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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-11-25-SWS City of Arden Hills ▪1245 West Highway 96 ▪ Arden Hills Minnesota 55112 Phone 651.792.7800 ▪ Fax 651.634.5137 ▪ www.cityofardenhills.org Request for Special City Council Work Session A special meeting may be called by the Mayor or by any two Councilmembers. Reason for meeting: 1. Public Inquiries/Informational 2. Response to Public Inquiries 3. Agenda Items A. Concept Plan Review – 3737 Lexington Avenue and 1133 Grey Fox Road B. Zoning Code Update Discussion C. Conduit Bond Debt Financing Discussion D. State of the City Update E. Ducks Discussion F. Proposed Public Works Organizational Chart – Phase 2 G. Agenda Planning 4. Council/Staff Comments Adjourn Requested Date: 08/11/2025 Requested time: 5:00 pm Open meeting X Closed meeting Signature of person(s) making request: 08/07/2025 Mayor or Council Member Date / / Council Member Date -This section to be completed by City staff- Date received: 08/07/2025 Date meeting to be held: 08/11/2025 Time of meeting: 5:00 pm Location: City Hall All necessary postings and notices have been completed. 08/07/2025 Signature of City Clerk Date -ARery,HrLS Approved: September 8, 2025 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION AUGUST 11,2025 5:OO P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Grant called to order the Special City Council Work Session meeting at 5:00 p.m. Present: Mayor David Grant; Councilmembers Brenda Holden, Tena Monson, Emily Rousseau and Kurt Weber Absent: None Also present: City Administrator Jessica Jagoe; Public Works Director/City Engineer David Swearingen; Finance Director Joua Yang, Senior Planner Elena Fransen and Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL None. 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None. 3. AGENDA ITEMS A. Concept Plan Revierv -3737 Lexington Avenue/1133 Grey Fox Road Michael Kuntz, Architect with September Son Architecture and Vishal Dutt, Applicant for the Concept Plan introduced themselves. Senior Planner Fransen introduced the concept review for a multi-family housing development at the Pace Site. She shared the site plans that were provided to show an initial view of the proposed development on this site. Staff provided some initial review on the proposed parking and unit mix and density. She said the applicant is looking for feedback from the Council to gauge interest and work towards refining their concept review and bring something back that outlines the project in further detail. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COL]NCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST II,2O25 Vishal Dutt introduced himself. He would love to do a project in Arden Hills. He introduced his Architect, Michael Kunz to share the vision for the site. Michael Kunz provided his professional background. He is familiar with the area and he understands this is a prime site to build a multi-family housing development. This would be a nice development and would compete with the new units in Shoreview. It has a lot of density. Parking is interior, for the most part. There are 169 parking spaces for 105 units. This would be a three- story building. Vishal Dutt shared where he recently completed similar projects and encouraged Council to look up his project list. The amenities include fitness room, work from home space, lounge and club room. It is a work, live and play concept. These types of projects do well. He asked if Council had any feedback for him on this concept. City Administrator Jagoe said this is a preliminary concept review. They would still need to bring forward architectural renderings and go through the full concept review. There are zoning code changes and comprehensive plan amendments required for this project to move forward. There may be other flexibilities needed on landscaping, site build out and architectural building standards. She asked Senior Planner Fransen to discuss the zoning code and comprehensive plan changes that would need to happen before the project can be advanced for a full concept review. Senior Planner Fransen said an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan would be required for this project. This site is not guided for multi-family dwellings. The Comprehensive Plan would need to be updated to allow residential use on this site. Density would need to be established for that guiding, potentially increasing the density that is allowed. There could also be requests for flexibility for the floor area ratios that are currently referenced in the Comprehensive Plan. This site is in the B-3 Zoning district which does not allow for multi-family residential use so a zoning code would need to be amended to allow for that and a Conditional Use Permit (CUP) may be required for multi-family dwelling use, which is a requirement for other zoning districts where multi-family dwelling uses are allowed. Councilmember Rousseau thanked the presenters for their interest in the Pace Site. She sees that site daily and knows something better can be built there. She loves the idea of putting housing in this location. This Council has expressed an interest in reviewing the ordinance for affordable housing, as a requirement. She wondered if that is something that would be included on this site. She asked what demographic the presenter would expect. There have been a lot of 55+ housing. Her friend who is in her 70s said she wouldn't want to be segregated like that. Vishal Dutt said the concept would be market rate apartments. The tenants are mostly singles who are just getting out of college and twenty-somethings. There are families and older individuals, as well. But the demographic is going to be 25-60. There is a mix of floor plans. There are studios, l-bedroom, 2-bedroom and 3-bedroom units. Pets are allowed. These wouldn't be restricted to 55+. Councilmember Rousseau asked if they have considered an open space where there are individual rooms where they share a common space. Maybe three singles move in together, sharing one space. Vishal Dutt said they could get a 3-bedroom unit. He thinks she is talking about student housing. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COI-INCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2O25 Councilmember Rousseau said it could be young professionals, too. Vishal Dutt asked for clarification if she was saying each bedroom would have its own rent with a common area? Councilmember Rousseau confirmed. They each have a separate lease. Vishal Dutt said that is a student housing concept. He said they could look at it. Councilmember Rousseau asked if there is any reason he wouldn't consider retail on the first floor. Vishal Dutt said he has looked at that in other cities for other projects and right now vertical retail with housing on top does not work. Those retail locations tend to stay vacant forever. What he has seen work, is if there is enough land, a horizontal use where there is an apartment complex and then there is a separate retail space on the same pad, but separate from the housing structure. He is doing that in Oakdale right now. There is not enough land on this site to do that. If he were to hear from Council that it is a requirement, he would have to ask for financial assistance. Councilmember Holden asked if he has done Phase l. She said the site has some pollution and wonders if they have a plan to remediate it to residential standards. Vishal Dutt said he has talked to the land owner but doesn't have a plan yet. He wanted to come to Council and present this preliminary concept. He wanted to gauge Council's appetite for this project before spending money and time creating that plan. Councilmember Holden is not interested in giving up any commercial space for apartments. There are a few big commercial properties in Arden Hills and they are our bread and butter. She wouldn't want to see commercial property go towards residential. She asked where is the park land? Where will kids ride their bikes? This is being sold as a possible family-friendly development, with the 3-bedroom units. We will have kids playing right on Lexington. The only way to get to a park would be over the railroad bridge. She asked about the materials. She thinks it looks like all EIFS. Vishal Duff said materials have not been discussed yet. Michael Kuntz said they are just defining the site to see what may fit here. He said the site is packed with building and parking, right now. This site only works if it is around 100 units. While staying in compliance with the city ordinance to remain at 3-stories, the site is packed. If they were allowed to go up one more story there would be more land to work with and a play structure could be included. Councilmember Monson heard him say that retail on the first floor is tough, economically. She asked if that is a density issue. Do they need more housing to make that model work? Vishal Dutt confirmed. You need more land area and more housing. It would take away from the unit count. Retail market trends are that businesses want their own building rather than being a part of an apartment complex. It's harder to get done and the space may stay vacant much longer. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COI.INCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST II,2025 4 Councilmember Monson said if three stories with retail on the bottom will not work, would four stories with retail work? Vishal Duff said it could work. Councilmember Monson said they need three stories of living space in order for this to work. Vishal Dutt said he would have to hold that space in his proforma for two years. It may not be two years, but that is what the market will be. Councilmember Monson said she would like to see affordable housing included. She doesn't know what that would look like or if there are questions for the City through Tax Increment Financing (TIF). That's important for her. Vishal Dutt would like to know how affordable housing is defined for Arden Hills. He said every city is different. Councilmember Monson said there is currently no policy. That is on the list of things to define. She is asking for 600/o. Vishal Dutt asked for clarification that she is saying 60Yo Area Median Income (AMD. Councilmember Monson confirmed. Vishal Dutt said, for example, let's say this project is 100 units. What percent of the units would need to be at the 60oh A}i4I? Councilmember Monson isn't sure. Whatever we do needs to be meaningful but she understands it needs to be economical for the developer. That is where Council would rely on City Staff to present options. She said she has been to a couple of multi-family homes that have nice rooftop amenities including playground structures. She wondered if he has done anything like that. Vishal Dutt has done a lounge area, but never a playground. He has created rooftop lounges that include grills, TVs and a Club Room. Councilmember Monson asked what kind of sustainability efforts might be included in this, or what has he done at other locations. Micheal Kuntz said stormwater has to meet the watershed requirements. That's locked in. They would be using materials with 30-year warranties on them, to include masonry and metal panel on this building. They would use Energy Star appliances. They are showing a courtyard on the second floor, covering the parking. They could do an intensive green roof there. There is considerable roof space where they could include Electric Distribution (ED) Panels. Councilmember Monson said Rice Creek Commons has some very clear guidelines of how to go all electric. She was just curious about how they may work toward sustainability goals. She said this area is identified as Business Corridor. The B-2 mixed use is south of the railroad tracks. It is proposed for large and small dwelling units as permitted with standards. She asked Staff if multi-family would be allowed in B-3 and B-4. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST II,2O25 City Administrator Jagoe doesn't believe that is part of the zoning ordinance review updates but she would have to double check. Councilmember Monson said she would be open to the right project here. It's hard to lose commercial space. We've had two or three other applications that have tried to come into this spot in the last few years. We are trying to find a use for this land. This is the first concept that has been proposed to include housing. Mayor Grant agrees it is hard to give up that commercial space right in the middle of a commercial district. It doesn't have any parks and there are no amenities other than a sidewalk on Lexington Avenue. He doesn't support residential there. This is a commercial district and he thinks it needs to remain commercial. Councilmember Weber said the affordability aspect is important for him. It's a necessity. He believes this would be the densest building in Arden Hills by double. He would need to see at least l0-units of affordable units on any 100 unit multi-family development. He agrees with others that this is a commercial area and he doesn't support residential on this site. There is nowhere to play. Councilmember Rousseau disagrees with that. She thinks this would be a great spot for residential. New residents are going to visit and spend money and possibly work at those nearby businesses. She thinks the best case scenario would be retail at the bottom. She understands that may mean a fourth level on the building and she would expect affordable housing to be included. Vishal Dutt summaized that he is hearing three no's, one yes and one maybe. It doesn't make sense to move any further on this concept. Mayor Grant thinks that is a fal.r characteization of the discussion. Vishal Dutt thanked the Council for their time. B. Zoning Code Update Discussion Jason Zimmerman and Rita Trapp, consultants from HKGi were present. Jason Zimmerman said this is a logical check point on the Zoning Code project. There have been three discussions with the Planning Commission and they have received feedback from thern. That feedback has been passed on to Council. This is useful spot to answer any questions and clarit/ any of the proposed changes before presenting draft text. There are three areas for discussion. The first topic is the comments and course corrections discussed with the Planning Commission. The second topic will be answering questions regarding specific uses and definitions. They tried to include a lot of that in the memo, but they are happy to discuss specifics on any of those uses and definitions. The third topic is they are at a point where we could do additional community engagement. They could work with Staff to create webpage asking residents to weigh in and see what residents and businesses are concerned about. That is the least pressing topic, compared to the other two. Councilmember Holden said it was a big red flag for her to just allow Staff to approve a Planned Unit Development (PUD). She said that is when the City is allowed to get something above and ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST TI,2O25 beyond, from the developer. If we allow applicants to just go through the process and let Staff make decisions we won't get a sidewalk or playground like we got from the Senior Center. We won't get extra land that can be made into the park. That is the opportunity for the City Council, who represents the community, to get what we need, in addition to the PUD. Jason Zimmerman said that characteization is not how it was intended. The only suggestion is after a PUD has been approved and there are minor amendments that need to be made, that is when Staff would have control. A PUD would be a full public hearing process before Planning Commission and City Council for both the preliminary and final PUD. That is when the "above and beyond" items Council wants to include would be during that process. Councilmember Holden said that the first paragraph on page 3 is misleading. City Administrator Jagoe said the consultants did a great job of presenting at the Planning Commission that through the PUD we may be able to add language in the ordinance that says what the flexibilities that Staff may seek, may be. The ordinance can be clearer to developers about what we'll be looking for. Councilmember Holden wouldn't want it listed because you never know until you see each individual concept plan. Councilmember Rousseau read that paragraph as some minor changes may be approved administratively. Jason Zimmerman pointed out a handout that include examples of the kinds of public benefit. They can be specific, but it can also be open ended. We want developers to understand what our priorities are. If affordable housing is important, we should put it on the list. If we want sustainable development, that should be outlined and it can help guide developers as they prepare their proposals. It doesn't have to be a definitive list. It's more a guide to developers to prepare a proposal that will be what is right for the City. That is the broader beauty of what the public benefit discussion is about. Councilmember Weber agrees with the idea of listing what the City is looking for, generally in PUDs. That doesn't limit us to just that list, it just gives applicants a better idea of what the City is looking for before they come in. He thought we can identiff what the PUD amendments, that could be approved by Staff, might be. Jason Zimmerman said they have done that with other cities. The list may include changing the landscaping plan that still meets what the zoning typically requires but is different than what was in the approved PUD. Another example is they want to change the parking lot layout, but not change the count ofparking spaces. Councilmember Weber said it isn't adding a variance or anything. It will all be within the scope of the existing zoning code. For example, if someone wanted to place directional signs on a business complex. Rita Trapp said she once had to amend a PUD because someone wanted to change a patio door to windows. Because of the way the original PUD was written, any building change required a ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COLINCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST II,2O25 public hearing in order to amend it. They are trying to identifu what are the changes that are straightforward and don't change the intent. Mayor Grant said maybe someone wanted Honey locust but the developer wanted a Silver Maple. Rita Trapp said one of the things they are seeing on landscaping plans is that they are unable to get the approved tree species. Councilmember Holden said that's fine to put it in writing. She said we have always included 'trp to the discretion of Staff in a lot of our contracts. City Administrator Jagoe said typically with a PUD the first condition says if staff deems it a minor change it is allowed subject to staff approval. Rita Trapp said if someone wants to come in five years later and change something they would have to go back. In her example it was many years later. Little changes, like that, would be a lot easier for folks rather than having to go through the whole approval process. Council will see the list of items that staff can approve and decide if anything should be added or taken off that list. Councilmember Weber asked if there are any items they want to touch on. He doesn't think Council comments were captured regarding Data Centers. He knows there was a mixed response at the Planning Commission review and as well as from Council. Jason Zimmerman said that is a hot topic in a lot of cities right now. Cities are understandably interested in them while also wary of the impacts they may have. One of the things that has been discussed is going to those communities that have allowed them and asking what issues they have had and what standards and regulations they have built in. They are not job generators but they are tax base generators. This is a newer topic and multiple cities are asking for guidance on this. Councilmember Weber would like to see how energy and water intensive are they. Not just what standards have been built in. He wants to learn how much more water they are using than a typical commercial business. Is the resource consumption significantly more than any other business? Rita Trapp said that is a topic that could explode. There are so many unknowns. They could probably provide base level language to put in the code and then come back to it. This is important but doing that level of work on a topic that people are not very experienced with would probably be outside of the scope of the zoning review they agreed to. Data centers are not a topic that was even on our radar. Councilmember Weber thinks that should be more defined beforehand. He has no clue how much water they use. If everything is being liquid cooled, what would the impact on our infrastructure be? He would prefer to see those answers before we make a decision, unless the decision is to simply not allow them. Will it have a detrimental impact on the water service to Lexington Avenue? Councilmember Monson said data centers come in all shapes and sizes. The ones you hear about are the hyperscalers where they take over massive amounts of property. Those are the ones that ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COLINCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST 1,1,2025 we would want to have a handle on. You don't even know the smaller ones are there. Shoreview has one just north of TCAAP. They have a number of different ways to cool. Many of them don't cool with water anymore. Data centers continue to grow and they continue to change. At this point she believes we should leave it as a prohibited use until one tries to come in. We can tackle it better at that time. We can ask what it is. How they will cool? How much sound will they create? How many jobs will it create? How big will it be? Mayor Grant said we should just remain silent on it. The jury is still out on these. Rita Trapp said it will still appear in the use table but it won't be allowed. Mayor Grant said he doesn't disallow it and you don't put it in the use table. They definitely come in all shapes and sizes. He thinks it will be an important element for a number of companies in the next 10-15 years. To rule it out, at this point, is equivalent to not allowing vehicles because horses were around. Technology is coming and it's coming really fast. Councilmember Holden said we need to be careful about how we talk about it. There are already some institutions within our City that have small data centers. Councilmember Monson said then the discussion is if it's a primary use vs. an accessory use. Councilmember Holden said the bottom line is Land O Lakes has a lot of land. If they want to build an accessory structure to house one, what are we going to say? Councilmember Monson said generally everything she has read is the right direction for her. Said there may be a solution for Home Occupations by putting in standards. She asked the consultant to walk through that. Jason Zimmerman said every city handles these in different ways. Some where none of them rise to the level of having to go to Planning Commission or Council but they outline guidelines and regulations, within certain limits. Other cities allow lower level ones to be approved administratively. There may be more regulation depending on business type, number of visitors, employees or hours. Those categories can have a little more oversight. There was a case where a piano teacher had to go through a long process to allow his students to come during the day. It would be helpful to have the standards written to avoid that long, drawn-out process. It comes back to what the City's primary concems are and can you capture regulations and standards to address those, without having to have a full public hearing process. Typical regulations for Home Occupations are traffic, noise and advertising. There are other specific uses that can be prohibited. Councilmember Monson wants Home Occupation to be as friendly and easy as possible to start their own business. She would like to see it permitted use within whatever parameters Council decides on. We might want one list that explicitly prohibits certain things. It's important to foster starting a business from home. She would like to see affordable housing regulations in the ordinance. During the strategic planning process a list of policies was created. She understands some of those topics are going to be bigger discussions but she wants to see affordable housing in the ordinance. Councilmember Rousseau said she's fine with data centers being called it out to show it's not allowed at this time. She would like to see an option for Staff to escalate to the next level on home ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COTINCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST II,2O25 occupancy if we haven't listed everything. She thinks the affordable housing component should be addressed, as well. She is pleased with what she has seen so far. Councilmember Holden said one of the issues with home occupancy is odors. People were doing perms in their homes and neighbors can smell it. Waste is another issue. People doing car repairs and small engine repairs. She isn't sure what Council wants to do. Some of these, like the piano teacher, is an easy one. There are other businesses that are not good for neighborhoods. Jason Zimmerman is hearing the primary concerns are around traffic, odors, hours of operation, waste and advertising. They can come back with language to address those concerns. Councilmember Holden asked what the difference is between a twin house and a townhome. Jason Zimmerman said there is some overlap there. Twin homes are two units on two separate lots. Townhomes can be two-five or larger clusters. There is not much difference between a twin home and a two-unit townhome development. Rita Trapp said the reason there are two definitions is that in some districts maybe Council is only comfortable allowing a single or two-unit but not allowing townhomes which could have higher density. Councilmember Holden would rather have affordable housing be a policy vs. including it in the zoning code. If it's in the zoning, we don't have as much play as we could, with it. Through a PUD we can play a lot more. If it's in zoning, that's what they're bringing in and we're done. Mayor Grant isn't aware of a zoning component that says affordable housing. There isn't high rent zoning and affordable zoning. That would get tossed out really quickly. He isn't sure what is being proposed for that. ADUs have been brought up. Those are all different, too. Having an extra unit in the back yard vs. adding on to an existing house is a different concept. He is not onboard with a tiny house being allowed to be placed in a front or back yard. He doesn't think the residents of Arden Hills will appreciate the view out of their window. He is not a huge fan of affordability. It has its place but you can also go too far. Discussion ensued regarding how Shoreview addresses affordable housing. Mayor Grant said Land O Lakes and Boston Scientific probably have some data center-like element. The memo states the Planning Commission and City Council recommend this use be added to the principal use table. If there is a huge impact from a data center, it's not desirable. However, we can't completely turn our back on this technology right now. He suggested data centers could be allowed if it services a company vs. one that services the web or ChatGPT. We can put boundaries in there. He agrees the earlier comment to use the PUD process to get better building materials. As a Council we want the very best thing to go in there. If the consultants have a better or different way he is open to hearing it. Councilmember Weber said when addressing affordable housing in the zoning code we are talking about creating a list of items to ask for, in return for variances that are requested in PUDs. The other way to address it is through policy. He supports both. This was highlighted in his first meeting as a Councilmember. We tried to ask for affordability in return for additional density at North Heights Church. We couldn't do so because it isn't in the code. He would like to see a list ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COLTNCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST 11,2025 10 of items that we might ask for, in return. Not limited to that list but making it clear to applicants that these are the items we may ask for. Affordability, trails, building materials and so forth. Then developers can have an idea of what we will ask for when they apply. He thinks we reached a consensus on data centers. We are going to leave it off the use table. Councilmember Rousseau said either leave it off or explicitly put it on there without anything. Rita Trapp said she will have to figure out what the right thing is. Councilmember Weber is curious about why the consultant would have to talk to an attorney about that. Rita Trapp said typically any use not listed in the table is prohibited. With sensitivity of data centers she wants to make sure that is enough. If the use doesn't show up, it's not allowed and they would have to come in and request a zoning amendment. She just wants to be sensitive to where things are legally with data center. There are a lot of lawsuits flying around. Councilmember Weber said there are things that aren't in the zoning code that we can say no to tomorrow. If data centers isn't there and there is some loophole that would allow data center applicants to just do it anyway, that's uazy and what's the point of zoning. Rita Trapp said it is about protecting the City so we don't end up in a court case because of something that we omitted that should have addressed. It's protecting the City. Councilmember Weber said regardless how we do it, he does not want data center to be an allowed use. Rita Trapp said that is clear. They want to find out the safest method to protect the City. Councilmember Monson asked if the Council intended to cap the whole city at 35 for building height. She thinks E Street Flats is taller than 35. There are some housing types that may want to be higher than 35 feet. Councilmember Weber said that would be achieved through the PUD process. Jason Zimmerman said 35 is the maximum. If an applicant wanted to go higher it could be a PUD or Conditional Use Permit (CUP). There are ways to go higher but it would have to go through Council. Councilmember Monson would advocate for a higher maximum but if the rest of Council is okay with this she's in the minority. Councilmember Holden thinks having affordable housing in the zoning on a list in the PUD section is totally different than listing it in the zoning. She was upset that there were negative comments back and forth when Mayor Grant was discussing his list. That isn't appreciated. The side bars don't work for her when we're all supposed to be working together. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COI.INCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2O25 Councilmember Weber thinks two Councilmembers have the right to talk to each other if they want to. It wasn't intended to be something for the table. We aren't talking about ADUs. That's not a topic ws are discussing today. Councilmember Holden asked for confirmation that we can't say ADUs because it's not in the packet. So she can yell across the room to him while another Councilmember is talking because she wants to. Councilmember Rousseau said she was just trying to find where it is, in the packet. Mayor Grant said we have consultants hpre who are working on our zoning code. It was brought up earlier so he touched on it. Councilmember Holden said one of the things talked about was lighting. There is other lighting to consider, other than signage. She didn't see that addressed anywhere. Jason Zimmerman said some of the comments to come out of the Planning Commission were concems about light spill-over and the impact on neighboring properties. Shielding and down- casting lighting is something the Planning Commission was interested in. He understands there may be cases where LED lighting are not well captured in current code. They want to make sure the lighting definitions that are used allow the City to regulate some things that have been nuisances. Those were the two main points that came from the Planning Commission. Councilmember Holden said one of the big ones was the blue lighting on the Holiday. City Administrator Jagoe said one of the conversations is the tube lighting. Is it signage or lighting? Councilmember Weber said we don't have it in our City but the signage lighting at some tobacco stores is a pretty good example of what he would not want to see allowed. Jason Zimmerman said they have some draft questions to put out to the community. We aren't ready to launch it yet. The webpage will be updated to outline the process. The public will have the chance to weigh in. There are questions about lighting, signage, landscaping and other things people may have an opinion on. Usually people don't focus on zoning districts and the nuance of set backs and things, but they usually interested in things they will see when they are driving through town. Councilmemtrer Weber said he saw it. It is helpful to wrap your head around what we're doing here and could help with some of the unanswered questions. He asked what the timeframe is for launching that. Jason Zimmerman said they have had contact with Senior Communications Coordinator Michlig. She is working on setting up the web page. By the time the newsletter comes out it should be ready and residents can click on the link and start using it. Councilmember Holden said handicap parking is like two spots. There are people who would like to go to the Tavern but there aren't enough parking spots. She would like to see us add handicap parking regulations that are above and beyond what the state law is. 11 ARDEN HTLLS SPECIAL CITY COTINCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST 71,2025 Jason Zimmerman said ADA requirements is one of the things that have to be met. There may be ways to encourage or request more. Rita Trapp said there is a rule that says can't ask for things that are above and beyond the State Building Code. Since ADA is in the building code, they are hesitant to say you can add to it. Councilmember Monson wondered if there is a way to require parking spots for veterans, pregnant women and small children. Councilmember Weber supports additional handicap spots. His take is that you are allowed to be more restrictive than state law when deciding what building materials are allowed. He thinks it means restricting rights. He can't think of an example. Rita Trapp said an example she's seen lately is Electric Vehicle (EV) charging. It used to be cities would require EV chargers inside the building. It was determined that we couldn't do that because it was not part of the State Building Code. There have been examples of where you wouldn't think the building code and zoning are related, but they were. You can require EV chargers, but you can't require them to be inside a building. Mayor Grant said we are allowed to be more restrictive than State Statute but can't be more permissive than State Statute otherwise we'd be in violation. We can't be more permissive with zoning than what the building code allows. Councilmember Holden asked how the consultants are going to recommend anything regarding cannabis, being there is a lawsuit. Jason Zimmerman said their direction is the City has settled on the cannabis use in the districts and they aren't going to dive back into that as part of this process. City Administrator Jagoe said that is a topic for the Community Development Director to look into. Jason Zimmerman said he thinks this was a helpful conversation. In terms of timing, they will start to roll out the draft text that they have been working on. It will go before Planning Commission first and will be forwarded to Council after that. There is a public adoption process after that. Councilmember Weber thanked the consultants and the Planning Commission for their hard work on this. C. Conduit Bond Debt Financing Discussion Finance Director Yang said that the City was recently approached by a private entity regarding the City's interest and capacity for issuance of conduit debt financing. She pointed to the City's policy on private activity bond financing, which is the most common form of conduit debt financing. Conduit debt financing is a way for the City to help a private entity like a hospital or non-profit organization borrow money at a lower, tax-exempt interest rate. The City acts as a pass-through entity to issue those bonds on behalf of the private entity. t2 ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COI.INCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST 11,2025 Finance Director Yang said there is no City liability with conduit debt financing. The City won't be liable for paying back the debt. The bonds are paid back by the private entity and the City's General Fund or credit rating are not at risk. There is no taxpayer burden because the private entity is solely responsible for repayment. The City's ability to issue its own bonds for City projects are not impacted. There is a public benefit. The City issues these bonds only for projects that serve a public purpose, such as a hospital expansion, an affordable housing projects or a non- profit university new building. Finance Director Yang said the process involves the City Council formally approving the bond issuance. This approval confirms that the project aligns with the City's public purpose. The City is willing to act as the conduit issuer. The City's role is primarily administrative and involves ensuring all legal requirements are met. We would work with our bond counsel andmunicipal advisor. There is no cost to the City. If we work with third parties, those costs would be covered by the private entity. Finance Director Yang said Staff is seeking Council discussion and direction on this topic to determine how to move forward. l\{ayor Grant said the City issues part of ourbank-qualified financing, which is $10 million a year. We aren't going to use it the rest of the year. In doing so, it makes the offering tax-exempt rather than taxable for the person holding the bond. That lowers the interest rate. St. Odilia would get the benefit of the lower interest rate. The City takes 1/8th of lo/o. Any expenses we incur beyond that are paid by the applicant. Councilmember Rousseau wasn't aware we can do this outside of the City jurisdiction. This is different than Presbyterian Homes in2015. She wonders if this is a missed opportunity. She asked if we can promote this to other entities in the area. She tried to reach out to Propel. It has been ten years since anyone has utilized this. Should we be initiating conversations with non-profits in Shoreview or other surrounding communities? NIay,or Grant said it is required by law that Shoreview has to pass an ordinance that says they're not interested. Then we would have the opportunity, if someone approaches us to do it. The legal unit of govemment has the first right. Councilmember Rousseau isn't talking about stealing. She wonders if we are missing communicating this and making sure more people are aware of it. Councilmember Holden said Presbyterian Homes wasn't for Arden Hills. They're headquarters is here and they got it. The buildings they used it for was not in Arden Hills. She believes it's in the white paper for resources. We have to be careful with TCAAP coming up. We have to make sure we don't go over the S10 million. Mayor Grant said it is an opportunity to help out an entity and the City will collect a little money. There's no risk. Councilmember Weber said he heard that it won't impact future bonding, but now it sounds like it could. Finance Director Yang said this is a one-time thing for this year. t3 ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COTINCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST 77,2025 Councilmember Weber said this will be in2025. Finance Director Yang confirmed. The $10 million resets in2026. Councilmember Weber thought we were talking about 2026. He doesn't see any reason to say no to this. Councilmember Holden thinks it is good to encourage other people to use this. But we have to ask who we want to use it. Do we want to do it for-profit. non-profit? There are all kinds of complications depending on who asks for it. Mayor Grant remembers the Presbyterian Homes request was a large one. The City ended up with $128,000. Councilmember Weber said if we get to October and it's going to expire, we should try to use it. It can be a revenue stream that we can use annually. He would support promoting this, towards the end of the year, when there is no chance of the City needing the bonding ability. He would be indiscriminate. It is income with no risk. Mayor Grant said there is a unanimous consensus on this. D. State of the City Update City Administrator Jagoe said Staff is putting together the final drafts of slides for the State of the City event. The topics are Rice Creek Commons, Public Works and Parks, Community Development, Public Safety, City Finance and other Administration. She is requesting that Council deliberate and discuss who will present those topics. She would also like feedback from Council on marketing and outreach. This will be in the August/September addition of the newsletter. We will promote through the website, social media and our city TV channel. Last year there was a postcard mailed to the local businesses. Mayor Grant said the big item is to decide who will present each topic. Councilmember Rousseau would like to present the Community Development. She also thought if someone wants to split topics and take Public Works, she would like to do Parks and Recreation. Councilmember Holden would like to do Public Works and Park and Recreation. She did it last year. N{a1,or Grant said he would take Public Safety and City Finance. Councilmember N{onson said she would do Rice Creek Commons. She remembers it feeling like an overview of what each department does. She would like to see it outline rvhat was done in 2024, what we saw coming and what has actually happened. Some overview is helpful but she doesn't think it's necessary to go through TCAAP's history. She wants to get into the meat of what people really want to know. The history is very interesting. 14 ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2025 Mayor Grant said from the last State of the City to this State of the City, we should cover everything. We cover things that are current up to today. We don't just look back at 2024. Councilmember Monson asked when the2024 State of the City was. City Administrator Jagoe said it was February of 2024. She hasn't reviewed all of the slides yet but she worked on the Community Development slides. She included everything from the last event until today. Councilmember Weber said he is interested in Public Works and is okay with splitting it, as Councilmember Rousseau suggested. Councilmember Holden said we all get the slides when working with Staff. She pulled a lot of information last year when presenting the Public Works slides. She doesn't want to bore people. Councilmember Monson said there are big projects happening, such as the zoning code ordinance. It would be nice to highlight what people can expect to see in that ordinance. The Adopt-A-Park, the sponsorships and the Master Parks Plan. There are interesting things that can be shared. Ma1,or Grant said there is conflict. The suggestion was made to split Public Works and Parks. Councilmember I\{onson asked if Mayor Grant said he would do City Finance and Public Safety. l\{avor Grant confirmed. He suggested Councilmember Weber take all of Public Works and Councilmember Rousseau take all of Parks and Recreation. Councilmember Holden said no. She has been working with Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen on Public Works for the last fir,e years. N{avor Grant said there are three for Public Works. Councilmember Weber said no. Both he and Councilmember Holden want Public Works. Councilmember Rousseau requested that Parks and Recreation be split off from Public Works and whoever presents the Public Works could have a secondary topic. Councilmember Monson asked if Public Works can be split. She asked what topics other than PMP. Public Works Director/Cit1, Engineer Srvearingen said there is infrastructure and a lot of Park and Rec stuff. There is plenty of work that we are doing this year and next year. Councilmember N{onson asked if he could split them into the past and then what is coming up. Public Works Director/Cit1' Engineer Srvearingen said it would be the same thing we did last year. He had prior years, current year and next year infrastructure maps. 15 ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST 77,2025 16 Mayor Grant said we can try to split it or we can do rock, paper, scissors. He asked how we want to do it. Councilmember Weber asked what the other option is. He said Mayor Grant is taking City Finance and Public Safety. He thinks the Administration topic is maybe three minutes. Nla-vor Grant said he isn't taking Administration. Councilmember Weber understands that. He's saying whoever doesn't have Public Works has nothing. Mayor Grant said he will give up Public Safety or City Finance. Councilmember Weber asked if Councilmember Holden would be interested in Public Safety. Councilmember Holden said no. She voiced her opinion already. Councilmember Weber said he voiced his opinion as well. He asked how we are going to decide. Mayor Grant suggested dividing the topics in half or by thirds. Councilmember Holden said that's ridiculous. l\Iayor Grant knows. He was just tossing it t-rut. Councilmember Weber said Councilmember Holden is on the Fire Board and Public Safety makes sense for her. He understands her interest in Public Works, having done it for five years. He doesn't understand why Public Safety is out. Councilmember Holden said she knows nothing about police and she has only been on the Fire Board for five months. She doesn't know much about the Fire Board. She has to leave at 9:00 every time there is a Fire Board meeting so she misses most of it. Councilmember Weber said this could be a learning opportunity. Councilmember Rousseau said she is in favor of Councilmember Weber taking Public Works and Parks and Recreation. Just because he hasn't been here for the last five or ten years doesn't mean he doesn't get to have a space. We don't have to do it the way we've always done it. I\Iayor Grant said then Councilmember Rousseau would have nothing. Councilmember Rousseau said she will have Community Development. Councilmember Holden said she will take nothing. Councilmember N{onson said Councilmember Holden uras on the Fire Board trvo and a half years ago after a former Councilmember passed arvay. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COTINCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST 11,2025 Councilmember Holden confirmed. For about 8 months. Councilmember Monson said Councilmembers Holden and Weber should be able to figure this out between them. This doesn't need to be a Council discussion. She suggested they take the conversation off line. Councilmember Weber said we can figure it out now. He proposed a solution and was told no. He thinks the only one Councilmember Holden expects to compromise is him. Councilmember Holden asked why he doesn't take Public Safety. Councilmember Weber said just because she put her hand up first and has done it for five years doesn't mean she gets it. He wants it, as well. It is what he has done as a career for the last ten years. Despite her experience with this event, he has experience, too. Councilmember Holden said maybe since it is his career he's not the best one to do it. Mayor Grant summarized Rice Creek Commons is Councilmember Monson, Community Development is Councilmember Rousseau, Public Safety and Finance are Mayor Grant. He doesn't know who will do Admin. We have Public Works and Parks and Recreation still in question. Councilmember Monson suggested a coin flip. Mayor Grant said we have to do something. He doesn't have a problern with flipping a coin. He said Councilmember Holden has a couple of decades of experience. That can be looked at either way. City Administrator Jagoe said we can split Public Works and Parks and Recreation. Councilmember Monson thought rather than splitting the two topics, Public Works can be split in two and Parks and Recreation can be a separate topic. Councilmember Weber said they are lumped together because they fill the same space. Parks and Rec along with Public Works fills a slot. It could make sense to split those two. But splitting one single topic into two is just splitting hairs. City Administrator Jagoe agreed. It wouldn't be as easy to break down the topic of Public Works into two presentations. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen agreed. City Administrator Jagoe said Admin is an introduction and could go to Councilmember Rousseau. Councilmember Monson said she can take Admin. City Administrator Jagoe said splitting Public Works and Parks and Rec is a clear delineation. t7 ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2O25 18 Councilmember Monson said she will take Admin and she believes we should flip a coin for Public Works. The other option is to table the discussion. City Administrator Jagoe said we need to start to get the draft slides finalized and organized. We also have to work on the script. Staff would prefer the Council not table this. It is important for Staff to be working with a Councilmember to complete these finishing touches. Councilmember Monson asked if the two Councilmembers were open to flipping a coin. Councilmember Weber said yes. Councilmember Holden said she would ask that Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen take the finishing touches, that she already provided, off the slides. Mayor Grant said the question is will she be okay with a coin flip. Councilmember Holden asked why. Councilmember Monson said because the two Councilmembers can't agree. Councilmember Holden said it's not can't. This is a group. Mayor Grant said they did decide. They both want Public Works. Councilmember Monson said if the two can't figure it out and it is going to be left to Council then her recommendation is to flip a coin. This is ridiculous. She said she will take Public Works and neither of them will get it. Mayor Grant asked if either of the two have a strong preference for Parks and Recreation or Public Works, if they were split. Councilmember Weber said he will let Councilmember Holden do Public Works this year on the understanding he will present that topic next year. He said he will take Public Safety. Mayor Grant said he has Public Safety. Councilmember Weber said Mayor Grant already stated he would give up one of the topics. He said Mayor Grant is trying to take two of the main categories. He can't do that. Mayor Grant said yes, he can. He will give up Public Safety, if Councilmember Weber wants him to. Councilmember Holden said City Administrator Jagoe can do Public Safety. Mayor Grant agreed with that. Councilmember Weber said he is trying to compromise. Councilmember Rousseau said Councilmember Weber would get City Finance. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST 11,2025 19 Councilmember Weber said the new Councilmember can't just sit on the sidelines. City Administrator Jagoe said we have not had the City Administrator present before. It has always been Council. Councilmember Weber said he would like to do Public Safety this year and he wants Public Works next year. Councilmember Monson said she supports that compromise. Mayor Grant said Councilmember Holden can have Public Works and Parks and Recreation. Councilmember Holden thought we were splitting those two. Mayor Grant said now we are not. Councilmember Holden agreed. Mayor Grant doesn't know if we can say next year. Councilmember Weber said he is trying to get her to give up a little ground but she's not budging off of her mountain top. Councilmember Holden told Councilmember Weber not to go there. We can have it all out here now. Councilmember Weber said, let's. Councilmember Holden said she can talk to Mayor Grant and have conversations across the table now. Mayor Grant asked if Councilmember Holden wants the Public Works and Parks and Rec. Councilmember Holden confirmed she wants Public Works. Mayor Grant summarized the assignments. Councilmember Rousseau is fine to do the Admin introduction. She thought if Public Safety is a lighter topic than Community Development then Councilmember Weber can have that. City Administrator Jagoe said she had Councilmember Monson down for the Admin. Public Safety is statistics for Lake Johanna Fire Department and Sheriffs Department. It's just two slides. Councilmember Holden said we need to build in the cost this time. City Administrator Jagoe said we can include some new content. Last year it was just two slides. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COLINCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST 11,2025 Mayor Grant asked if Councilmember Weber would prefer to have City Finance. Councilmember Weber is fine presenting Public Safety. He would prefer to move on from this topic. Mayor Grant summarized Councilmember Monson will do TCAAP, Councilmember Holden will do Public Works and Parks and Rec, Councilmember Rousseau will do Community Development, Councilmember Weber will do Public Safety and Mayor Grant will do City Finance. He said the Admin can go to whoever has the fewest slides. City Administrator Jagoe said the final item Staff is seeking feedback on is if Council would like to do a mailing to the local businesses. Councilmember Monson said yes. Mayor Grant said yes. He asked if we will put the date and time on the postcard. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. Councilmember Holden said we had a lot better success when Council went out and handed them out. That wasn't on a Saturday, it was a weekday. Mayor Grant said to mail the post card. He asked if there was anything else. City Administrator Jagoe said no. E. Ducks Discussion City Administrator Jagoe said this topic is being brought back after the May 12n work session. Staff is seeking Council direction on what ordinance language Council is looking for or if it should be put back on as a future agenda item or remove it from the list entirely. Mayor Grant said he wouldn't want it to go back on the list. He wants to figure it out. Councilmember Weber is disappointed to not have information on how they differ from chickens. Council asked for that. He searched for information regarding viruses that ducks carry and he couldn't really find much. The only thing he found regarding illness was that ducks tend not to display symptoms as aggressively as other fowl. The only thing ducks require, that chickens don't, is a water source. That can just be a kiddie pool. The Planning Commission met and discussed the chicken ordinance. They tabled it and were interested in leaming about other fowl. If we are going to include ducks maybe we can add a section to open the possibility of other fowl. Councilmember Monson would like to do that. Ducks is a low priority for her. We've got the chickens. If ducks come back, that's fine, but she doesn't want to spend any more time on it tonight. Councilmember Holden thinks we should just leave it as chickens. 20 ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COTINCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST 71,2025 2I Mayor Grant would like to see the issue resolved. He doesn't have a strong opinion of if ducks are included or not. Councilmember Rousseau said we should send it to the Planning Commission. Mayor Grant said have them add a kid pool or water source. City Administrator Jagoe said Staff will prepare draft language and bring it to the Planning Commission. Because they tabled the item, it will come back to them in September. Council recessed the work session at 6:57 pm. Council reconvened the work session at 8:05 pm. F. Proposed Public Works Organtzational Chart - Phase 2 Council determined that there was nol enough time to discuss this topic prior to the Regular City Council Meeting and discussed ltem 3G-Agenda Planning. At 8:27 pm, Council began discussion on this topic, after completing the discussion on Agenda Planning. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he is bringing back the Public Works Organizational Chart modifications. Last year Council saw the entire proposed Organizational Chart. That is included in the agenda packet. Council requested to see Phase 2 after Phase I is up and running to Staff s satisfaction. He noted having the two leads and the Park and Recreation Manager has helped spread out the responsibility. He said it brings management and union staff together. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said Phase 2 would add the Streets Lead positions. That would complete the leads for the Public Works maintenance workers. The other addition is to add a full time Public Works maintenance worker. He understands this is a big ask. He gathered information regarding the work we are currently doing and what we have planned to do. One of the big lifts with the Public Works maintenance plan is we will list out everything that we see for next year. It doesn't account for randomness. We address the typical emergency responses. They prioritized each task so as the year nears an end, they know what items must be completed and which ones could be dropped. We try to use available resources like ICWC, maximize our seasonal employees and schedule overtime, only if absolutely necessary. He added estimated hours for each task. Everyone's time was tracked last year. There is a clear labor gap to achieve the entire Public Works maintenance plan. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he is looking for direction on implementing Phase 2, and he stood for questions. Councilmember Rousseau likes the way he is using the data and putting together a business plan. She said every year when we discuss staffing and hiring, we ask when you need them. Is this something that we need to consider the full amount for the 2026budget, or can it be hired in March or later. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST II,2O25 22 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he has it listed as a "needs now". We have shown the gap exists now. When there are gaps like this, some things just don't get done. We have to drop those lower priority items. For example, when we have a request to build a shade structure in front of trash bins. It would be a great improvement, but we don't have the time to do it. When there isn't an employee to do the work, the lower priority items just don't get done. He is flexible to the timing but the need exists now. Councilmember Weber asked how we did with seasonals this year. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said we hired a full crew. We lost one, who found a full time job with Ramsey County, after about a month. We lost another one last week. There are six right now and three more will be done by next week. We will be down to two through September. We are going to check to see what budget is remaining and see if we can post to get another person in to get us through fall. Councilmember Weber asked how we did with those planned hours. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they took a lot of PTO so a lot of them have very few full 80-hour pay periods. They stayed busy. They mainly focus on parks work. The big change from the fire department is they will require us to service every hydrant in the City. They provided a three-phase project. There were two seasonal employees who were comfortable servicing the hydrants. They worked on them for a few weeks. Having those employees focused on servicing hydrants for multiple weeks, takes them away from other activities. Councilmember Weber thought the fire department was going to let the City phase into that plan. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. We did 50% this year. The other 50% will be done next year. ln2027 we will have to do all of them. Councilmember Weber said that time was spent getting half done this year. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. Councilmember Weber asked if ICWC is still difficult to schedule. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. They have been an unreliable resource for getting tasks done. Councilmember Holden reached out to their representative and they said they are working on getting back to being more reliable. He isn't sure what the time line is. Councilmember Holden said they are in the process of moving inmates out of Stillwater to three different locations. They have to do that during the work week. They don't have time to plan for City labor, right now. Since we are on the weekends, we may have a better chance. Councilmember Weber asked if the lead positions would be open to external candidates or would it be an internal position. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST 11,2025 23 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it would be internal, the same as the other lead positions. Current Staff will have first opportunity. It wouldn't be adding a totally new position. Councilmember Weber said he trusts Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen's judgement however there is a big pool out there. We could possibly pull someone from Ramsey County. Councilmember Monson thinks it's odd that we pay seasonal employees PTO. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen clarified it's unpaid time off. Councilmember Monson suggested it may be good to create a policy around that. Maybe this is new for this past season, but it makes sense to put a policy in place. She wondered if there is opportunity to extend the seasonal season. She also wants to know how many levy points $107,000 is. Mayor Grant said roughly two. Councilmember Monson said we can assume two levy points for 2026 and then we have additional costs of benefits and salary. She would like to see how this folds into the budget discussions in two weeks. If we had to split, she would prefer to approve the Street Lead because the impact is less. She would want to see the maintenance worker in the back half of 2026. She said we've already made some big changes surrounding the PMP. Mayor Grant is not aware that Arden Hills has gotten significantly larger. That may change dramatically with TCAAP. He wasn't in favor of a Phase 2 when it was brought up. He said going back a little ways, we had to hire a superintendent. Public Works Superintendent Frid was promoted and got backfilled on the crew. Then we had to hire an Office Support Specialist and we did. Then we needed an Assistant Public Works Director. We hired him. Then we hired a Park and Recreation Manager. Now we're up to four new positions. Where does it stop? The City hasn't gotten any bigger. He wonders if we are doing things effectively. He asked when the Public Works Superintendent position was added. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said there was always a Superintendent position. He said the Assistant City Engineer position was converted to Assistant Public Works Director because we wanted someone with more field experience. Plus Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen is the City Engineer with signing authority so we didn't need an Assistant City Engineer. Mayor Grant said there was a time where we had Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen's position but didn't have an Assistant position. Discussion ensued regarding previous Staff and their roles. City Administrator Jagoe said some levels of service expectations on maintenance needs have been a driver. The work plan has increased the need for additional Staff. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COI.INCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2O25 24 Mayor Grant said he was here when there wasn't a superintendent or a public works admin. Maybe the Assistant Public Works Director. He has a lot on his table and he does very well. He was here when there wasn't a Rec Program Manager. Councilmember Holden reminded Mayor Grant that he was here when there was a program manager and there was another rec coordinator under that position. Mayor Grant said he has just seen so many hires in this department. He'd like to see us use ICWC or hire more summer help. Continually adding to the Staff without growth in the City isn't good. Councilmember Weber asked if they are seeking one additional position. He heard that some of these positions existed previously. With the city not having grown, are they asking for one position? Mayor Grant said this would be three. City Administrator Jagoe said the Assistant City Engineer is now the Assistant Public Works Director. The Park and Rec Manager existed as two positions previously. The Office Support Specialist was a new position, as well. Councilmember Weber said office support is a necessary position today. He would argue that we haven't added anyone. The office support is not actively working in the field. Mayor Grant remembers a time when we didn't have a superintendent. He remembers a time when there was no office support specialist. So there are two positions. Councilmember Holden said the superintendent was a new position. Public Works was only supposed to work part time down there and help at City Hall. That never happened. Two new positions in the last eight years sounds right. She thought everything was supposed to be so organized after we hired the leads last year. Now there is another position to fill. Is there a way to hire seasonals beyond the summer? There are a lot of colleges here. Those kids need to work. She doesn't want to plow all the trails, knowing the conditions aren't great.It could be a liability issue for the City. We are spending more money on consulting fees for natural resource management and forestry. We send the public work guys out there. Mayor Grant asked if natural resources is another position. Councilmember Holden said no. It adds consultant fees. If we're training our public works guys to be the forestry and tree guys. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen doesn't think there will be a lot of fees associated with forestry. We'll see an invoice for having the consultant at the last meeting regarding tree species. That forestry item shouldn't be a big ticket item. We'll spend the most on GIS services next year. Councilmember Rousseau isn't hearing a good argument about the street lead and public works being removed from this plan. She thinks we'll probably want to push one out for budgeting ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST 11,2025 25 reasons. She asked if we could push one out until later in the year, would the maintenance worker or Street Lead be better. She is in favor of ensuring rve hal,e reasonable and quality services. Public Works Director/Cit1' Engineer Srvearingen feels l'ery strongly about the Street Lead. That is a missing piece. He understands adding a maintenance worker is a big ask. The information shows there is a labor gap r.vhen rve don't have that additional rvorker. Councilmember Weber said he is saying we can push the maintenance worker off to the second half of 2026. Public Works Director/Cit1' Engineer Srvearingen confirmed. We have been performing work "vith eight full time guys. He meets for thirty minutes at the end of the rvork day with the Leads. the Superintendent and the Assistant Public Works Director. There are so many times wliere it is clear that if lve just had one more person, we could fil1 that gap. After mashing together the PTO calendar with the projects that we have going on, one more person would make a big difference. We can continue to make due with what we have but we have the data to support the need. Councilmember Weber said public works jobs are posted in the spring. If we get past that, those people are gone. Hiring someone later in the year will probably be more training. By pushing the hiring of that position to later in the year, we are passing on those people. He supports the lead position. He likes the idea of a half year. We have to see how the chips fall before we take that bite. In general, he supports the plan. Councilmember Holden asked if the seasonal calendaris set. Is there anything seasonals can do? Public Works Director/Cit1' Engineer Srvearingen said the seasonals rvill always be busy. It is tough to task them with rvhat requires a full-time operator. We have considered bumping it to l0 seasonals, especially after leaming of the hydrant servicing. The seasonals tend to be young and they don't have the skills that an experienced maintenance worker has. Nlal'or Grant said rve have one that isn't a kid. Public Works Director/Cit1' Engineer Srvearingen said u,e had a solid crerv this year. N{a1'or Grant asked rvhat the oldest seasonal worker is. Public Works Director/Cit1'Engineer Srvearingen said he's the one who left to go to Ramsey County. Councilmember Holden said we are paying at or above r.vhat other Cities are paying. That's a plus for us. We do get transfers. Councilmember Monson asked if Staff needs anything else from us. NIayor Grant said it's his place to ask that. Councilmember Nlonson understands. She noted it's almost 9:00 pm and rve are discussing how old our workers are. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST II,2O25 26 Mayor Grant said he knows. We are going to be done at 9:00. Councilmember Weber said she has the right to ask. Councilmember Rousseau had been thinking that, as well. Councilmember Holden said their questions have all been answered so it's done. Councilmember Monson said asking about our seasonal worker's age is so inappropriate. We don't need to discuss that in a public meeting. If that's not a sign that we have exhausted this topic, she doesn't know what is. Mayor Grant said we had an experienced person. He doesn't know how old he was but he wasn't a high schooler. Councilmember Monson said he is gone. He is with Ramsey County. It doesn't matter. Mayor Grant said he was not a high school student. He was very good. He said Council doesn't want to discuss it anymore. Councilmember Rousseau asked Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen what he needs from Council. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen he doesn't have clear direction on what we're moving forward with. It would be helpful for Finance Director Yang to know what to put in for budgeting, related to this. Finance Director Yang said she heard programming the Street Lead in the first half of the year. Then see what it looks like when pushing out the maintenance worker to the second half of the year. Councilmember Rousseau would like to see us look at the lead position right away. Mayor Grant isn't opposed to the lead. He doesn't think we need the FTE. Councilmember Weber said we haven't approved the FTE. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. She said this will come back as part of the September budget discussion. Mayor Grant said we should just adjourn. Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Work Session meeting at 8:53 p.m. G. Agenda Planning Council determined thal there was not enough time to discuss ltem 3F-Proposed Public Works Organizational Chart - Phase 2 prior to the Regular City Council Meeting so Council discussed ltem 3G-Agenda Planning. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2O25 27 Mayor Grant said there are a number of items on the Agenda Planning list. We have a number of items that were added. Some require research by Staff. Some don't. Discussion ensued regarding which items have already been addressed and can be removed from the list. Councilmember Rousseau said we didn't do a Buy Nothing day after the cleanup day. She wonders if that should just move to spring of 2026. Ma1,or Grant asked if anyone wants to talk about that. Cleanup day was the big one. We solved that. Councilmember Monson said if we are bringing another topic up she would want it to be a narrow, short term one. She would like to save the meatier topics for when the Community Development Director is on board. She thinks the Use of City Logo Policy is important. She thinks Staff can come to Council with a policy they find from another City. Then we aren't starting from zero. City Administrator Jagoe said the August 25 Special Work Session is full. We'll take the full time to get through the topic areas on the agenda. The budget discussion may carry over to September 8. We could finish that discussion, have a short update on State of the City and the City Logo discussion could be after that. Mayor Grant said we could do the feeding of geese or cannabis discussion. He agrees there are meaty topics on the list. Staff will need time to look at them. He agrees with trying to get the smaller topics off the list. Councilmember Rousseau asked what the next steps are for strategic planning. City Administrator Jagoe just got an update from the facilitator late this afternoon. She hasn't had a chance to circle back on that. She will send out an update for Council. Mayor Grant said August has five Mondays. He asked if there was any appetite for a Special Work Session on August 18. Councilmember Holden said no. Ma1,or Grant said there are five Mondays in September. We meet on September 8 and 22. September 15 is a day we could use. Councilmember Weber asked what we will go over. Mayor Grant said anything Staff has ready. Councilmember Rousseau asked if the January through March schedules will increase. Then we can hit some of the smaller items. Mayor Grant hopes we can discuss them and get them clff the list. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2O25 28 City Administrator Jagoe said starting in September, the Work Sessions go back to the 5:30pm start time. Councilmember Holden said we need to discuss the January through March meetings. That was done for employee retention and safety because Staff has to drive dark and icy roads. That came from the Personnel Committee. Personnel should talk about that before it comes to Council. She thinks a lot of them can be drafted by Staff and Council can act on them. Councilmember Rousseau asked if it would be easier for Staff if Council prioritize the list and send it to her. City Administrator Jagoe said she will remove the topics that were identified and reformat the table and send it out. Council can rank the items and she will leave space for Council to comment if they want discussion or just have Staff recommendation. Councilmember Rousseau would like to keep the Buy Nothing cleanup day in our minds. The thought is to do a Buy Nothing day and a cleanup day the next day. Councilmember Monson said there are four months left. She wondered if we should pick one really meaty topic and hammer through it. Maybe it's ADUs. That will be the only extra thing we do for the next four months. We could choose two less time consuming topics and try to get through them. The other option is to pick off all of the lighter ones. We can strategically narow how we want to handle the next four months and if there is extra time we can readjust. Councilmember Weber supports discussing cannabis. He wants to understand the State's change in the funding for Cities. He wants to revisit the idea of forming smaller committees for some of these smaller items. He does support hammering through these topics. If it comes to it, we can have a second meeting over the winter, recognizing the imposition that places on Staff. He would like to discuss committees so we can get through some of these topics and not have to resort to a second meeting in the winter months. Councilmember Monson supports that. Mayor Grant supports that, too. He said other cities have policies on these topics. There's no need to recreate the wheel. He noted some dates that could be used in October and November. Mayor Grant said there are additional Mondays in September and October that could be used for special work sessions. Councilmember Holden said we were talking about September 29. Mayor Grant asked if that works for everyone. Councilmember Monson would prefer if we have a better strategy around what will be discussed during that time before committing to additional special work sessions. Her opinion is to discuss ADUs through the end of the year. Councilmember Rousseau thought we were going to talk about affordable housing. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COLINCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2O25 Mayor Grant asked if Staff can have ADUs and affordable housing ready for the October meetings. City Administrator Jagoe said Staff can put together some preliminary information to get Council feedback on ADUs for the September 29 meeting. The other language may be part of the zoning ordinance through PUDs. We can bring affordable housing to the September 29 meeting, too. She thought that was going to stay on the track with the zoning ordinance. Councilmember Holden said we need a policy. Are they going to write that for us? City Administrator Jagoe was thinking they would put something together as part of the PUD language. We could have a policy come back, if Council wants that. Councilmember Weber asked if by "them" she means Community Development Director Reilly. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. The policy would be on our side and would be the Community Development Director. She doesn't know if a policy would be ready by the September meeting but could bring forward some draft options to consider. Councilmember Weber understood we were going to wait until the Community Development Director position was filled to undertake this large task, as a priority. He doesn't think it's reasonable to expect a full scope by the end of September. After meeting him, it seems this is right in his wheelhouse. He doesn't think we can have any comprehensive progress by September and he wants to tackle it fully, rather than biting off little pieces. Mayor Grant asked if we are done with chickens and ducks. Councilmember Weber said Council agreed to send it back to the Planning Commission with an option to add other fowl, if they choose to do so. City Administrator Jagoe said we can bring back the discussion of ADUs and a policy to that September 29. The Community Development Director will have just started. City Administrator Jagoe will be putting together the packet and the Community Development Director will be here for the discussion. She can share sample ordinance language and identiff the topics for discussion. He can hear the feedback and comments but he won't have been here long enough to put together draft language to consider. Councilmember Holden noted the reason it is in PUDs is just to list that it's one of the things we want. The City would have a policy. She thought we could look at the language in the surrounding cities' policies, agree on what we want and move forward. City Administrator Jagoe agreed she could pull together some examples for the September 29. There just won't be a staff recommendation. Councilmember Holden understands. We need to discuss it. Councilmember Weber asked if we are talking about affordability or ADUs? 29 ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST 11, 2025 30 Councilmember Holden said affordability. Councilmember Weber said he was talking about ADUs. Cit1, Administrator Jagoe said the sample policies will be regarding affordability. The ADUs will be an ordinance. Councilmember Weber added that is its own track. City Administrator Jagoe can bring forth samples for both as an agenda item. They will be two different tracks of discussion. Councilmember Monson said it sounds like it's too early. She would rather see Staff not do that work until the Community Development Director is prepared to bring it forward. City Administrator Jagoe that would push this discussion into October. That would give the Community Development Director time to research and bring something to an additional work session in October. Mayor Grant repeated the work session in October would be appropriate for ADUs. Staff confirmed. Councilmember Weber wanted to clarify that the affordability language and policy are happening with HKGi. City Administrator Jagoe clarified they would not be writing the policy. They would just be writing ordinance language. The policy would need tc'r come back separately. Councilmember N{onson asked what topics will be discussed on September 29. Discussion ensued regarding availability for a special work session. Councilmember N{onson said she would prefer to not do special work sessions. If we are going to have a special work session, she wants there to be a focus. What are we going to talk about? She said Mayor Grant proposed a special work session to get some items off the list. She wondered if there were any topics he would like to see discussed. May,or Grant thinks we could knock off the feeding of geese, we could do the cannabis discussion, the temporary goat/buckthom and he thinks we could do the use of City logo policy. Citl' Administrator Jagoe said she noted earlier that the use of City logo policy will be brought back on September 8. Councilmember Rousseau would be fine for Mayor Grant and someone else to form a small committee and work on the geese, goats and the logo policy. They can just bring back their recommendation to the full Council. Councilmember Holden said now geese aren't going to be considered fowl. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2025 3I Councilmember Monson said this is feeding geese. Councilmember Holden asked if we are talking about wild geese. Councilmember N{onson confirmed. She said this is the residents who feed geese on the lake, causing pollution in the water. Nlal,or Grant said he thought we already had something against feeding r.vildlife. City Administrator Jagoe confi rmed. Nlay,or Grant said it's already in there. People can't feed them. Councilmember Monson said someone sent a letter to a neighbor who is feeding geese. A resident came forward with it but she doesn't know who the person is. Citl,Administrator Jagoe said we have not received a complaint. lt was an ask for the Council to discuss it. Nlay,or Grant said feeding of geese is a no. Councilmember Holden said that's in the ordinance already. Citl'Administrator Jagoe said if the City receives a complaint we can follow the ordinance. N{ayor Grant asked what is needed for the goats and buckthorn discussion. Councilmember Nlonson said it would allow for temporary use of goats to clear buckthom. She thinks we can make that a policy. I\!ayor Grant asked if anyone is against using goats to remove buckthom. City Administrator Jagoe said the context of that discussion is that our ordinance doesn't allow for electric fencing. That is where rve would have to provide language in the ordinance to allow the electric fence. Councilmember Holden said they are not allowed to have goats, even temporarily. The policy would say you can't have an electric fence. Councilmember N{onson said everyone is all okay with the goats. She would like to see Staff write some language and bring it back for Council approval. She doesn't think anyone is going to fight the removal of buckthorn. City, Administrator Jagoe said Staff will bring the use of City logo discussion back on September 8. Discussion ensued and Council agreed to postpone the cannabis discussion until the larvsuit in a different city is resolved. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COLI-NCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II,2O25 32 Councilmember Monson asked if the funding of Lake Johanna Boulevard would be a good topic for a special work session. Councilmember Rousseau thought strategic planning would be a good topic. City Administrator Jagoe will follow up with the facilitator. The will be a placeholder topic for a September 29 special work session. Council agreed. Councilmember Monson looked at the list. She said we have short term rental ordinance, rental licensing program which go hand in hand with ADUs. Councilmember Holden asked if they do. City Administrator Jagoe said they are different discussions. There will be something in the ADU ordinance regarding rentals, but the rental licensing and short term rental aren't always ADUs. Councilmember Holden said we have a lot of rental properties right now. City Administrator Jagoe said the short term rental and rental licensing will come back once the Community Development Director is here. Councilmember Monson asked about Code of Conduct. She said we completed the committees but haven't done Council. We have the norns and have talked about expanding them to be a little broader. Mayor Grant said we need to be able to see ourselves in our own conduct to know. Councilmember Monson suggested everyone should watch tonight's meeting video. Mayor Grant doesn't think the encroachment discussion would be a huge lift for Staff. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he was going to try to mix that discussion in with the Adopt-A-Spot program. That may address some of these encroachments. Staff will be proposing an Adopt-A-Spot program. It's similar to Adopt-A-Parks, but this can be a spot in a park. Councilmember Holden said residents can make their yard bigger by adopting the spot abutting your yard. Pubtic Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said residents could propose to do something for the City, with that space. It can be maintaining the area or possibly adding a feature. Councilmember Holden repeated that residents can make their yard bigger. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - AUGUST II.2O25 33 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said that is not what he is saying. We will need to define the terms that are appropriate for Adopt-A-Spot. Councilmember Monson said that is one of the things we have discussed. We asked if we just need a program that allows encroachment that falls within certain boundaries. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. This is a solution for that. Councilmember Monson asked when that would be ready for discussion. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen would have to check with Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky. Councilmember Monson said it seems like we don't really need to have the special work session in September. We have named ten topics and it's either not good timing or the topics need to come back. Councilmember Rousseau would like to hold that September 29 date. She would like to see the Community Development Director get started and see what Park and Recreation Manager Skalicky has to say about the Adopt-A-Spot and encroachment. We can come back at the next meeting and either define the agenda or determine the meeting isn't needed. Mayor Grant said we should reserve those Mondays. Councilmember Holden said September 29 is the date we have reserved. Mayor Grant confirmed September 29.He said October 20. Councilmember Weber said we should step through this slower. We have an additional work session planned that we don't have an item for. Mayor Grant is trying to ask if Council reserve October 20 for a special work session, in case there are items to work through. Councilmember Holden said the new Community Development Director may have something available. City Administrator Jagoe said she would not be available on October 20, but Council could still have a special work session with the Community Development Director, depending on his availability. Councilmember Holden asked if we are going to talk about a Climate Action Plan. It's on the list. Do we want to talk about it? Councilmember Monson said it's at the bottom. There are other things that are higher priority. 4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES None. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION _ AUGUST 11,2025 34 ADJOURN rant adjourned the City Council Work Session meeting at 8:53 p.m. ing y Clerk