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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-25-25-SWS Request for Special City Council Work Session A special meeting may be called by the Mayor or by any two Councilmembers. Reason for meeting: 1. Public Inquiries/Informational 2. Response to Public Inquiries 3. Agenda Items A. Utility Billing Rate Discussion B. 2026 CIP and Operating Budget Discussion C. Agenda Planning 4. Council/Staff Comments Adjourn Requested Date: 08/25/2025 Requested time: 5:00 pm Open meeting X Closed meeting Signature of person(s) making request: 08/21/2025 Mayor or Council Member Date / / Council Member Date -This section to be completed by City staff- Date received: 08/21/2025 Date meeting to be held: 08/25/2025 Time of meeting: 5:00 pm Location: City Hall All necessary postings and notices have been completed. 08/21/2025 Signature of City Clerk Date City of Arden Hills ▪1245 West Highway 96 ▪ Arden Hills Minnesota 55112 Phone 651.792.7800 ▪ Fax 651.634.5137 ▪ www.cityofardenhills.org lt ,-4R�EN HILLS Approved: September 22, 2025 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION AUGUST 25, 2025 5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Grant called to order the Special City Council Work Session meeting at 5:00 p.m. Present: Mayor David Grant; Councilmembers Brenda Holden, Tena Monson, Emily Rousseau and Kurt Weber Absent: None Also present: City Administrator Jessica Jagoe; Public Works Director/City Engineer David Swearingen; Finance Director Joua Yang, Senior Planner Elena Fransen and Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL Aisha Elmquist of Arden Hills is proposing to have a tree planted in memory of House Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark Hortman. In light of the tragedy that happened, many cities and private parties are looking at some way to memorialize them. A tree was recently planted in Shoreview. She would love to see Arden Hills follow suit. She reached out to City Staff to discuss possibilities. Representative Hortman loved flowering trees so a few species were discussed. She discussed potential locations with Staff. She would be happy to gather any additional information that Council would find helpful and bring it back to a future meeting. Mayor Grant said Council discussed this at a previous meeting. There was agreement among Council to plant a tree. Council directed Staff to do some additional research and bring something back. He said she shared some great ideas with Staff and Council is in favor of this proposal. Councilmember Weber asked what location was scoped. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the exact location has not been determined but there are a couple of ideas for where it could go. Councilmember Rousseau asked what is needed from Council to move forward. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 2 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he would need Council to direct him to move forward. He would need to look at what mechanism we would use to approach this. He would like to know what Shoreview did. Mayor Grant thought we could take it out of the Tree Fund. City Administrator Jagoe said we need to make sure it meets the public use expenditures criteria. Mayor Grant said we always plant trees. This would be a tree planted in their honor. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen asked if there would be plaque. City Administrator Jagoe said Staff would look at the total cost of that. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said that is enough direction, for now. Councilmember Holden wants to make sure that when it is planted there will be a dedication ceremony. Mayor Grant agreed. It will be in the newsletter with a photo of the plaque. He asked how soon we can do this. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said we are already in the process of it. We asked Ms. Elmquist to attend tonight to make a formal request. Mayor Grant asked if we are past the planting window for this season. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said there is still time. It will depend on the type of tree selected. Mayor Grant would encourage a hearty, flowering tree. Councilmember Rousseau said we could note when the dedication ceremony will be during the State of the City. Ms. Elmquist said Representative Moller, and others, would be very interested in attending. Once a date is selected, she can make sure to get the word out. Mayor Grant said we will extend an invitation to Senator Marty and get the word to her colleagues at the Capitol. 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 3 3. AGENDA ITEMS A. Utility Billing Rate Discussion Finance Director Yang said the City charges 8% late fee penalty when utility accounts are over 30-days past due. This is a one-time penalty that is charged against the utility account's outstanding invoice amount. The City has waived late penalties on a case by case basis, based on some common themes included in the agenda packet information. The City doesn't have a formal policy on waiving these late fees. Based on Staff inquiries to neighboring cities, that is the case across the cities. Staff is seeking discussion and direction from City Council regarding the existing ordinances and the City's current practices for waiving late fees on utility accounts. Staff received an inquiry about extending the 30-day past due delinquent period for utility bills. Staff is seeking further direction from Council on if we should consider a longer delinquent period, such as 45-days or 60-days. There is an outstanding request to waive two quarters of late fees. Council is requested to have a discussion before any decision is made to move forward with that or deny the request. Mayor Grant is surprised neighboring cities charge 10%. He thought 8% was high. Councilmember Rousseau asked where would residents learn that they can make that request for a one-time accommodation. Finance Director Yang said residents usually call after seeing the late fee in their invoice. Councilmember Rousseau asked if it is stated anywhere that they can call and make the request. Finance Director Yang said that is not on the invoice. Councilmember Rousseau asked how often residents call? She is aware of a business that has done this in the past. Businesses have different resources than a resident. How do residents know there is any flexibility? Finance Director Yang can't speak to how they know. She sees a handful of requests come in on a quarterly basis. There are maybe 5-10 each quarter. Councilmember Rousseau asked if the requests come from the same neighborhoods? Finance Director Yang said it is random. Councilmember Weber is surprised that other cities don't have official policies. He asked if that is correct. Finance Director Yang confirmed. It is a common practice but there is no policy that states how or if fee can be waived. Councilmember Weber said several cities do have official policies. Finance Director Yang said unless it says "policy in place" the cities on the list didn't indicate whether a policy or a common practice. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 4 Councilmember Weber assumes we will not waive the fee unless they are calling to make payment. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Weber said the individual probably isn't looking for a policy prior to calling. He said if they are calling to make payment on that delinquent bill, the waiver should just be given once per year, or however often Council decides to allow. Councilmember Holden doesn't see a water bill any differently than a mortgage, credit card or anything else. You get it and you have at least 10-15 days, by the time you receive the invoice, to pay it. One time she wrote out her bill, stuck it in her briefcase and forgot to mail it. She called. They checked to make sure that had never happened before, and they waived the fee. How many people are repetitively not paying? We know the ones who don't pay because they come up every quarter. She just doesn't think this is any different than any other bill. You get your bills, and you pay them. We have to pay the City of Roseville when our water bill comes. Councilmember Weber asked how often we pay Roseville. Finance Director Yang said payment used to be quarterly but it is now once a month. Councilmember Weber said a resident who is delinquent on a regular basis would not get their fee waived more than once in what ever time frame Council determines. That won't change. He wouldn't want it to get too convoluted. He wondered about a tiered system where maybe you get one fee waived in year one and year two, but then maybe you have to wait a whole year to do it again. That way it is punitive for repeat offenders but not for those who put it in their briefcase and forgot to mail it. There should be a policy in place and it should waive the fee for a resident who misses a single payment in a couple of years. Councilmember Holden asked how hard it is to keep track of who gets a waiver and when. Finance Director Yang said that information can be found quickly. Councilmember Rousseau thinks we should allow a fee to be waived one time over a three year time period. We should put that on the bill and in the policy. Otherwise, we just don't waive the fees. She would like to have a conversation on if 8% is right for us. Mayor Grant agrees with a forgiveness once every three years. There are instances where businesses have billing issues or it might slip through the cracks. If someone calls up and they had an issue and are willing to pay to resolve it. If they get themselves current that should be allowed once every three years. Councilmember Weber agrees with the 8%. It is the middle of the road compared to the cities that were surveyed. He wondered what the fee would be from Roseville, if we were to pay late. Finance Director Yang said we haven't been late since she has been here. The invoice is Excel - based. She hasn't seen any language outlining what the late fee rate is. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 5 Mayor Grant said there is a software conversion for Springbrook. There could be a company going through a software conversion and hit a hiccup and miss a payment. It happens. Councilmember Monson said she agrees, once every three years. She's fine with it being anywhere between 5% and 10%. Thirty days seems long. Is the assumption that if they haven't paid by 30-days that they aren't going to pay? The ones on the list are 5 days, 10 days or just a couple days after. She wondered if Staff had thoughts about the 30-days. She's fine leaving it at 30-days but at some point they are just not going to pay it. Finance Director Yang said the ordinance says 30-days past due. As common practice, we give residents a 10-day grace period beyond the 30-days. City Administrator Jagoe said the due date is 30-days and the ordinance would say the late fee goes on at day 31. Plus there is the 10-day grace period. Councilmember Monson agrees with the waiving the fee once every three years. Keeping it at 8% is fine with her. Councilmember Weber said it's 10-days delinquent. Councilmember Rousseau asked why we are at 8%. She wondered if it was an administrative cost or just a standard penalty to get someone's attention. Finance Director Yang said it is to cover part Admin fee but also to encourage residents to pay on time. Mayor Grant said we are all in agreement with 8% and one time in three years. He asked if Staff needed anything else. City Administrator Jagoe said there is a request from a particular business. She said Staff has removed one of the late fees. The request from this business was to remove two additional quarters worth of fees. She understands the business has brought the account to current, with the exception of the late fees. They stated they have made some internal changes that will correct the issue, moving forward. They were still hoping for relief from two additional quarters of fees. Mayor Grant asked if it was a procedural software administrative issue. City Administrator Jagoe thinks they had some structure changes within their finance department that created a timing issue with payment and processing of checks. Councilmember Holden asked how many quarters this was. City Administrator Jagoe said it was three quarters. We removed one. They requested that we remove two additional quarters of fees. Mayor Grant said they brought themselves current. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed, with the exception of the fees they are hoping to have removed. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 6 Councilmember Holden said they didn't pay the fees so they did not bring themselves to current. Councilmember Monson asked how much the late fee is that they want removed. City Administrator Jagoe said the two quarters of late fees totals about $16,000. Councilmember Monson would be fine with waiving half. Three quarters is a lot. That is a lot of money. Mayor Grant is okay with waiving the full amount given the nature of the problem. Councilmember Rousseau would prefer to allow half. Councilmember Weber said if he called and requested three quarters be waived, it's not happening. Our policy is one and we've done that. He asked if the late fees were applied before payment in full or was there a late fee charged because of a late fee that wasn't paid? Finance Director Yang said there was an outstanding water balance. Councilmember Rousseau asked where will residents find out that they can have one fee waived over three years. Finance Director Yang said that can be added to the utility bill. Mayor Grant asked how much water this customer uses per year. Finance Director Yang didn't have consumption information. Councilmember Monson asked if they are a high user. City Administrator Jagoe said there is a combination of accounts for this customer. Mayor Grant said the total monthly payment to the City may be relevant. City Administrator Jagoe said in the first quarter of 2024 one of the accounts was a couple hundred and another was $53,000 for that quarter. This customer receives eight separate statements. The total, when adding all eight accounts is about $100,000. The late fees total $8,000 each quarter. Councilmember Weber supports full payment. If Council agrees on them paying half, he would support that. Councilmember Holden is okay with half the payment. Councilmember Monson is fine if they pay half, she'd be okay waiving the whole thing, too. Councilmember Rousseau said she supports full payment but would be okay with us waiving half. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 7 Mayor Grant is okay with waiving half. City Administrator Jagoe asked for confirmation that we will keep the due date at 30-days, not extending it to 45-days. Councilmember Monson asked if the same business that is requesting the fees be waived is also requesting 45-day terms. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. Councilmember Monson said if they are paying monthly we should stick to 30-days. Finance Director Yang said when looking at the ordinance we found some inconsistent language in the 30-day period. Staff will bring forward an updated ordinance in the future. City Administrator Jagoe said it all says the same thing, but the difference in phrasing on how we apply late fees can be confusing. Mayor Grant said straighten it out, bring it back to council and we'll vote on it. Councilmember Holden asked how long someone would have to request a fee be waived. A year? She is worried someone won't pay year after year. What if they come back and request those fees be waived. How long is it open? Council agreed it would only be an option after the due date has passed but before the next billing cycle. Any unpaid balances are certified to taxes. Councilmember Weber wanted to address Councilmember Rousseau's idea of adding a notice to the billing statement. He supports that addition. Councilmember Holden isn't sure that's necessary. People will call the City if they want to make a request. She doesn't think we should announce that we will waive the fees. We are running a business, as far as water goes. Councilmember Weber said it could just say "Overdue bill? Contact City Staff." We don't have to lay it out, but can encourage residents to call us to work it out. Mayor Grant supports that. B. 2026 CIP and Operating Budget Discussion Mayor Grant said this is a big topic. He thought we should start with the general overview. Finance Director Yang said the general overview is broken out into separate sections; one for CIP and one for General Fund. Mayor Grant said we should go through the slides. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 8 Finance Director Yang said we discussed the 2026-2030 CIP budget at the July work sessions. Council directed Staff to provide several budget options that would be funded by either a levy increase or through bonding and the impact each funding option would have. She will touch on the shift in project expenditures and the various impacts. Finance Director Yang began with the Hard Court and Trail Rehabilitation. She shared slides showing how things will change after moving the project expenditures. Project increases, by year, are shown as negative numbers and decreases as positive numbers to show how the changes will impact the overall Fund Balance. Increases to project expenditures reduce Fund Balance and decreases improve Fund Balance. The key changes made include Hazelnut tennis court and trail rehab was shifted from 2026 to 2028. It was $250,000. That moved to $265,000; a 6% or $15,000 cost increase over a 10-year period. The Ingerson basketball court and new trail connection was shifted from both projects occurring in 2027 to just trail connections in 2027 at the $100,000. The basketball court will shift to 2033. There will be a $500 cost increase there. Mayor Grant asked if Council wanted to discuss each topic as we go through. Councilmember Monson didn't have any comments on this portion. Councilmember Holden asked if the borings have been done at Arden Manor. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. Councilmember Holden said it's flat and there doesn't seem to be any chunks out of it. There are a lot of cracks. She asked if we can crack seal it. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the cracks continue to grow. It has been crack sealed. The problem is it is built on peat moss. Councilmember Holden said we need to do the foundation. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. Mayor Grant said from an expenditure standpoint, he asked if we want to swap the Arden Manor court and Hazelnut, rather than remove Hazelnut. He thinks Hazelnut gets far more use. Councilmember Holden said it's a whole different contract. If we do the church parking lot, they wouldn't be doing the court. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen was originally going to tie the Hazelnut court to the parking lot. Council direction from the previous conversation was to shift some of the hard courts out. He thought that could be separated out from the parking lot. Councilmember Holden asked if we would save any money if they were done together. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said typically it would, from a project management standpoint. The contractor is there. That would save on mobilization costs. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 9 Mayor Grant said if we did Hazelnut in 2026 we could convert it to pickle ball and give residents the opportunity to get regulation pickle ball courts in Arden Hills. He thinks that would be well used. Arden Manor court doesn't get that much use, compared to what you could get out of Hazelnut. Councilmember Weber said there is the possibility of a grant for Arden Manor Court. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said in the past we have applied for the Community Block Development grant. That grant hasn't been available for the past two years. Councilmember Weber asked if it would apply for Hazelnut. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen is not aware of any grants that could be applied to Hazelnut. Councilmember Weber asked if that would happen next year. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the CDBG grant has no funding available. Councilmember Monson said we already delayed Arden Manor court from 2024. If the basketball court isn't used a lot, could we do fenced in soccer? If we don't think the court will get used, do we need to adjust the amenities for the community that uses it? If we are going to delay it again, she would ask for some consideration on that. If we want the court for sure, she would prefer we do Arden Manor because we've already delayed it for three years. Councilmember Weber would be open to trying to find a way to ask the community. He could see a soccer field be much more utilized there. He likes that idea. Councilmember Monson said there is a soccer field there already. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the field would flood. There is currently a drainage issue in that space. Councilmember Rousseau would be interested in learning more from the residents. She doesn't know if it's accurate that the current court isn't used. Hazelnut may have more people who are closer to it but she would like to consider this underserved community. We have pushed this out for over three years. Mayor Grant asked if we could get some nets for the hoops. One looks dilapidated and the other one is gone. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they were planned to be fully replaced with the court. Mayor Grant said that was the plan but for now, can we get nets? There are hoops but no nets. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed we could get nets. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 10 Councilmember Monson asked Staff s opinion on trying to find a different use for that court space. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it is a fine idea. Logistically we would have to do a public engagement event. If we were to keep this on track to build next year, we would need to start that process soon. We generally are bidding projects by the January/February timeframe. Councilmember Weber asked Staff s opinion on what budget impact installing a field would have. Would we have to add drainage to the soccer field? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen he heard fenced in soccer. Councilmember Weber asked if making that change would improve the budget situation. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said striping on the hard court would have a similar cost. Councilmember Weber said it's just getting repaved. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. If Council is focusing on there being a different use there. Councilmember Weber asked if Councilmember Monson was referring to a hard court. Councilmember Monson was referring to a hard court. She doesn't know what could be done. There would have to be some research. Councilmember Weber interpreted it to be grass surface and a removal of the hard court. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen has seen videos of mini nets and mini courts, where they can kick the ball off the fence. Mayor Grant said it is a three-quarter court. It certainly isn't regulation size. Maybe it should be similar to Ingerson where you have one half court basketball. One thing he noticed is the play structure is nice. The soccer grass area is kind of marshy and not so great. The shelter is nice. Where can someone go throw a frisbee or baseball, other than the soggy soccer area? If we made that a half court, there would be some green grass area to recreate. Councilmember Rousseau wants to keep this as is. She is in favor of Staff doing the outreach. She understands Staff s time and resource constraints, but she would want to hear from the community members there. Councilmember Monson said if there is a good idea, she would love to repurpose that area to something the residents want. Realistically, if we can't get that outreach completed, maybe we have to push that one to 2027 and do something else in 2026. If we repave the area for something that the community isn't heavily using seems like a missed opportunity to give them something they will actually use. We are functioning under the assumption that those residents don't use the basketball court very much. She doesn't know if that is true. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 11 Councilmember Holden said we continue to get requests for pickle ball repeatedly. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen would hesitate to put pickle ball at that location. Councilmember Holden was thinking Hazelnut. We have pristine tennis courts at Cummings. The cry for pickle bill is still outstanding. If we can save money by doing the tennis court with the parking lot, that might be a slam dunk. Councilmember Weber wanted to know if pickle ball is louder than basketball. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it generates a lot of complaints. Mayor Grant said tennis balls are soft, pickle balls are hard. Councilmember Monson asked if it is realistic for Staff to complete resident outreach before 2026. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. If he got direction tonight that Council wants to move forward, he would work with Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky to review. The area was surveyed when we were designing it, in 2022. He will review that information and they will figure out how to approach the outreach. Councilmember Monson would prefer to do the outreach and see what comes up. Then we can make the decision to hold it for 2026 or swap a different project. Councilmember Weber said if we were to decide to push Arden Manor and go with Hazelnut, is that a swap that can be made easily? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen thinks so. The tennis court at Hazelnut will just be replaced in the same spot. The soil borings there showed there is no major reconstruction work needed. The biggest discussion is what the use will be and if we want to convert it to pickle ball space. Councilmember Weber would prefer to stick to this new schedule, pending what is discovered at Arden Manor. If possible address Arden Manor in 2026. If that isn't possible we have to discuss it. There are at least two councilmembers who don't want to push this two more years. Mayor Grant said he doesn't think we can definitively decide this tonight. There is a lot of information to discuss. He thinks we should move on. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen asked for direction if Council wants Staff to move forward with the public outreach. Mayor Grant said to start with looking at the old survey and see what was said, at that time. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said that is what he will do. If that is insufficient, he would like to begin a public survey process in that community. He asked if ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 12 Council would prefer him to research that and come back to let them know there isn't enough information. Mayor Grant wondered what it would take to print postcards and ask residents to drop it off or send it in. Councilmember Monson thought a QR code and have it in English and Spanish. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said Parks and Recreation Manager Skalicky is good at that. Councilmember Holden said we need to go directly to the residents. We can't go through management. City Administrator Jagoe said we can do a mailer and a Next Door post describing the outreach. Councilmember Rousseau agrees that we need to go directly to the residents. She has concerns about language barriers. If Staff doesn't have what they need from the previous survey results, she is fine with Staff moving forward with the outreach without further Council direction. Mayor Grant said it is important that we get it right and give the residents something that they like and that they will use. Councilmember Holden said we need to be careful on wording. There are a lot of Hispanic residents and she doesn't want people wondering what the City is collecting from them. She wouldn't want anyone to be panicked. Councilmember Weber said that sounds like consensus to move forward. Mayor Grant said yes. Finance Director Yang said there were three location where park shelter replacements were programmed for 2026 at $170,000. Those were shifted to occur in 2029 with Cummings Park removed. That was an $85,000 impact. The changes resulted in a $77,500 decrease to project expenditures over the next 10-year period. The shifts in theses two park projects assume they will remain in place and have been incorporated into the various Fund Balance scenarios that she will be walking through. Mayor Grant said the Cummings Park shelter, that was removed, was used for shade while the kids play on the playground, according to residents he talked to. He asked if Council think we needs a full building, rather than just a shade structure. He doesn't think a shade structure is $85,000. Councilmember Rousseau asked if Mayor Grant was suggesting we add a shade structure as a new item at Cummings. Councilmember Weber said Cummings Park was removed in this scenario. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 13 Mayor Grant said not in 2026 but sometime in the future. If Cummings is just not in the plan at all, scratch that idea. Councilmember Rousseau would like to see us look at an additional playground structure, instead of replacing a pavilion. Councilmember Monson is fine with leaving it out and focusing on some shade potential or expansion of the playground. There are no trees on the south side of the park. Councilmember Rousseau said we could place a dedicated tree there in the near future. Mayor Grant said the best time to plant a tree was yesterday. Finance Director Yang said based on Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen's review of PMP projects, the 2028 PMP could be split into two separate projects. One could occur in 2028 and the other would be in 2030. This would mean pushing the 2030 project back to 2032, with the 2032 project being pushed to 2034, and so forth. This change would yield a Fund Balance improvement of approximately $3.5 million over the next 10-years. Finance Director Yang shared a list of infrastructure projects in 2026 that provide the new project amounts. Councilmember Holden asked how much the City owes for the Old Highway 10 Trail. The packet information says $4.5 million. She wants to know what the City's portion of that is. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said $1.27 million. Mayor Grant said that is an estimate, not a bid. That assumes the County is 50150 with us, plus receipt of a Safe Route to School grant. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. That is two $1 million grants and Ramsey County confirmed they will propose that match in their TIP. Councilmember Rousseau asked what was being taken out of 2028 to reduce the amount by $1.5 million. Finance Director Yang said it is splitting the 2028 PMP into two separate projects in 2028 and 2030. The cost increased slightly, with timing and inflation. Councilmember Weber said it appears to be about $400,000 in estimated increase. He wondered if there is a buffer built in for additional inflation or construction cost increases. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it captures everything he anticipated. He tried to stay conservative on the high end. Councilmember Holden asked which year will be the commercial property improvements. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it was originally 2030. It has been shifted to 2032. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 14 Councilmember Holden asked if they pay three quarters of the $8 million. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen clarified that this captures everything. Mayor Grant said the difference of $3.4 million is because the 2034 project got pushed to 2036 and is off the screen. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. Councilmember Weber said we are paying an additional $1.2 million dollars for this new project because we are pushing them out for the next 10 years. He pointed out that is just like bonding. We could just bond, do the projects and pay the same amount extra. Councilmember Monson said in the memo it states the levy increase being proposed for the General Fund is $742,866. Police and fire are 54% of our General Levy Fund. She asked how much is the 2026 PMP, percentage -wise. Finance Director Yang said the $3.3 million cost is not just in the PIR Fund. It is the sewer, water and surface water, as well. Councilmember Monson is just trying to determine how much it is broken out. What percent of the levy is fire safety? How much is parks vs. streets? She thinks the operating is broken out. Finance Director Yang said the way the levy works is, we take into account Fund Balance for CIP. She is proposing for CIP, which is the PIR Fund, to not change from the $250,000. If we shift projects, that will ultimately improve the overall Fund Balance. It may not change the Levy. It could change the levy down or up, if we want to. Right now what is being proposed is to remain at $250,000 for 2026. Councilmember Weber said she is proposing to add $50,000 in 2027. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Based on a specific scenario. Finance Director Yang said under equipment the 621 Case loader was shifted from 2026 to 2027. That was $300,000. Under vehicles the Ford Escape was shifted from 2026 to 2027. That was $33,500. Councilmember Weber thought there was consensus that we were just going to use the loader until we can't. He asked for clarification that all scenarios of the budget plan include the $300,000 expenditure in 2027 for the end loader. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Weber thought there was consensus that the machine will be used until it is no longer usable. He would propose moving it to 2031. We can start now and add an amount into the Equipment Fund so we can get there, by then. Councilmember Holden said the Ford Escape was $41,000. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 15 Finance Director Yang said it's net amount vs. costs. Councilmember Holden agrees to use the loader until it dies. We always try to put something in there. It could die in two years. She is amazed how many trailers we buy. You should just weld it and put a new bearing in it. We need to keep that in there. Councilmember Rousseau is in favor of using the case loader until it dies. She understands that if it does, we need to have the funds ready to purchase something. She doesn't know how far out you have to order a case loader prior to delivery. She said a fire truck is one or two years. She wondered if there is a long wait for a case loader, like there is with a fire truck. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen isn't sure. His guess would be it would be a 6-12 month wait. City Administrator Jagoe said for this discussion, we can put a pause on the timing of the case loader. Staff could bring back a discussion item in March, to get to a set number that we use for equipment replacement. Then we can look at the strategy and timing of the case loader. For now, we can leave it in the 2027 planning. It won't change the discussion for this budget. In March, Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen can do a complete review on the timing and the needs. We can determine an amount that flattens the budget level each year. Mayor Grant said one thing to keep in mind is the 621 case loader is not the only loader down there. We have a 590, as well. Yes, it's a 1-yard bucket but a dump truck is 5-yards. Maybe you have to dump 5 buckets. We can get there. The only other thing the 621 is used for is to push back snow. We usually can push that back with a snow plow, anyway. Councilmember Weber said that is an important factor. We won't be in dire straights if it does break down. We should have one, in the long run. He agrees with keeping it in the long-term plan. He also thinks we should start building for that now. That would mean, if we put away $50,000 a year we can pay for it in 6 years. Councilmember Holden said we should do the planning for that in March. Councilmember Monson agrees that Staff should come back with a plan. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen thought that was the direction to bring it back in March. He will move forward with that. Mayor Grant asked if the 1996 Redi-Haul Trailer is a zero gravity tilt trailer. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen believes all of the trailers are tilt. Mayor Grant doesn't understand why we are getting a new one. We replaced them all because we wanted the gravity tilt. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said ergonomics and safety are the reasons. The other thing to remember is the trade-in value. The "use it until it dies" approach is not ideal. Especially for a City to maintain things that way. When discussing the loader, we did look at used ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 16 pieces of equipment. At that point, we are spending retail. We don't have the state contract pricing. The 2019 model we looked at was $225,000 with no attachments. What is included in the budget is a brand new model with all the attachments we need for $275,000. So using equipment until it dies is putting us in a position where we have a huge gap. Mayor Grant was asking about the Redi-Haul Trailer. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it's a similar thing. We trade in our trailers while they are still salable on an auction and they go for a good price. Mayor Grant said the City is only three miles north to south. How many miles can we put on a trailer? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen the reasons are in the justifications. There isn't time to go through all eighty-five pieces of equipment tonight. We can go into it more in depth in March of next year. Mayor Grant said the most you have to do on a trailer is grease the bearings and maybe it needs a little welding once in a while. Councilmember Rousseau said we talked about adding equipment in the budget in the future. Which fund would we end up having discussions about the Park Master Plan and putting something aside to try to make the goals. Will that go into this years plan so it can slowly build up or will we look at it next year. Finance Director Yang said we can discuss it, this time around. It would be in the PIR Fund. Councilmember Holden said just because it's in the budget doesn't mean that we have to vote for it, when it comes forward. She said we had asked for some money to be budgeted for the 75t' Anniversary. Is that in here? City Administrator Jagoe said there hasn't been any money budgeted for that. The only allocation has been the use of the Twin City Gateway Visitor Bureau money. The update on those funds will be at the September work session. Mayor Grant asked if it is worth keeping Truck 431 as a backup. Would there be any residual on that? Or are parts so hard to get on a 2009 Sterling that we just don't want anything to do with it? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said Truck 431 has already been approved and ordered for replacement. Councilmember Holden said that wasn't the question. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he doesn't know that level of detail. That is why he had Public Works Superintendent Frid at the last meeting. He doesn't have that information. Finance Director Yang said the next few slides will be discussion on scenarios, she referred Council to Attachment B, page 1-7 in the packet. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 17 Finance Director Yang said the first two scenarios assume no change to PMP projects. She reminded that earlier discussion included splitting the 2028 PMP into two different years. That is not included in these two scenarios. Scenario A shows that if the City chose to only increase the levy, we would need to levy a larger amount. She used $350,000 as an estimate to ensure we could maintain the long term health of the fund. With that change, we would maintain a positive fund balance through 2029. Finance Director Yang said scenario B looks at bonding. The City would receive cash to fund the project, up front, in 2026. There would be no impact to the 2026 levy. The debt service would begin in 2027. The levy would increase by $163,000 in 2027. This would also only get us to 2029. The City would need to bond again in 2030 and increase the levy by $179,000 in 2031 to cover the new debt service. That would get the City to 2035. This is showing what bonding can do to the overall fund balance. Interest payments over the life of the 2026 bond is estimated to be $1.6 million. That would be a $3.3 million bond over 20 years. Interest payments over the life of the 2030 bond is estimated to be $2.7 million. That would be a $5.8 million bond over 20 years. Councilmember Holden said we will have to bond for the spine road. She asked how much we have to bond for TCAAP, including the water tower and all the utilities. Finance Director Yang recalled discussion regarding two issuances. Councilmember Rousseau asked if the water tower would be discussed in future MOUs with developers. Councilmember Weber thought the amount was $13 million. Councilmember Holden asked if that will be next year. Councilmember Weber said no. The only thing the City may be responsible for is the trunk line utilities. The water tower and any other utilities in the area can wait until development. Councilmember Holden understands that. She asked what the first bond amount would be. Councilmember Weber said $7 million. Councilmember Holden said if we bond for $7 million, which will cost us about $3 million in interest. So we will be spending $8-10 million just on bonding. Councilmember Monson said that is just for this scenario, which Staff is not recommending. Mayor Grant said in the packet it states the total interest to be paid over 20 years for the first bond would be $1.56 million. The second estimated to be $2.7 million. That's a lot of interest. Finance Director Yang said the key difference between these scenarios is if we bond, there are structured debt service payments. That means a level levy. That is $350,000 in scenario A vs. $163,000 in scenario B with less burden on taxpayers, annually. You are also spreading the tax burden to current and new users. The Fund Balance capacity is much larger because we would have more dollars to spread, simply bonding. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 18 Councilmember Weber said our projects would stay on track, as well. Finance Director Yang confirmed. She discussed scenarios C and D. These assume a shift in the PMP projects after Public Works Director Swearingen's analysis. Both have the same assumptions including: the shift in the PMP projects, increasing the levy by $50,000 in 2027 with no impact on the 2026 levy. The key difference is in scenario D we increase the levy by $50,000 annually thereafter. It will build up a Fund Balance reserve and get us to 2033 vs. 2031, as in scenario C. If we keep adding to the Fund Balance reserve we will allow ourselves more time. Finance Director Yang said scenario E assumes the same shift in PMP project expenditures but instead of increasing the levy, we would bond in 2026. This scenario will get the City through 2033. With bonding, we have structured debt service payments, a tax levy, and a larger fund balance capacity. Scenario E would see a $2 million fund balance vs. $1.3 for scenario D. If Council doesn't want to bond, Staff s recommendation is scenario D. That would be the PMP project shift and increasing the levy by $50,000 annually. Councilmember Weber said he isn't seeing it outlined that with scenario B that there is going to be a levy increase to pay that. It was a little over $300,000 combined for payment. Those would be down the road vs. a straight $350,000 next year to still fall short. We are looking at a potential increase of $1.2 million, splitting our project costs over the next six years. He said $1.2 over 20- years is a big interest rate so is $1.2 million over six years. We're losing that money either way. He would rather not risk degradation of our roads even further to the point where we have to go to a reconstruct. That would double the price. He likes the idea of scenario D as a measured approach, he thinks bonding now is justified. It will add to the PIR Fund annual levy immediately. It will get our PIR back up, giving us a head start on paying back the bond. The interest is money we would have lost anyway through increases to project costs. Councilmember Holden asked where Councilmember Weber sees the project cost increased to $1.2 or $1.7 million. Councilmember Weber said there was an earlier slide that showed the before and after. Comparing the prices it's a difference of $1.2 million. Each project split in half added an additional $400,000 between the two. The last project getting pushed out two years was a half a million dollars higher. That got kicked off the page so it isn't counted in the total amount. With this plan, over the next 8 years, we're paying an additional $1.2 million for the same projects and just splitting them up. That justifies bonding. Councilmember Holden said the bonding cost is $1.7 million. That's $500,000. Councilmember Weber said it also rescues our fund. Councilmember Holden asked how many roads are close to requiring total reconstruction. We've been doing the worst first. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said today, without the new adjustment, once we got to 2030 we were going to address the ones that are in the worst shape. We did a large area of patching in Chatham neighborhood. That seems to be holding up well. He thinks we can ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 19 get 10 years out of it. It is tough to know until we take the cores. He said starting in 2030 we will address the worst roads. Councilmember Monson asked if Councilmember Weber is in favor of scenario E. Councilmember Weber confirmed, to some extent. Councilmember Monson said it has the PMP pushed still. So he would like to see a blend of D and E. Councilmember Weber said and add in a levy increase right away. We can't get by with a 0% levy increase this year. Councilmember Monson said one of her biggest concerns is to smooth the levy. That seems to be an advantage to scenario E. Any bonding will help smooth the levy. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson said if we bond in 2026 we don't need a second bond in 2030. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Rousseau asked if Staff looked at only bonding the $1.2 million for Old Highway 10. Finance Director Yang did not look at that one alone. She took the bigger PMP project. Councilmember Rousseau asked if that could be a compromise. If we did that and a levy increase, we are halfway to the $3.3 million. Finance Director Yang said the total cost to the City for the Old Highway 10 project is $1.3 million. The total project cost is $4.5 million. That is what will drive down the Fund Balance in 2026. We could look to bond a portion of it. Councilmember Rousseau would like to see a scenario where we only bond for Old Highway 10. Other entities are paying 75% of that project. Even if we added an increase in interest, we are still saving money by doing this project. She sees justification in bonding for that. She'd like to see a combination scenario between what Councilmember Weber said and looking at just bonding for our portion of Old Highway 10. Councilmember Holden said the Lake Johanna Trail is coming in 2029. Do these numbers account for that? Finance Director Yang said these scenarios do not include Lake Johanna Boulevard Trail. Councilmember Holden said the balance of the Park Fund after Trident pays their $800,000 will just sit there. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 20 Mayor Grant favors Staffs recommendation. He doesn't think bonding is right of us. The interest payments will get us. He asked Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen about our PCI rating after 2026. He thought it was 72. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen he said it is around 72-74. We need to maintain it or it can dip drastically year to year. Mayor Grant said it can spike back up if we do a needed project. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. Mayor Grant said we are at 72 or 74 and we are trying to maintain 70. As long as the projects in 2028, 2030 and 2032 are not catastrophic projects with low PCIs, scenario D makes even more sense. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. He said we want to avoid upsetting residents over the condition of their roads. Overall the condition is 72 or 73 but Amble Drive is in the teens. It's terrible. Mayor Grant said that one is coming up. That should raise our PCI even higher. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed but the rest of the system is degrading at the same time. Mayor Grant understands it's a net effect. He doesn't want Council digging itself into a hole over future years with interest payments. Councilmember Weber said the hole is already there as indicated by the red on the pages. We need to start to fix that. Right now, scenario D, without the Lake Johanna Trail, is projecting a $1.5 million deficit. That is pushing the projects that pushes them into a territory where full reconstruct may be needed. Bonding now would reduce the need to immediately spike our levy and not push the projects out that need to be done. It also gives us the opportunity to address probable issues with our General Fund being well below the minimum preference of 50% of our budget. He thinks we are at 20% now. Finance Director Yang said it is currently 45%. Councilmember Weber said it is expected to drop significantly. Finance Director Yang confirmed it could. Councilmember Weber thinks we need to address the issue now. We are already looking at the potential for lost funds in spreading out the projects. If we spend that money on interest it will save us from having to spike the levy. Councilmember Monson wondered what the pros for scenario D are other than us choosing not to bond. If we do decide to bond, what is the recommendation? Finance Director Yang said scenario E is the best option, if we choose to bond. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 21 Councilmember Monson said we would increase the levy in 2027 by $163,000. There would be no change to the annual levy after that. It's at $250,000 and we would bump it by $163,000 in 2027. We would just hold it there? We have projects that would allow us to bond in 2026 but this would still shift the projects. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson said scenario B is bonding in 2026 and bonding again in 2030 plus an increase to the levy with another increase in 2031. At that point we don't know what else we will be on the project list. She doesn't want to get in the position where we are bonding for every PMP. She is leaning toward scenario E, allowing for adjustments if we need it. Councilmember Holden said in scenario E we say we don't have to have a levy increase or just minor increases. We know we are going to add more projects. We know residents are going to want things. We know public safety costs are going to increase. For us to say the levy will hardly go up over the next 8-10 years isn't a reality. We know we are going to be in the hole in 3032 and 3034. There is no reason why we can't set the levy now to alleviate that, without paying a ton of money in interest. Councilmember Weber asked what percent increase to the PIR would it take for that? He thought 150%. That is essentially scenario A which would increase funding now to plan ahead. That still wouldn't get us there. Just increasing the levy will hurt now and still not get us where we need to be. He agrees with a single round of bonding. Scenario E looks good, it could look better at the end. We don't need a 0% increase on the PIR this year. We can do $50,000 and then $50,000 every year after. The initial presentation that showed we have 30 miles of roads and we're only funding it at 50% of what we need. He thought $1.5 million a year is what we need to be investing in the City to maintain that. We are only doing $750,000. Some of that comes from state aid but that's only $350,000 per year. We need to start building back the PIR. In 2034 we may be in a good position. Once we get Rice Creek Commons moving, those new residents will be helping to pay down those bonds. He isn't suggesting that as a crutch, but it is the goal of the City to get Rice Creek Commons underway. Councilmember Holden said looking at what Rice Creek Commons is going to cost us, we're in the hole. The money we get from Rice Creek Commons has to go back into Rice Creek Commons. The money from the current Arden Hills will have to go into Rice Creek. Councilmember Weber asked in what timeframe. Mayor Grant said it is true that the City will get revenue out of Rice Creek Commons. The City will also incur costs out of Rice Creek Commons that we will have to cover. By the time you net them we hope they break even. He isn't sure we're there. It won't be a huge cash cow. Councilmember Monson asked if Councilmember Holden is advocating for scenario A. Councilmember Holden said she hasn't decided yet. She would probably go with Staff recommendation. Councilmember Monson asked when the PIR Fund had an increase in the levy. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 22 Finance Director Yang did a 10-year look back and it has been steady at $250,000. Councilmember Monson assumes there were transfers into it when we were over 50%, when it was available. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson would like to see a consistent investment in our roads so we don't have to have these transfers from the next year. She is open to scenario E with some money starting in 2026. She doesn't think $50,000 per year from 2027 on, would be sufficient for scenario E. We have the increase of $163,000 where we're over $300,000. She doesn't know if we would have to do $350,000 or $400,000 in future years. Councilmember Weber said the debt service is built in. Councilmember Monson said she interpreted Councilmember Weber's comment to suggest adding $50,000 a year, per year. Councilmember Weber said increasing it $50,000. Councilmember Monson said in 2027 it would be $163,000. In 2028 it would be increased by $50,000. Councilmember Rousseau asked if the PIR is what we are looking at for the Park Master Plan. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson outlined it's at $250,000 now. This would be an increase of $163,000, totaling $413,000. She stated Councilmember Weber is recommending we go to $463,000 in 2028 and $513,000 in 2029. Councilmember Weber said it would be $326,000, instead of the $250,000. Then $512,000. That's a huge increase. That includes the debt service. Councilmember Monson isn't following that. Finance Director Yang said it sounds like Councilmember Weber is suggesting starting the $50,000 in 2026. So it would start at $300,000. Councilmember Weber confirmed. He said then add the $162,000, getting to $462,000 and doesn't include the $50,000 we add in 2027 to continue building the PIR. That is a giant jump. Maybe we leave it out of 2027. He recognized that going from $250,000 to $412,000 is a big jump but he would rather get a head start. Finance Directory Yang can look at different scenarios. Councilmember Monson said maybe we want to start earlier and not have a $163,000 jump. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 23 Finance Director Yang said Council would like to see a more leveled debt service. Mayor Grant asked if Lake Valentine Road is included with any of the project years. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the top scenario is in 2030. The scenarios where the PMP is pushed, it would be in 2032. Mayor Grant asked when it was originally proposed, last time. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said there wasn't a clear schedule before he started. Mayor Grant thought it was proposed for 2024. It never did get done. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. We tried large area patching and the chip seal. Mayor Grant asked if there were further questions. He asked Councilmember Rousseau what her request was. Councilmember Rousseau wanted to see a scenario E but including bonding only for the Highway 10 Trail. Councilmember Weber asked if that was still pushing the PMPs. Councilmember Rousseau would like to see it both ways, if possible. Finance Director Yang confirmed she can do that. Councilmember Rousseau asked when the deadline was for the preliminary levy. Finance Director Yang said by the end of September. Councilmember Holden said there is $8,000 for Park and Rec To Go program. There weren't a lot of attendees and the places they are going is in the wealthier communities. She has a problem with that. She understands it hasn't worked in the mobile home community but we should considers ways to make it work at Arden Manor. There are a ton of kids in the town houses. We go to Cummings, which is surrounded by the wealthy community and Hazelnut. She doesn't understand spending $8,000 on a program that isn't hitting the communities that need it. Councilmember Rousseau said it would be helpful if Staff provided a breakdown of why those parks were chosen. With Arden Manor there were conversations about sharing the flyers in other languages. A lot of the kids that came by didn't have a waiver signed. We are early in the Park Master Plan but Cummings and Hazelnut have been identified by the consultants as community parks vs. neighborhood parks. She would be interested to see what thoughts are for next year, regarding those. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said Recreation Supervisor Johnson was going to have an after action report completed soon and will share in the Admin Update. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 24 Councilmember Holden said we didn't have the participation so she is worried that we aren't reaching a population that we need to reach. She doesn't view Cummings as a community park. Most people have to drive to Cummings. Councilmember Monson said that is what Councilmember Rousseau meant by a community park vs. a neighborhood park. Councilmember Holden thinks Cummings is highly utilized by people who live in that area. Same as Hazelnut is mostly utilized by people in that area. That what makes it a neighborhood park. Councilmember Rousseau said it is because of the size. We have the community picnic at Cummings. The Penny Carnival is held at Perry vs. one of the smaller neighborhood parks. Councilmember Holden said it's because of the pavilions, more than anything is why those events are there. Mayor Grant said Council will discuss a couple more items and then recess and return after the regular meeting. Finance Director Yang wanted to recap the different scenarios to ensure she is getting Council all the numbers they requested. She will look at scenario E with some level of an annual levy increase, without shifting projects. She will look at scenario E with annual levy increase and include shifting the projects. She will look at bonding for Old Highway 10 Trail in 2026, without project shifting and look at bonding with shifting the projects. Councilmember Monson said there was a lot of conversation about scenarios D and E. She asked if Councilmember Holden and Mayor Grant will get the information they are looking for with the scenarios Finance Director Yang outlined. Councilmember Holden thinks if we are going to bond, she only wants to do it once. She said it costs us so much money to bond. The interest rates change and then you can't fix it. We have more than enough money for the Highway 10 trail. We have Lake Johanna Trail coming up. We don't know what's going to happen with that one. Councilmember Monson believed scenario E is just a single bond. Staff confirmed. Mayor Grant said he is in favor of scenario D. He doesn't want to see us in an interest rate scenario with bonds going out 20 years. All we are doing is jacking the levy for 20 years. He doesn't want to put us in that situation. There will be opportunities for bonding. He doesn't think we want to do it in 2026. We may take a look at in in 2027-28. He agrees with Councilmember Weber that we should put some PIR money into the levy. He would like to see us get around that because the interest will hurt us. Councilmember Holden said we know the interest rates are going to drop significantly. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 25 Mayor Grant asked if we know that. Councilmember Holden said they are. Because when Paul retires we know the interest rates will go down. If you can't see that writing on the wall, you're an idiot. The longer we wait to bond, the better the interest rates will be. Mayor Grant agrees. That is why he said he doesn't think we should bond now. He is leery to jump in now and mortgage our future for 20 years. Things are happening with TCAAP. We don't know where the County will land on Lake Johanna Blvd. They had a design. Will they hold to that? Will they scale it back? They may choose a different project. There where three projects being considered. He doesn't know what happened to the other two and he doesn't know if Staff knows. Councilmember Holden said one of them is being done. Mayor Grant said then there are two of them and he isn't sure what the County's appetite is. Councilmember Monson asked if there is an advantage to bonding the PMP in 2026 vs. 2028. Finance Director Yang said it just pushes out the Fund Balance. If we bond in 2026, we have a little more Fund Balance capacity. If we wait until 2028, we will drive down the Fund Balance before we get the cash from the bond to come in. Councilmember Monson asked if we would just need a levy to balance that dip. Finance Director Yang said we could. Or we could continue to utilize Fund Balance until we get to 2028 when we would have to increase the levy to fund that debt service. Councilmember Monson summarized that the advantage of a 2026 bond is that we would attack the problem now and we smooth the levy. Would we keep the levy lower, if we wait until 2028? Finance Director Yang said we can increase the levy and build up a reserve until we get to 2028. There are various options. If we bond in 2026 that means we are increasing our overall Fund Balance capacity. Councilmember Monson is interested to know the value of waiting the two years and how that will hit the levy. Councilmember Holden said even at 1 % interest rate will make a big difference in our debt service. Discussion ensued recapping all the different scenarios Council discussed and would like to see. Councilmember Weber said he would like to see all of that but he is in favor of solving this problem now. This is a clear problem that is coming at us, head on. He wants to attack it, head on. Now. Mayor Grant would like to see each of the years, the roads and projects and what their current PCI ratings are. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 26 Staff will bring that back. Mayor Grant asked if the software is able to project where we will be at an overall PCI rating in each year? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. That is one of the slides he created for State of the City. He will share that. Council recessed the work session at 6:55 pm. Council reconvened the work session at 7:18 pm. Finance Director Yang said she will discuss the Public Safety Capital Fund. Changes were made to the Public Safety Capital Equipment Fund, based on the latest preliminary estimates from the Lake Johanna Fire Department. The changes include the addition of a command vehicle replacement in 2031 and 2033, an engine ladder replacement in 2032. The levy reserve bank and corresponding transfers to the general fund is based on nine new FTEs vs. the six that were in the July 28 preliminary budget. Finance Director Yang said council is aware that the Safer Grant will discontinue starting in 2027. Contract Cities will need to fund the new positions. In 2024, the City decided to raise the levy in the Public Safety Capital Fund to build up a reserve for this. At that time we knew there were only six FTEs. The reserve build up was agreed upon by Council in order to lower the impact of the annual levy increases. She outlined, in the packet, where it shows what the annual levy increases are based on, with the six and nine FTEs. An additional $12,000 will be needed in 2026 and varying amounts thereafter, should the reserve build up method be agreed upon to fund it. Finance Director Yang programmed the incremental $12,000 at the levy increase in the proposed budget. The City can consider other options. We could utilize excess franchise fees to cover, increase electric franchise fees, implement a gas franchise fee rate, or a combination of a levy increase and utilizing those excess franchise fees. Councilmember Holden said we haven't agreed to the nine FTEs. Councilmember Monson asked if this would be a placeholder for nine FTEs. In the event it stays at six it may decrease. Finance Director Yang said six is the agreed upon number but the proposed amount includes the nine. Councilmember Monson asked if Staff needs direction on if we want to do the $12,000 vs. franchise fees. Finance Director Yang said these are options the City Council can consider. The PIR Fund has a proposed levy of $250,000. That is unchanged from 2025. Staff is recommending scenario D which would shift PMP projects and increase the levy by $50,000 in 2027, with that increase ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 27 being applied annually, thereafter. She asked which changes, if any, Staff should assume based on the scenarios presented. She will run the requested scenarios. Finance Director Yang said the Public Safety Capital Equipment Fund assumes a $52,000 levy increase in 2026 and additional increases in subsequent years, thereafter to cover the City's share of nine FTEs. She asked what changes, if any, Staff should assume. Councilmember Rousseau thinks it needs to go into the levy. She knows we discussed the franchise fees going strictly toward the Fire Department but she feels there should be a separation that is clear that when we have a double digit levy, half of it comes from Public Safety. That may be a communication thing in the future. Councilmember Holden asked how much the franchise fees would have to be increased by? Finance Director Yang doesn't have that number today. She has asked Xcel Energy and she will follow up. Councilmember Holden asked how much we are raising with the franchise fees now, annually? Finance Director Yang said $435,000. Councilmember Holden said that wouldn't really be that much. Councilmember Monson said it isn't clear that we would have to raise the fees. Wouldn't we just use the excess. She asked where the excess between the bond and the $435,000 is allocated in the budget. Finance Director Yang said it is in the Public Safety Capital Equipment Fund. Councilmember Monson asked how it's being applied. Finance Director Yang said it isn't being applied anywhere. It is just sitting there until debt service comes in 2027. It will be used to pay that debt service. Councilmember Monson said we could use that for the extra $12,000. Finance Director Yang confirmed the excess money could be used. Councilmember Monson said that is limited in terms of impact, and we will still have the money in 2027 for the debt service. Finance Director Yang confirmed. She said the difference between using excess franchise fees and increasing the levy incrementally, is that you are increasing that base. That grows the cumulative levy balance where the franchise fee is a fixed amount annually. Councilmember Weber asked if the beginning year balance is the Public Safety Fund. It refers to a Fund Balance. That can't be the Public Safety Fund because it would include an additional $435,000 in contributions. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 28 Finance Director Yang said the page he is referring to is the reserve build up. That's included in the two line items that are highlighted in red. That's where we see the levy increase, annually, based on that reserve build up. The transfer to the General Fund line item is what we would transfer annually to fund those incremental FTEs. Councilmember Weber said most people are concerned about the percentage increase in the levy every year. It's important, when looking at a steep increase to do something to the levy. The next year, if it happens again, the percentage increase doesn't look as steep. That's why our levy looks so large. Historically they haven't been raised with inflation. He thinks the money should come out of a levy increase. He just doesn't know how that fits into the overall scheme. Councilmember Holden said we have always had a 5-10 year budget in front of us. We have looked ahead. We paid cash for a lot of things. To imply we haven't done stuff in the past, isn't the way it happened in the real world. She said we keep talking about increasing the Fund Balance so we have more and more money. How much money do we all want? When do we get to the point where Arden Manor or the townhouses can't afford it? We all have professional jobs and spouses that have professional jobs and it's easy for us to eat a couple hundred by the time we get the tax statement from Ramsey. Is increasing the Fund Balance our main goal so we have unlimited money? Finance Director Yang said it is based upon project expenditures that are set today, it's important that we maintain a positive Fund Balance. If we see dips in Fund Balance, we want to level it or increase it for future project expenditures to happen. It is an annual exercise we have to go through to make sure we are financially stable, long-term. Mayor Grant said we plan a 5-year CIP. We take a look at inflation. Staff goes and talks amongst themselves. We go through this every year. It's not like we are failing to plan. Finance Director Yang has done countless iterations of various financing strategies. She has worked with police, fire and the County to put this together so we can digest it. A year from now we'll be back here. Staff will have done another year in the CIP. We always keep looking at it and planning. We do account for inflation. He is thankful for all the hard work that Staff does. He won't insinuate that they haven't done any planning. Councilmember Monson asked if Councilmember Holden knows the Fire Boards sense on the additional three FTEs. They got the six, partially because they got the Safer Grant. That was after they got a $2 million ladder truck. They got a new fire station. She understands there was approval to order another ladder truck. Now they are asking for another three FTEs. How much does this fire department need in such a short period of time? Councilmember Holden said we can be one vote against the proposed FTEs. Another city is thinking about it but they don't know how to fund it. The bottom line is they want a fire department that is 100% paid people. No volunteers, no part time staff. They want a full time fire department. Councilmember Monson thinks this is too much, at once. We are doing our best to balance it, but it's a lot. She would love to see that spread out a bit. She understands we have one vote and Shoreview has two. The rest are fire fighters. They aren't going to vote against the chief s budget. She would like to see them push some of this out. She doesn't have a strong opinion on if it is ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 29 funded by the levy vs. the franchise fee. With the franchise fee you are getting it but it doesn't grow to cover increases. Finance Director Yang said with the levy you would grow your cumulative balance. It is making sure you are building up that reserve and making sure there is less impact to the taxpayers. The franchise fees are just one annual revenue. It doesn't grow. Councilmember Holden said it can grow. Finance Director Yang said it can grow, if we decide that we want to grow it. Mayor Grant said the remodel of the fire station on County Road I isn't included. He thinks it is imperative to deliver the message that it shouldn't grow this quickly. Councilmember Holden said the message has been received by them, from her. Finance Director Yang wanted to discuss the Tree Trust. Due to the strong demand and positive feedback from residents around the 2025 Tree Trust partnership pilot program, Tree Trust has asked the City to continue its tree sale partnership. That promotes environmental sustainability. The 2026 is estimated to be $6,750. She asked if Council is interested in continuing this partnership. If so, should this come from the Tree Preservation and Landscaping Fund. Councilmember Holden asked what the $6,750 pays for. Does it subsidize the price of the trees? She thought they were expensive trees with no warranty. People can go buy a tree at a different area. She would rather put trees in the parks, rather than in individual homes. Councilmember Weber got one of the trees. He recently planted a line of trees along his yard. He bought them at auction. They cost four or five times as much as the one he bought from the Trust. It is a little smaller than the other trees he purchased but it would have been at least double or triple in price. He thinks it is a great value for residents. Councilmember Rousseau said Anne Hall surveyed people. She said our residents were very happy with this program. She thinks this should be included in the budget and have Staff prepared to help support that, if they can. The Arden Hills Foundation may be willing to cover some of that, as well. Councilmember Monson thinks the dollar amount is minor and it is supporting our tree canopy in the City. She thinks the amount is minor compared to the benefit. She is surprised that it is being called out. She asked if that is because it's new. Finance Director Yang confirmed. It was a pilot program in 2025. Councilmember Monson asked what the limit is that City Administrator Jagoe can approve. City Administrator Jagoe replied $10,000. Councilmember Monson said she thinks this is such a small amount of money. She supports moving forward with it. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 30 Councilmember Holden agrees it is a small amount of money. Park and Go is $8,000. We're almost to a levy point by the time we're done with all the little amounts of money. People can afford trees in our community. It gets to the point where we need to subsidize the people who can't afford it. There aren't many trees in Arden Manor. Those people can't plant trees. Maybe it should be up to the City to start putting more trees elsewhere rather than subsidizing private citizens to do it. Mayor Grant said it is a small amount. We were talking about bonding for millions of dollars and now we're stuck on $6,800. It makes a good statement about tree preservation. He isn't sure what a tree costs and doesn't know if this is a good value or not. For the City it's $6,750. Councilmember Weber said he paid $150 for the trees in his yard vs. $45 for the one from the Tree Trust. Mayor Grant asked how many people purchased trees. City Administrator Jagoe said there were 50 10-gallon trees. Those usually retail for $160-$300 depending on the type of tree. Cost to residents was $45 per tree. Tree Trust subsidized the first year of the program with $5,000. They are proposing 50 to 75 trees this year. Finance Director Yang asked if there are any other assumptions or changes Council would like to see. Councilmember Holden asked about the 751h Anniversary. Councilmember Monson said based on the discussion, it won't be that much money. Councilmember Holden said she has no idea what it will cost. Councilmember Monson said what she had in her mind and then said we're done. Councilmember Monson said she believes she summarized what she heard from everyone. She assumes it will be under $20,000. Councilmember Holden said she has talked to businesses and they are happy to help out. Councilmember Weber asked how much money we have committed from the Gateway fund. City Administrator Jagoe thought it was about $10,000. Mayor Grant said we can carry over 4% of the $20,000 from 2025. Councilmember Rousseau said it can only be spent on marketing. City Administrator Jagoe said Council earmarked $10,000 to the ice swim event and she has heard that event will not be held in 2026. She will bring this discussion back to the September work session to decide how we want to reallocate those funds. Councilmember Holden said it should go to the 75t' Anniversary. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 31 Councilmember Rousseau asked about purchasing from Northern Soda. Would that be considered advertising for the local area? Does it have to be swag? Mayor Grant believes it has to be advertising but he will take it back to the Gateway director. Councilmember Rousseau asked if we want to set something aside to build in for the Park Master Plan. Or is that a conversation for next year and we look at the park dedication fees for the development at North Heights? Councilmember Holden said we should look at it next year. Part of the park plan will include the trails that we already have lined up. Mayor Grant said there was a request for a trail segment on New Brighton Road, from County Road E2, down to the park. That would be a safe route to school. Councilmember Monson is open to waiting on the parks until the plan is finalized. She is also fine with investing a small amount to show our commitment. Councilmember Rousseau suggested a place holder of $10,000 so next year we can have the discussion on if we should continue. Councilmember Holden said she would like to put some money aside for a community survey. That's more important. We haven't even seen the park survey to see what people want. If we're going to start putting money into little pots, she has a whole list of them. Mayor Grant said we need to be careful. Once we start creating a bunch of pots then we've got a levy point. Councilmember Rousseau would like $20,000 for Morris Leatherman Company or something. We can address it in two years if we are following the strategic plan that we're starting to build out. Councilmember Weber agrees. The response to the question of how much money do we need is enough to buy the things we need to buy and hopefully a little more for the things that we want. We have wants and needs. He supports $10,000 to show a commitment toward the future of the Park Master Plan. Finance Director Yang asked if it should be $10,000 per year, going forward, or just in 2025. Mayor Grant asked if there was consensus in Council. He heard two in favor of $10,000. Councilmember Monson is fine with $10,000. When we get to the levy points and we need to cut $10,000 she will maybe look here for the space to do that. Mayor Grant said $10,000. He asked Staff to move on, with just 12 minutes left before 8:00. Finance Director Yang said she is happy to walk through the presentation. She is also open to fast forward to the main General Fund levy discussion. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 32 Councilmember Weber said we are probably going to be revisiting this. We won't get through it in 12 minutes. He asked for the high-level outline so Council can begin to digest it. Finance Director Yang shared the slide that shows the City-wide tax levy assumptions as it is today. She walked through the included changes which amount to $742,866, or a 12.32% levy increase. Based on the CIP levy increase of $152,000, that would be an additional 2.52%. That would mean a total levy increase of $894,866 at 14.85%. This provides a leveled increase on the revenue side and the expenditures. It doesn't account for the underfunded balance from the 2025 budget. We passed a budget deficit in 2025 of $122,009 that will continue to sit there. If we want to fund and fully balance the budget, we would add that amount which would get us to a total balanced levy of $1,016,878 , or a 16.87% levy increase. Councilmember Monson said this does not include the $50,000 increase in the PIR fund that was discussed earlier. Finance Director Yang said that is not included. Councilmember Monson said any changes we make will be on top of this. She is looking at the maintenance worker position. She asked how much that is of the $48,000. She has an appetite to push that. Finance Director Yang said the maintenance worker is $50,000. It is funded 45% through the General Fund and 55% from the Enterprise Fund. Councilmember Monson said the $48,000 would go down. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson would like to see what it looks like when leaving the Lead position in there but without the maintenance worker. Her final comment is she is aware we underfunded $122,000, she asked if we will come out ahead on revenue. Finance Director Yang said for 2025 we are looking good in terms of planning cases and permit revenue. We are looking better. It is hard to say because we're still five months until the end of the year. City Administrator Jagoe said we had some personnel savings, too. Mayor Grant asked if we put any large buildings into the 2025 plan. Finance Director Yang indicated we did not. Mayor Grant said we lost some of the revenue because we lost our inspectors. Councilmember Holden said the Rec to Go program playground leads are funded from something else. She asked if we are double counting them in the $8,000. Or are we hiring more? ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 33 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said no. This is a new program that wasn't budgeted last year. If we move forward with that program we need to budget for that amount of staff. Councilmember Holden said we have programs at Hazelnut when they go there. So there will be two program leads? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen we need one to two staff, in addition to what the other programs have. The other programs are fully staffed. This is a new program that needs staff. Councilmember Holden asked if we are hiring three people. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen he said it's one to two staff, depending on site. Councilmember Holden asked if the Rec Assistant is paid out of a different budget. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen that's the person. Councilmember Holden said there is the one to two playground leads. That's two more people. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen that is what is required to support this program. In order to have this program, this is what we need. Councilmember Holden said they aren't funded anywhere else. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen no. This is for this program only. Mayor Grant agrees with Councilmember Monson. He can understand the lead position but the maintenance worker is something he would cut in a tight budget year. It looks like $48,366, the lead is $8,000. You're probably burdening the General Fund by $40,000 and the Enterprise Fund by $40,000. That's $80,000 worth of budget. Our guys are doing just fine. The leads are making things run smoother, now is not the time to add another maintenance worker. Finance Director Yang said she can bring back the maintenance worker starting in the second quarter. Councilmember Monson was thinking it wouldn't be in 2026. Mayor Grant agreed. Councilmember Rousseau said she is not in favor of that. She asked if Councilmember Holden is in favor of it. Councilmember Weber said he isn't in favor of it. Councilmember Holden said she has always been in favor of holding it back. We just added the lead. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 34 Mayor Grant said there are three people who want to hold off on the maintenance worker in 2026. Councilmember Weber asked if that was contingent on where the levy increase falls. Councilmember Monson said she would like to see the impact on the levy. She also needs to see the PIR Fund addition into the levy. It looks like $60,000 is a levy point. If we drop $40,000 that's almost a levy point. But then we're adding another $50,000 for the PIR Fund. She would rather add money into the PIR Fund than add a public works maintenance worker. She thinks we can probably wait another year. There won't ever be a good time. She is open to see what it looks like adding it halfway through the year. In general, she would like to push it out of 2026 for the cost. Mayor Grant said when Ramsey County Sheriff increase their budget, we don't have a say. That is what it is. Same thing goes for Lake Johanna Fire Department. There's nothing we can do about it. There are a number of items in the budget that we can't trim back. He thinks we have a good crew. We are doing okay. One maintenance worker can be taken out of the equation and save the money. He asked if anyone had any other ideas on how to keep the levy down. He doesn't see another way to make the adjustment. Councilmember Weber agreed it is sticker shock. It is hard to swallow. Mayor Grant said some residents can pay that, but consistent large levy increases may be an issue for residents in some parts of town. He hopes we can come closer to being balanced this year. Councilmember Weber asked if Staff has anything else to share. Finance Director Yang summarized the proposed budget includes a 3% COLA, 10% health insurance, 4% dental insurance increases. Councilmember Holden thinks it should be higher than 10%. She is hearing a lot of them are going up by 18% and we're a small group. She thinks it should be at least 15%. City Administrator Jagoe said 10% is typically what is programmed in, at this stage, when we don't have the number yet. Mayor Grant asked what the increase was last year. Finance Director Yang said 16%. City Administrator Jagoe added we absorbed some of with the increase in the family coverage to employees. We offset some of that. Mayor Grant is good with 15%. Councilmember Weber is okay with 15%, as well. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 35 Councilmember Holden said Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen was going to bring back what City Hall maintenance and repairs could be done by Staff. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said there is nothing in 2026 that would affect this. City Administrator Jagoe said Staff will go through the reserve study and see what we can program in for future. Mayor Grant said this is on the revenue side. Councilmember Rousseau asked about the building at the federal property, in regards to revenue. Are they putting in a huge addition? City Administrator Jagoe said that is this year. Councilmember Holden said that is not significant. We won't get the money from that anyway. City Administrator Jagoe said we will get the permit. Councilmember Holden said we have to hire someone outside to do that. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. We have to use Rum River because of the state delegation. Councilmember Monson said the field house that we thought would be a big windfall is not any more. Mayor Grant never thought it was a windfall. Councilmember Monson thought there was discussion that it will be a great revenue source. Councilmember Holden wanted it added in and we decided not to. Mayor Grant said we didn't have anyone with state delegation. We haven't for years. Councilmember Monson said we thought we would get some money with it. Now that we don't have a state certified building inspector we have to pay a third party, so it's canceling out the benefit. City Administrator Jagoe said we get a smaller portion. It will be about 15% of the permit revenue. Councilmember Monson said there are no other buildings planned. City Administrator Jagoe said not for 2026. We saw North Heights, the field house, Outlot A all in the 2025 year. Councilmember Rousseau said Micro Control was about $80,000 in permits. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. Pace could be an option for 2026. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 36 Mayor Grant asked if there is a need for an additional work session needed for further discussion about the preliminary levy increase before the end of September. Councilmember Rousseau confirmed. There are some scenarios that will come back. C. Agenda Planning Mayor Grant said we should discuss agenda planning. Councilmember Monson said she doesn't have any comments about the September 8 work session. The special one that Mayor Grant wants is the strategic session. Mayor Grant is tossing out to Council that the Buy Nothing Clean Up Day said Staff recommendation and the majority of Council was that Staff can just do that. Councilmember Holden asked for clarification that any of the items on the list that have staff recommendations are items that Council can vote that Staff complete? Mayor Grant doesn't think that. He thinks Staff could do the Buy Nothing Clean Up Day and not have to bring it back. Other items should be brought back to Council. We want Staff to go out and come up with a recommendation so we aren't reinventing the wheel at a work session. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said September 22 is the meeting that Ramsey County wants to talk about Lake Johanna Blvd. Trail and likely the Old Highway 10 Trail. Council agreed Staff can move forward with the Buy Nothing Clean Up Day and not bring it back. Councilmember Weber clarified that when he said Staff recommendation, he expected that Staff will develop it and bring it as a consent item. Otherwise, what's the point? If we're bringing them back for another work session, why are we designating them? He expects a recommendation from Staff on everything. If they propose something there should be some recommendation to guide council. This is more than that. This is putting it in Staff s court. These are the things Staff should take care of. That's what he was thinking when he did his rating. Mayor Grant asked Council if Staff recommendation meant bring it back to a work session or to the bench. Councilmember Holden said if an energy audit will cost $20,000 then it needs to come back to a work session. Some of them are non -committal. She doesn't care about volunteer recognition. We always sent thank you notes. Councilmember Monson said she rated them thinking Staff would bring them back on Consent Agenda. That won't work for everything on this list. The encroachment discussion won't be just a staff recommendation. The list isn't that clean. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — AUGUST 25, 2025 37 Councilmember Weber said there may have been a different interpretation of what Staff recommendation means so Council should re -rate the list. Mayor Grant said Staff recommendation can include if they bring it to a work session or to consent. Council agreed. 4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES Councilmember Monson said after the last meeting about State of the City she thinks after this event Staff can provide a run-down to Council regarding how it went with a list of recommendations, primarily about locking down an annual date, time and location. Maybe it's a certain Saturday of a certain month. We spend so much time talking about it, it seems like it can be an administrative thing that can be locked down. She would recommend that there be a rotation of topics and the Councilmember that presents it. We just rotate every year so there doesn't need to be discussion on who is presenting what topic. She would like Staff to bring that back so it's easy and we don't spend so much time on it. Councilmember Holden said we have to remember timing during election years. It's sensitive and we want to make sure people aren't over represented. If we have it in February or March, fine. Councilmember Rousseau would prefer for Council to pick which topics we want to talk about. Some have more excitement and interest about some topics. Then flip a coin if there is conflict. Councilmember Monson just wants there to be a set way so we aren't battling every year. Mayor Grant said Council can let Staff know what topic they are interested in. You may or may not get it. Staff will just line it up and rotate it. Councilmember Holden said the rotation is a good idea. There is something exciting in each of the topics. Councilmember Monson added it's a chance for Council to work with different Staff members. She didn't mean this to be a big discussion. She would like to see Staff analyze it after this year's event and send something back with a recommendation on how it will work in future. Mayor Grant agrees we took up too much time discussing it this year. ADJOURN Mayor G9�/ ournedthe City Council Work Session meeting at 8:14 p.m. Je stling David Grant Deputy Clerk Mayor