HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-14-25 WS'It
EN HILLS
Approved: May 12, 2025
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
APRIL 14, 2025
5:30 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor David Grant called to order the City
Council Work Session at 5:30 p.m.
Present: Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Kurt Weber, Emily Rousseau
Brenda Holden and Tena Monson
Absent: None
Also present: City Administrator Jessica Jagoe; Public Works Director/City Engineer
David Swearingen; Finance Director Joua Yang and Assistant to the City
Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson
1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL
Mayor Grant noted many people were in attendance. He invited members from the public to
speak.
Nick Tamble, 2800 Laport Drive, Mounds View and Seth Baetzol, 2343 Larpenteur Avenue,
Maplewood. They wanted to speak on an economic impact item. He held an Ice Swim event in
Arden Hills on February 22, 2025. They cut a 25-foot hole in Lake Johanna. The event hosted 100
swimmers, from across the United States and included some international participants. The
economic impact of that day was about $150,000. They planned the event in 14 weeks. Tickets
sold out in 20 days. Ice dipping is a growing activity. Ice swimming is likely to be an Olympic
event in 2030. He is looking ahead to January of 2026 where the economic impact would likely
exceed $1 million. He understands there is funding available for this type of event. He thinks this
would be a good event to pursue those funds for.
Councilmember Holden said the request is pursuing Twin Cities Gateway Funding to advertise
next year's event.
Seth Baetzol gave the history of Ice Swimming. These events started in Europe but they are
beginning to popularize in the United States. The event in Arden Hills this year was scheduled on
the same day as another Ice Swim event in Vermont. The hope is, if the Arden Hills event is held
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 2
on a separate date, they could attract some of those swimmers and increase the economic impact
this event will have. They will give some of the money to the International Ice Swimming
Association to get more attention on the Arden Hills event. He shared about several famous and
renowned people who attended, and the hope is that even more will help spread the message
about the Arden Hills event.
Mayor Grant asked if they are requesting that this event be eligible for Twin Cities Gateway
Funding.
Seth Baetzol confirmed.
Mayor Grant said the Council will take that up under an agenda item. Money the City receives
are limited to advertising. The Gateway Visitor's Bureau has a wider latitude if they wish to fund
the event.
Councilmember Rousseau asked if he was pursuing the Net Regional Grant from the Twin
Cities Gateway, as well.
Nick Tamble confirmed. He has a meeting next week to discuss that. He said there are several
avenues for them to explore.
Mayor Grant asked if anyone else in the audience wished to speak about anything other than the
Thrift Store Zoning. Seeing none, he read the Public Inquiries and Informational standards to
include stating name and address for the record, speak for three minutes or less and understanding
that Council may not respond to inquiries at the same meeting where the issue was brought forth.
He invited the public in attendance to step to the front.
Brett Foss, 13392 Geneva Way, Apple Valley — He is the owner at Odds and Ends Thrift Store.
He brought people who are in support of his business. He is asking for the process and hear what
the Council has to say on what can be done to continue operating his business. He has 600
signatures from people. He has local business owners who are supporting him. He said thousands
of people have reached out to him, not just because this was on the news. He understands the
desire to not have another Goodwill. That is not his business. There is no donation or drop off
lane. There is no garbage or other chaos going on. The biggest thing he has taken from this
experience is that people are supportive of small business in this community, and they want their
voices heard. He said people requested that he return to speak to the Council on their behalf. He is
open to answer any questions and discuss his options.
Councilmember Holden reminded that this is the Public Inquiries and Informational agenda
item. The Council does not respond or ask questions.
Brett Foss said he understands. He thinks there are several other people here to voice their
support. He left a copy of the documents he prepared with Staff.
Carol Goodson 1701 Hollywood Avenue NE, Minneapolis — She requests that Council work
with the owner so that he can remain in their current location. Most people don't think of Odds
and Ends Again as a thrift store. They say it's closer to an antique or vintage store or boutique.
They don't take general consignments. All of their items are from the family homes of the clients
that they help. The sale of these items helps the clients pay for their move or other expenses. The
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 3
focus has been on zoning. There is more to the overall picture of what they do. They are a part of
a family of businesses operating at this location. Senior Life Management is the parent company
and the overall umbrella whose mission is to help seniors in transition. There are home
maintenance plans and handy man services to help seniors who want to stay in their homes. The
realty brokerage arm of Senior Life Management helps clients sell their home or buy a new one.
Sort Toss Pack helps when a client is ready to move, or they just want to declutter in preparation
for a future move. The sorting is done at the client's home. Odds and Ends Again is the retail arm
that sells the items from Sort Toss Pack. This store brings value to the community. The shop is a
destination for many people. They come to Arden Hills specifically to shop in this store. Odds
and Ends Again sells solid furniture at affordable prices. This is a retail store, taking space that
had been vacant for quite some time. If the store remains in this location, more staff will be hired.
She is requesting that the Council work with the business owner to keep this small business open.
Anita Alexander, 1355 Indian Oaks Trail — She said in light of the tough small business
environment and in light of the fact that so many businesses are closing, she is confused why the
City wouldn't try to change the zoning laws in order to allow a viable business to remain
operating. They are paying taxes. We want money to come in. She is confused. Councilmember
Holden helped her understand what the company would have to do. That wasn't in writing from
any other Work Session meeting minutes stating how much it would cost to change the zoning.
She really wants the Council to look at it and see why we would not do everything we can to keep
this business there, rather than moving them out and thinking something else will come in.
Toni Wellwooding, 120 Demont Avenue E, Little Canada — She works for Senior Life
Management in the Sort Toss Pack area. She outlined how the shop generates business for
surrounding businesses, through referrals and patronage. She shared personal memories from
specific clients. She thinks expecting the business owner to apply and pay for something without
knowing if it will be approved is wrong.
Jannette Wasnin, 111021 Larpenteur Avenue, Roseville — She is a regular customer of this store.
She was heartbroken when it closed. She was so happy to learn they reopened. She has helped
spread the word that they are here. It will be a great disservice to this community if he's not
allowed to stay.
Katrina Evenfelt, 249 Poplar Drive, Shoreview — She is a regular customer from when it was
open in the prior location. She has found unique and good quality items for her daughter's and
mother's homes. This business provides essential services for people who are downsizing or
looking for new furniture. She can't see how it could be decided that it would be beneficial for
them to go elsewhere. If this store remains open it will bring new customers, bring tax dollars and
benefit nearby businesses.
Alicia Waltman, 1316 Indian Oaks Circle — She has been a resident for 37 years. She purchases
clothing and furniture second hand, to afford to live in Arden Hills. There is a need for these types
of stores. The economy is terrible. Thrifters are a community. She doesn't understand why Arden
Hills doesn't want this store.
2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES
None.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 4
3. AGENDA ITEMS
A. Thrift Store Use Zoning Standards
Senior Planner Fransen presented the information regarding current zoning language for thrift
store uses for Council's discussion and consideration. She pointed to the Staff memo that outlined
historic background of previous city reviews of businesses with the thrift store characteristics and
the definitions used for those reviews.
Senior Planner Fransen said in 2015 the Council approved a PUD amendment to allow for the
construction of a Goodwill at County Road E and Lexington Avenue. The business was classified
as a retail sales and services use. There was no thrift store definition, at the time. The use was
permitted. In 2016, a separate thrift store definition was added and it was incorporated into the
code. With these amendments the definition for retail sales and services was updated and
additional conditional use permit criteria for thrift store uses were added to the code. Thrift store
uses were added as a use allowable by conditional use permit in the B-4 and I Flex zoning
districts. At that time, existing thrift stores in the B-2 zoning district would be grandfathered in.
Senior Planner Fransen said Staff surveyed how 11 neighboring communities define and
regulate retail sales/services and thrift store uses. Six of the I l communities include separate
definitions for the two uses. Of those six, two communities zone thrift store use separately from
retail businesses. In five of the 11 communities a second-hand dealer license is required. Of those
five, one community requires a conditional use permit and a license. She said Staff is seeking
direction on the zoning of thrift store use.
Mayor Grant asked for the definition of thrift store.
Senior Planner Fransen said a thrift store is currently defined as `a business for which the stock
of goods is primarily used and may include the following operational characteristics. 1) Receipt of
used items directly from the public at the business location. 2) Processing, conditioning, cleaning
or repair of used or returned items for resale. 3) Storage of used items onsite for processing, resale
or disposal. 4) Receipt of goods through purchase, consignment or donation.
Mayor Grant asked Senior Planner Fransen to recount her first meeting with Brett Foss, the
owner.
Councilmember Weber brought a point of order that this discussion is surrounding thrift use, not
Odds and Ends.
Mayor Grant said Council can discuss whatever it wants to talk about.
Councilmember Weber understands that but wanted to point out that the item on the agenda is
thrift store use, not the history of Odds and Ends in Arden Hills.
Mayor Grant believes they are part and parcel to each other. We just had several people testify
specifically about Odds and Ends. It is appropriate to ask Staff about their interactions with Odds
and Ends.
Councilmember Holden asked who has the floor.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 5
Councilmember Weber said he just made a point of order.
Mayor Grant said he does.
Councilmember Holden said Councilmember Weber is talking over Mayor Grant. She
doesn't want two people talking at the same time.
Mayor Grant said he has the floor but a Councilmember can raise a point of order, but that
doesn't give him the floor afterward. He has made his ruling.
Councilmember Weber requests Council consideration.
Mayor Grant said Council doesn't take votes at work sessions.
Councilmember Weber said we are discussing something that is not on the agenda.
Mayor Grant said we are discussing thrift store use.
Councilmember Weber understands. We are discussing whether we should do something with
thrift store use in the City of Arden Hills zoning code, not the history of Odds and Ends. He said
those are two different topics.
Councilmember Holden is confused because the whole purpose of this topic being on the agenda
is because people said the City isn't doing what we should do for this small business. Any rule
change is for this one small business. Therefore, she doesn't understand why we can't ask about
the history.
Mayor Grant asked if Senior Planner Fransen was approached by anyone in February of 2024
and if she explained the process for changing the zoning in that specific district, so they could
move in.
Senior Planner Fransen confirmed at that time she was contacted by Mr. Foss with questions
about the zoning code for a different property, within Arden Hills, and if a thrift store use would
be permitted. That property was located in the I-1 Zoning District. She told Mr. Foss that use was
not permitted in the zoning code. She shared information with Mr. Foss about next steps, for the
process to amend the zoning code for that district.
Mayor Grant asked if Mr. Foss followed through with the process after she advised him of the
requirements.
Senior Planner Fransen said he indicated that he was not interested in moving forward at that
particular property.
Mayor Grant asked if anyone has submitted an application to change any zoning district to
include thrift stores.
Senior Planner Fransen said no.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 6
Mayor Grant asked if there was any documentation, in writing, that Mr. Foss received this
information.
Senior Planner Fransen confirmed she communicated via email to convey next steps for that
property.
Mayor Grant asked Senior Planner Fransen if it is her opinion that Mr. Foss understood he
would need to apply for a zoning change or conditional use permit.
Senior Planner Fransen said she outlined the process for allowing it but did not share the
conditional use permit requirement. She conveyed that she would work with him on next steps, if
that were involved. If he had moved forward with an amendment to the zoning code, she would
have mentioned how it was permitted by conditional use permit in the zoning districts where it is
allowed.
Councilmember Rousseau said the Association of Retail Professionals lists three types of thrift
stores. She wonders if Council is planning to focus on a specific type of thrift or are we discussing
the overall use. How would that affect the code updates that are happening? She sees empty
buildings on Lexington. She understands some people are not fans of thrift stores but she would
not be opposed to a competitor of Goodwill going into one of those vacant buildings. She was
seeking clarity if the discussion is surrounding all types of thrift or just the one that fits in with
this particular business.
Councilmember Holden said she keeps hearing how the City is not being supportive of this
business. She thinks it's a viable business and it's great. She has the email that Senior Planner
Fransen sent to Mr. Foss. She outlined where the zoning would allow this business. He chose to
go somewhere different. Goodwill happened when the PUD changed the hotel to a college dorm.
We were told it was going to be an 8,000 sq. ft. building with hardly any traffic. Ramsey County
pushed back regarding the corner. Council objected to Goodwill based on those issues, not based
on what business it was. Savers and Salvation Army want to be here. The reason they want thrift
stores in this area is not for the sales but for the donations. Goodwill's entire model is based on
the donations from wealthier communities. That is why thrift stores were restricted. It had nothing
to do with personal preference. There was a lot of information the Council considered. It's
insulting to suggest it was just personal preference. If we say thrift stores are allowed, that's what
we're going to get. It was restricted to certain zoning districts because thrift stores tend to be a
destination location. She said the Tavern Grill wouldn't be here if we had a ton of thrift stores
along Lexington. From County Road D all the way down, this is the only strip mall there is. The
sentiment she is hearing is that this business owner should be doing what has been outlined for
him. He does get some items donated for free that he then sells. It's not strictly consignment. If
we change the definition to consignment, some of his inventory can't be sold. There are a lot of
things to look at. This business has a great model. She keeps hearing that the City should be
working with him. City Staff have met with him and communicated to him what his options are.
The only option he has chose is strong arming and bullying. She heard from a lot of people when
they started learning about the situation. She laid out how things actually went. The response has
been that the owner isn't telling anyone that he was told by the City what his options are. If he
had used his energy working on the steps outlined by the City, rather than emailing everyone on
his list, maybe something could have been accomplished. We have zoning for a reason. There are
processes in place to amend zoning. She is for conditional use permit. The gentleman doesn't
want to do that. He told staff he didn't want to.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 7
Councilmember Weber asked how many thrift applications the city received between the initial
application for Goodwill in 2013 and the zoning code amendment in 2015.
City Administrator Jagoe said zero.
Councilmember Weber said there was one response to an email that he didn't see from
Councilmember Holden that he was copied on. She stated that a bunch of thrift uses wanted to
move into our city. So, looking into it, it appears there were none.
Councilmember Holden said that's not true.
Councilmember Weber said it is difficult to rebut that. He read the minutes from the 2015 case.
There was no explanation, no valid reason, no statement that all of these thrift uses were going to
move in. It was brought up as a potential concern but no actual applications were received.
Arguing against a valid retail use in one of our retail zones is creating an issue that doesn't exist.
Councilmember Holden asked if Councilmember Weber read the minutes where the Salvation
Army came out, took Council on a tour of the building where they wanted to locate.
Councilmember Weber said if it wasn't part of that specific planning case, he did not. He can't
be expected to read minutes from every meeting since she took office.
Councilmember Holden said apparently he should as she is expected to go through the minutes
when she asks for a small easement on a piece of property, but the bottom line is there was no
application because the City told them we weren't interested in changing all the rules for their
business.
Councilmember Monson thinks there are two issues. One is exclusionary zoning and if we
should allow thrift in places where they can be successful within our zoning. Second we can
legislate poor choices by the owner of Odds and Ends at a later date, if he so chooses to come
forward, in the event we allow thrift stores. In her mind these are two different questions. For
today's conversation she would like to focus on thrift store use. She has so many questions. What
typeg of business does thrift store entail? What definitions should we be considering? Is that a
pawn shop? She needs to know what the definitions are and what they do and do not include. She
is open to restricting a stand-alone building. Maybe they can only be allowed in a strip mall. She
has a lot of questions regarding thrift or pre -owned items. How can we thread the needle in a way
that works for the community but also works for businesses? She thinks the business in question
is a good one. It can be successful here because of the foot traffic. There is direct and indirect
economic impact. Legislating the owner, today, probably isn't the right way to go. She wants the
public to understand the process to change and amend the code. We are in the process of
reviewing and cleaning up the zoning ordinance. That's a two year process to review
requirements surrounding conditional use permits vs. permitted uses for residential and
commercial zones. Council doesn't proactively go back to find problems. When someone comes
in and says something doesn't fit there are two options. The first one, and the path 99% of
businesses will take, is the business owner can come forward and say they would like a text
amendment. That is the path of integrity and respecting the City's ordinances and codes, even if
it's outdated. Option two is the Council chooses and actively decides to change the ordinance. In
March the discussion was if we want to make this ordinance change because the business owner
clearly has chosen he isn't taking the options laid out for him. Council has to decide if we are
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 8
going to make this change. She is in support of doing that. However, if we allow this, the business
owner probably has to come back to get a permit. She is open to Council discussing definitions of
thrift and what it looks like.
Mayor Grant said it was asked if there were other thrift applications, Salvation Army didn't
apply but they wanted to be here. Will they still want to be here? Probably yes, along with Savers
and a bunch of others. Our area is unique. The median income in North Oaks, Arden Hills and
Shoreview is the reason the thrift stores want to be here. They want to be here for the donations
they would receive. He read from an email from the business owner, replying to the process to
change the use, he said "I guess I will walk away and table this one and not waste resources in
Arden Hills to bring my business in." That was early 2024. Then one day he was there. He had
conversations with the City. There was an avenue for him to follow. He refused to follow it and
then moved in, anyway. Staff is good at documenting and researching things. They always follow
up with notes. He appreciates that. It doesn't change the situation we're in, but it does tell us what
happened, how it happened, who came in and what was said.
Councilmember Weber asked if there is any documentation on the meeting with Savers. He
asked when that was.
Mayor Grant said it was the Salvation Army. He said Staff is good at keeping documentation,
we could ask them to research it. He believes the location was near the McDonalds across the rail
road track. They wanted a combination of the store and residence in a commercial district.
Councilmember Rousseau said she appreciates the professionalism of Staff through out this
process. She also wanted to note that she is a volunteer with Stewart Longfellow Senior Living
and she sees a need for the services that are provided by this business. Not just the retail business
but also the satellite business around that. She recognizes that owning a business comes with a lot
of hard work. She asked what the fee is for a conditional use permit.
City Administrator Jagoe said she would confirm, while discussion continued.
Councilmember Rousseau asked if the conditional use permit was recommended to the owner.
Senior Planner Fransen said in the current zoning code, there are certain zones where a thrift
store could be allowed, with a conditional use permit. The zones that allow it currently are B-4, I -
Flex districts.
City Administrator Jagoe said the application fee for a conditional use permit is $400 and there
is an escrow of $1,500.
Councilmember Rousseau would be willing to consider waiving the fee, if the business owner
will go through the process and allow the business to remain open while it goes through the
process.
City Administrator Jagoe said Council can give that direction. The current location of the
business would trigger the need for an ordinance amendment and that application would have
another application fee and escrow. If Council elects to change the ordinance to require a
conditional use permit, this property also has a Planned Unit Development (PUD). A PUD is the
overlay for that site, which allows for just a retail use. The PUD would also have to be amended
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 9
to allow for a thrift store use. There are a couple different applications that would be required in
addition to the CUP.
Councilmember Rousseau said that would just address this one issue. There is a larger
conversation about the overall zoning to be had.
Councilmember Weber thinks it is worth pointing out that in 2015, when the Planning
Commission heard this, they recommended B-2 and B-3. They recognized that B-2 and B-3 are
the only viable retail zones. The Planning Consultant just did a review of those commercial zones
and they said that B-4 doesn't act as a retail center for Arden Hills. The only place where thrift is
designated is tucked back behind Lexington, but not on Lexington. The only place you can build
this retail use is in a non -viable retail zone, by conditional use. He supports moving forward. He
understands Councilmember Monson's comments regarding stand-alone buildings. Drop offs
are also something that will have to be considered. He is hesitant to make that a conditional use
permit. The thinks that's counter to what we're doing with the zoning code changes. He thinks a
big part of that process will be eliminating conditional use permits, as much as possible.
Councilmember Holden agreed that we need define what a thrift store is. She didn't realize the
decision has been made to get rid of conditional use permits. She doesn't think anyone is against
this business. There has been such a lack of respect that the business owner has shown toward the
City's rules and regulations. It amazes her that we have a developer spending $35 million to build
an apartment and they are following every regulation and presenting multiple concept plan
reviews with Council and are getting yelled at from the bench. And here we have someone who
totally ignores City Staff, rules and zoning and then comes to us expecting us to bend over
backwards for him. We need to analyze how a thrift store is defined and make sure we have what
we want where we want it, instead of leaving it open ended.
Mayor Grant said even if we change the zoning, the owner of Odds and Ends has been clear that
he's not going to go through any of the processes. He refused to apply for anything. If we change
the zoning, he'd still have to apply for multiple applications and he's not willing to pay for them,
anyway. He disagrees with waiving application fees. Other applicants come in and the follow the
zoning code and make the proper applications and pay the applicable fees. This shouldn't be
treated any differently because he moved in when he wasn't supposed to.
Councilmember Weber commented on Councilmember Holden's remarks regarding the $35
million apartment project developers being yelled at from the bench vs. bending over backwards
for this shop. In the last meeting Council talked about not attributing comments to other
Councilmembers. He thinks that applies here. She is misinterpreting a Councilmember's
statements. He is not arguing for Odds and Ends.
Mayor Grant said Councilmember Holden did not make the comment relative to him.
Councilmember Weber said she attributed those comments to another Councilmember. He is
talking about Odds and Ends now. He is not arguing in favor of Odds and Ends. He is arguing in
favor of adding a retail use to a viable retail zone. That is what this is about. It isn't about Odds
and Ends. This is about a use in the City that is stuck in an area where it can't survive and it's not
a retail center. He does not agree with waiving fees or any other part of the process that every
business has to go through as part doing business in the City. In order to be a partner with the
City, you have to do the business that is required. This business model works very well for our
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 10
population. However, the only option for this use is in a zone where it can't survive, that's a
problem. There are a lot of things that need to be discussed. This isn't about giving anyone a pass.
Councilmember Monson asked if every business in the City needs a license.
City Administrator Jagoe confirmed.
Councilmember Monson asked what the goal of the license is.
City Administrator Jagoe clarified it is a registration or a license, depending on the type of
business. There is a form that we ask businesses to complete.
Councilmember Monson asked what the intent of registration or licensing a business was.
City Administrator Jagoe said it is so the City can maintain a business registration list. There
are some fees, specific to the use, in some cases.
Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Hanson said as part of that process we also
collect a certificate of insurance to ensure coverage.
Councilmember Monson outlined her opinions for Council consideration. She would like to
have a separate definition for thrift store. She doesn't want it to be lumped with retail. She is not
sold on having it be a CUP. She would be open to the `permitted with standards' concept that the
consultants are suggesting in the ordinance review. Maybe a standard could be they must be part
of a multi -tenant building. Requiring the license should remain in place. She would like to see it
allowed in B-2 and B-3 districts.
Councilmember Rousseau said she likes the CUP criteria in our code in section 1325.046, page
3. When defining retail and thrift she thinks the language will ensure the business that comes in is
equipped to handle that type of business. She found definitions for consignment thrift, drop-off
thrift and non-profit thrift. She thinks the CUP does a good job of limiting where it could go so it
wouldn't harm the businesses around it. Her biggest concern is suddenly there are multiple thrift
stores and there are lots of drop offs and that would impact other businesses. She's open to adding
the language into code, outside of a conditional use.
Mayor Grant appreciates the business model of Odds and Ends. He is not in favor of changing
the zoning. He was here when Salvation Army came through. This is a prime location in one of
our better known strip malls. He can see why someone would want to have that location. He can
also see there are a number of other businesses that could move into Arden Hills. He thinks we
have been a good steward for that area and have brought in The Tavern, Walgreens, Lifelong
Wealth Advisors. He is not in favor of changing the zoning. He is okay with the CUP in the B-4
and I -Flex districts. He doesn't agree that retail wouldn't be successful in the B-3 zone. There are
retail businesses in that area. There were a lot of other places that Odds and Ends could have
chosen and they didn't. They didn't apply for anything, didn't change anything, didn't work with
Staff after the procedure was explained and then just moved in.
Councilmember Weber asked if Council would support B-2 or B-3.
Councilmember Monson said B-2 and B-3.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 11
Councilmember Rousseau said B-2, B-3 and I -Flex. B-4 is where we put cannabis. If we aren't
willing to put thrift there because retail can't survive, that's a whole other issue.
Councilmember Weber was looking at the uses chart. That's the only other use in B-4 that could
be considered retail.
Mayor Grant thinks there is a lighting store back in there.
Councilmember Weber takes issue because the consultant the City has hired to review our
zoning has said B-4 is not a viable retail area. People can disagree but the expert zoning
professional is saying it's not a retail center. We can make retail allowable there. It's hard to
justify forcing this use to be in a zone where retail can't survive. There's no foot traffic. He
supports B-2 and B-3. He's willing to support it as conditional. He is curious what the Planning
Commission will have to say. He thinks we should send it to the Planning Commission.
Councilmember Holden we hired someone to look at the zoning. It's one company. There are
500 other companies that do the same thing. They could have a different opinion. She thinks it
needs to be a CUP and we need a definition.
Councilmember Monson said she is open to advancing it to Planning Commission if Staff has
enough information.
Mayor Grant said Council should vote on it at a Council Meeting.
Councilmember Monson asked if he was requesting a vote to send it to Planning Commission.
Mayor Grant said if you're going to send something specific to one of the committees, we
should vote.
Councilmember Monson doesn't think we've done that before.
Mayor Grant said we have. He thinks the Council should vote if we want to send it to Planning
Commission. He said we are the applicant. Council directs that. He asked for confirmation.
City Administrator Jagoe said confirmed Council has given that direction.
Mayor Grant asked if that happens formally at a Council meeting.
City Administrator Jagoe can't say that is always the case. Council has given direction at a
Work Session. She can't say there has always been a vote.
Mayor Grant said -if we're changing City Code, that's how it should go.
Councilmember Holden is confused on what would be sent to Planning Commission. Do we
have definitions? Are we sending conditional use? If it's a CUP, Odds and Ends won't apply for a
CUP because it will cost him money. She knows it's not about Odds and Ends, but they are there.
They are supposed to stop doing business on April 30a'. They are still bringing things into the
store every day. She doesn't understand what would be presented to the Planning Commission.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 12
Mayor Grant said that is where the specificity of a motion and council is a good thing.
Councilmember Weber said the conditional use guidelines are clearly written out. There are a
couple of options. One is just calling it retail. Second is the conditional use path that we have in
B-4. It wouldn't change. It would just be applying it to the two other districts. He supports
sending it the Planning Commission like that. He supports making a decision here. He doesn't
understand why this direction can't be given at a Work Session. Things come out of a Work
Session and they move down the line. That's what this meeting is for.
Mayor Grant said this meeting is for Staff, applicants, specialists and consultants to present to us
to educate us on the topics. It's not designed to take the place of the Council meeting. If we were
to do a CUP, Council should decide what the conditions are, rather than giving it to the Planning
Commission.
Councilmember Monson said Council has regularly given Staff direction. Particularly if there is
consensus. We should ask Staff if we have given enough guidelines to move this to Planning
Commission or if they want an additional work session. It will have to go to Planning
Commission because it's an ordinance change.
City Administrator Jagoe said Council can give direction to prepare either for Work Session or
Planning Commission. Staff can break out the different types of thrift stores, large or small scale,
stand alone. Staff can work with the information gathered today and work with existing criteria to
create some additional standards to help create those categories. Council just needs to direct
where the information will be presented.
Councilmember Rousseau thinks we should send it to Planning Commission. She also thinks the
Odds and Ends deadline should be extended for an additional 30-days.
Mayor Grant doesn't think the owner is moving, anyway. He would like Council to review the
staff recommendations. He would want to know what the CUP guidelines are before they go to
Planning Commission, rather than letting the Planning Commission create it and send it back.
Councilmember Weber said there is no time limit if this goes to Planning Commission. This can
be a back and forth with the Planning Commission. We aren't up against any deadline. As for
deferring action for Odds and Ends, he has requested 30-days beyond the final decision for a hard
closure.
Councilmember Monson said we haven't made a decision on the land use.
Councilmember Weber said at that point, we would have made a decision. At that point,
enforcement would be 30 days out. Send it to the Planning Commission.
Councilmember Holden said she is the elected official. She was elected, not the Planning
Commission. She would like it to come before Council to make the decisions we want. She
doesn't know what the definitions are going to be. Maybe Council has a different opinion than
what the Planning Commission does.
Council recessed the work session at 6:57 pm.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 13
Council reconvened the work session at 8:27 pm.
B. Strategic Planning Discussion
City Administrator Jagoe said this is a follow-up item from the last meeting. Council directed
Staff to try to schedule a strategic planning session. Strategic planning discussions were had in
2023 and 2024. She reviewed those notes and at that time Staff reached out to Ethical Leaders in
Action to get a proposal for a Council Retreat/Strategic Planning/Goal Setting Session. The scope
of services was geared toward working relationships for elected officials and interactions with
City Staff. She heard Council saying they wanted action plans, budget discussion drivers and a 5-
year plan for some of the organizational items that may be Work Session topics. She reached out
to an agency she has worked with in the past and got a quote from them. Their services gear
toward a vision for a 5-year plan where you are setting goals and objectives and some
implementation strategies for year one. They are proposing a 2-day session. She has provided
quotes and would like direction from Council that what Staff is scheduling is meeting the
objectives you are looking for. She would also like to know if a 2-day session is okay or just 1-
day.
Councilmember Rousseau is interested in building a road map and trying to prioritize. She
recognizes chickens may be more urgent with the economy. Organized trash collection is on the
list. Do we want to put Staff time toward that? She would like to come up with a plan for the next
couple of years.
Councilmember Holden asked how many years we are looking at. The next couple years are
going to be different for us. There isn't going to be a lot of money, there's not going to be grants.
Is this a ten-year plan or a two to three-year plan? The state is cutting back. She needs to know
how many years we're looking at.
Mayor Grant said no on a two-day retreat. He can skip team building. He wants to focus on what
we want to achieve over the next two to three years. We are going to be in some interesting
financial finds. We will need to figure out what our priorities are.
Councilmember Monson is in support of the Hue Life option. We've been needing strategic
direction for some time, the need is greater with the potential funding changes. She thinks the
timeline we are planning for can be decided there. For sure a two-year plan will need to be
discussed, potentially four -years. She asked how long a "day" is for the two-day session.
City Administrator Jagoe said the scope of services in the two-day retreat is 12-14 hours of
deliverable facilitation time. Typically, it would be a Friday and Saturday and six to seven hours
each day. It can be structured to be eight hours on Friday and then five on Saturday. But they are
saying two days.
Councilmember Monson is not excited about a two-day session but understands that is what is
required. She's flexible. She thinks if we are going to spend the time and money, we should do it
right.
Councilmember Holden can't do two days. If the list could be split, putting the big things
together then put smaller things under that. She noticed there aren't any financials. Discussion
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 14
regarding how PTRC are going to pay for the parks is a priority, above some of the other items on
the list. We need to decide what is most important.
Councilmember Rosseau asked if it could be two Fridays vs. a Friday and Saturday.
Councilmember Holden can't do 14 hours. Back to back days doesn't work. In the past, it was
nice to take a step back and think about what was discussed.
Councilmember Weber asked if it had to be consecutive days.
City Administrator Jagoe didn't ask that question. Her experience was the Friday/Saturday. She
will ask if there is an option to do a Friday and then a second Friday a month later.
Councilmember Weber said he could support that, with Hue Life. He is not interested in the
other proposal.
Councilmember Holden asked when it was decided it would be a Friday.
City Administrator Jagoe said she heard Council talk about a Friday.
Councilmember Monson said they did a similar session with the Fire Board. There were three
months between sessions. We can't spread it that far because we will want this complete in time
for budgeting. It was nice to have that space between sessions.
Mayor Grant said we should try to keep the hours down, maybe not two full days.
City Administrator Jagoe will follow up with the consultant to see about scheduling two
sessions with some time between. She sought clarification if Council wanted to agree on
availability and see if it works for the consultant, or should we schedule it when they can fit us in.
Councilmember Holden said everyone needs to be at the first one.
Councilmember Weber said we will probably have to have the consultant say when they are
available and then move on it when we find a date that works for everyone.
City Administrator Jagoe said she will follow up on dates. She wanted to confirm that Council
plus the Directors and City Clerk should attend. She asked if there was anyone else that should be
included in the invitation.
Discussion ensued regarding start time, possible dates and what items will be focused on.
City Administrator Jagoe will discuss availability with the consultant and send out dates to
Council.
C. Council Norms of Behavior
City Administrator Jagoe said on March 10th, this item was brought to the Work Session along
with the Committee/Commission Code of Conduct Policy. The Council Norms of Behavior,
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 15
Resolution 2016-22 is being brought back for Council review. She asked Council if there are any
updates or changes, they want to make.
Councilmember Monson thinks the Norms of Behavior is a good place to start but she feels that
reading it, it was written in response to the dynamics that were happening at that time. She
provided something previously that more broadly discussed honesty and integrity. She thought we
could check with LMC to see if they have a template. She thinks the items are very specific.
Councilmember Weber said he went through all the chapters of the Elected Officials Guides on
the LMC site. He thinks the information is very comprehensive guidance for elected officials and
ethics guidance. He provided the information to City Administrator Jagoe. He requested she
share that information with the rest of the Council.
City Administrator Jagoe said she will pass that along to the entire council.
Councilmember Rousseau asked if City Administrator Jagoe would share that along with
Councilmember Holden's notes, as well.
Councilmember Holden said in item #3, there is language regarding public testimony. She
believes the word `immoral' should be removed. We shouldn't use that word. We talk about being
respectful of one another but we also have to include resident interactions.
D. Twin Cities Gateway Funding Discussion
Mayor Grant said there is just under $20,000 plus some roll-over from the previous year. He is
grateful the Visitor's Bureau allowed that. These funds need to be used to advertise and promote
events that will bring people into Arden Hills to use hotels and patronize our businesses. He
believes the ice swim event would qualify. We've used it for Rib Fest and Bethel Homecoming.
He reminded that we have the 75t' Anniversary of Arden Hills coming in 2026. He asked Council
if they had any preference for prioritizing the list.
Councilmember Rousseau said she is interested in using half of the amount for Rib Fest and the
other half for the ice swim. She would like John Connelly to talk with Al Stauffacher to help
shepherd the process of the Regional Grant for the ice swim event. She understands they will do
that for a newer event. Mr. Stauffacher seemed interested in the ice swim. She said it seems like
we typically discuss this funding source in April. She wondered if the 75a' Anniversary should be
on the list for next year, with all of the 2026 funds going towards that event.
Mayor Grant said that is the Council's decision to make. He said the grant awards are based on a
formula. He said the numbers are holding and we can probably expect about the same amount
next year.
Councilmember Holden would like to use a little of the 2025 money to advertise a save the date
for the 75th Anniversary. She thinks we should send out one big flyer. A mailing is $2,000. She
thinks we should send out a mailing announcing that 2026 is the 75t' Anniversary. Something that
advertises us as a City to all the residents and businesses. She isn't willing to give it to Bethel.
They never even thanked us.
Mayor Grant isn't aware if Staff has received any communication.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 16
Councilmember Weber can support the use for save the date for the 75th Anniversary. He
thought vinyl signs attached to sidewalks. He is a little concerned with the proposal from the ice
swim that Council heard during the Public Inquiries. He doesn't know how they calculated that
they brought in $150,000. They are projecting $1 million next year. That seems ambitious. He
doesn't know if that is accurate. He does support the ice swim and he would love to see it grow.
He isn't against giving them some of the money.
Councilmember Monson said she is good with Rib Fest, the ice swim and the 75th. She said we
have talked about forming a committee for the 75th Anniversary. She said that could be part of the
advertisement.
Mayor Grant will have a conversation with Mr. Stauffacher about promoting the ice swim. He
will also ask if the 75th, since it is next year, would qualify to use funds granted this year.
Councilmember Weber asked if the 75th doesn't qualify for this year, the rest will go to Rib Fest.
Mayor Grant confirmed it could be split between the two other events.
Councilmember Rousseau sought clarification. She said the goal is heads in beds. If we market
in Arden Hills, are we hoping they will invite out of town friends?
Mayor Grant said with community festivals, it's a little more flexible. The regional grant
opportunity is where they get a little more focused on bringing people in. If Ice Swimming
becomes an Olympic event in 2030 it could become more popular. This may be like Rib Fest
where it's an event that will continue to grow.
Councilmember Holden doesn't like that Rib Fest didn't put us up as a sponsor last year. We've
been donating to them for years. She had to go to them to ask why they didn't include Arden Hills
as a sponsor. They made one announcement over the loud speaker. They are fully funded for Rib
Fest. If we don't give them as much as we have in the past, she's fine with that, because they
haven't advertised us as a sponsor.
Mayor Grant said that goes back to a previous City Administrator. For some reason that person
didn't want Arden Hills name on Rib Fest. The organizers haven't gotten the new message
because he has approached them, as well.
Councilmember Weber said the organizer of the Norwegian Foot March is really ambitious
about developing that in Arden Hills. That may be worth thinking about for next year.
Mayor Grant has talked with him, as well. That event is a little more targeted to the military,
with participants receiving a ribbon for the ROTC program.
Councilmember Weber said there is a 5K and a 20K for civilians. It could be a draw.
Councilmember Holden said the nice thing about the Norwegian March is when part of the Red
Bulls went to Norway for three months last year to train. They brought a lot of that experience
back.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 17
Mayor Grant asked Council, in the event we can't use money this year for the 75th, would we be
interested in a split between Rib Fest, ice swim and Norwegian Foot March.
Councilmember Weber asked if the Norwegian Foot March has solicited for funds this year?
Mayor Grant said they haven't. It's an annual event.
Councilmember Weber asked if we are just going to go to them and ask if they want it.
Mayor Grant said they would have to tell us how they are using the money in order to generate
heads in beds. Groups travel from all over the United States to come here for the Norwegian Foot
March.
City Administrator Jagoe said this year's event is scheduled for April 19a'
Council agreed it is too late to reserve funds for the Norwegian Foot March in 2025. They could
be considered for 2026.
Councilmember Holden said Flaherty's has a Regional Corn Hole Championship. That is a big
draw and we could possibly use the funds for that. She asked if the high schools requested
anything this year. She said the Rotary has their tasting in the fall, as well.
Mayor Grant said that event is in Shoreview.
Councilmember Holden said it's the Arden Hills/Shoreview Rotary. We have hotels in Arden
Hills where visitors may stay for that event.
Mayor Grant believes the event needs to be held in your community. He will check the
guidelines.
City Administrator Jagoe read from the guidelines that is states "...for the purpose of marketing
and promoting the City as a tourist or convention center."
Councilmember Rousseau said the ice swim is in January and the Norwegian Foot March is in
April. She wondered if we can give them the money this year.
City Administrator Jagoe said there was a little bit carried over this year. She isn't sure if there
is a maximum amount that can be carried over.
Mayor Grant thinks there has to be some flexibility to use the funds for a January event. He will
talk to Mr. Stauffacher.
Councilmember Weber thought you could argue that most of the advertising expenditures would
be spent toward the end of this year even though the event is happening in early 2026.
Councilmember Holden wondered if the Norwegian March is facilitated by the National Guard
and the Army. She said they can't take our money, unless it's organized by a different
organization.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 18
City Administrator Jagoe will verify.
Councilmember Weber would have to check his notes but he believes the organizer stated he
runs a 501 C, non-profit.
Mayor Grant will have some discussions with Mr. Stauffacher. Maybe the Gateway Visitor's
Bureau will sponsor part of the ice swim, outside of the Arden Hills dollars. He will talk to him
about the possible list and bring the information he learns back to Council.
E. Agenda Planning
Councilmember Monson said that Gateway Funding potential and strategic planning were
brought up tonight. She didn't know if the feeding wildlife ordinance could be done next month.
She asked if the Old Highway 10 discussion that is scheduled on May 12 could be bumped up to
the April 28t1i meeting.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he is waiting for the determination from
the MnDOT grant which will be awarded on April Vh.
Councilmember Monson thought if there were any extra discussion time, she was thinking
volunteer recognition. There have been a couple of residents who volunteered for a long time who
have passed away. She wondered if there should be anything special to recognize them.
Councilmember Holden said that is a great discussion but she would rather recognize them
before they're dead.
Councilmember Monson understands. It's a narrow approach and that's why she'd like to start
the volunteer recognition discussions.
City Administrator Jagoe said volunteer recognition is one of the items that the Council had
passed to the Personnel Committee for discussion. Assistant to the City Administrator/City
Clerk Hanson has been doing research and Staff is compiling that information and should have
something to share with Personnel soon. She said we can bring it back to the next work session or
keep it on the Personnel track.
Council agreed it can stay with Personnel.
City Administrator Jagoe sought clarification if direction is to bring the thrift store use
discussion to Planning Commission on May 7a' so it can be removed from the list to be brought
back to a Work Session.
Councilmember Holden isn't sure how we ended that.
Mayor Grant said the discussion ended in a bit of craziness. There was a split. He would prefer it
to come back to Council so when we send something to Planning Commission, they won't send
back something Council is opposed to or that we want to make changes to.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 19
Councilmember Rousseau would prefer it go to the Planning Commission for an initial run-
through. There are so many different items that need to be discussed. There isn't enough time in
these work sessions to get through the entire list.
Councilmember Weber strongly agrees it should go to the Planning Commission.
Councilmember Monson agrees it should go to the Planning Commission. She thinks the
Planning Commission should be encouraged to watch the work session so they understand the
concerns.
Councilmember Weber asked if it would be on the next Planning Commission agenda.
City Administrator Jagoe confirmed it could go to the May 7 h meeting.
Councilmember Holden said there has been discussion of there being multiple definitions. She is
asking if Planning Commission is being tasked with defining thrift instead of the Council.
City Administrator Jagoe said Staff would share draft language with the Planning Commission
for feedback and review. They can make a recommendation to bring forward to the Council.
Council agreed to that approach and thrift store use was removed from Agenda Planning, pending
Planning Commission recommendations.
Councilmember Weber wants to discuss ducks and chickens.
Mayor Grant said that one is low on the priority list.
Councilmember Weber doesn't think it will take that much time.
Councilmember Rousseau is interested in prioritizing chickens. She believes the ducks
discussion could wait. The current state of the economy is making keeping chickens a hot topic
again. She is also interested in discussing the door-to-door groups. She would also like to visit the
topic of only meeting once in January, February and March. She said we should have the two
meetings. She thought more work could be done during that period. By June we need to be having
budget conversations.
Councilmember Monson is okay with removing ducks from the chicken conversation. She's not
sure if there is a big difference. She saw an article saying people are flocking to get chickens due
to the price of eggs. She thinks this is a good time for us to allow residents to do that. She doesn't
know if there are different regulations surrounding ducks. She is fine with separating the two, if
it's necessary.
Mayor Grant said ducks are entirely different. They are migration animals.
Councilmember Holden said all the chicks have been sold out so it's not an issue for this year.
There are residents in Arden Hills who don't have a license but are keeping chickens, anyway.
Councilmember Monson said she reviewed the current chicken ordinance and she thinks there
are just a couple of clean-up items needed.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 20
City Administrator Jagoe said Staff can provide the ordinance and Council can direct what they
are looking to have changed.
Councilmember Weber is interested in having ducks included in the conversation. Kept ducks
don't migrate. He said he would rather just have one discussion. If there isn't any significant legal
difference between the two. If the rules and regulations aren't that different, it makes sense to
discuss them together.
Mayor Grant doesn't think ducks need a run or a coop. They aren't really a flock animal. There
are differences between ducks and chickens.
Councilmember Holden said there was one resident whose duck was eaten by a fox. She wanted
to make sure she was legal, when she did it. She isn't sure why we're having this conversation.
Councilmember Weber doesn't know the history behind that situation. That isn't the reason of
the topic, for him. He would like to have Staff s researched opinion on the rules and regulations
on ducks vs. chickens.
Mayor Grant said he thinks we should include ducks. First reason being that the chicks have sold
out. He said there is already an ordinance. If someone wants to build the coop and the run, it's
well documented in the City Code. There are a couple of items to be cleaned up but it's nothing
major. There is nothing in place when you look at the duck side of things.
Councilmember Weber said he was on the Planning Commission when they reviewed the
chicken ordinance. There are changes he would like to see to that ordinance. The Planning
Commission gave recommendations that were ignored. There was a range of chickens, a range of
run sizes and a range of other factors. The Council chose the minimum for absolutely everything
and chose the maximum for the required run. It seemed that the regulations were set up in such a
way that very few residents would qualify to have them.
Councilmember Holden said the Planning Commission is an advisory commission. Planning
Commissioners don't get phone calls from everyone whose neighbor's chickens are running down
the road, or the calls regarding roosters screaming all day. Maybe the Planning Commission
doesn't have all the information that the City Council has. They followed the guidelines. It wasn't
that the recommendations were ignored. The Council had different information.
Mayor Grant said he thinks we should look at ducks. If people are okay with that, let's just look
at ducks.
Councilmember Monson wants the discussion to be ducks and chickens. If we're doing one or
the other she would want to do chickens first.
Mayor Grant surveyed Council.
Councilmember Monson said if she has to pick one, its chickens. She would prefer to discuss
both.
Councilmember Rousseau agreed. Her choice is chickens if we can only do one.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 21
Councilmember Weber said chickens. He doesn't see why they can't be in the same ordinance.
Councilmember Holden said chickens because we haven't discussed ducks. When Staff comes
back, the information regarding ducks may be completely different than those for chickens.
Mayor Grant said we can start with chickens. If Staff has time to include ducks in that
conversation, fine. If not, we can discuss ducks later.
F. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion
Councilmember Monson asked if Council wanted to discuss TCAAP.
Councilmember Holden is hearing that Alatus isn't happy. She asked how that is being
addressed.
Councilmember Monson asked what they are unhappy about.
Councilmember Holden said she will drop it.
Mayor Grant said he expressed his informational needs from the bench. He's not trying to say
things won't come together but it's a critical time. He is worried that they may push the goal post
down the field due to lack of substantial progress. He doesn't know if the City can ascertain what
substantial progress is for the County and the Developers. He doesn't think Staff is going to those
meetings and negotiations.
Councilmember Monson said we are receiving updates. When they discuss the purchase
agreement, we only get bits and pieces. We don't know that full picture.
Mayor Grant said that was his point. We don't know what the County considers substantial
progress.
Councilmember Holden said during the JDA Meeting, Victoria Reinhart said "We're all in this
together. You're going to need to help out." The first time they came to us and said we owed
another $1 million and that put us further in the hole. She can see that same thing happening.
We're already in the hole with just our expenses.
Mayor Grant said the City is 1 % of the County, in terms of financial strength. For the City, $10
million is a big number for the County, it isn't.
Councilmember Monson said during JDA Meetings she has explicitly said that we won't
shoulder the burden because we're 1%. That has been expressed to the JDA. The term `substantial
progress' is left open-ended intentionally. She thinks we haven't gotten into the depths of
substantial progress because there has been such little progress in the last few months, because
they keep changing the purchase agreement. We've been waiting.
Mayor Grant is concerned about going back to May of 2022 where the County said no to the
City's Term Sheet. The County is looking back at that. That was before Outlot A was sliced off.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 22
Councilmember Monson asked for clarification that the County is looking at the City's Term
Sheet from May of 2022.
Mayor Grant said he believes that is what was said in the summary from the City Administrator.
City Administrator Jagoe stated she said the December 2023 Term Sheet had the public and
private financing between the City, County and Developer. The City needs to still discuss that
because in the 2022 Term Sheet the TIF was $17 million. We had asked the Developer to update
that and redline it. They said this is still an open discussion item to be brought back after the
purchase and sale details are reached.
Mayor Grant said he is concerned that they are looking back to the previous Term Sheet, in
terms of financing. He doesn't want negotiations to happen at the II�h hour. He doesn't think
using that document is still valid. He agrees that numbers are changing. We can have the
attorneys run numbers but it's expensive for the City to run analyses when things are in a state of
change.
City Administrator Jagoe said conversations are beginning regarding City WAC and SAC fees
for the TCAAP Development. We may have enough topic items to use the May 27t' Work
Session to focus on TCAAP updates and discussions that still need to be had. We could return to
the cooperative agreement for financing. There are some things we know need to be discussed
between the City and the County, regardless of how things land with Alatus. If Council is okay
with that, she reminded that the discussion would be televised.
Councilmember Holden would like to add affordable housing to the Work Session topic list. She
doesn't think people understand the concept of it, how it is effected by TIF or what it costs to
build affordable housing. Trident came with their $1.3 million. When a banker comes in and
finances it, he's not financing it based on a lesser rate. When she calculated it out 30-years, for
what the gentleman asked for TIF. She ran some numbers and he was pretty much asking what's
on. She thinks we need a Work Session to discuss that kind of stuff.
Councilmember Weber said the whole point of asking for affordable housing was in return for
them exceeding the density. That was a give and take situation. That is why $1.3 million is
absurd. They are asking for so much over the zoning density. We ask for affordable housing, in
return. That isn't unreasonable. He is certain Councilmembers can recognize that it will cost
something. The full $1.3 million over 30-years, upfront is an absurd ask.
Mayor Grant said that is why we need to talk about it at a Work Session. He agrees we need to
understand the Tax Increment Financing and the Tax Revenue Abatement, if that is used.
City Administrator Jagoe offered that could be the EDA topic for the July meeting.
Councilmember Monson was thinking the same thing.
City Administrator Jagoe will place the topic on the agenda for that meeting.
4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — APRIL 14, 2025 23
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said that he had MN Dot include the chain
link fence along the entire right-of-way, at their cost. The $15,000 that was earmarked for that
barrier is up for discussion. Council could also choose to direct those funds to general park
improvements.
Mayor Grant asked what the agreement regarding that money was.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it must go toward a parks improvement.
Mayor Grant asked if we have automatic lights at Freeway Park.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the only one we have is at Cummings.
Mayor Grant said that would be a park improvement.
Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen agreed. He asked if Council would like him
to bring this back to a later work session. He thinks the PTRC has made recommendations in the
past.
Councilmember Rousseau said Recreation Supervisor Johnson can ask the PTRC at
tomorrow's meeting.
Mayor Grant said that would be fine. He asked for him to include Staff options, as well.
ADJOURN
Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Work Session at 9:32 p.m.
Je er Estling David Grant
eputy Clerk Mayor