for weeks and weeks. There has to be time to discuss with him. Also, there was worry about too much public negotiation. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ NOVEMBER7,2024 l4 Councilmember Rousseau is in favor of the JDA continuing those conversations. There are some areas of concern around some of the topics. The Public Works facility is something that stood out tonight. The JDA members can have some of those conversations, as well. Mayor Grant said Council may need to wrap their heads around that, as well, in terms of size and location. He would like Interim City Administrator to be a part of any discussions with Bob Lux. Councilmember Holden said she doesn't understand why we would go into negotiation and tell Bob Lux what is important to us before we have our negotiating tool. She said you should go in and lay out the cards and move one card at a time. She asked when the County is scheduled to meet with Bob Lux next in a closed session. Interim City Administrator Jagoe did not know the schedule. They tentatively have agenda item for a closed meeting discussion on the PSA scheduled for November 26th. That is subject to the PSA being agreed upon and those deal points being reached. Discussion is ongoing. The November 26ft meeting is a placeholder. Councilmember Holden asked if anyone has insight. The consultants did not. Councilmember Holden said we have until at least the week of Thanksgiving and didn't think there is any hurry to call Bob Lux prior to the Work Session next week. Councilmember Monson would like to see finances that show what it looks like with the Public Works and without. She would like to see financial impacts of different amounts of TIF, based on scope of the $17 million, what it is today. Stacie Kvilvang said it's less because of interest rates. Before when we were running numbers, interest rates were 30% interest rates environment. Now it's 6 or 7o/o. Councilmember Monson said she would like to have the values of TIF. She would like the escrow amount confirmed to ensure the first few years were covered. Then Council can decide if that looks good for the City. She wondered how we get there. Stacie Kvilvang said we have had them, and she would just have to update it with the new numbers. She thinks Bob Lux will say he doesn't know what he needs and if he can pay for the Public Works facility, will he get his deal figured out with the county? If they figure that out on the 26ft other things can move forward. Councilmember Monson asked what the recommendation is to get to the negotiations. Stacie Kvilvang said concentrating on what the City wants and needs at the parks is going to be huge. If there are any changes to the civic space regarding the timing of taking that down. She thinks financial discussions are premature until we know what his deal is. Interim City Administrator Jagoe said the other item she heard was the question on the Planning Fees. Stacie Kvilvang confirmed that hasn't changed. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER7,2024 l5 Councilmember Holden asked where the Met Council SAC^VAC fees are. Stacie Kvilvang said there are no SAC fee. We have credits on the site. Councilmember Holden thinks there may not be enough credits to cover everflhing. Stacie Kvilvang said there are more than enough credits with extra after the fact. Councilmember Monson summarized there will be a meeting on the civic site, a meeting on the parks and have a financial discussion on the financial pieces after the November 26ft meeting between Bob Lux and the County. Discussion ensued regarding when Special Work Sessions can be held. Council agreed on November 18ft at 5:30, to discuss the parks. 4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES Mayor Grant asked if there were any Council or Staff comments. Interim City Administrator Jagoe said JDA Chair Wicklund's term is set to expire at the end of this year. How would Council like to handle the process and timing to appoint a JDA Chair? Mayor Grant said he discussed this with Chair Wicklund. He didn't seem motivated to continue. Interim City Administrator Jagoe said she also talked with him. He wondered if there is Council interest of him staying on as the Chair. She agrees he is undecided. Mayor Grant thinks the question is because he is the Chair and the JDA is turning over at least three seats. Chair Wicklund is wondering if this would be a good time to appoint a different chair. Councilmember Holden pointed out that he missed several meetings this year. She doesn't want to offer him the job if Council turns over on January 1't. Would we put him on and then throw him off if something changes? She thinks that's tacky. She wondered if it could wait until January I rt. Mayor Grant said it could wait until January. There is not set date where it needs to be done. He recalled one year when Council switched over its committees in February. Councilmember Rousseau said we could do an interview on January 3'd . Mayor Grant said we haven't decided we aren't having him back. Councilmember Rousseau understands. The first council meeting is on the 13ft so there would be the entire week of the 6th through the 1Oft for interviews, if we go that route. Interim City Administrator Jagoe said if Council wanted to table this discussion until after the l't of the year. Then Council could meet on the 13ft and make the decision to either reappoint or make a motion to extend him for another month. The County will appoint a vice chair so that person could fill in if there is no chair. The JDA meetings could still function with the vice chair ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COTINCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER7,\OL4 16 but if the City wanted our Chair there, extending his term by a month is possible, assuming he is willing to do that. Council agreed to table for another night. ADJOURN Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Special Work Session at 7:05 p.m. David Mayor r Fstling Deputy Clerk Grant