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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-10-25 WSlt ,-iI�EN HILLS Approved: April 14, 2025 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MARCH 10, 2025 5:30 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor David Grant called to order the City Council Work Session at 5:30 p.m. Present: Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Kurt Weber and Tena Monson Absent: Emily Rousseau (Excused) and Brenda Holden (Excused) Also present: City Administrator Jessica Jagoe; Public Works Director/City Engineer David Swearingen; Finance Director Joua Yang and Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson Mayor Grant wanted to add an agenda item after the Zoning Code Update. Council will discuss Odds and Ends Again. Council agreed to add the item. 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL None. 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None. 3. AGENDA ITEMS A. Parks System Planning Proposal Bryce Shearen and Casey Byers of Bolton & Menk began the discussion on the Park System Planning Proposal. Bryce Shearen presented the proposal that was provided to Councilmembers in the agenda packet. He said they would be happy to outline the plan or, to keep it brief, just stand for any questions. He pointed out there is a fee schedule in the proposal outlining what this will cost the ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 2 City. They did include some enhanced services that would be optional, at an additional cost, above what is budgeted. Mayor Grant said the base option is the entire budget. Councilmember Monson thanked the presenters for the thorough proposal. She said it reflects the previous discussion. She said the budget was set at $75,000. She is disappointed that the enhanced survey and project marketing is offered as an enhanced service, rather than being built into the base option. That is the part that has signs on the trails/parks and can use QR codes. She asked Staff if there was a way for the City to do signs with QR codes. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen believes that is above and beyond what we have available. It would be difficult to facilitate that, with the absence of a full-time communications person along with all of the other projects that Staff has going on. Casey Byers said Bolton & Menk will create and provide a QR code. The enhanced part is the production of the signs and cost of material. Councilmember Monson thinks that is an effective outreach and would like to see that included. She thinks it's important for the public engagement piece. She thinks the interactive community map is helpful but not necessary. She is interested in the learning about the youth engagement. She thought a school and requested an update for what is happening at Cummings Park because they can't use it. City Administrator Jagoe thought that was an email that was sent to Councilmember Rousseau. She would have to go back and look for sure, but she remembered the letter expressing disappointment in current park equipment. Councilmember Monson feels more strongly about adding the Enhanced Survey and Project Marketing than the Youth Engagement piece. Councilmember Weber said there is a Community Survey included in the base proposal. He wondered what is different with the Enhanced Survey and Project Marketing. He asked if it is just the QR code posted on signs. Bryce Shearen said it would be the marketing materials, sidewalk decals and signs in the park. The survey is the same. Councilmember Weber thinks that option could be considered, for the price. He thinks possibly PTRC could do something like that. He asked the presenters how the sidewalk decals are attached to the asphalt. Bryce Shearen said the sidewalk decals are a vinyl decal. Councilmember Monson asked if it was like a campaign sign. Bryce Shearen said there are decals attached to the trail/sidewalk and there are yard signs. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 3 Councilmember Weber thinks that may be a good task for the PTRC. He supports the Youth Engagement option. We have an independent school district that encompasses a lot of different cities. So, it may be difficult. Casey Byers said feedback can be separated so you can see what adults vs. youth say. Mayor Grant asked if Councilmember Weber is thinking the PTRC could complete task 2.3 for Enhanced Survey and Project Marketing. Councilmember Weber confirmed it was just an idea. He assumes we can make signs. He wondered if we have an agreement with Ramsey County for signs. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said at the Staff level, with all the projects going on, we will need to lean on the consultant to drive this project. We can request that the PTRC supplement but that will also require Staff to coordinate the tasks. That wouldn't take anything away from the Staff workload. Councilmember Weber understands. He doesn't see this as a burdensome task. It's just coordinating. We're already going to be making the signs for Adopt -a -Park. However, we are acquiring those signs, so there may be an option for this. Campaign style signs may be an option. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen thought if we had a full-time Communications Coordinator, it would be easier to do. He just doesn't want to take that on, if there is another route. Councilmember Weber asked, without the enhanced option, how will the survey outreach go? Bryce Shearen said there are a few things outlined in the proposal. We can have it on the website and social media. Water bill inserts may be an option. The signs were placed at Freeway and Arden Oaks Parks and they were well received. He said they were trying to make this work as well as possible, given the budget. Mayor Grant asked what the timeline is. Bryce Shearen said they would want to coordinate the engagement signs for the length of the survey. They will try to drive residents to provide feedback. Mayor Grant said he is trying to figure out how the timing may work with the hiring of a Communications Coordinator. Bryce Shearen said, it will depend on when the plan is approved. He thought mid -May to June. Ideally there would be signs out on the day the survey opens. Mayor Grant said he doesn't think we need a decal. Councilmember Weber said residents would love to see those along the trail. Bryce Shearen said they started installing decals because so many people walk with their heads down. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 4 Councilmember Monson said she thinks the cost of $3,500 is worth doing this right and getting as much engagement as possible. She reminded it has been 22 years since the City had a Parks Plan. She thinks it's worthwhile to do the Enhanced Survey and Project Marketing. In the meantime, if we get a Communications Coordinator, she would be fine splitting this piece off and returning it to Staff but she is okay with adding that enhanced feature to the plan. She thinks it's going to be either or but not both; the Enhanced Survey/Project Marketing and the Youth Engagement. She would rather hit the broader community. Councilmember Weber agrees. He thinks the Youth Engagement is valuable but believes it may be an inefficient use of funds for this project, based on the large independent school district. Mayor Grant asked how soon a decision has to be made on which enhanced features are included. He said the Communications Coordinator position is just being posted. Bryce Shearen understood. He said they would be happy to work with the City. If they start it and a Communications Coordinator is hired, maybe this is their first project. No decision has to be made today. Mayor Grant summarized that of the three alternative tasks proposed, there is a consensus that Task 2.3: Enhanced Survey and Project Marketing. He agreed it would be an interesting project for the Communications position. Councilmember Monson asked what is happening with the Park and Recreation Manager position. City Administrator Jagoe said the posting closed last Friday, March 7. The applications are under review and we should be interviewing within two weeks. Councilmember Monson said it will be nice if they can step in and help support this project. Mayor Grant said the City of Mounds View has done some extensive work on their park system and their plan came back at just over $20 million. He asked the consultants what they think the final amount might be. Casey Byers said we really need to go through the process outlined in the proposal. He has seen 10-year plans that have a $5 million Capital Improvement Plan. He's also done ones that are $25- $30 million. It entirely depends on the community and the status of your existing park system. At the previous meeting he discussed aligning community values with projects and expectations. Some communities are in the state of trying to build back 20-years of deferred maintenance. Other communities don't need to do that and they are looking at big projects. It will depend on the input received from residents, Staff direction and the status of the current Park System. Mayor Grant said we are an interesting community. We have a number of parks among a number of communities. The City is kind of divided up in sections. Being a small community a proposal like this can come back with many multiples of our annual levy. He's trying to set the stage for Staff. He doesn't want the consultants to feel restrained. He hopes they will bring the best plan forward. He's also trying to prepare Council for potential sticker shock. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 5 Councilmember Monson appreciates him highlighting that the outcome may be unpalatable. She thinks this Council understands the limitations and it can be a framework for the City to work on one piece at a time. The priorities of the community could be something like planting trees in a park to provide shade. She understands the number will be high. Council is aware that we won't be able to do it all. She doesn't think it will be a problem for Council to manage. Mayor Grant noted that he did not use the word unpalatable. Councilmember Monson didn't mean to attribute that to him with her comments. Mayor Grant said his point to Bolton & Menk is he wants them to bring back a good plan and make recommendations. He is just trying to set the expectation to Council that the amount is going to be a large number. Mounds View is still reeling from what they were proposed. Casey Byers said sometimes having the plan helps put into perspective what the community needs are. That helps from a grant funding standpoint and it also helps for private donors and corporations who are trying to bring families and professionals into the area. A plan like this will help shed light on what the community needs are. Mayor Grant asked if there was anything else needed from Council. Bryce Shearen said they have what they need to move forward. Mayor Grant said he looks forward to getting started. B. Zoning Code Update City Administrator Jagoe reminded that HGKi is working with the City on the zoning ordinance updates. She provided a recap of the schedule of the four different phases in the packet. The project is currently in Phase 3 of the project. The Planning Commission received their first presentation from the consultants at the February meeting. The presentation included their initial review of the zoning districts. Some additional information on residential district standards was shared. This will be the building block as they keep working on drafting language and bringing back additional information to the Planning Commission. This is an update for the City Council on what the Planning Commission has received. Council should determine if further discussion is needed or if the consultants should look at other alternatives. From the update tonight, the consultants are going to start drafting language and bring forth new information to the Planning Commission. City Administrator Jagoe wants to review the four bullet points that were highlighted for the Planning Commission. She asked Council to determine if there is anything they would like the consultants to look at differently or provide additional information on. At Phase 3 the consultants are going to start working on their community engagement with the online survey and some other things. Mayor Grant said it appears that the B2 District is now mixed use. He said that includes residential and commercial. He doesn't think that's a good thing. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 6 City Administrator Jagoe said the intent of the proposed naming of the districts was to take away, for example on the residential side, the housing type that is there. So, calling it Suburban Residential 1 vs. Single Family. Because the B-2 District currently allows multi -family dwelling as a conditional use they chose the mixed -use language. She can have them look at a different name. That commercial B-2 district currently allows residential as a conditional use, but we can request an alternative to that name. Mayor Grant said it seems in some places they are trying to change the district by using language like permitted and permitted with standards. They are opening up a lot of things and redefining our code rather than correcting and simplifying our code. He believed that was their primary purpose. City Administrator Jagoe said the mixed use term wasn't intended to introduce new uses within a district. Council can have that discussion. She believes the intent of the naming is that today, we do allow residential as a conditional use in this Commercial District. There is a portion of the report that discusses Expanding Access to Housing. One of their models for a proposed use table would include permitted use, conditional use and permitted with standards. If the Planning Commission, with City Council direction, wanted to look at there being a number of uses that are either conditional use, or require a PUD for approval. The permitted with standards is an opportunity to have a pathway where certain applications can be approved administratively, subject to the standards outlined in the code, without requiring a public hearing. For those applications there is a layer of review before you get to the building permit. It is a pathway to help reduce the barriers of cost and/or time by eliminating the public hearing, Planning Commission and full City Council review. Mayor Grant said he is looking at R-1. He said R-1 is single family residential. According to the information provided someone could create a duplex or twin home. He asked if that is allowed today. City Administrator Jagoe said the R-1 district allows a single family attached, which is a town home or twin home and a two-family home is allowed by conditional use permit in R-1. This is saying the conditional use permit would require the public hearing process to play out. Mayor Grant said we don't allow townhomes. City Administrator Jagoe said we do allow single family attached, where there is a common wall, by conditional use. Yes, it is allowed today with approval of a conditional use permit. Mayor Grant asked if a townhome can be a four-plex. City Administrator Jagoe said no. A duplex and a four-plex would be different than a single family. Councilmember Monson said it seems like the changes reflect what we're already doing but with clarifying names. We already allow the uses they are recommending in R-1. The question is whether to leave it as a conditional use or change it to be permitted with standards. She asked if that was a fair characterization of the changes. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 7 City Administrator Jagoe reminded this is proposed so the language will need to come back to the Planning Commission and City Council. They expanded on some of the uses. She said today there is no Cottage Courtyard. The small scale or large scale multi -family dwelling are not allowed in R-1 and the consultants are not making any change to that. Councilmember Monson walked through each use and asked if the proposed types of dwellings are currently allowed in each of the residential districts. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed that the dwellings are currently allowed by conditional use permit. She pointed out the code doesn't delineate between Multi -Unit Dwelling (small scale) and Multi -Unit Dwelling (large scale). Councilmember Monson said aside from the Cottage Courtyard, which is new, and splitting how Multi -Units are defined the consultants aren't proposing any new uses. They are proposing a change to how they go through the process. City Administrator Jagoe said the Multi -Unit dwelling is not permitted in any of our residential districts. It is a conditional use permit in R-3 and R-4. They show it permitted, but it is currently a conditional use. The consultant is looking for feedback on if the Council is comfortable with them continuing to look at language where some of our Conditional Uses may be Permitted with Standards. It would remove the need for a Public Hearing. Is there interest in looking at this alternate path to review and approve a project? Councilmember Weber asked what the density for Cottage Courtyard is. City Administrator Jagoe didn't recall off the top of her head. Councilmember Weber said that is the only question he has to permit it in R-1. It depends on the density. Across the board he supports reducing the number of Conditional Use Permits in the City. It has been a huge sticking point for development of homes and businesses in the City. He thinks eliminating Conditional Use Permits will go a long way in expanding our business enterprise. Mayor Grant is not aware of the density level of Cottage Courtyard. He believes the cottage is smaller and rather than having an expansive yard, you can essentially add a courtyard. He said there is no density to the Cottage Courtyard. City Administrator Jagoe said she relates it to the PUD process where you have the concentration of density, smaller lot sizes, concentration of density on one portion of the development. Then there would be open space all reserved on the other side. So instead of having a landscaping and green requirement, you might have that courtyard green and all of the properties contribute to that in another area. Mayor Grant clarified that this is Arden Hills Proper and doesn't include TCAAP. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. Mayor Grant isn't sure there is much place for Cottage Courtyard, since we are pretty much fully developed. He wonders if the consultants know that. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 8 Councilmember Weber agrees. If there was anything on the list that he thinks should require a conditional use, it would be the Cottage Courtyard. It would impact existing communities. Councilmember Monson agrees with the idea of reducing CUPs. She is looking at the table and what we actually have zoned vs. what's already there. She thought we may end up rezoning some areas to better reflect what exists, thus allowing residents to have more flexibility to improve their homes. She is struggling with the impact of R-3. She wonders how we reconcile having a multi- family dwelling as a permitted use in an area that is simply single-family homes right now. City Administrator Jagoe said the consultants may have to come back with that information. At the Planning Commission meeting the commission did not review the zoning districts and how the existing neighborhoods are built out. That was a request of the Commission to have the consultants bring back data on what the neighborhoods currently have and they asked for the visuals to be more applicable and reflective of those neighborhoods. They requested more information and didn't get deep into discussion regarding rezoning. They liked this structure for how approvals might work, and they were open to looking at expanding housing options. They wanted to see more data before having that discussion. Councilmember Monson said she likes the standards. She thinks it would be good to look at where we would allow a small multi -family dwelling that is four to six units. That's different than what we have today. She doesn't know where we would choose to make those changes. It doesn't seem fair to go to residents in a completely single-family neighborhood and tell them they are being rezoned for a higher density neighborhood. She wants to remain true to who we are. She wouldn't want to create false issues. Councilmember Weber agrees that needs to be a priority. The idea of reclassifying our neighborhoods into something that they clearly are not right now is way outside the scope of this project. Council and Staff all agreed. Mayor Grant said he would like to discuss Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs). City Administrator Jagoe said the consultants laid out the different ways we can expand on housing. Council's direction was that we wanted to have another discussion amongst ourselves. Council would want to provide feedback and direction before the Planning Commission dives into this discussion. The consultant is looking for council direction on if that review should be occurring simultaneously with this process. It's a big project. There are a lot of factors that go into that type of review. The thought is they could reserve a placeholder chapter in the revisions that state where it might fit in. Then we could discuss the details at a future work session. That would be a separate conversation from these revisions. Mayor Grant thinks Council needs to weigh in. Councilmember Monson agrees we should separate it. There is too much to talk about there. The short term licensing discussion would go hand in hand with that topic. It should be separate. There should be community engagement. There is a lot to dig into with these processes. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 9 Councilmember Weber asked if we want to do a joint work session with the Planning Commission. He thinks that would be a good idea. Councilmember Monson said yes. It's also a question if we can do it at the same time as Staff is doing this or if we need to stagger them. She would prefer they are discussed at the same time. Councilmember Weber thinks a comprehensive review of what is possible and reasonable for our city in a joint session with the Planning Commission would be useful in getting everyone on the same page. Mayor Grant wants to discuss ADUs. He has looked at other cities that permit ADUs. None of them are the size of Arden Hills. ADUs come in a lot of different flavors. This has been touted as expanding housing and they'll solve the housing shortage problem. It didn't work well for Minneapolis. If we allow detached, the best placement would be in the front yard because utilities are accessible rather than running to the back yard. He asked if Staff agreed. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said yes, most are in the front yard. Councilmember Monson asked if that is an attached structure or two structures. Mayor Grant said a detached structure. City Administrator Jagoe clarified the utilities are out front. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the availability of the utility infrastructure is in front, in the street. Mayor Grant said if you go by the average resident and say your neighbor ordered a tiny house and it will be in the front yard. The neighbor will ask why we allow that. He doesn't think there are very many residents that would take advantage of that. We're a small city. We aren't going to solve the housing shortage by allowing ADUs. He thinks it opens a can of worms that we don't want to open. Then when talking about attached ADUs, it's a way to violate setbacks. Councilmember Weber said the Planning Commission had a short discussion about this recently. That discussion focused on basement ADUs. He doesn't think front yard ADUs is reasonable for Arden Hills. He understands that access to utilities is easier from the front yard, however, utilities can run under buildings. He doesn't think it is unreasonable to allow a detached rear ADU. He thinks the primary focus for Arden Hills is going to be the basement ADUs. He thinks that is a huge benefit for the aging population. Younger families move into these homes and maintain them and seniors don't need to move out of their homes. He thinks it would be huge benefit to the City. He is interested in continuing to learn more about ADUs. Councilmember Monson thinks we can ban front yard ADUs. She likes ADUs because they allow for incremental growth. She doesn't know if it will solve the housing shortage but it's not just another 200-unit senior living complex. This allows us to have something in between. She strongly believes in personal property rights and thinks if people want to have multi -generations, whether a parent or a college student, they should have a right to do that. In the world today, it is very difficult to buy a home. There are people who simply can't purchase. It might be nice to have a detached option. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 10 Councilmember Weber referenced an email that was received by Council that had a video attachment. The concept is the parents own a large parcel with a big house on it, the kids can't afford to buy a house. They tear down the big house and build four houses on the lot. It worked and the kids didn't have a mortgage. Mayor Grant pointed out that Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen was saying it was easier to access utilities if the infrastructure was in front, but didn't say it was impossible to extend them to the back yard. Councilmember Weber wasn't implying that Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen thought that. Mayor Grant said regarding ADUs in a back yard, a lot of residents back up to a wood land or a lake. It is problematic to put a detached ADU in a back yard. Picture that a house has a nice view of the lake and then there is another ADU sitting the back. Now you're impacting that view. In the zoning code you are not allowed to block the view of the lake. There is a calculation based on shoreline and ordinary high water mark. In Arden Hills people enjoy their back yards. People move here because we have a lot of nature. We have back yards that have some privacy. Having ADUs in the back yard could affect that. Councilmember Monson said we don't have to allow detached ADUs. Mayor Grant agrees. He thinks detached ADUs in Arden Hills will pose some problems. He will have to do a little more research on basement ADUs. Councilmember Weber pointed out the regulations as related to disturbing someone's view, are self-regulating. Those codes already exist. Not including a detached ADU because it might impact another code that would already control that aspect, doesn't make sense. He agrees detached ADUs may not be right for Arden Hills but he would like to see more information on it. He believes some of these already exist. Mayor Grant said having that code in place regarding view may negate the option to placing and ADU in the back yard. He thinks, whether in front or back, there are issues with detached ADUs. City Administrator Jagoe said she is hearing there is an interest to bring this topic back to the Council for a more robust discussion. She can request the consultants to give a recommendation of where that may best fit in but that we won't review that immediately, if Council is good with that. She said in looking at the list, there are 19 factors that need to be considered in order to get to ordinance language. She thinks this would be an item could be placed on a work session once there is a Community Development Director on Staff. She doesn't think this can be taken on until that happens. The consultants won't do anything more with it as part of their zoning review. Councilmember Weber thinks we may want to consider allowing basement ADUs. Mayor Grant said that City Administrator Jagoe could tell the consultants that Council had a discussion of detached front and back yard ADUs and that Council didn't think that was going to happen. The discussion regarding basement ADUs is more likely appropriate for Arden Hills. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 11 City Administrator Jagoe said there will be some of the same variables that would come it to play with this topic to include short term rentals. She feels she has good direction on this topic to follow up with the consultants. Mayor Grant said other cities state it needs to be a family member. What happens when the property is sold to somebody else? City Administrator Jagoe said that is one of those variables that cities are encountering. There are a lot of discussion items surrounding this topic. Mayor Grant said there are a number of cities that allow these in the back yard and it has grown over time. If they had requirements, with the growth, it's probably not a family member anymore. Councilmember Monson said she thinks California has a massive housing issue and there is probably very little regulation on who lives there and whether it's being rented or not. City Administrator Jagoe said the last piece the consultants are seeking direction on is whether or not to split the District Requirement Table into one that is lot standards and one that is site standards. It is a suggestion for being more user friendly for how residents and developers obtain their information. The next update for the Planning Commission in April will be on some discussion items to do with Commercial and Industrial Districts as well as signage. Councilmember Weber said he would like to discuss B-3 and B-4. He has mentioned that B-4 does not act as a retail center. We are putting strictly retail businesses back there. The consultant stated that was the only thing holding him up from combining B-3 and B-4 into one district. He'd like to move forward with that. At the time he said Cannabis retail was the only use allowed, but now there is a thrift store. He would like to know what else is in B-4 that isn't allowed anywhere else. What other uses would prevent us from combining B-3 and B-4. The consultant specifically said B-4 does not act as a retail center in Arden Hills. If we are deciding exclusive retail uses in that area, he would like that addressed as well. Councilmember Monson said she liked how they described it as a Corridor Business and a Business Park. That is a good description of how it's actually used. She also thinks we need to solve the problem with putting retail business back in a Business Park. That just doesn't set businesses up for success. That is an important distinction for a business's success. She doesn't know where home businesses fall. She remembers there was a home occupancy business come through and it got to be too much for an ordinance change to allow them to sell plants or seeds, whatever the resident was selling. She would like to lift restrictions where the home occupancy businesses have pathways to success. Mayor Grant said the zoning along Lexington is B-3 and retail exists there, as it should. He thinks B-4 is more of a Business Park. There are reasons for having the two zones. Once you get too far into that area, you are out of the flow of traffic. That makes it more difficult to succeed as a retail establishment. He thought B-3 could be expanded, to give it a little more depth. He doesn't think having retail in the back of B-4 is realistic. It could be office, light manufacturing but not retail. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 12 Councilmember Weber said that addresses his main concern. Getting those B-4 businesses into an area where they are viable is what is important to him. Whether it is taking those uses and moving them into B-3 or combining the two districts. Mayor Grant agrees with some of the points brought up, but he does not think the two should be combined. Councilmember Monson said the I -FLEX district sounds a lot like B-4. City Administrator Jagoe said the Commercial Districts will be discussed at the April Planning Commission meeting. There hasn't been a lot of discussion yet. She clarified that the consultants are requesting direction on the base zoning district names. She will tell the consultants to start honing in on the uses and show the Planning Commission in April. The Council will see it again, after that discussion. C. Odds and Ends Again Discussion Mayor Grant stated that a thrift store business owner approached the City about a year ago. He asked where thrift stores are permitted. The City learned that about a year later he decided to open in a location where it was not allowed, per the Zoning Code. The owner was told he could approach the City to have the zoning changed. He won't do that. We are in a position where there is a non -compliant use happening in one of our Business Districts. He wants to make sure Council is on the same page about what we are going to do. Councilmember Weber thinks this would have been an important conversation to include the entire Council. He has been researching this over the past month. He has met with the business owner several times. They weren't all great meetings. He thinks this discussion is right in line with the previous discussion regarding the uses in B-4. If thrift and cannabis were relegated to B- 4 as a means of not wanting it to be visible on our main thoroughfares. He thinks it was a reaction to Goodwill opening in 2016. He looked through the minutes for the assignment of the use of thrift into B-4 in 2016 and he doesn't feel like there was a good, or any, justification given other than personal preference as to why thrift was assigned to B-4 only. His point of view is, we already have Goodwill in B-2. He has been in the store in question. He likes the store and the business model. He likes the use. We have a large senior population that may be moving out of their homes. For anyone not aware, this business owner meets with seniors who are looking to downsize and comes up with a plan to get them into smaller housing and he sells their belongings on consignment. That is the business model, as the business owner presented it to him. The items in his store are not the same as Goodwill, where you have a lot of items that people don't want. This business owner has nice things for sale. As far as the zoning code goes, the items are used. He wouldn't classify it as the same level of wear that you find at Goodwill. He would like to see thrift added into B-2. He doesn't feel like there was justification given in 2016 other than personal preference. Councilmember Monson thinks the business owner put himself in a difficult position. She is sympathetic to that. She thanked Staff for enduring some of those discussions and maintaining professionalism. If you move in, you know you're not allowed there, you treat Staff poorly and then you don't come with a solution. You did not apply for the text amendment. That was the solution. Staff could not have individually or administratively waive away the problem. That being said, it's clear the public really wants and really likes thrift, consignment, antique shops. It ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 13 has to be somewhere that retail can succeed. That will have to be B-2 or B-3. If there is consensus on an ordinance amendment, do we want to continue enforcing it in the meantime? Mayor Grant does not want to add thrift into the B-2 District. So, this is non -compliant by definition. Staff and Planning Commission should not be put in the position of having to overlook the zoning code. We are trying to guide the development of the City to its best use. That shopping area is one of our more coveted spots. He thinks there is a place for thrift store. We have Goodwill. We are a small community. He would not vote to add thrift store into B-2. Councilmember Monson understands the desire to select who gets to come in and shape the City. Zoning isn't always the right tool for that. The market sometimes makes the decision for us. The City doesn't have an EDA that says we really want something specific in a certain location because our community could use it. Then we could go seek it, find it and create incentives. Without that, she has a hard time using zoning as a way to exclude certain uses. She actually agrees that it would be nice to be able to select what we have. She has been to this store and she liked it. She thinks it's more of an antiques shop vs. a thrift store. Mayor Grant said zoning, by definition, permits some uses and not others. Councilmember Monson agreed, it is a tool. Councilmember Weber said if our two coveted zones are B-2 and B-3 are the only viable retail centers in Arden Hills and thrift is forced to be in B-4, he doesn't see how a change is warranted right now. He asked if Mayor Grant thought B-3 was acceptable for a thrift store. Mayor Grant said no. B-3 would be right along Lexington. Councilmember Weber asked how a thrift store is supposed to survive in Arden Hills. If we pick which businesses can and can't survive. Setting aside this specific business, as far as thrift stores goes, he thinks there is a strong desire for it, and he thinks B-2 is a good fit. As for this particular business, he would like to see this move forward fast and get it on the next available Council agenda for a decision. He said with two Councilmembers absent, he assumes that will be April. City Administrator Jagoe sought clarification on decision. She asked if he meant a Work Session for a recommendation of the full Council to act. The Planning Commission will have to hear this first. Councilmember Weber said he hopes to see it at the next available Planning Commission meeting followed by the next available City Council Meeting. He said adding the discussion to the agenda tonight takes the place of having a future Work Session on it. Mayor Grant said we are short two Councilmembers. Councilmember Weber understands that but the issue is in front of us. Mayor Grant said this is a discussion we need to have and be in agreement. Councilmember Weber said we are having the discussion. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 14 City Administrator Jagoe said if the direction is to bring it to Planning Commission there is a lot more that Staff would want to know from the Council. She asked if we should mirror our current standards for thrift stores and what we evaluate for the conditional use permit criteria. Or do we want to look at the bigger picture of what are the properties within B-2 and B-3 and what do we require for the conditional use permit today? In zoning we can't look at an individual business. We look at the land use as a whole, what those land uses will generate in terms of other types of ancillary factors; outdoor storage, traffic and other things. Then we would also look at the zoning district. We wouldn't try to narrow it down so much that we are looking at one location but we look at the district as a whole. If Council wants this to go to Planning Commission, are you simply looking for us to put it on the table or do you want to look at the bigger picture? If you do, then we will need more direction, and it may be better to bring it back to another Work Session to get direction. The Planning Commission may spin over how much they should be looking at when we don't know, from the Council to what depth do we go to add this use. Mayor Grant said Staff would probably want a vote from Council to direct them. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. Maybe that's the April Work Session where Council can discuss any direction from tonight. Councilmember Weber pointed out there is a quorum tonight. He agrees with that. He would like to propose delaying enforcement on any businesses impacted by the potential outcome of this resolution, effective tonight. Mayor Grant said we don't vote at Work Sessions. Councilmember Monson said we can give Staff direction. She asked if Councilmember Weber is asking that Staff not enforce. Mayor Grant said we need to enforce our Zoning Code. City Administrator Jagoe said if Staff was going to delay enforcement she would ask Council to give some secondary direction on what they would like Staff to do, in absence of enforcement. Councilmember Monson asked what the deadline was. City Administrator Jagoe said the deadline given to the business owner was March 3rd Councilmember Monson asked what is the timeline for him to remove his stuff or be out? City Administrator Jagoe said April 30ch Councilmember Weber said it has been indicated that there is no intent to apply for anything. That might change down the road. He said the deadline is firm for the move out date. He asked if there would be time to bring this back to Council before the deadline. City Administrator Jagoe said no. It needs to go to the Planning Commission first. Staff would not be able to get more feedback from the Council prior to that. Councilmember Weber doesn't know the best way to address this. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 15 Councilmember Monson said the store is closed. City Administrator Jagoe said no. Councilmember Monson said he has it open until April 30th. We could do an additional discussion to clarify whether we want to do a simple swap out for B-4 for B-3 in the table or whether we're going to talk about conditional uses. That discussion would include the full five Council in April. That would give direction to draft something to bring to Planning Commission in May. Then Council could review it in May. If we want to delay enforcement for an additional 30-days, that's doable. Councilmember Weber agreed. It would be firmly enforced after that additional 30-days. City Administrator Jagoe said she won't communicate a delay of enforcement. She's hearing that Council would like to see this at the April 14th Work Session for discussion. Nothing additional needs to happen at this point, because there will be direction given in April. Council recessed the work session at 6:53 pm. Council reconvened the work session at 8:25 pm. D. State of the City City Administrator Jagoe said she was seeking future planning discussion topics for the State of the City. She asked for direction on timing and location of the event. This typically takes three to four months for Staff to arrange from start to finish. This will be one of the first projects the new Communications Coordinator will be tasked with. She will bring back the topics list at a later discussion. For tonight she is seeking direction on timing and possible location. Councilmember Weber said he is happy to let the other Councilmembers take the lead, as he has no experience in regard to this event. Councilmember Monson said it was successful when it took place in February. She hasn't experienced one in the fall. She didn't think summer is a good time. The February event was good because of the cancelled second meeting and it allowed Staff more room to plan and create the power points. It's a lot of work for Staff. Mayor Grant thinks maybe September, after the kids are back in school and when we have hired a Communications Coordinator. Councilmember Monson would be okay with that. She said it would be nice to set a standard time every year. Mayor Grant said it varies every couple years because we have elections. We try not to have it right before an election. Councilmember Weber said it's better to have it before an election than after. Being new, he would feel a lot more comfortable holding that event in September vs. right now because he just started. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 16 Councilmember Monson thought holding it at City Hall went well. Everyone knows where it is. Mayor Grant thinks the event that was the best attended was at The Tavern Grill. Councilmember Monson said she thought attendance was good last year. She thought there were about 25 attendees. Mayor Grant said there were a lot more when it was at The Tavern Grill. Councilmember Weber assumed there would be a significant difference in funding to hold it at City Hall vs. a restaurant. Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Hanson remembers it being relatively inexpensive when we started there. It was free to be there and then they charged $5.00 a person. They did increase that over time. Councilmember Monson also likes that it can be televised from City Hall. Mayor Grant said we televised it from there, as well. He isn't necessarily saying we should have it at The Tavern Grill, but the food is good. Maybe that contributed to having good attendance. Councilmember Monson is open to trying it somewhere else. Mayor Grant said Staff can look at some options. He doesn't think holding it at City Hall is bad. Councilmember Monson said she is fine with having it in September and with Staff bringing back costs to hold it at a couple of different locations in the City. City Administrator Jagoe said Staff will bring back some more information when we have the first meeting when setting the date with the Communications Coordinator. E. Code of Conduct Policy City Administrator Jagoe provided the draft Committee and Commission Code of Conduct as well as Resolution 2016-22 which was the City Council Norms of Behavior. Staff is looking for direction on next steps. This follows the February 10"' work session when Council requested this be brought back tonight. Both items have been provided to Council and reviewed previously. City Administrator Jagoe said the Committee and Commission Code of Conduct policy development began in 2023 and 2024 between Mayor Grant and Councilmember Rousseau. The former City Attorney also provided some guidance. At that time, one member of each of the Committees and Commissions were given an opportunity to provide comment. This is the last form of the draft Code of Conduct policy, as revised after discussion. City Administrator Jagoe said Resolution 2016-22, the City Council Norms of Behavior was previously adopted. Staff is looking for direction if the Council feels if that is still sufficient or if it needs to be updated. Included with the memo are minutes from the special work session related to the League of Minnesota Cities Insurance Trust Collaboration Services. That discussion was surrounding similar discussion items. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 17 Councilmember Weber asked for clarification that this is a discussion on the Committees and Commissions Code of Conduct. Mayor Grant said it was originally designed just for Council and then somehow it went to Committees and Commissions. Councilmember Weber doesn't think we should be imposing any requirements on behavior if it doesn't also apply to Council. That part was confusing to him because the previous discussion was regarding Council. Councilmember Monson said there was a committee member who made it clear that we needed to have a process around it. She doesn't like that the process has to go to personnel. She thinks the Council has the full right to decide who does and does not serve on a committee. She doesn't think it has to go through personnel. She wouldn't want to take that right away from Council. Her only issue is the time it would take to work through personnel. How long do other commission or committee members have to be uncomfortable? She doesn't understand the intent of it going to personnel who would make a recommendation to Council. She wants to preserve the option that Council doesn't have to go through the Personnel Committee. We can appoint them and we can remove them. She would like that built in. Councilmember Monson said, in regard to the resolution for Council, it has already been accepted but she would like to expand on it. She distributed a document in 2024 that builds out a little more. In 2016 there were clearly dynamics that were happening. She could live with the versions presented. She doesn't intend to stop them from progressing. Mayor Grant said the concept of the Personnel Committee, if he remembers right, was that was Councilmember Rousseau's preference. As you are dealing with personnel matters, are we at the Council level going to meet publicly and air the dirty laundry? If it goes to the Personnel Committee it can be dealt with privately. Councilmember Weber said the biggest issue for him with the Personnel Committee is that if the conflict is a member of the Personnel Committee, then we're down to just one person on the two person committee making the decision. He thinks it's reasonable and it should be implied that the Council is going to have oversight. If an issue is brought before Council and a Councilmember wants to bypass the Personnel Committee in reviewing it, the Council can move on it. He hopes this isn't a regular occurrence. If there is a major issue it should go through Council. Councilmember Monson thought we could add language that says the Council or an appointee who observes or experiences the behavior may choose to go to Personnel or may choose the Council. With the bottom line being, Council has ultimate say. Mayor Grant said that Council always has the ultimate say. Councilmember Monson understands but the document reads like an issue has to go to the Personnel Committee and she would like to have it explicitly say it can go straight to Council. Councilmember Weber said a closed -door session could be used, just the same if there were an issue with a City employee. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 18 Mayor Grant said there was a highlighted section in one of the documents that said `Be kind." He thinks it was originally drafted for Council. There were norms before that, that as Councilmembers we should speak for ourselves. There are exceptions. Sometimes he gets phone calls and he has to speak on behalf of the City. He doesn't do it all that often. He notices sometimes people aren't always speaking for themselves from the Council bench. Councilmember Monson agrees. She thinks the norms are interesting but they don't address all of the issues that this Council has had over the last couple of years. She thinks we should split them in terms of the discussion. She thinks the Committee and Commission Code of Conduct specifically outlines that it doesn't have to bypass Council and go to Personnel first, she is fine with it. Mayor Grant agrees the language of the Committee and Commission Code of Conduct. He would like it kept in mind that it was originally drafted for Council. There should be a line in there that people speak for themselves and not on behalf of the whole committee or Council. We are all individuals. We have differing opinions but they are each our opinions. We need to respect each other. Sometimes in committees that can be an issue. Council is basically a committee. Councilmember Monson does not like the Personnel process for the Council. She doesn't think that is appropriate. She asked if Mayor Grant is saying that he wants this to apply to the City Council, as well. Mayor Grant said originally, that's where we were going. City Administrator Jagoe said at first glance, it reads like it is for the City Council. When you look at the statements, it is for City Councilmembers who are interacting with an appointee. The Norms of Council Behavior are for Council interacting with each other and with Staff, which is what the resolution outlines. The Committee and Commission Code of Conduct, as drafted, is Council interactions with Committee and Commission members and members' interactions with each other. Mayor Grant said for historical context, some of the meetings at the start of 2023 were kind of contentious. He thinks this Council has gelled a little more since then. That's where we started designing these for Council. Then there was the issue with a particular committee member. That shifted the focus. Councilmember Monson asked if Mayor Grant likes it and would like to go on Consent or would he like to edit. Mayor Grant thinks the item of people speaking for themselves should be added. Councilmember Weber asked if he was saying the first item in the resolution should be added to the Code of Conduct. The items states "Speak for only yourself, not for other Councilmembers." Councilmember Monson said even when a Council Liaison sits on a committee they aren't speaking for the Council, as a whole. Mayor Grant said there have been times where Councilmembers and Committee members have held outside meetings and tried to persuade others of the Council's position. It wasn't really the Council's position, it was that one person's. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 19 Councilmember Monson said it would be hard to control what someone says outside. She doesn't know what other members say to constituents. She isn't going to police that. Mayor Grant said this has happened from the bench and with outside meetings with developers. People have tried to convince developers that they were speaking for the Planning Commission. Councilmember Monson said in that situation it's on the developer. They should be smarter than that. Mayor Grant said we should be smarter than that, too. We should say if you are on the Council or on a committee or commission you speak for yourself. Councilmember Weber sees one glaring issue with that. As the Liaison it is your duty to speak to the committees and commissions, when they ask questions, on behalf of the Council. We aren't promoting our own agenda, but we are speaking on behalf of Council. Mayor Grant said we can have a whole discussion on the liaison role. It is not intended to lead the committee. It is not a voting position. It's a resource. Sometimes you offer an opinion. The liaison is not there speaking for the Council. They are there to take information from the meeting and come back to Council with what the committees are doing. Some liaisons may get more involved with their committees. They are always speaking on behalf of themselves and their own views. Councilmember Monson said that doesn't apply for the Fire Board. We are voting on what the City wants to do. Councilmember Weber said there is a liaison item to be discussed on the Agenda Planning list. He thinks this is beyond the scope of this discussion. Councilmember Monson said overall, she is okay with the Code of Conduct. She want's something separate for the Council. Mayor Grant said the bottom line is "be kind". Can we legislate that? Councilmember Monson asked if Mayor Grant wants "be kind" removed. Mayor Grant said no, he thinks it needs to be in there. There were some inappropriate swipes at the last meeting. Someone indicated that he and Councilmember Holden should have made a comment about something we knew nothing about. A former Councilmember passed away. Neither he nor Councilmember Holden knew that. There was an accusation questioning why we didn't bring it up. Those kinds of things shouldn't have a place here. He thinks that wasn't kind. Councilmember Monson doesn't want to legislate all of the things that have happened between Councilmembers at the dais. She isn't sure if Mayor Grant is trying to open that box, but to try to close it, she doesn't know what he wants to do with the document in front of us. Mayor Grant said if you like it for committees then we should use it for committees. If we decide to edit it or add to it, we can do that later. He thinks this is a good starting point. Relative ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 20 to the committee issue that happened a year ago. He doesn't think that specific incident would pass the "be kind" test. Councilmember Weber said he agrees. He thinks the best path is to separate the two topics. There are two Councilmembers missing and their input will be valuable in determining Councilmember Code of Conduct. He agrees the commissions' document is fine. Mayor Grant said we still need to have some norms for Council. The difference for Council is it's always televised. City Administrator Jagoe asked if the Council is directing Staff to move forward with the Commission and Committee Code of Conduct for Council approval at the April 14`h Council Meeting and bring Resolution 2016-22 Norms of Behavior for City Council back for discussion at the April 141h Work Session. Council agreed. City Administrator Jagoe asked if Council wanted Staff to add the language discussed regarding bypassing Personnel to go straight to City Council and that members speak for themselves. Discussion ensued regarding the additional language. City Administrator Jagoe said she will make those two edits and then bring it back for adoption on April 14''. F. Agenda Planning City Administrator Jagoe said the Old Snelling speed limit discussion will be on April 14'' Work Session. The Norms of Behavior will be discussed, as well. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen requested the speed limit discussion be pushed out to the second April meeting. There is a speed display sign on Old Snelling. He wants to pull the speed data off the sign. He doesn't know if he will have time by the first meeting. City Administrator Jagoe said with that item being bumped, the agenda will be the City Council Norms of Behavior and the thrift store B-2/13-3 use discussion. Councilmember Monson asked about the Old Highway 10 and Lake Johanna trail funding. She doesn't want to run up against a bunch of deadlines. She wonders if we have a plan. If we don't get any more funding or grants, when will it happen, and how will we pay for it? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said we will know if we are awarded the MNDOT Safe Routes to School Grant for Old Highway 10 on April 30"'. It is slated for the first meeting in May to discuss next steps with that project, whether we get the grant or not. Mayor Grant asked if we have a State. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. Met Council Regional Solicitation. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 21 Councilmember Monson said something we haven't been able to get done over the past couple years is strategy. It would help Staff knows what we want them to prioritize. Once we get to budget season, in July, we know what we want to spend our money on. She would like to strategically line up those priorities. It isn't fun going into budgeting when there is no alignment, in terms of strategy. She said Mayor Grant was against that last year and she wondered if he thinks any differently about it now. Mayor Grant said he agrees with Councilmember Monson's earlier comment on knowing what the funding gap is on Old 10 Trail. Councilmember Monson said she was speaking more broadly about budget. She said it's a day and a half or maybe it was whittled down to a day. Mayor Grant asked if she was talking about a retreat that happened in years past. Councilmember Monson confirmed. Mayor Grant asked when she is proposing to have the retreat. Councilmember Monson said it would have to happen soon. She thought it would have to be in April because budgeting is coming up. Mayor Grant thought budget discussions would begin the first week in June. Finance Director Yang said we usually discuss CIP toward the end of June. Mayor Grant said he thinks Staff would have to put something together. It would have to be a weekend. Councilmember Monson has some flexibility on Fridays. Discussion ensued regarding a date could not be agreed upon last time and how to coordinate schedules to make this happen in April or May. City Administrator Jagoe said she would have to double check, but she didn't think there was any funds budgeted for the services. We knew how much the consultant services would be. She doesn't recall budgeting anything for this year. She will verify and will follow up to confirm what the cost would be. Finance Director Yang verified that $10,000 was budgeted for Strategic Planning. G. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion This item was not discussed. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MARCH 10, 2025 22 4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES ADJOURN Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Work Session at 9:05 p.m. . J---- -- L "-4�1 qstling David Grant Deputy Clerk Mayor