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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-12-25 WS'It �-A1�EN HILLS Approved: June 9, 2025 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAY 12, 2025 5:30 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor David Grant called to order the City Council Work Session at 5:30 p.m. Present: Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Kurt Weber, Emily Rousseau Brenda Holden and Tena Monson Absent: None Also present: City Administrator Jessica Jagoe; Public Works Director/City Engineer David Swearingen; Finance Director Joua Yang and Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL None. 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None. 3. AGENDA ITEMS A. Karth Lake Improvement District Board Update Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the 2026 PMP is the Karth Lake Neighborhood. We are doing any improvements we can, in that area including streets, water, storm sewer and water quality efforts for Karth Lake. The Karth Lake Improvement District made a recommendation that Council consider authorizing some pumping operations/modifications to the current system. Councilmember Monson asked if Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen will be walking through the design alternatives, as outlined in the memo. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 2 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said that will be part of Bolton and Menk's work through that feasibility study with the PMP. We got feedback and the recommendation from Karth Lake to investigate top level design alternatives for pumping operations. Council could consider this at the June work session when the feasibility report is bought to Council. Councilmember Monson asked if Staff is seeking direction to go get those. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said Staff will be looking for direction at the June work session, if there is interest in pursuing those designs. Tonight's discussion is informational. Renee Marino of the Karth Lake Improvement District Board said about three years ago the Karth Lake Board initiated an effort to understand how the lake level interacts with the pump. The lake level bounces quite a bit and there is a lot of erosion when that happens. The pump exacerbates that and there have been pump failures. Rice Creek Watershed came on board to help with Matt Kocian's support. He brought in some funding for a hydrologist to develop an additional model for the lake level that worked really well. This helps answer some questions regarding pump operations. The DNR were also involved. They contributed a gauge in the lake and they calibrate it every year. They offer some other expertise in regards to automation of the pumping process. Renee Marino shared photos of a retaining wall that was built 15 years ago. The City designed the wall with Rice Creek and they funded part of it. Scouts finished it. It was expected to have a 10-year life and now it's bowing out and will fail. There was $100,000 set aside to do that, 3 years ago. It was decided to hold off on spending that money until next year. The controlling station has vandalism and the pump is sitting out in the open. The pump has also been flipped over before and caused it to fail. It has to be manually brought out to the lake. Karth Lake Improvement District Board is encouraging City Council to include improvements to manage the Karth Lake Watershed as part of the 2026 PMP Street Utility Improvement Project. It was discovered that the lake operates simply. There is no natural inflow or natural outflow. Working with the DNR, it is clear that if the lake is not pumped, it would put the houses on one side of the lake underwater. It would rise to the street level and flow into the houses on the other side, as well. Councilmember Holden asked if there was one side of the lake that didn't want the pump. She asked what side of the lake wants the pump and what side doesn't. Renee Marino said the members of the Karth Lake Board who are on the higher end have noted erosion issues with foundations. Councilmember Holden asked what side of the lake did not want the pumping. Renee Marino said it's the higher end. She said since 1984, there has been 36 feet pumped out of the lake. There is only a 10 foot difference between the normal lake level and street level. That reinforces that the pumping is essential. She shared a graphic showing the water level before the development went in. The development cause the watershed to expand dramatically. It's up 350% of its original size. Every time an inch of rain falls within the watershed you get a nearly instant two inch rise in the lake. If there are six inches of rain, specifically a multi -day event, it multiplies ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 3 by four times due to the run-off. She shared historical lake levels and how pumping has affected the lake levels since it began. She summarized there is quite a bit of fluctuation. Mayor Grant asked what her request from the Council is. Renee Marino said there is a model in place that takes 60-years of data to develop different strategies. The proposed strategy is to bring the level from 935.5 down to 935. This would require some more manpower or automation. The key takeaway from the Karth Lake Board is, this is not just an issue of protecting some properties or making the lake beautiful. If this pump had not been installed, the whole structure and expanse of the lake would be bigger and there would be fewer households. They are requesting the watershed needs to share in the cost of whatever improvements are done here. Councilmember Weber asked if Ramsey County's run off from Lexington or Hamline would make it to the Lake. And if so, does Ramsey County share any responsibility for maintenance of that water after it gets to the lake. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the water does reach the lake after running through some infiltration basins. Councilmember Weber thinks there is a conversation to be had with Ramsey County since their water is making its way to the City's lake. Councilmember Rousseau said runoff comes from Shoreview, as well. She doesn't know if we have relationships where we specifically look for funding in a specific watershed area. She asked if there were any cost estimates. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he hasn't had a discussion with Bolton and Menk. He would be hesitant to give numbers without knowing the results of their ongoing study. Matt Kocian from the Rice Creek Watershed District (RCWD) said there are a couple of reasons the watershed district is interested in limiting lake bounce. One concern is flooding properties that could cause damage to structures and foundations. The watershed tries to manage and mitigate flooding. The other concern is water quality. Water levels bounce consistently up and down on a lake. That can destroy shoreline vegetation and create more erosion. That is bad for water quality. For those reasons RCWD is happy to participate in the modeling efforts here. Their recommendation going forward is a strategy that limits lake level bounce. RCWD has not participated in a project that specifically pumps out lakes but they have worked on other automated projects where pumps are connected to sensors in the lake. The pumps automatically turn off and on. He doesn't have a dollar amount but it is not terribly expensive. There isn't a cost share program but if the City moves forward and is looking to partner with another agency he would suggest reaching out to RCWD and let them know the option being pursued. Renee Marino said there is $100,000 set aside for the retaining wall. That could be designed to incorporate an enclosure that allows the automation and prevents vandalism. The DNR has a lot of experience with managing the water level. The equipment is a couple thousand dollars and it can be accessed via cell phone so City Staff could see the levels. There are different pump options. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 4 Mayor Grant asked how this ties into the 2026 PMP. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the 2026 PMP is within the Karth Lake Neighborhood. He said when we purchased the pump a few years ago, there was an agreement with the board that the City would rehab the slope by replacing the retaining wall. That was incorporated into the 2026 PMP. The recommendation from the board was to look at the pumping. The board was involved in proving that there is a better way to do the pumping. This would be the ideal time to do some type of full structure there since we are redoing the retaining wall. Councilmember Monson thought the information provided was very thorough and she learned about some new topics. She doesn't know if the $100,000 would cover an automated system, but it would be nice to have such a system. She asked if Staff would bring this back in June to share if it fits under the $100,000. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. It will come back on June 23ra Councilmember Holden asked if Karth Lake is still a private lake. Renee Marino said about one quarter of the lake is Cummings Park. Councilmember Holden asked where on the lake are the residents who don't want the lake pumped. Renee Marino said the southwest side of the lake sits higher. That opinion is an outdated opinion. That slope has been unstable and that is affecting some of the houses on the high bluff. She believes there is overall support for pumping, at this point. Councilmember Holden asked if they still have a taxation piece. Renee Marino said we can make a recommendation for taxation but the message is that this isn't just for beautification for the residents who own on the lake. It's more important for overall management. Councilmember Weber asked where the water is pumped to. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said there is a catch basin near the water tower that this system ties into. It goes downstream and eventually to Lake Valentine. Renee Marino added that drains into Rice Creek, which then goes to the Mississippi. Councilmember Rousseau is looking forward to what Bolton and Menk comes up with for this. It's important for the watershed district to be a healthy environment. Renee Marino expressed gratitude to Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen for working with them to address these needs. B. Old Hwy 10 Trail Funding Discussion ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 5 Mike McGarvey from SRF Consulting said he is happy to be back discussion this project. The project is fully funded, at this point, by maximizing the funding sources available. He is seeking direction to move ahead with finalizing plans, bidding and construction for next year. The project overview is a 8-10 foot bituminous trail on the west/south side of Old Highway 10. The trail would connect from Highway 96 to the existing trails at Lake Valentine Road. Other features in the project include retaining walls, a boardwalk and stormwater management. The goal is pedestrian safety, connectivity and safe access to Mounds View High School and Valentine Hill Elementary School. He outlined they were finalizing the plans and submitting additional funding applications in the spring of this year. They were successful with MnDOT Safe Routes to School. They are completing bid documents, permitting and right of way acquisition. There are a small number of small private parcels and they need to coordinate with Ramsey County, MnDOT and Bethel University. The total cost is estimated at $3.2 million dollars, contingent on engineering, easement and acquisition is approximately $4.5 million. Funding sources include $1 million from Safe Routes for School which is state money with no match requirements. Regional solicitation money was received last year; that is typically a federal program. This project was funded by unique local tax money. Having non-federal funding sources benefits the permitting, right of way and construction administration process. There is a 20% match that can be matched with City or County money that has been committed. This is 2028-2029 funding, it can be advanced and the project is programmed for 2026 construction, consistent with the other money we have received. The MnDOT money is programmed for 2025-2026. Councilmember Holden asked if County money could be used for the 20% match. Mike McGarvey confirmed. He understands that it can come from the City or the County. There is a bonding request at the legislature. Councilmember Holden had a recent meeting with the Governor. He said he would put it in at $1.6 million and it was already in the Transportation Fund. She asked where the match comes from, if it was in the general bond. She said in the state bonding system, you can't ask for the entire $1.6 million if there isn't any match money. Mike McGarvey said his understanding is that the regional solicitation money can be funded with the money that the County has already committed to the project. The total project cost is $4.5 million. The Safe Routes to School, the regional solicitation has a $200,000 match. The $1.2 million that the County has committed, could cover that $200,000 match requirement. The MnDOT money has no match requirement. The Ramsey County contribution is up from what was presented previously. The total City obligation is $1.25 million. There is the bonding request of $1.65 million. Councilmember Monson asked for clarity regarding Councilmember Holden's comment. If we received $1.6 million at the state level, do we have to match $1.6 million? Councilmember Holden said right now we could only receive $1.2 million. Depending on what pot the bonding money comes from at the State level, there may or may not be a match. The most we can ever get from them is 50% of the total. Councilmember Monson asked if the request should be reduced from $1.6 million to $650,000. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 6 Councilmember Holden said there are different bonding pots. It depends on which pot the money comes from. There isn't always a match. If it's the State General Fund there is a match. There are other bonding pots that would not require a match. Mayor Grant asked if Councilmember Holden believes there will be bonding in this legislative session. Councilmember Holden said she does. Councilmember Monson wants to make sure the request is appropriate. She asked if Councilmember Holden is working with the Governor's office to understand where the money would come from. Councilmember Holden confirmed. Councilmember Monson asked if she will keep the rest of Council up to date on her discussions. She noted she is happy to support with outreach. She wants to make sure the math is right, at the end of the day. Councilmember Holden said it's hard to report anything other than she wants to make sure we know what our match would have to be depending on where it came from. Mayor Grant said we are in the 11t' hour of the State Legislative Session. He said this is a project that we have gotten the lion's share of funding for. We don't want to let that funding lapse. He assumes everyone wants to move forward. Councilmember Rousseau confirmed her interest in moving forward, working on this trail. If we end up in a situation where we receive $0 from the legislature for bonding, she would be interested in looking at bonding through the City to spread it out a little further. Councilmember Holden said the most the City will owe is $1.2 million. Councilmember Monson is in favor of moving this project forward. She would like to see what the MSA status is, for the next discussion. There was information in the memo that some of the $1.2 million would be MSA eligible. She would like to understand the status of that bucket. Mayor Grant said we are behind in MSA monies. They can be advanced, if they exist. He asked Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen and Mike McGarvey to move the discussion forward to the next step. Mike McGarvey said based on the construction value of $3.2-$3.5 million, typically 20% of that will be total engineering costs. That is roughly $640,000-$700,000. To date, they have spent $226,000 on the current contract which brought it to 90% completion. The remaining tasks for this year are the right of way work, permitting, final design, and construction documents ready for bid this winter, roughly $150,0004175,000. There would be $300,000-$350,000 for construction administration. That would be in 2026 and that uses up the total budget. Next steps will be to wrap these items into one contract. If we want to spread things out a little bit, we could hold off on the Construction Administration until sometime in the winter when the projects are bid. The ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 7 advantage of doing it now, is you lock in that price, generally speaking. Bid prices have been pretty accurate recently. He believes we are in the range that has been identified. Councilmember Holden asked when they want to bid this. Mike McGarvey said as early as December as late as February. Councilmember Holden would rather see it in December or January. Mike McGarvey said before it can go out for bid, the right of way and permitting need to be in place. Some of the RCWD rules have changed so they will work with them to make sure the assumptions they made are still valid with the adjustments that have occurred. The advantage of this not being a federal project gives some flexibility on when the right of way is needed. There are small easements needed from private properties for the boardwalk construction. Negotiations with MnDOT, Ramsey County and Bethel are happening for temporary grading areas for storm water management features. That can occur as the plans are being completed. Usually the long lead time is needed for right of way. The permits are drafted and plans will be finalized. Councilmember Monson will take Staff recommendation on whether we add construction support now or later. Mayor Grant asked what is needed from Bethel. Mike McGarvey said there is a small area on the west side of Bethel Lake where they need to do compensatory storage. There is a small, elevated area along Old Highway 10 where it will be graded down to provide that flood storage. Mayor Grant asked if they will be removing buckthorn. Mike McGarvey confirmed. The buckthorn will be cleared out and graded down approximately 3 feet. Councilmember Holden asked how much easement or right of way do we need to purchase. Mike McGarvey said it is under 1,000 square feet. They are small triangular pieces in the back yards. C. Flock Discussion Commander Mike Hankee from the Ramsey County Sheriffs Office said Flock is a fixed license plate reader system. The proposal is to place 19 of them within the contract cities. Flock will send an alert to the Deputy's laptop that a vehicle has a hit, meaning they have a warrant out or it is wanted in a serious crime. The system reads the plate, the information is sent to the laptop in the squad. It will ping their cell phone if they are outside of the squad. It will say what intersection the vehicle was and what direction it was traveling. All of the squad cars have license plate readers built in to the cameras. The Flock cameras just multiplies the system. This technology gives deputies the best chance of apprehending criminals who are entering our area. Surrounding communities are already using Flock cameras. It is a useful technology. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 8 Mayor Grant said that nine cities got together today, including Mounds View and North Oaks and they praised the Flock system. They talked about how effective it was in deterring crime. Councilmember Rousseau asked what the metrics are. Does it improve response time? Commander Hankee it says that a wanted person/vehicle is in the area. The hit is sent within 10 seconds. So that gives a really good idea of the area that individual is in. Without the cameras, a squad would have to happen to drive by it and ping the license plate. Councilmember Rousseau said this system collects public data. Where does the data go, when it becomes the Sheriff's data?. What is the City's responsibility based on the relationship with RCSO and this vendor. Commander Hankee said every 30 days, Flock erases all their data. We don't infiltrate that data unless it's part of an investigation. Councilmember Rousseau asked who has access to the system, other than the deputies. Commander Hankee said the deputies only get alerts. The investigators and supervisors have access to look into the system, if they need to. Even in those cases, there has to be a case number and a report needs to be produced that documents why that information was accessed. Councilmember Rousseau asked if there is a procedures document for the end to end data flow and how it is utilized. She asked what is being collected. She said faces are blacked out, there's no audio. It's just the license plate. She asked if there is an independent person that is clarifying if there is letter I or a number 1. Commander Hankee said the technology is very good for deciphering the plate numbers. It's a learning technology. Councilmember Rousseau asked if they will share the bi-annual audits with us, as they do with the body -worn cameras. Commander Hankee confirmed. Councilmember Rousseau asked if Staff remembered when the last time we saw an audit on the body -worn cameras. City Administrator Jagoe does not recall. Councilmember Rousseau doesn't think she's seen one in the 2-1/2 years that she's been here. Councilmember Weber is curious about the cameras in North Oaks. He asked if they were installed by North Oaks or as part of this program. Commander Hankee said the City of North Oaks wanted them installed. Councilmember Weber asked if any of the contract cities have said no. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 9 Commander Hankee replied no cities have said no. Councilmember Weber asked if this is part of a broader program of installing cameras on Ramsey County roads in non -contract cities. Commander Hankee said there are already some installed that the Sheriff operates. Those are targeted hotspots. Councilmember Weber said if this is part of a broader system of cameras for the County, it seems like it should be assessed to the contract, like all of the policing. This is a broad program. He wondered if the City will have to replace the cameras. Commander Hankee said it's all on a lease program through Flock. So, they are responsible for all the hardware. Councilmember Weber said the City is responsible for our portion of that lease. Commander Hankee confirmed. Councilmember Weber said this is a much broader program and the cost should not be applied to only contract cities. This is a County issue. Not a Contract City issue. Councilmember Holden asked where, in Shoreview, will the cameras be installed. She thinks there should be one on Snelling Avenue. Commander Hankee said the ask right now is for these 19 cameras. They can only cover so much area. Councilmember Holden asked where the closest camera to 96 and Lexington will be. City Administrator Jagoe pointed out the map in the packet and said there are 3 cameras being installed in Arden Hills. The Sheriff is trying to place cameras proportional what we pay for the patrol services. Fifteen percent of the contract cities' cost is paid by Arden Hills, so proportionaly 15% of the camera allocation goes to Arden Hills. They will look to increase after 2026. Councilmember Holden thinks there are other spots in the City that the cameras should be placed. Snelling is always busy. That would be more important than 96 and Lexington when there are already cameras all the way down the road. She wonders how it is calculated, other than traffic flow. Commander Hankee said they are placed in major retail areas that will capture the most vehicles entering into the City. Mayor Grant said when North Oaks proposed to bring in the cameras, they had to go through the home owner association. They went through extensive conversation about data retention. It was a two year process and at the end of it, they decided they wanted the cameras. He thinks this is about reducing crime by aprehending the criminals by reading license plates. The overall cost to Arden Hills for the police contract is $1.5 million. The cost of these cameras has a relitvely small impact. Arden Hills residents benefit from the cameras in Shoreview and North Oaks. For the ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 10 Sheriff to be effective, they need Flock in the areas where they will get the best reach. Having listened to Mounds View and North Oaks about the impact the Flock cameras have had, he would love to see that benefit for Arden Hills residents. Councilmember Rousseau said over 5 years it will go from $8,000 to $17,000. We're doubling the cost over 5 years. She would want to see the data flows, who has access and she would also recommend that it is written into that contract that if there is a merger, acquisition or bankruptcy that they get prior approval to have that data. She will need to see that information before making any decisions. She asked if this data is being combined with other data. Commander Hankee said if they get a hit and it helps them solve a crime. The investigator will put that data into the police report. Councilmember Rousseau asked if that information is under Statute 13 or 169. Commander Hankee said if it's a criminal matter it will be 169. The informaion will be in the investigative report for those deputies. Councilmember Rousseau asked if someone could do a data request. This is public data but now they're a vendor through other government entities. Commander Hankee said if there is a request made, and it's deemed to be information they can have, we are required to provide that information. Councilmember Rousseau asked if a Safe At Home participant can opt out. Commander Hankee said someone in the Safe At Home program, would be protected and that information would not be released. Councilmember Rousseau said that may need to be looked at closer. If 30-days worth of data is released, you could follow someone from White Bear Lake. She just needs a little more information. Councilmember Monson thinks this is a good conversation. We want to give our law enforcement the tools they need. Protecting the data is important. She would like see what North Oaks did. They probably went to levels that we would like to see. She would like to see where the other cameras are. She asked if they are charging the contract cities inappropriately if it really is a full county program. She would like to see that clarity. She asked who decides what gets picked up, what gets kept, what gets used. Do they just pick the serious ones? Or are the alerts only for serious issues? Commander Hankee said it is set up so the deputies select what they get hits on. So he could request major alerts. That could be a stolen vehicle, stolen license plates, they are wanted for a domestic crime. He doesn't get the revoked drivers license and he chooses not to receive them because his phone would be going off all the time. He assumes the deputies working the later hours are selecting a lot more catagories than the officers in the day time. At night, they might pick up a revoked driver and see what's going on. The information gets entered into the system from the BCA and NCIC through the FBI. If a domestic issue occurs, they would tell dispatch to enter it into the NCIC. Flock is fed into that. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 11 Councilmember Monson asked if the alerts are for federal and state crimes. Commander Hankee confirmed. The license plate readers in the squad cars are also federal and state. Councilmember Holden asked about stolen license plates. Commander Hankee said they would get a hit on a reported stolen license plate. Councilmember Holden asked where that information comes from. Commander Hankee said it comes from the BCA. Councilmember Holden said she assumes they don't look at random license plates. She asked if they are going by only the vehicle registered to the known criminal. Do they look at a mother or a wife? Commander Hankee said if they were looking for a male and the pull up to a car and the driver is female, that's not who we're looking for. Councilmember Holden asked if they are only looking for licnese plates that are registered to the offender. Commander Hankee confirmed. He wanted to comment about an earlier statement that someone could follow someone from place to place. He said there are very tight controls over who can access that information. An investigator would have to tie it directly to a case number so they would have to say why they are going in there. Deputies that are on the streets day-to-day, just get the hits. They don't have access or ability to dive into the system. Mayor Grant summarized that he heard Council concerns regarding data safety. He understands that concern. The Flock system increases public safety. He does want to know the information on data safety, he falls on the side of public safety. After hearing Mounds View and North Oaks talk about it, he is definitely pro Flock. Councilmember Monson thinks we can have both. We can give the sheriffs a good tool and we can understand the data privacy. She doesn't think its one or the other. Mayor Grant said we need to decide, as a Council, where are we going. Do we need another work session or should it go to a Council Meeting? Councilmember Weber would like to see how the contract cities fit into the grand scheme of things. Why is this being pinned on to the cities, when he believes it is a County wide issue. He doesn't oppose the idea of the cameras. He thinks it should be billable to policing, as a whole, in the county. He would like to see that information. Councilmember Rousseau said we will be spending $70,000 on this over the next 5 years. We had a big discussion about spending $75,000 on a 20-year park master plan. That is how little funding we have. If we're going to spend money on this, we're doing it right. We won't have any liability if the Flock vendor ends up selling. She recognizes after the DNR incident where they ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 12 were using license plates to look up women. There have been a lot of changes around those laws. She wants to know more about this specific vendor. Where is the system hosted? If they have a data privacy impact assessment, she would love to see it. She would also like to see the procedures and policies they have in place at the Sheriff's Office. And she'd like to see the body worn camera audit. Councilmember Holden agrees it would be good to get the policies and procedures. Mayor Grant summarized we would like to see the policies and procedures, end to end data flow, data access, data access requirements. He requested that information be sent to City Administrator Jagoe. City Administrator Jagoe said there is a portion of the cost for Flock cameras in the 2025 prorated budget that the Ramsey County Sheriff will pay for. It shows the total cost is $41,500. The amount being charged to the contract cities is $28,500. The Sheriff is paying some installation and other costs out of their budget. She asked if she receives the information Council has requested, could this be scheduled for the next council meeting. This was an item scheduled for a previous work session and it was bumped to tonight. The Sheriff's Department is looking for all of the Contract Cities to have their Council decisions by the end of May. Mayor Grant asked if Council is good with moving this to the May 27t' Council Meeting, assuming they get the information requested. Councilmember Monson said she wants answers to all of Councilmember Rousseau's questions. Mayor Grant asked if Council would like to schedule a Special Work Session. Councilmember Weber said he was going to recommend a Special Work Session when we get to agenda planning because we are falling behind. He would like to get through some of the items on the list. Mayor Grant asked Commander Hankee how long he thinks it will take to get the information that has been requested. Commander Hankee hopes it will be sometime this week. D. Old Snelling Speed Limit Discussion Mayor Grant said it has been proposed that the speed limit should be 40 MPH. Councilmember Holden said that is a well utilized road for pedestrians walking their dogs. It will be used even more once the Roseville trail is connected. If it's 35 MPH, they're going to go 40. If we make it 40 MPH they're going to go 45-50. Councilmember Weber would support 35 MPH. Mayor Grant would support 35 MPH. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 13 Councilmember Rousseau likes the standard of 40. Councilmember Weber asked if Staff s recommendation is 40. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he didn't make a recommendation. It was a MnDOT standard. It is an ongoing discussion of cities. You're battling driver behavior. Based on the information the recommendation is 35-40 MPH. He believes 35 MPH is reasonable. Mayor Grant surveyed Council and the consensus is 35 MPH. E. Parks Steering Committee Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he got some responses back. Councilmembers Holden and Rousseau showed interest in volunteering on the committee. Mayor Grant confirmed the two Councilmembers' interest. F. Arden Hills Flags Councilmember Holden said the National Guard requested an Arden Hills flag. We don't have one. We either need to get one or let them know we don't have one. Councilmember Monson said in January, we talked about Staff being the Military Liaison. She asked how we are communicating with the Military in our City if it comes from Councilmember Holden. City Administrator Jagoe said the request did not come to her. Councilmember Holden said she knew the Brigadier General who just received the command. She was invited to a Change of Command Ceremony and when she sent her RSVP they asked if we have a flag. She said she would talk to the City Administrator. Councilmember Monson said she is fine doing a flag. She asked wouldn't this come to the City Administrator first. Council discussed, very specifically, so she is concerned about cross communications where Staff isn't looped in, and it could exclude Councilmembers. Mayor Grant asked Councilmember Holden if she approached the City Administrator. Councilmember Holden said as soon as she got the request, she contacted City Administrator Jagoe and let her know about the request. Mayor Grant said Councilmember Holden used the appropriate process. Councilmember Monson said her point is Staff should have come to Council with it or emailed the entire Council. It shouldn't have come through a Councilmember. City Administrator Jagoe said when the request came in she said we do not have a flag. This would be something the City Council would need to discuss. If we were to purchase flags, do we sell them? What is the policy? Who could request a flag? She told Councilmember Holden that ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 14 this was a discussion for the entire Council. If we were to purchase flags, she would work with Councilmember Holden to respond back to whomever made the request. Mayor Grant asked if there is any objection to doing a flag. Councilmember Rousseau said she doesn't mind giving the Red Bulls a flag. She would want to know the cost. Mayor Grant received consensus from Council to direct Staff to purchase two flags and bring additional information regarding potential future policy for an Arden Hills flag. Council recessed the work session at 6:57 pm. Council reconvened the work session at 9:06 pm. G. Zoning Code Update City Administrator Jagoe presented an update on the work that HGKi is doing for the Zoning Code Updates. They brought back the commercial zoning districts. She is presenting the recommendations that the Planning Commission have moved forward. This is an opportunity for the Council to provide feedback. The consultants presented some lot standard changes. They were looking at site standards in two of the zoning districts. The principal and accessory use table for zoning use districts has been updated, as well as some other development standards like off-street parking, parking requirements to include EV charging stations, signage, landscaping and outdoor lighting. This is an opportunity for Council to see what the Planning Commission reviewed and provide any feedback that Council would like her to share with the consultants. They will start drafting the ordinance language from this discussion. This will come back to the City Council for discussion on the ordinance language. They will also start to work on community engagement. Our new Communications person will be starting in June and she will be tasked with developing a page on the website. This isn't the final language, Staff is just presenting their initial changes. She is seeking direction to have the consultant continue on the path they are on, or if Council would like to see a course correction. Councilmember Rousseau asked if they will talk about interior lighting. She has been past some businesses that have all of their lighting on during off hours. It seems unusual. City Administrator Jagoe said that has not been a topic of discussion. She is not aware of anything in the zoning ordinance or that she remembers other cities doing. She can ask the consultants. Councilmember Rousseau asked what the data center is classified as. City Administrator Jagoe said that falls under the Industrial. There is some information about data centers in the general requirements. She will need to verify those requirements and she can follow up with Council. Councilmember Weber asked if the Planning Commissions cuts are incorporated into the information being presented. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 15 City Administrator Jagoe said HKGi, as part of their memo, summarized the feedback from the Planning Commission to state they were generally supportive. The Commissioners were asked to fill in the table and submit other comments. Only one Commissioner commented in follow up from the meeting. Those have been shared. So those are not incorporated here but it will be part of what they look at as they are doing these language changes. Councilmember Weber asked about School and General Education in R-3 and R-4. He asked what is included. City Administrator Jagoe said today, School and General Education is the K-12. It includes nursery schools, primary, elementary and secondary. Then Higher Education includes universities. Councilmember Weber said a use was added called liquor store. They are permitted in all retail districts. Cannabis stores are prohibited from retail districts. He would like to see Cannabis added into B-2 and B-3. Councilmember Monson said there is a lot to go through. She asked Mayor Grant how he would like to work through it. Councilmember Holden asked if Councilmember Rousseau is saying we should limit when businesses can have their lights on in their building. Councilmember Rousseau was just wondering if there is a standard for that or if it's okay to keep the lights on 24-7 in a commercial building. Councilmember Monson said she is fine with the proposed lot standards. Councilmember Holden said lot standards is fine because there aren't many open lots anymore. Councilmember Rousseau said there is General Business, Service Business and Retail Center in B-2, B-3 and B-4. She wonders if that distinguishes the difference between what's in those business center areas. City Administrator Jagoe said lot standards are being proposed in only those two areas. The site standards is applicable to the B2, B3 and B4. That reduces the front yard setback. The discussion was looking at reducing that from 50 feet to 20 feet in order to promote some pedestrian and bicycle friendly streets. There is one provision where they are talking about reducing the maximum height. That's only applicable in the I-1 District. The last site standard is currently, the allowed lot coverage is 25%. HKGi is recommending increasing the amount to 40%. There are several properties in the B4 District that are non -conforming because they have lot coverage in excess of 25%. If the standard is changed to 40%, they would be conforming properties. Councilmember Holden asked what the issues were in the commercial area when the front yard setbacks were reduced. If you put a trail in, you have no where to put the snow. She asked if the 20 feet is measured from the curb or the property line. City Administrator Jagoe said we can clarify that language as we develop the ordinances. If there needs to be language for snow storage, we can do that. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 16 Councilmember Holden said it's not just snow storage. By the time the county plows it and throws it over we had problems because the buildings were up to the roadways. City Administrator Jagoe will provide that feedback to the consultants. Councilmember Holden said this discusses changing the setbacks. We also have coverage, windows and all that stuff. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. Nothing has been changed in the design standards, at this time. Councilmember Holden said that was one of the issues with Walgreens. The way the building is situated it looks like a dead store. There's no lighting in the windows or anything else that shows the store is open. If buildings are going to be that close to the street we need to make sure that it's appealing. Councilmember Monson said she thinks 20 feet is fine. Some cities reduced set backs so much that they lost their tree canopy. Her only comment is consideration should be made to leave room for trees with sufficient space for them to survive. City Administrator Jagoe moved to the principal and accessory use tables. HKGi provided the updated draft use table. The residential uses were reviewed by Council previously. Tonight is the Commercial and Industrial districts. She outlined there are permitted uses, conditional uses but transitioning some of the conditional uses to be permitted with standards. Those cases would not require public hearings. There would still be a staff review prior to building permit application. Permitted with standards would eliminate the need for a Planning Commission and City Council review. This outlines the permitted and accessory uses might be changed to permitted, permitted with standards or removed from a district. Other changes include liquor store has been added, there are some recommended changes for automotive uses and added in some other name changes and clarifiers. Discussion ensued regarding which districts K-12 schools are permitted in. Councilmember Rousseau doesn't think I -Flex is a good space for research animals. She asked if daycares are permitted in the Industrial area. Discussion ensued regarding what businesses are and are not animal research vs. veterinary. Councilmember Holden said that medical firms that have been there in the past. She knows there were rabbits there for medical devices. We have a medical hub in the north metro. If someone wants to use a building for medical research that may save a human's life, where would be a good place for that? Councilmember Rousseau thinks that should go in the I-1 district, not I -Flex. Councilmember Holden said there are a lot of labs that start out small. They may only rent a portion of a building. They do a lot of research. She wouldn't mind it being permitted in both. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 17 Councilmember Weber agrees. It is a conditional use. The consultants are proposing to keep it as a conditional use. Council would have the opportunity to review it. If it were something that Council disagrees with, there would be the opportunity say no. There are a lot of research opportunities that aren't abusive to animals. He doesn't object to anything opening back in that area. Mayor Grant asked Council their preference and the majority wanted to still allow animal research in the I -Flex district as a conditional use. Councilmember Monson said she would like commercial recreation outdoor to be permitted standard, mixed use, B, CB, BC. She doesn't know why we would limit that to only one district. We should let that happen as long as they meet the standards. Councilmember Weber agrees but he would also like to include Gateway. Discussion ensued regarding outdoor recreation uses and where there is space to build such a business. Councilmember Weber would like to see cannabis businesses permitted in more locations. Liquor store use is listed as permitted, across the board. He wonders if there is a legal reason that has to be permitted. City Administrator Jagoe said they are treating it similar to a retail use. She is not aware of any regulation. Councilmember Weber thinks cannabis businesses should be allowed exactly the same as liquor stores. He thinks a liquor store use should be permitted with standards, the same as a brewery, a distillery or a brew pub. Cannabis uses should mirror whatever standards apply to liquor store. Council agreed that the proposed districts that allow liquor store use should be permitted with standards. Councilmember Weber said all of the cannabis uses should be the same as liquor stores. Councilmember Holden said they keep changing the rules. Until there is some stabilization in the cannabis regulations she doesn't agree. Councilmember Weber said it still needs to be addressed. This is the time to do that. Mayor Grant doesn't agree that cannabis should be treated the same a liquor. He is fine with the way it was presented. They aren't finished with the cannabis rules and regulations so he would prefer not to open it up yet. Once it's open you can't close it so easily. Councilmember Rousseau is in favor of expanding the cannabis retail sales use and allowing them in the same spaces as the liquor stores. She thinks it will be very hard to attract a business when it's only allowed in the B-4 district. Councilmember Weber asked if she supported that use as permitted with standards in B-2, B-3 and B-4. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 18 Councilmember Rousseau confirmed. Councilmember Holden said her only argument is it's a destination. Councilmember Monson said it would be a conditional use. She would want a full picture, with tax revenues. She is okay with not being super aggressive with it. She thinks it will be a nightmare for whoever does this first. She also doesn't want to forever delegate it to a corner. There is probably a balance but she isn't sure it can be found at 9:45 at night. Mayor Grant said cannabis is coming but it has been a nightmare for a lot of states. Councilmember Holden asked if how much money it makes is a deciding factor. Councilmember Monson confirmed. Discussion ensued regarding surrounding communities and how they are treating cannabis. Councilmember Monson thinks we should pay attention to where the residents are zoned. It states R-1, R-2 and R-3 would allow single family, 2-unit, townhome row houses. She doesn't think R-2 should allow town homes or row homes. She wonders if R-3 should even allow single family homes. She asked why a manufactured home park is allowed as a conditional use in R-1. Mayor Grant summarized we are re -writing the city code so it will be easier to read and easier to understand. It has come down to changing one or two things here and there. That wasn't the intent when we started. There are still a lot of things to discuss. He thinks this should be brought back. H. Agenda Planning Mayor Grant said we can bump the Gateway Funding discussion because that isn't time sensitive. Councilmember Rousseau said we need a special work session to discuss the Flock Cameras from RCSO. Councilmember Monson outlined that could be the Flock Camera discussion plus HGKi updates. She said a comment came in because residents were expecting there to be a Chicken discussion. Mayor Grant said there is a lot to discuss regarding the land use table. He surveyed the Council asking how many want to discuss chickens. Councilmember Monson said once the door was opened, she has received a lot of comments. Mayor Grant proposes three members of Council form a task force for chickens and ducks. Then come back to let the full Council know what was decided. He said Councilmembers Monson, Rousseau and Weber want to talk about this. It could be a long discussion. He supports the three of them doing the research. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — MAY 12, 2025 19 Councilmember Rousseau would love to do that and add a few other topics for task forcing to check some more items off the list. Councilmember Monson doesn't like only three. She would prefer the entire Council weigh in. Councilmember Holden said there is history, there's a survey. She asked if Staff is going to go out and dig all that stuff up. Mayor Grant said if the three who want to have the discussion would prefer to have a five member review, then it's a five member review. He was just tossing it out there because there seemed to be interest from three councilmembers and he was looking for a way to make progress on that item. Discussion ensued regarding a possible date for a special work session and what agenda items could be on there. Council agreed to a special work session and special council meeting on Wednesday, May 28, 2025. I. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion This item was not discussed. 4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES None. ADJOURN Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Work Session at 10:00 p.m. ifer Estling David Grant Deputy Clerk Mayor