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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-09-25 WSlt �-i )I�EN HILLS Approved: July 14, 2025 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION JUNE 9, 2025 5:30 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor David Grant called to order the City Council Work Session at 5:30 p.m. Present: Mayor David Grant, Councilmembers Kurt Weber, Emily Rousseau Brenda Holden and Tena Monson Absent: None Also present: City Administrator Jessica Jagoe; Public Works Director/City Engineer David Swearingen; Finance Director Joua Yang and Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL None. 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None. 3. AGENDA ITEMS A. Sponsorship Discussion Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky presented the Sponsorship Policy. Council has previously expressed interest in having a sponsorship program for Parks and Recreation programs, events or upgrading city parks. She presented a brochure and policy for Council's consideration. She researched surrounding communities to learn about their sponsorship programs. It is very common for Cities to have sponsorship opportunities for their recreation programs. This would allow local businesses to sponsor events and programs. She created a list of 20 cities that have a separate web page on their website for their sponsorship programs. She has experience with sponsorship programs with her previous employers. She thinks having a brochure to advertise sponsorship opportunities will make it easy for businesses or individuals to sponsor ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 2 events and programs. She outlined the information that would be collected on the form. She said having a formal policy gets the City and businesses on the same page regarding expectations. She asked Council to look at the sample brochure. It lists the recreation focused events that we currently hold and it estimates the attendance for the events. She outlined there are different levels of sponsorships. She created the draft policy based on the comments from the City Attorney. Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky said the policy outlines what types of businesses will be allowed to sponsor programs and events. Council has shared concerns in the past that a smokers group may want to sponsor something. The policy outlines that we have sole discretion on who we will allow to sponsor events. Councilmember Holden said the photos in the brochure should be more generic. She thinks the white print is hard to read. She thinks the Lions Community event should not be on there. They are non-profit. If we do that, we'd have to include the church that does a Halloween party and Ribfest. We need to stick to City events. She wondered if these sponsorships are tax deductible. She thinks cannabis should be included in the list of who can't sponsor events. She noted the item that said there would be publicity through the city's newsletter or website. She asked if that is just a thank you. She thinks publicity should be explicitly outlined. Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky assumes that there would be a regular feature in the newsletter that will outline sponsorships. Councilmember Holden thought we should use job titles, rather that Staff names if we are producing print copies of the brochure. Councilmember Rousseau said she likes the simplicity of this. She is fine with there being a name attached, so people will know who to reach out to. She asked if a business wanted to sponsor with frisbees, soccer balls or water bottles, what would the process look like? Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky said she originally had a blank space for the business to write in what they wanted to sponsor. She removed that because she didn't want to complicate things. She thinks that can still be an option, even if it's not listed on the form. Councilmember Weber agrees the white writing is hard to read. He asked if the plan is to develop a web page on the website for this. Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky said she would like to see that in the future. Mayor Grant said businesses were mentioned. It doesn't specifically say it is a business sponsorship. He wonders if it should state that it is business and organization sponsorships. Councilmember Holden said individuals do donate to the City. Mayor Grant asked if we would do a banner for an individual. Do we even want to? Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky thinks individuals can sponsor events or give in -kind gifts. During her research, she found most cities just call it a "Sponsorship Program". The unspoken assumption is that a business will sponsor so they get recognized in the newsletter or a table at the event. Typically an individual isn't going to want a banner or a table at the event. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 3 Mayor Grant said it calls out political or religious organizations. He thought it could be more specific to include political action committees, candidates and political parties. Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky said the policy mentions political or religious organizations or sensitive social issues. Mayor Grant would like to see it specifically call out political organizations/candidates/parties. He wouldn't want to see Touch -A -Truck turn into a political campaign event for a certain candidate. We don't want to sell our events so the sponsor can campaign. Parks and Recreation Manager Skaticky doesn't think she's ever had anyone other than a small business reach out to sponsor. Mayor Grant said he would be happy if the materials delineated political organizations. He asked about the booths. He asked if everyone has to pay $50 to have a booth. Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky said no. She used the example of Touch -A -Truck. If someone is going to contribute to the event by bringing a vehicle, they wouldn't be required to pay. She used to run a large community event with over 3,000 attendees. There were 25 sponsors at each event. They each got a booth. After 25, they would not accept any more. Any organization that contributed by being a part of the experience of the event wouldn't be charged. Councilmember Monson said it looks good. She thinks all the big pieces are in place and the little details will work themselves out when an event is hosted. She suggested presenting to the EDC so they are aware of the program and see what feedback they may have. Councilmember Weber asked about the language to include "religious or political affiliation". Ultimately the Council and City Staff have the final say. He said rather than delineating so much that it becomes a pamphlet. He thinks stating that any religious or political affiliation is not allowed. Mayor Grant thinks "parties, candidates or political action committees" covers it. Councilmember Weber asked for clarification on a booth. He said we are offering space for a booth; we aren't providing a booth. Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky confirmed. Councilmember Weber thought that could be made clearer in the policy language. Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky said that these aren't the only documents that sponsors will get. When she has worked with these types of programs in the past, the sponsor is asked to complete this paperwork but that is a small portion of the communication they will receive. It will be clearly laid out that no physical booth will be provided. Councilmember Weber said there is a payment option so the sponsor may have made payment before getting that extra communication. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 4 Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky said sponsors typically reach out first to express interest. That is when they will get the information, prior to payment. Councilmember Holden said if you look at the Easter Egg Hunt or the Halloween event, there are a lot of games. Staff is doing most of the work. It would be nice if someone could sponsor the golf game at the Halloween event or the one of the individual games during the Easter Egg Hunt. Mayor Grant said the Arden Hills Foundation buys the pumpkins for the Pumpkin Hunt. He doesn't know that they would want a booth, but they may want their name on a sandwich board. Councilmember Monson thinks Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky has a good vision for what she wants. She thinks they have given good feedback. In the interest of time, she would like to move on. B. Utility Rates — SAC/WAC Discussion Stacie Kvilvang, Financial Consultant from Ehlers began the discussion regarding the utilities on TCAAP that Arden Hills is responsible for; to include the utilities under the spine road, the water tower and ancillary things that help the water tower get water to the places it needs to go. The costs are about $14 million today. The intent was that Arden Hills would bond for those improvements. The preference is to bond through the 429 Assessment process. What that means is those costs are assessed to the property owners, so they pay through the property taxes. It's the lowest risk debt option for the City. The other option is to pay for the improvements with SAC and WAC fees. They would have a set debt schedule but the City would have to wait for the SAC and WAC units to come in with development. That's riskier. What if there is a recession? Or what if something fell through? Financial Consultant Kvilvang said TCAAP has always been the "thumb" and the "California Parcel". That is how it has been discussed in the past. The thumb parcel will be developed by Ryan Companies and the California parcel is still available to Alatus and other sub -developers. There is benefit to the property owner of the thumb parcel. When you run numbers for SAC and WAC units to payoff that debt, the thumb would only be paying about $380,000. Financial Consultant Kvilvang said for the purpose of this analysis, we know the California parcel is going to happen once we get to a development deal. They intend to assess those improvements. We can give latitude to the developer if they want to spread those equally on a per -square foot basis or they can put proportionate shares on the users. The single-family residential can't support as big of a burden as the apartments or the commercial properties. The thumb parcel is under a different developer, so SAC and WAC fees have been set. That will set the schedule for the City. There will be a separate schedule for SAC and WAC in TCAAP. All of that can change. What happens if the County doesn't sell the land for $1.00? The City has been clear that we want assessment debt because that is the least risk to the City. Conversations will have to happen with Ryan about how we put a proportionate share on the thumb parcel. The numbers she is presenting may change based on those conversations. Mayor Grant said with the 429 Assessments there are two different bonding scenarios. Financial Consultant Kvilvang confirmed. That is because the improvements are happening at different times. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 5 Councilmember Holden asked how much we can bond per year. Financial Consultant Kvilvang said it is pretty much unlimited. This debt is supported by assessments; it doesn't count against the City's debt limit. Councilmember Holden said we had to add a piece from Arden Hills to TCAAP so it was redundant. She didn't see that number in here. Financial Consultant Kvilvang asked if that is the loop that Ryan is paying for in one lump sum. Public Works Director and City Engineer thinks that is Old Highway 10, across from Big 10. He will have to look at it. Financial Consultant Kvilvang said you can't reimburse yourself for that with bond proceeds. She asked if Councilmember Holden remembers the amount or how it was paid. Mayor Grant asked if we are discussing the section across from Bethel. The redundant loop. Councilmember Holden said we wouldn't have put that in, if it weren't for TCAAP. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said the one across from Big 10 extended north to Outlot A. Mayor Grant said we need to remember those that were put in for TCAAP. Councilmember Holden asked who would hold the 429. Alatus is talking about reverting and returning land if he doesn't want it. She is worried about where the 429 lands. Financial Consultant Kvilvang said 429 is statutory. You have to do a feasibility study for the improvements to figure out how much they will cost. Whoever owns the land will do a petition of waiver. That means they won't contest the assessments. They accept them for the improvements. If Alatus buys the land for $1.00, he does mass grading and something happens where he can't build anything. He owns the land and he will continue to pay those assessments. If there is a mortgage and it gets foreclosed, the bank will continue to pay those assessments. If the County wants to get it on a reverter because they will have to pay whatever Alatus has into that, the County will have to pay. The assessments won't get wiped out. Councilmember Holden said no matter who owns the 429 the City is covered. Financial Consultant Kvilvang confirmed. She said in the rare case of a foreclosure, they can sometimes be wiped out but they can be reassessed. Mayor Grant asked who can reassess them. Financial Consultant Kvilvang said the City can. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen asked if feasibility studies were done for the Old Highway 10 and Bethel watermain extensions, and if not, can we do that after the fact? ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 6 Financial Consultant Kvilvang said we can't reimburse ourselves with bond proceeds for prior costs unless there is a reimbursor resolution. The time clock has well run out for that. It would have to be paid through a different mechanism or fee schedule that would have to be created. Councilmember Holden said we need to make sure that is included as part of the cost of putting in utilities. Councilmember Monson asked is there a question on the fee schedule for the thumb parcel. She doesn't see anything in the materials. She asked if there is a limit on when you can start the 429 assessment. Financial Consultant Kvilvang said we would start that process once the feasibility study is done. Councilmember Monson asked if Ryan will do SAC and WAC for the thumb parcel since they are already developing the land. Financial Consultant Kvilvang said it would be easier to use SAC and WAC but the numbers would have to be higher. They are paying a disproportionately low share. Councilmember Weber asked if the $8,950 covers moving forward? Not including the retroactive 10-acres? Financial Consultant Kvilvang said potentially. Because that's paid at the time of the building permit and they already have their permit. So this will be for the future phases. Mayor Grant said in the diagram there is a gap. He assumes the first bond would be the $4,620,000 and the second bond would be $9,300,000? Financial Consultant Kvilvang confirmed. The trunk utilities would be first. She asked Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen if we also have to do the booster station and the Roseville water main at the same time. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said the booster station is tied to the spine road. The Roseville water main is just being constructed at the same time. Financial Consultant Kvilvang said we would probably want to bond the first one at $6 million. The balance would come with the second bond issue. Councilmember Monson asked about the Ryan Companies. Is there a time limit on the 429? Because maybe the County builds in 2026, but what if they wait until 2028? Does it time out? Is it customary to go back 4 years after something is built? Financial Consultant Kvilvang said the feasibility study would be done sooner rather than later. The County will be undertaking that as part of the pricing. They need to understand what the costs are. We will know that up front. The County would have to be willing to waive it as the current owner because they haven't sold the other 30 acres to Ryan. Councilmember Monson asked if Staff knew when the feasibility study will be completed. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 7 Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said he has a meeting next week regarding the feasibility study and the booster station. Councilmember Monson clarified that Staff doesn't need any more direction other than we want to stay with the 429, we want Ryan to be faulted in with their fair share, and when we're ready we'll have to get two bonds. Financial Consultant Kvilvang confirmed. City Administrator Jagoe asked about the Outlot A property. She said as we are adjusting the fee schedule to the $8,950, should we establish a fee for the Ryan, Outlot A, proportionate to their share? Financial Consultant Kvilvang said that can happen over the next few months. There has to be a discussion with Ryan, first. The number will go up significantly for a proportionate share and they need to be aware of that because it will come into play with their land price from the County. C. Spring Lake Park Lions Club Donation Discussion Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said the Spring Lake Park Lions Club donated $15,000 last year. It was earmarked for a chain link fence at a park, but now MNDOT is paying for the fence. The PTRC recommended using the money for two basketball hoops at Cummings and the balance going towards picnic table upgrades at Arden Oaks and Freeway Park. Councilmember Holden said usually they like to have something attributed to them. If we do it piecemeal you can't really do that. She would like to pick one thing. She wondered if we have enough pickleball nets. She knows we just ordered 4. Getting 2 or 4 for Hazelnut might be a good use. She said there is a new sponsorship through Met Council for benches. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said with this year's park improvement project there was a line item for amenities to include benches and picnic tables. The total was $23,000. That was taken out of the project so we could move forward with it. Councilmember Holden asked if we could use the money for the courts at Arden Manor. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said $15,000 is a drop in the bucket based on what that court needs. Councilmember Holden asked if there are wire hoops on all the basketball courts. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said the hoops at Cummings park are not. Councilmember Rousseau said the PTRC had recommended the picnic tables. She said we could put a little plaque on them saying thank you and recognizing the Lions. She is in favor of the hoops, as well. She saw that PTRC also recommended spending the money on events. She is not in favor of that. The Lions want to see this money go toward park improvements. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 8 Mayor Grant is in favor of replacing the basketball hoops. Those hoops get a lot of use and they are really old. He doesn't think we need to choose one thing. He thinks the Lions would be okay if the funds are split between a couple of improvements. He wouldn't be opposed to putting a plaque on a picnic table. Councilmember Weber agrees with the basketball hoops. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said that court got new pavement in 2019. The hoops weren't replaced when that pavement went in. One of the hoops is in the middle of the pavement. It will have to be cut out and the pavement will need to be replaced. So the cost of that, is more than just $5,000 for the hoops. Also, the surface was re -striped and painted last year. Councilmember Weber asked if the poles would be salvageable. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said no. Basketball hoops are their own system. Councilmember Weber is leaning towards picnic tables. Councilmember Monson thinks the picnic table and bench idea is great. If basketball hoops can't be installed at Cummings, are there other hoops that would make sense to replace? Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen would have to check to be certain, but he believes Cummings is the last park with the old hoops. Councilmember Holden asked how much a shelter is at Cummings. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said the latest shelters were very expensive with the concrete. The new structures need new footings. The price came in at $85,000 for that size of a structure. He said the shelter Councilmember Holden is talking about was $35,000 for the materials but the concrete work was so expensive. Mayor Grant asked if one of the hoops could be upgraded. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. The hoop on the east would have a lesser impact. It can be done. There would need to be some patchwork. He thinks a hoop, installed with the footing, will be about $7,000 to complete. Mayor Grant said you have to be able to upgrade the backboard. He thinks that would spend almost 2/3rd of the money. That would give us all new hoops throughout the city. Councilmember Weber agrees it would be nice. It seems like a partial job. He has worked in Public Works. Cutting into new surfaces is not something you want to do. He asked if there is a cost estimate on upgrading the park benches or picnic tables. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen doesn't have it broken out, item by item. From memory he believes $23,000 is needed for the amenities in this year's park improvement project. That includes benches, shade structure and a tree. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 9 Councilmember Monson thinks the basketball hoop was a missed opportunity. We had the chance to upgrade and right now it seems like it's not a great choice. She likes the idea of a bench with a shade structure. There isn't much shade at Arden Oaks. That would be a functional upgrade. Her other idea is plant a tree that will provide shade after twenty years. Councilmember Holden said she would like to see two benches at Arden Oaks. It's a dry strip of property. If there is money left, we should buy another pickle ball net because we'll probably need it. Councilmember Monson asked if the new pickleball nets have been deployed. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen said they have been received. He isn't sure if installation is complete. Councilmember Rousseau said after the conversation, she doesn't think basketball hoops is the best way to spend this money. She thinks the shade structure sounds nice. She is open to letting Staff decide if that is a bench under a structure. Mayor Grant summarized that two items have been brought to Council and we have said no. Councilmember Rousseau thinks if PTRC had known the asphalt work that would be involved with the hoops they probably would not have made that recommendation. They did suggest picnic table and bench upgrades. Councilmember Holden said we have a bench inventory, that would have been the hardest thing for the Active Living grant. She assumes that's up to date. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. He said we explored this several years ago. There was some obstacle in the way that didn't allow us to use that. He will dig back and figure out what that is. He summarized that the money will be used on park amenities, mainly shade structures. He believes the shade structure he will select is a picnic table with a shade structure over it. They are used a lot at the dog park. D. 7511 Anniversary Planning Subcommittee Discussion City Administrator Jagoe said we have started to advertise for volunteers to sign up to be a part of the 75' Anniversary Committee. She asked Council to discuss if one or two members of Council will be involved in those planning efforts. For Staff, she thinks she will be involved, along with the Senior Communications Coordinator and the City Clerk and/or Deputy Clerk. The deadline for applications is June 30''. After that date, she will work with the Council Liaison regarding the interview and selection process. She reminded that during previous discussions we talked about having 10 or fewer members. If we get more that that, there may need to be an interview process to narrow it down. Mayor Grant asked if any Councilmembers are interested in serving on the committee. Councilmembers Holden and Monson raised their hands. He asked if we want two. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 10 Councilmember Holden said it depends on the direction we are going. There is a lot of historical information out there and she wants to bring that information in. If the committee isn't interested in the history side of it, then she's not really interested. Mayor Grant said he would like to see that information included. Councilmember Monson said we should definitely include that. She thinks she and Councilmember Holden can divide and concur on the tasks. Councilmember Weber agrees we want the historical information included. He asked if anyone has reached out to the resident historian. Councilmember Holden said she forwarded the historian's information to City Administrator Jagoe. She said the original Perry family is still here. They are in their 90s now. Mayor Grant said the Cmiels used to own part of TCAAP. They are still here, as well. Councilmember Weber said he supports going full bore on the historical information. Councilmember Rousseau would prefer to have two Councilmembers serve on the committee. She loves archives and is happy to go with the historical aspect. She has seen a lot of documents from New Brighton regarding Rice Creek Commons. She wants to highlight the historical aspect and she wants it wrapped up with an event where the community can come together and celebrate. Councilmember Holden said the historian has given a lot of information to the New Brighton Historical Society. Councilmember Rousseau asked if the historian has a library of science. Councilmember Holden said he's a history teacher and his sole purpose for the last several years is pulling together this information. Mayor Grant summarized that we will move forward with two Councilmembers joining the committee. He agrees there needs to be a city-wide event. Councilmember Holden agrees on the city-wide event. She asked if Gateway funds, maybe the majority of it, can be used on this kind of event. She asked what the Council thinks of that. Mayor Grant said it needs to be used to promote events. It could certainly be used to promote that celebration. Councilmember Weber said in the last discussion regarding Gateway funding, Council was going to hold some money from this year, to use early next year for the ice swim. He was clarifying if we are talking about 2026 funds. Councilmember Holden confirmed. She said it would make things easier to have funds for marketing. Mayor Grant asked how many members we want on the committee. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 11 Councilmember Monson thought we could decide that based on how many applicants there are. Councilmember Holden thought we should decide on a general event time. Is this a summer or fall celebration? Mayor Grant said in the fall, people are around and kids are back in school. That could be advantageous. Councilmember Rousseau would like the committee to look at times, but we need to take MEA and activities in surrounding communities into account. She's open to it being any time from summer through early October. Mayor Grant thought this can be left up to the committee. Councilmember Rousseau is open to using the Gateway funding but she wants an understanding of how much of that money will be used. Is it sending a save -the -date flyer to all residents? What is the marketing strategy? Councilmember Holden said she isn't sure. But we can't plan anything if there's no money. Mayor Grant estimates that we can expect right around $19,000 for 2026. Councilmember Rousseau said as far as Staff being on a committee, she feels like City Administrator Jagoe is already spread pretty thin. She thinks the City Clerk and the Senior Communications Coordinator would be sufficient. Mayor Grant said we may want to have the Community Development Director involved, once that position is filled. Councilmember Holden said for the 50th Anniversary, there was a parade that ended in a park. She wondered if there is any interest in a parade. Mayor Grant said the intent of this discussion is to decide on the committee, not plan the event. Councilmember Holden agreed, but she said they need some parameters to begin with. Councilmember Monson thinks they should create a budget and then come back with a marketing amount to use the Gateway funds for. Councilmember Weber agrees. He suggested the sponsorship program that was discussed earlier may be a source for funding this event. This is a big deal and he thinks Arden Hills businesses will recognize that. Public Works Director and City Engineer Swearingen wanted to address the parade idea. He said Ramsey County is cracking down on the required traffic control for an event like this. It is way more expensive than it has been in the past to close or shift traffic on a County Road. Traffic control would be a cost that needs to be factored in. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 12 E. Chickens and Ducks Discussion City Administrator Jagoe said this item was discussed at the May 12 work session. Council asked Staff to bring back the Chicken ordinance for discussion and include discussion on ducks. She provided the current ordinance on keeping chickens. Currently there is one valid Chicken License in Arden Hills. There is additional information on the keeping of ducks included in the packet. There were a couple communities that have language looking at ducks as fowl. Staff is seeking direction on changes to the Chicken Ordinance or on the keeping of ducks. Councilmember Weber has a list of items he would like to address. He said we currently allow a maximum of three hens. He would like it to be six. Still no roosters. The current permit requirement is a fee by resolution and 100% consent by the neighbor, he would like to see it be an annual permit with a $15.00 fee that could cover all birds. He thinks the reading requirement is biased and he would recommend using the U of M Extension materials. He thinks the lot minimum size is redundant and there shouldn't be a minimum. It should be dictated by setbacks. The allowed coop size is currently 12-25 square feet. He would support a mandatory minimum coop size of 20 square feet. The run and pen size is currently 10 square feet. He agrees with that. The exercise yard is currently 174 square feet per bird. U of M Extension suggests that an exercise yard should be optional. He agrees. The current temperature requirement is to keep it at 45-85 degrees. U of M does not have a recommendation to manage that. They suggest proper insulation and recommend certain breeds. Mayor Grant asked if he is suggesting we remove the temperature requirement. Councilmember Weber confirmed. No requirements outside of coop design, to include insulation. Recommend hearty breeds of birds. Councilmember Holden said we wouldn't require a light bulb or anything, when it's 45 degrees below zero because the U of M says that's fine? Councilmember Weber said the U of M does recommend a bulb. Our ordinance specifies a temperature range, which is hard to enforce. The ordinance says the coop must be removed within 60 days of discontinuing keeping chickens and it's not allowed to be used for storage. He thinks it should be allowed, if there is an additional accessory unit available for the property and the structure is in good enough condition. The current ordinance requires a 6' solid fence with 6' year-round vegetation. He recommends predator -safe fencing with no visual screen mandate. Mayor Grant asked if he agrees with the 6' height requirement. Councilmember Weber thinks the height is okay, but currently only a wood privacy fence is allowed, he would like residents to have the option to use chain link. Councilmember Monson said when he's talking about visual screening, they still need to be fenced in. Councilmember Weber confirmed. Predator safe fencing is 6'. Mayor Grant isn't sure if chain link fence is predator proof. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 13 Councilmember Weber said on the topic of manure and cleanliness our current ordinance states daily cleaning and annual deep clean. He thinks that's impossible to enforce. He thinks saying clean and dry bedding and composting of the waste is sufficient. He said leg banding is currently required for all chickens. He has read that it can be considered inhumane for the animal. So he would like to see that removed. He thinks coop confinement and licensing is sufficient. Councilmember Rousseau has ideas on how to make the ordinance more user friendly. She was looking at 1325.07 which is Performance Standards, under subsection D. She agrees that six is a good number of hens to allow. There are a lot of guidelines vs. policy. It states it is for urban chickens and we are a suburban area. Her understanding is that six hens is a good amount of birds if you are looking to feed a family of four. Under subdivision 6A, 2A there is a 25 square foot. She understands we are looking at other setbacks. Councilmember Holden asked what is 25 square feet. Councilmember Rousseau said it is permitted within the setback. Councilmember Weber asked if he addressed the setbacks. Councilmember Holden said he addressed the coop size and minimum lot size. She wants to make sure we are comparing apples to apples. Councilmember Rousseau said there was B, as well. It said a residential property with a detached garage and an accessory structure/shed will be allowed a third accessory structure. She asked if dog kennels are considered an accessory structure. City Administrator Jagoe said they are not. Councilmembers asked for confirmation that dog kennels are not an accessory structure but chicken coops are. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. Councilmember Rousseau said under Subdivision 6A, 2E it states the outer limit for coop, including pen and exercise yard, shall be located closer to the principal dwelling upon the property. She would like to remove that. She understands that sometimes things happen and we still will have a setback in place for that. She asked for confirmation that there is currently a 2- year license for the chickens? City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. Councilmember Rousseau said when we look at F, it said "prior to issuance of an annual license the prospective license holder must provide a plan..." so that is contradictory to the 2-year license. Under H, it states "the coop shall be constructed and maintained in a workman like manner". She would like that to be removed. She is open to looking at the standards a little further. It seems out of scope. Number 4 states "screening shall be installed around the perimeter of the area dedicated for the screening of chickens". The last sentence says "acceptable forms of screening are 6' tall, solid fence and vegetation." She would like to strike that. It seems too prescriptive with the screening since it's already in the back yard. It also states that it can't be in ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 14 the line of sight. It states "chickens must not be housed in a residential house or attached or detached garage". She thinks we can combine number 5 with number 2, that would shorten it. Number 7 states "all grain and food for the use of hens on premises". She thinks that is encapsulated with G outlining the rodent proof coop construction. She thought that could be removed. The last sentence in Number 6 says "failure to comply may result in officer removing chickens from the premises or revocation of the chicken license." She thinks that is redundant and covered in Number 9. She sees opportunities to combine some of these items together to reduce the length of the document. Councilmember Monson generally agrees but doesn't know how deep we need to go. She thinks the core issues are you need more hens to keep them warm. She doesn't agree with the requirement to get the neighbor's approval. She thinks there should be a neighbor notification, but residents should be able to do what they want on their property and shouldn't have to seek neighbor's approval. She agrees the visual screen should be removed. That makes it very expensive. Councilmember Holden has some issues. This is all wonderful for the people who want chickens. There was a survey and a significant amount of people don't want chickens. What about them? Now we're saying someone can place a chicken coop as far away from their property and the neighbor will have to look at it but the person with the chickens don't have to. Chickens smell. It may be hard to enforce, but having requirements gives a leg to stand on. If the coop odor is detected by a neighbor, we can say they are in violation and make them clean it. There doesn't seem to be any consideration for the residents who don't want chickens. We have to balance this. Mayor Grant doesn't think we need to fix everything in here. He thinks Councilmembers Weber and Rousseau have given us a number of things to look at. He's fine with moving from a 2-year license to an annual license at $15.00. Councilmember Weber said it is currently per bird. He is suggesting one license, essentially permitting the coop, not the animals. Discussion ensued regarding the current length and cost of a license. It is a 2-year license for $15.00. Councilmember Holden asked what the cost for Animal Control is. She knows Animal Control has picked up roosters running down the street. Mayor Grant said it is more than $15.00. Councilmember Holden thinks it's $100.00 a day. Mayor Grant asked if Councilmember Holden thinks the license fee should be higher. Councilmember Holden confirmed. She would support it being $20.00. We are going to have that. We've had it and they aren't even licensed. Mayor Grant asked what Council feels about $20.00. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 15 Discussion ensued regarding changing the license fee to $20.00 but have it remain a 2-year license. Mayor Grant said for the coop, if we allow six chickens, a flat minimum of 20. He doesn't know if that meets the minimum for chickens. Councilmember Weber said the U of M recommends 2-3 square feet per bird. That would be 18 square feet maximum on six birds. Councilmember Monson asked if we want to put a maximum size on this. Mayor Grant said it currently reads 12-25. Should the minimum be 20-25? Councilmember Rousseau would like up to 30 be allowed. Councilmember Monson asked if the 20-25 includes the run. Mayor Grant said that is just the coop. He noted the time and notified there was about five minutes before the Regular City Council Meeting. Councilmember Weber said he would like to touch on setbacks. He thinks 20 feet. Council recessed the work session at 6:55 pm. Council reconvened the work session at 8:14 pm. Mayor Grant summarized the changes proposed during previous discussion. He said we need to talk about the exercise yard or the temperatures. Councilmember Weber said 174 square feet per bird is enormous. The U of M says it's optional, they recommend the run is typically enough for exercise. Mayor Grant said if we increase the number of birds by three, you increase the exercise yard. Councilmember Holden said even on farms, chickens don't go far from the coop. Some will wander but most of them stick close. She thinks it can be changed to 200 for six chickens. That's 10 x 20. Councilmember Monson asked if it is optional. But if they have one it should be 200 square feet? Or do we want to require an exercise yard? Councilmember Holden said she thinks we need to require and exercise yard. Coyotes can jump over the six-foot fences in the back yard. She thinks we should require an exercise yard for the health of the birds. Councilmember Weber reiterated that U of M says that is optional. Mayor Grant said giving them an exercise yard is important. Having an area that is 10 x 20 isn't that big. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 16 Councilmember Weber said most people are going to use their fenced in back yard. Those who don't have a fenced in back yard will be at a disadvantage or not be able to have chickens. You are talking about adding 6' fencing and a 10 x 20, you are cutting off a portion of a back yard for everyone who gets chickens. Otherwise they would have to fence their whole yard and that is cost prohibitive. He thinks the exercise yard should be optional. Mayor Grant doesn't agree. Councilmember Monson said she thinks it can be optional but if a resident chooses to have one we can set a limit. The big items for her are the setbacks, neighbor approval and the screening. She agrees that if someone has a fenced in yard, they may let them run. If a coyote or weasel gets to it, that's part of it. Councilmember Holden said we don't care about the health of the animal? Councilmember Monson said we don't regulate people about their dogs. We don't tell them they have to leave space for their dogs to exercise. Councilmember Rousseau is fine with removing the exercise yard requirement. She still would like the ordinance to require neighbor approval. She knows that her neighbors that have barking dogs, don't ask for approval. She recognizes individual property rights, but she thinks for the health of the community, we need to require consent from both neighbors. Councilmember Monson asked for clarification that she wants approval vs. notification. Mayor Grant said we can get back to that. He wanted to focus on the run language. Councilmember Weber said he doesn't have any issue with the original language regarding runs. He believes we have consensus that it be optional. Mayor Grant said it is 3-2 so he agrees it is a consensus. Councilmember Holden said if it's optional, why not just take it out. If we aren't requiring it, why even mention it? Councilmember Monson asked if we want to give a minimum size. She is okay cutting it out. Mayor Grant said we could state it's optional but give a maximum size. Councilmember Rousseau is for cutting it. When there are guidelines or other communications, we could say that's best practice. Mayor Grant said there are three of the five members in favor of cutting the run language out. He wanted to discuss temperature. Councilmember Holden agrees it is hard to monitor but a lot of people aren't going to read all of this. They're just going to go get chickens. If they won't build a fence, they aren't going to insulate the coop. She thinks we need to at least require a bulb in the coop. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 17 Councilmember Weber agrees with that. He thinks attempting to regulate temperature is a slippery slope. Mayor Grant said having a bulb will provide a little warmth. Having extra chickens will help, too. He asked to discuss screening. Councilmember Monson feels the current language is so prohibitive that you can't have chickens unless you have a 6' privacy fence. Mayor Grant asked if she was advocating for unfenced chickens. Councilmember Monson said there is a difference between fencing the coop and creating a visual screen from the neighbor. Her discussions with residents have been that if you don't already have a fenced yard, that isn't chain link, you are spending thousands of dollars to block the view of chickens. Mayor Grant said without the 174 square foot per bird exercise yard, that helps. Councilmember Weber said in regards to unfenced yards, the run is required to be fully fenced, including the top. He agrees that the current language is cost prohibitive to keep six chickens. Councilmember Holden said it matters where the coop will be on the property. If its in her side yard but 300 feet from the neighbor who had the chickens, she would not want to look at that. She would want a screen. There are a lot of unique neighborhoods. We should discuss setbacks. This needs to address the residents who don't want chickens, as well. Councilmember Rousseau said for the screening she wants to talk about number 4. She wondered if we want to keep all of it, or none of it. She asked if the setbacks will align with the zoning code revisions. Councilmember Monson said page 7 says 200 feet or more, from any lot line. Councilmember Rousseau said that is for farm animals. It states "except for chicken coops". City Administrator Jagoe said the coop is section 2 and A-H. Setbacks are discussed in C, D and E. Councilmember Monson asked what the setback is for an accessory structure. City Administrator Jagoe said they are 10 feet on the side and the rear. When you look at E, you have to look at where you are placing that coop. Including the pen and exercise yard, in relation to the principal dwelling so the outer back of it isn't closer to your neighbor's property than it is to your own. The setback is based off the existing development on your property, adjacent to you and where you place the coop. It has to be configured in a way that it is closer to your house than your neighbor's. Councilmember Holden is not in favor of taking out 2E, subdivision 6. It says the coop has to be closer to your house than to your neighbor's house. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 18 Councilmember Rousseau is still in favor of getting rid of that. We're talking like five feet difference. We already have setbacks and rules for accessory dwellings. She doesn't think it's unreasonable unless you have a house that has gone far beyond the setback and built it on the property line. Mayor Grant thinks the language stating the coop has to be closer to your house than your neighbor's is good. Councilmember Weber thinks it's good but he doesn't think there are very many lots that would be deeply impacted by that one. He agrees E should come out and the issue is handled by the setbacks. Twenty feet from the property line is sufficient. Councilmember Holden thinks we will run into issues. There will be residents who don't want the chickens closer to them. If you are going to have chickens and you'll have to run out there when it's 40 degrees below zero. Why wouldn't you want it closer to your house, anyway? Councilmember Weber said the distance they need to walk is a factor the chicken owner can consider. Regardless, it's their property and they are following setback rules. These exceptions added in, are unique to Arden Hills code. You don't see this in the surrounding cities. Every other city has a much more reasonable setback requirement. Having that language in there limits who can have chickens even further. Councilmember Holden said that is wonderful for all the other cities. We are talking about our city. We had a significant statistical survey done. Fifty percent of respondents wanted chickens and 50% didn't. An accessory structure is a standalone structure. You go out there a couple times. It doesn't smell. When the coop is cleaned, you get to dump the stuff in the yard next to the neighbor's house. She thinks E needs to stay. She thinks it will cause problems between neighbors if we don't have it in there. Mayor Grant said as much as we want to advocate for chickens, he realizes that the people next to you may not want the coop too close. If a chicken gets loose and the neighbor has a dog, that's just what happens. He likes that the run is enclosed. He likes 2E to remain in there or we have to expand the setbacks. We have to consider the impact to the other neighbors. Councilmember Monson said she is looking at ariel images of the City. The only places that would have a problem with E would be a corner lot. If they go to the back of their corner lot, that helps. It could be closer to the neighbor's than to the principal structure. She wasn't sure how that would work since it needs to be in a rear yard. City Administrator Jagoe said if two houses, back to back built their homes at the 30 foot setback they could not have a chicken coop. They can't put a new structure in their back yard and have that outer back edge of it be closer to their house. They don't have any depth to allow a coop. She put together several illustrations when we did this exhibit before. She will share that with the Council. Councilmember Monson asked if City Administrator Jagoe thinks it would affect very many residents. It shouldn't be a big deal if you put it in the right spot and your being polite. But if someone just dumps it on the edge of the lawn it could cause problems. She just doesn't know if it matters, functionally. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 19 Councilmember Holden thinks that is why this is in there in the first place. It was based on City Administrator Jagoe's data. It came about because of the split between the residents who want chickens and the ones who adamantly don't. Councilmember Rousseau said that is why she thinks we should require neighbor consent. Part of that conversation may be that they want to put it right up to the property and then the neighbor has the option to say no. It would be a face to face conversation with the neighbor. Councilmember Monson said if the neighbor has to approve, anyway, that's not really needed. Councilmember Holden said that is a wonderful point. You go to your neighbor and say you want to have chickens and the neighbor can say no way. Councilmember Rousseau said there was a neighbor who wanted chickens in St. Paul but the neighbor said no. They had dogs and having chickens next door will make them bark all the time. Councilmember Weber said the opposite could also be true. If you have an enormous back yard and you want to tuck it up next to the house, the neighbor can still say no. Councilmember Rousseau said it's something that people need to get used to. Mayor Grant said he would suggest having City Administrator Jagoe share the diagrams from before along with the rationale and then regroup at another work session to discuss further. Councilmember Rousseau asked if we will meet again in several months. Councilmember Weber said he believes Council has brought up all of their talking points. He thinks Staff could put a table together and Council can thumbs up or thumbs down and finish it up. We've had the discussion. He thinks we just need to get a vote. Mayor Grant agrees we need to put a list together. He thinks we need another meeting. He asked if Council would want to meet for a Special Work Session on June 30, 2025. Council agreed but Councilmember Holden said she didn't think she could make it. Mayor Grant asked if Councilmember Holden could attend remotely. Discussion ensued regarding the new remote attendance statutes. Mayor Grant said Staff will put everything together and if Councilmember Holden could attend remotely, that would be good. F. Agenda Planning Mayor Grant looked at the list of outstanding items to discuss. He said some of them have resolved themselves. He thinks some of them may have been important when they were added to the list and he thinks Council should validate some of them. He said there is a trail prioritization of Lake Johanna Blvd vs. Old Highway 10. Old Highway 10 is being done in 2026. That one solved itself. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 20 Councilmember Monson said she still wants to have a conversation regarding funding on Lake Johanna Blvd Trail. Mayor Grant said that is a different item. Councilmember Monson agrees. She wants to have some preemptive thinking. Do we raise revenue to support it? Mayor Grant thought that could happen during strategic planning. He asked about MNTWC. He said you have to have enough acreage to do it. So it would either have to go in TCAAP. If we aren't willing to do that, there's no other place to put it. Councilmember Weber asked who said we weren't willing to do that? Mayor Grant said that is the question he is tossing out. Councilmember Monson said they came to Council. The question is do we want to have a tournament facility within the City. If yes, we need to talk about it, get the other players in, do Joint Development and do surveys. Do we want to get that ball rolling? Councilmember Rousseau thought they were going to come back and provide some financial information. She's fine with taking it off the list for now. However, if they come back, she wants Council to be willing to hear them out. Councilmember Holden remembers Council directed that group to go to the JDA to discuss it because we don't have any room. If the County decides they don't want to use their land for something like that, then it's a dead deal. Councilmember Monson said the JDA said it's here for City discussion. We would have to zone for it, if we want it. She doesn't know why the JDA would say no if everything aligned. The JDA said that's a zoning question. If you want it we can decide how to manage it. This is not a pressing issue. If it comes back to life we can discuss it. She doesn't think there needs to be any more time spend discussing it, at this time. Mayor Grant said it would have to go through the County, too. If they don't want to sell land for a tournament center, it's done. Councilmember Weber said the developer could also have that conversation. Councilmember Holden said the cost would be astronomical to the City. Council agreed to remove the item from the list. Mayor Grant asked if the EDA Membership Discussion resolve itself? We want to have an EDA. It's currently the council. It's a lot of financial decisions. We are required to meet one time per year. We have been meeting that statutory requirement. Councilmember Rousseau would like to have that discussion. It's been about a year since the last time the EDA met. She sees other EDAs that have members of the community involved. They ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 21 are livelier than our EDA. There are opportunities to talk about that as well as the money that is supposed to go towards the EDA that we put towards regular Staff funding by paying their salaries. Councilmember Holden asked if we should be getting feedback from the EDC for the EDA. She thinks it's repetitive. Mayor Grant said there are other items that he thinks may resolve themselves. Councilmember Monson said port-o-potties did. The ADA compliant port-o-potties are just built into any park improvement now. Mayor Grant said there are a number of items that would be better suited for discussion when the Community Development Director is hired. That position will be posted this week. The volunteer recognition item has to go to Personnel first. We have talked a little about ducks and chickens. Councilmember Holden thought the Buy Nothing/Clean Up Day was resolved. We were going to do it. Discussion ensued regarding if the Buy Nothing/Clean Up Day was resolved. Mayor Grant said that falls under Administration. He thought maybe they could put something together and provide some options. Councilmember Weber said Accessory Dwelling Units and Cannabis discussion have been mentioned for future work session topics but are not on the list. Funding of Lake Johanna Trail should be on there, as well. Councilmember Holden said it would help if we knew what the County was going to do. Mayor Grant mentioned Garbage Collection (Mounds View Presentation). He said that is a big item to tackle. Councilmember Monson said Councilmember Holden has previously said it might be good to wait until we have to do another RFP for recycling, that may be a good time to discuss garbage collection. TCAAP will be single hauler. At some point, it would make sense for the entire City to be single hauler. Councilmember Holden thinks the item can be removed from the list until there is an appetite. Right now we're building the roads and they meet the qualifications for the garbage hauler. Most of our roads are less than ten years old. Councilmember Rousseau asked if that is a topic for the strategic planning sessions. Mayor Grant thought it could go into the strategic planning arena. He said it can stay on the list but maybe it isn't a time sensitive issue. Councilmember Holden asked what the Door -to -Door Group Affiliation item was. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 22 Councilmember Monson said she thinks there was some concern about people handing out information that appeared to be affiliated with the City but the were not actually a City funded group. Councilmember Rousseau is okay with getting rid of those two. In that example it was established that the group was not using City logos. Councilmember Holden said the Door -to -Door Group Affiliation and Door -to -Door Solicitations can be removed. Council agreed. Councilmember Holden said Proclamation Policy can be removed. We have a rule that stated we won't do anything except City proclamations. Discussion ensued that this item doesn't seem to be an issue and it can be removed from the list. Mayor Grant said he would have left it on but there is consensus to remove it. Councilmember Holden thought the Building Material item was part of the Ryan or the HKGi Zoning Update. City Administrator Jagoe said those will be reviewed as part of the requirements for the B-2 and B-3 Districts. Council agreed to remove the item. City Administrator Jagoe thinks the community survey discussion will come out of strategic planning. There was a question on whether we wanted to do another community survey and what it would look like. Is it a phone survey? Is it Survey Monkey? Is it residents or businesses or both? What would the questions be? Councilmember Holden said other cities do this but they use the same vendor every time so they have an accurate picture from one survey to the next. Councilmember Weber asked what the survey would be about. Discussion ensued regarding community survey questions. Councilmember Monson said over time it can be valuable but it can be very complex. Councilmember Holden said it's very expensive, too. Councilmember Rousseau is in favor of it. Councilmember Weber doesn't see too much value in that. He understands there is long-term value but it's a big undertaking. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 23 Mayor Grant said it is a longitudinal commitment if you want the data to tell you something. Otherwise it's just a snapshot in time. Councilmember Monson said maybe it should stay on the list. When we get into strategy we may find focus on community engagement is something we want to do. Maybe a community survey could be a part of that first level of engagement. Councilmember Weber said the activity of going through this list may be better during strategic planning. They may be able to mediate it better. Mayor Grant agreed. He said this is where some of the strategic planning ideas got placed. There's no need to re -rank them right now. Some of the items will take a long time to even kick off. He will work with Staff to see if there is a small policy or some research that can be done prior to the June 30 Special Work Session and get a couple of these knocked off the list. Councilmember Monson asked if we are getting more information from RCSO on the Flock Cameras. City Administrator Jagoe has put a request out to them and as of the last Contract Cities meeting they were still putting information together. They had just received the contract and they were putting together some responses to the other questions. Councilmember Holden said there was a question regarding ICE going after that data. City Administrator Jagoe said at the last meeting Undersheriff Ramacher mentioned that the question has come up and he confirmed ICE would not have access. It would be limited to only Minnesota law enforcement agencies. She told him that would be a good policy to share when they come back with their responses. They did mention that in order to have access to the information that Flock collects, an agency has to request it from the law enforcement agency. They could not say if other agencies have granted access to the camera information. They said RCSO will not give that access. Councilmember Holden said there was a good article in the Vadnais Press about Flock. The Vadnais Heights council approved it. They had a lot of the same questions we had. Mayor Grant asked Staff to include that in the Friday update. Councilmember Rousseau asked which topics will be on the July 14 work session. City Administrator Jagoe said that will be the CIP discussion. She will talk to Finance Director Yang to determine how much time she will need. Mayor Grant said that discussion typically takes a long time. He would rather have an extra item on the agenda that we may or may not get to, rather than not having anything else on there. Councilmember Holden said usually work sessions are scheduled at 5:00 pm in the summer. She asked if that happens. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JUNE 9, 2025 24 Council agreed to have work sessions start at 5:00 pm through the summer months, making them all special work sessions due to the time change. G. Rice Creek Commons/TCAAP Discussion This item was not discussed. 4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES None. ADJOURN Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Work Session at 9:02 p.m. Z 0 A 4J,22 David Grant Mayor