HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 08-26-1976
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MINUTES OF SPECIAL COUNCiL MEETING
Village of Arden HI lis
Thursday,. August 26, 197' - 7:30 p.m.
Shoreview Vi I lage Hall
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CAll TO ORDER
Pursuant to due call and notice ~e.P.t...~spe I ~);..me.W.' nS..9.f.d;#..d
the Village Council. Of~ HI s$i~ a ~rftffe~l
was called to order by r V" ' 1,'KII t the ~norevlew
Village Hal I, 4665 North Victoria Street, Shoreview, Minnesota,
on Thursday, August 26, 1976 at 7:40 p.m.
RO II CALL
Present from Arden Hi I Is: Mayor Crepeau, Councilmen Crichton,
Woodburn and Wingert.
Present from North Oaks: Councilmen Bjorklund, Bondus and lauder.
Present from Shorevlew: Councl Imembers Weyandt, Wedell, Newbold
and McGraw.
DISCUSSION
Councl Imember Weyandt gave a statement of purpose saying that we
would be hearing from community representatives and staff so that
we wil I have a common base of Information. He also pointed out
that this is a public meeting ~nd not a public hearing. The
purpose of the meeting Is also to discuss the economic situation.
The quality or competency of the Fire Department Is not In question.
Counci Imember Wedell updated the other Councllmembers as to what
has transpired In the past and currently with the Lake Johanna
Fire Department. Mr. Wedel I also pointed out that we are pleased
with the service of the Fire Department. Our difference is not
that of service but rather one of a philosophical dl fference as
to the future development of the lake Johanna Fire Department ---
baSically the ownership of Capital Equipment.
It was pointed out that the Lake Johanna Fire Department has been
a volunteer fire department for approximately 35 year-s. .Unlike
other volunteew.QE1P.ll!r:ml1'1t?, It Is owned by ., ."t~
fire departmen~ the community it serves. They are unpaid
----they do not receive any reimbursement for going to a fire.
Councllmember Wedell pointed out that there Is a retirement
program after 20 years of servl ceo The retl rement was raised
recently to $120 per month.
Three communities contribute to the Fire Department according to
their assessed valuation. This amounts to approximately one-half
for Shoreview, one-thtrd for Arden Hi lis and one-sixth for North
Oaks. Contract for service is for one year.
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In 1967 and 1968 the total Fire Department Budget was $26,000. In
1969 It was $29,000. These amounts were probably not high enough.
In 1975 the budget was up to $60,000, currently the budget Is
$79,618. The proposed budget for 1977 is $94,123.
Councllmember Wedell reviewed the proposed budget. He said he
agreed with the Increase in General 0verhead; Bui tding Expansion was
reduced by $15,OGO,because the final payment had been made for the
expansion of Station 2; and EquJpment Expansion was down $3,000.
The big issue Is Equipment Depreciation. There was an 16' Increase
In the budget. We are paying for e~ulpment in advance when we have
a one-year contract and equipment might not be purchased for several
years. We do not gJs~~ree with th~ need, but there is an expansion
plan for Station I~a~ is also involved.
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Councl !member Wedell mentioned that 3 or 4 years ago the FI re
Department wanted a "squirt", a ~mal I scale snorkei. Because the
three communities were Involved. an outside consultant was called in
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Ml nutes of Specl a I Counc! I ~leeti.nq
Page two
to give a r.gport. The reslltts of the report showed that a ladder
truck would be a more appropriate purchase.
Augu:',t 26, 1976
Again it was pointed out that the concern was about expense and
ownership; should this equipment be given to the lak.~ Johanna Fire
Department. It was felt that we should lease it to them so we
could retain an equity since we had to pay for it. We have a
one-year contract, but we would be financing It over several
years. Over the years we rave actually made payments to Lake
Johanna Fire Departmen"t and should own the equipment. The Fire
Department does not fe.!1 WEe should have equity tn the equipment.
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Councl Imember Wedell presented a list of options as follows:
(I) come up with the 18% ar.d go along with the contr3ct; (2) buy
out the fire department; (3) individually contract with other fire
departments; or (4) start our own fire department either individually
or co I I ect I ve I y .
Councllmember Crichton said that he is very satisfied with the
present service, however, they are a monopoly since there are no
other options available. The Impact of $94,000 for this year was
great and It could be an even greater amount next year. They
are estimating $263,000 for purchasing future equipment at a
$28,000 a year charge. Another $10,000 wi II be Included next
year for replacement of the ladder truck. Another $6,000 wi II be
Included next year for a $100,000 vehicle that will ,"e bought this
year. That Is over $44,000 yearly acc~ual for futur$ purchases.
On this basis, by next year the Fire Department wi II own some-
where in the neighborhood of $513,000 worth of equipment.
it was pointed out that two items In General Malntenance amount to
$3,500 which werp~~JJY first payments of an accrual for. future
buildings. The~.-iiF9' for $31,000. This will be another amouni.
for future use. If we pay, we are giving our approval to new
buildings. The department knows its business, but t~ey are not
under any pressure to keep the cost down. I f we hav" to spend th I s
much money, let us keep the tltle to the equipment.
Councllmember Bjorklund said that North Oaks has bee" very happy
with -their relationship wli"h the department. haole no arguments
with performance, but It is getting to be big business because
the communities are growing. North Oaks does not want to put
money Into Capital Equipment and not have anything mora than a
one-year contract. He felt the financial structure should be
changed.
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It was pointed out by Councl Imember Bondus that we do not have the
rl ght to spend taxpayers m<lOey In tn I sway. We shoul d pay for the
service rendered, but not In advance for equipment. Councllmember
McGraw concurred with the feelings of the other Councllmembers
In regard to paying In advance, but not having any equity. He
suggested the possibility of leasing the equipment f{.r $1.00 per
year to the Fi re Departmeni'. There I s the poss i b I II ty that
the Fire Department will go out of busIness.
The ladder truck will be bought by a Joint Powers Agreement and
will ,-emaln an asset of the. Joint Pc.wers Agreement. The Fire
Department has agraed on that one item but not on all future
equipment.
Councllmember Wedell made 11 few comments regarding dlspatchlng.
There are four dls~atchers and they are paid to be 0' duty. The
Ramsey County Sheriff's Office receives call.s for ot,e,- fire
departments and dispatches equipment. He felt that we could
Increase efficiency by using Ramsey County. The cost to change the
equipment would be $12,000 to $15,000.
Shorevlew City Manager, Gal'y Dickson, pointed out that the 911
Program has been studied by elected and appointed officials and
Northweste rn Be I I an d hEl updated Its present status.
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Minutes of Special Council Meeting
Page th ree
August 26, 1976
Councllmember McGarw said it seemed that we were unanimous In our
feelings and that we should decide on alternatives.
Mayor pro tern Weyandt called on the City Finance Director, Jim
Carufel, to review the normal accounting practices. He pointed out
that depreciation, when utilized, Is normally based on existing
equipment and original cost. The idea of depreciation on future
equipment or replacement costs results In a geometric Increase
over time. Mr. Carufel revieWed some examples of these accounting
policies. Counci Imember Woodburn queried how you can depreciate
something that was obtained free.
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Councl Imember Wedel I felt that multiple bids are necessary In
equipment purchases.
In regard to the legal aspect, It was suggested that we refer
questions to the Shorevlew City Attorney. Questions such as: Are
we paying for goods or services not received?
Dave Koch, Chief of the lake Johanna Fire Department, corrected
Councl Imember Wedel l's statement that pension was $120 per month.
It Is actually SIOO per month. He pointed out that the department
is caught In the Increase on equipment. They are trying to prepare.
for these I n creases, an d they have been tota II y honest. I fit
Is a matter of signing a contract for 10 years, that would be
acceptable, however, they could not put a dollar. amount on It.
They do want to keep the business of the three communities.
Chief Koch pointed out that their original bid for a ladder truck
was $126,000, then the cities said they needed 3 bids and.helted
the proceedings and now the cost will probably be $175,000 to
S190,000 and we aren't any closer to making a purchase.
Councllmember McGraw felt that the time had come for the cities to
worry about financing and buying the equipment. This way the
Fire Department will not have to accumulate funds. According to
Chief Koch that plan does not work. With the ladder truck as an
example, he pointed out that the department Is waiting for the
truck and they owe it to the people to have adequate equipment.
They have also been heating a bay these past three winters for the
truck that Is not there.
Councllmember Wedell said the original plan was for a "squirt" then
It was changed to a ladder truck, then there was the question of
operation. We all learned through that process, and we have
probably attained a better program as a result of looking Into
the purchase a little further.
Councllmember Weyandt thought It unique that we contract for a
service, but we are not really In control of the taxpayers money
through a representative.
Councl Imember Bjorklund suggested that we agree with this years
contract and then shop for a better deal.
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Dave Carlson, a fireman, pointed out that the fact that the 3
villages had gotten together was a great start. He said that
S30,000 seems to be the hang-up. Is there a way of setting up
an escrow account? And, would it be better If they published
thei r rate.
Reverend Beltz, of Trinity Lutheran Church, said the problem seems
to be separating depreciation from budget. He mentioned that for
Instance, If your air-conditioning goes out you'call a person and
do not get:5 bids. Included In the repalrmans bill Is a charge
for depreciation. Councilmember Wedell pointed out that with
air-conditioning you have a choice of who to call In the first
place, but that Is not true with the Fire Department. Councllmember
Bjorklund felt that It should be conducted In a more business-like
manner and that we need more control.
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Minutes of Special Council Meeting
Page four
Mike McKinney of the Fire Department, polnted out that the charge
from another fire department would als.p include a depreciation
schedule. Councllmember Weyandt pointed out that anot~ler fire
department would be accountable to a Counci I.
August 2f, 1976
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Chief Koch said that the mcney Is put In savings certificates which
are Federally insured.
Councllmember Wedell suggested that the Councils tako this back to
their individual Councils to consider the options. He was not
comfortable with a member missing.
Councllmember Wedell pointed out that although the Joint Powers
Agreement has been drawn up, It has not been signed by the three
villages.
Dr. Woodburn suggested the creation of an authority consisting of
the Cities and the Fire Department with bonding power. It was
then suggested that the attorneys advise us of the legality of
this arrangement. Or. Wooaburn suggested that Uave Koch aSK tne
membership how they feel about this suggestlon~
Karen Torgerson, 498 West Highway 96, stated that safety comes
first. She wants fire protection for her family.
Councl Imember Weyandt mentioned that a few years ago
said do not Increase spending more than 6% per year.
Limitation law of 6% Is hard to keep.
the legislature
The Levy
u..uJJ wi.d
Coune I I ~ . , , r d I rE,cte d that the Arden H II Is Attorne/--..c-
the Shorevlew Attorney and possibly Dr. Woodburn _ . ,.
to Investigate the authority suggestion made by Dr. W06d)urn.
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Council d~<;V~'9Jthe il," ~ . ~ Cler!<,"'to ~~adJacent
~~llaga~ rA..;~~d~.~~;,/__~-~ ..,...~ "'~e
The City Manager of Shorevlew will report on establlshi~g a
Trl-Clty Fire Department at the next meeting.
Due to the urgency of the matter, It was felt that another meetIng
date be set for a joint meatlng. The next meeting~; II be
Wednesday, September 8, 1976 at 7:30 p.m. In Shorevl,~w.
Adjournment
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'~e meetln~Journad at 9:45
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p.m.
azA/A~~~_L
Charlotte McNiesh
Clerk Administrator
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Notice of Meeting
The next Special Council Meeting will be held on Wednesday,
September 6, 1976 at 1:30 p.m. at the Shoreview Village Hall.
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