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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-28-25 SWS Request for Special City Council Work Session Some members may be participating in this meeting by interactive technology/remotely A special meeting may be called by the Mayor or by any two Councilmembers. Reason for meeting: 1. Public Inquiries/Informational 2. Response to Public Inquiries 3. Agenda Items A. Public Works Design Manual – Tree Species B. Old Snelling Avenue Speed Limit Discussion C. 2026-2030 CIP Discussion D. Agenda Planning 4. Council/Staff Comments Adjourn Requested Date: 07/28/2025 Requested time: 5:00 pm Open meeting X Closed meeting Signature of person(s) making request: 07/24/2025 Mayor or Council Member Date / / Council Member Date -This section to be completed by City staff- Date received: 07/24/2025 Date meeting to be held: 07/28/2025 Time of meeting: 5:00 pm Location: City Hall All necessary postings and notices have been completed. 07/24/2025 Signature of City Clerk Date City of Arden Hills ▪1245 West Highway 96 ▪ Arden Hills Minnesota 55112 Phone 651.792.7800 ▪ Fax 651.634.5137 ▪ www.cityofardenhills.org lt ,-AI�EN HILLS Approved: August 25, 2025 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION JULY 28, 2025 5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Grant called to order the Special City Council Work Session meeting at 5:00 p.m. Present: Mayor David Grant; Councilmembers Brenda Holden, Tena Monson, and Kurt Weber Absent: Councilmember Emily Rousseau (Excused) Also present: City Administrator Jessica Jagoe; Public Works Director/City Engineer David Swearingen; Finance Director Joua Yang and Assistant to the City Administrator/City Clerk Julie Hanson Councilmember Holden requested that Item C. 2026-2030 CIP Discussion be moved to Item B. Mayor Grant said Work Session agendas can be rearranged, but nothing can be added. The order of the topics was changed, as requested. 1. PUBLIC INQUIRIES/INFORMATIONAL Gregg Larson, 3377 Snelling Avenue, Arden Hills — He wanted to discuss the speed limit on Snelling Avenue South at the roundabout. He can't think of any good reason why we would want to change the speed limit on South Snelling Avenue. There is no evidence that adjoining neighborhoods want this. There has been no attempt to gauge resident views. He has heard that drivers find it difficult to adhere to the 25 mph speed limit. He said other drivers do it. That isn't a justification to change the limit. Raising speed limit won't increase safety. It will just reduce the number of drivers violating the law. He has heard that a 25 mph speed limit is inconsistent with other residential streets in Arden Hills. The current city-wide speed limit is 25 mph on most residential streets. The closest Snelling comparison is Lake Valentine Road, east and west of Mounds View high school. That is 25 mph and lower at the high school. He has heard that the MnDOT standard for street speed evaluation should determine the speed limit. He shared statistics provided in the agenda packet and said based on the data the MnDOT standard would unwisely raise the speed limit to 40 mph. It fails to address unique design characteristics, including the narrow lane widths and no shoulders. The standard doesn't take adjoining neighborhoods into account. Pedestrians on the east have to cross the road to reach the trail. The 9 ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 2 intersecting streets and 19 driveway access aren't considered by the standard. There are no cross walks, flush medians or protected turn lanes on the roadway south of the roundabout and that's not considered in the standard. There aren't any good reasons to increase the limit. Doing so will result in less safety and a higher amount of drivers driving faster on a road that was designed for lower speeds. 2. RESPONSE TO PUBLIC INQUIRIES None. 3. AGENDA ITEMS A. Public Works Design Manual — Tree Species Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen explained that this is a procedural item. The Public Works Design Manual didn't outline what we accept as "street trees". He worked with Bolton & Menk to determine a selection of street trees. The list from Bolton & Menk was more extensive than what we currently have in the right-of-way code. He said the Public Works Design Manual is meant to be a live document that can change. He is asking for Council direction to move forward with the approach to include that list in the manual. He is also bringing the current City Code 360.32 forward to contain language referencing the live document that Staff will manage. He stood for questions. Councilmember Weber said roadway type associated with species corelates with salt tolerance. The less tolerant trees should be restricted to City streets with less salt use. Mayor Grant said he noticed that Elm is on the list. He asked why that is a good choice, considering Dutch Elm disease. Anna Springer of Bolton & Menk said Dutch Elm spread through the country in the 1970s. Minnesota had one of the more progressive responses to the disease. Experts at the University of Minnesota and in the private tree care industry stepped up to study the disease. The U of M continues to be a leader in the study of Elm trees especially in developing disease resistant varieties. There are trees with natural resistance to Dutch Elm disease and we can bring in Asiatic Elm hybrids that are resistant. They've done a lot of research on the maintenance level required for those species. Asiatic Elms often have poor structure and require a lot of pruning to keep them healthy. They are susceptible to failure during wind events. The U of M has guidance on which trees are wind resistant and need less maintenance. Those are the Elms that are included on this list. Mayor Grant asked if she consulted with the U of M and followed their recommendations. Anna Springer said it wasn't in consultation with them, but she is a certified arborist, and she keeps up on the trainings. Councilmember Holden noted they used to plant the same type of tree together. Now it's a variety. She wondered if that helps maintenance people. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 3 Anna Springer said the list is organized by family, genus and species. The Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board developed an approach to forest management that consists of a five, ten, twenty rule. The guideline now, to avoid mass casualty, is that you don't want your urban forest to have more than 20% from the same family, not more than 10% from the same genus and not more than 5% from the same species. Councilmember Holden was asking about maintenance. It was easier when they were the same. You were able to trim them at the same time. If there is a Dogwood, an Elm and a Crabapple Tree, will it be a lot more maintenance if we meet that criteria? Anna Springer said the best practice it to trim trees in the dormant season. Councilmember Holden asked if it will create more work if they are different trees. Anna Springer said no. She said the list excludes high maintenance trees. Councilmember Monson supports changing the language to reflect the design manual rather than listing the trees in the ordinance. She supports relying on the consultant to help get up date and organized. She supports relying on Staff to decide what to plant based on the location. Mayor Grant agreed. He directed Staff to continue on that path. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he received a request from PTRC and some Councilmembers to complete some tree canopy evaluations. Anna Springer put together some initiatives for a city-wide tree inventory. The current inventory only includes Ash and Oak trees because they are on a treatment cycle. He is seeking Council input if there is interest in an Urban Forest Management Plan and the Tree Canopy Assessment initiatives. Councilmember Monson would like to see what those initiatives would cost, including employee resource requirements. Councilmember Holden agrees. It will depend on the cost. There isn't going to be much grant money. It may be better to schedule them over a couple of years. Mayor Grant is interested in seeing the proposals but also wonders what the benefit of doing this is. There should be some benefit on the other side, to justify the cost. He said Staff should continue with the design manual and bring those initiatives with cost and purpose back for consideration. B. 2026-2030 CIP Discussion Finance Director Yang said this discussion is a continuation of the July 14 Special Work Session discussion regarding the Preliminary 2026-2030 Capital Improvement Project (CIP) Plan. Changes have been made and are laid out in the memo. She said Public Works Superintendent Jeff Frid is available to field questions related to equipment. She is happy to answer any questions or move to Council discussion. Mayor Grant said we need to go through the categories that increased to provide structure for the discussion. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 4 Finance Director Yang outlined the changes since the July 14 Special Work Session. The PIR fund was increased by $1.423 million. This was for park development and residential dedication fees from Trident Development. That will be a one time revenue source and will go towards park development and trail projects. There is a proposed tax levy of $600,000 in the PIR for 2026 and forward. That is an annual increase of $350,000. This will ensure there is appropriate funding to meet future project expenditures into 2029. Finance Director Yang said the Lake Johanna Boulevard Trail project commencement date has been shifted from 2028 to 2029 after discussions with Ramsey County. Finance Director Yang said project expenditures for the Snelling Avenue North and Royal Oaks Trail improvements were increased by $90,000 due to updated cost estimates. Mayor Grant asked if that was $90,000 on top of the other $90,000. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said this was related to the church development. Mayor Grant asked if there were one or two $90,000 increases. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it's one. The total budgeted cost is $450,000. Mayor Grant just wanted to verify it was just one increase. Finance Director Yang said the EDA Fund was reduced by $90,000 for 2026 and will be increased the same amount in 2027. Finance Director Yang said the rates within the Utility Fund are set to 4% in 2026, 6% in 2027, and 3% in 2028 and thereafter. Finance Director Yang said those are the primary changes from the last work session. Councilmember Monson asked for confirmation that the numbers reflect that the Lake Johanna Trail will be in 2029. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson had questions regarding the fire department. She said the Public Safety Capital Equipment Fund shows property tax levy of $300,000 is being proposed for 2026 which includes $40,000 to go towards the reserve bank for the six new fire captains. She said those are the six that have already been hired and it's when the grant runs out. She asked how we landed on $40,000 and is it sufficient? Finance Director Yang confirmed that as of now, $40,000 is still sufficient for those six captains. Councilmember Monson asked if there is a big increase after the grant runs out. How much will we owe? ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 5 Finance Director Yang said that will occur in the 2027 budget. Councilmember Monson said she doesn't want us to save a little money but still have this big bump to cover the grant when it ends. She wants to make sure $40,000 is sufficient. If not, she has questions about the Franchise Fees. Finance Director Yang confirmed it's sufficient. She directed the Council to Attachment B. She showed where the $40,000 increase was incorporated. She showed the transfer to the General Fund under expenditures and uses. That transfer will be made annually. That will ensure we have enough fund balance to cover those six captains. Councilmember Monson said there is no transfer this year. We will levy $300,000 in 2026 so we can take $275,000 in 2027. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson said the Franchise Fees are $435,000 annually but our debt service is $270,000 annually but may see a bigger hit from some of the change orders, if they go over budget. We thought we would use that to prepay the bond. She is hearing there isn't a lot of value in the prepayment concept. Finance Director Yang said the prepayment can't occur until 9-10 years from 2025. At that time if we prepay it, we will see some savings. If there are other needs for those funds, it would be more beneficial for us to utilize those funds for other needs. Councilmember Monson asked how the additional funds are inputted right now. Finance Director Yang said it is sitting in the Public Safety Fund. Councilmember Monson asked for confirmation that the additional $150,000 is additional revenue going towards Public Safety. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson asked if we still need $300,000, even with the additional $150,000. Finance Director Yang confirmed, due to all of the different capital projects anticipated in the next several years. Councilmember Monson asked if that included a new fire truck and potentially new fire captains. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson asked Councilmember Holden what the approval process is for the ladder truck and the captains. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 6 Councilmember Holden said they just saw the budget for the first time last week. There hasn't been a vote on it yet. She is worried about getting Safer Grant funding this year and next year. We submitted the reimbursement application in March and just got that money. We're sending the second quarter of the Safer Grant. The Feds are restructuring and we don't know who the Safer Grant will be under. We have looked into the relief association to figure out why we're paying into that when they are at 150-160%. It's a legal requirement. We can't get that money back even though they're doing well in the relief association. North Oaks is worried about brown outs. You only get the information they give you. We are trying to get information about what happens during a brown out. The board has 2 Shoreview, 1 North Oaks, 1 Arden Hills' representatives and the rest are fire fighters. Councilmember Monson said her concern is they just got a brand new ladder truck that was just under $2 million. She doesn't understand the value in an additional ladder truck so soon after receiving the other one. She said their argument for new full time captains is premature considering they haven't finished the new station which is supposed to save response time. Councilmember Monson said there will be additional budget requests from the General Fund and Operations Fund. Do we have a sense of what that is? Finance Director Yang said she has the preliminary schedule. She pointed to Attachment D. Councilmember Monson asked if the 11 % includes the CIP. Finance Director Yang said it does not include the CIP. The 11.2% is just the General Fund. The CIP will be on top of that. Councilmember Monson wanted to know what the CIP percentage was at the moment. Finance Director Yang said there is a proposed $540,000 increase, which is a 9% increase Councilmember Monson asked if that included the Franchise Fees. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Monson said there was discussion around bonding during the last meeting. That discussion was for trails. Have we talked about bonding for the PMP, rather than trails? Is there a recommendation from Staff about pros and cons between those two options. Finance Director Yang said it was brought up but that was not discussed at the July 14 work session. City Council has the option to bond for just the special assessment portion or the City's portion along with the special assessments. The City can also bond for all capital projects. Councilmember Monson asked for Staff s recommendation for the best way to do it with all of those options. We have a $10 million bond per year requirement. We have TCAAP and the infrastructure when the spine road goes in, presumably in 2026. How are we ensuring we have the capabilities to do that, in addition to whatever other bonding we may want to pursue. Finance Director Yang said the $10 million is the limit per year. We will have to consider if we have enough bonding capacity, when TCAAP spine road comes in. Whatever is remaining is what ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 7 we can use to bond for other projects. She said based on the proposed Fund Balance, the bonding would be most beneficial in 2030 when we have the need. Councilmember Monson asked if we can bond to reduce the levy. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Bonding is there to provide a standard debt service schedule vs. levying for an entire project. We are leveling the tax impact vs. levying the whole thing. Councilmember Monson said that is what she is trying to understand. We need to dig deeper into the CIP and the General Fund requests to see where costs can be reduced. She would like to know if there are things that will help this year and in the next years to support us down the line. Mayor Grant said we are going to run a surplus of about $165,000 for the fire station annually. He expects the first change order to be sizable. According to Staff, the change order is going to be $775,000. Councilmember Monson thought there was a contingency built in so that won't be on top of the amount due, it will just eat into the contingency. Councilmember Holden said the contingency is $1.2 million. City Administrator Jagoe confirmed. She said with the change orders, to date, they are probably close to $1 million. Mayor Grant said we need to assume those are going to be coming and the contingency is there. We got hit by one big change order. The other items that happen during construction will still happen. We need to be prepared for $350,000 as our share above the contingency based on the fact that the first one was so sizable. The $165,000 is for the fire department. He wants to use that to cover any change orders above the contingency. He asked if the bonding requests covered the contingency. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Mayor Grant said we will need to bond for TCAAP. It will be big, like the fire station. One of the things we learned with the fire station is that a 15-year bonding cycle, $3 million costs about $4 million. If the answer is to bond, we want to look at the levy and ask how much we want to tax. As City Council we can decide which items are wants that can be pushed to another year. We don't want to just bond everything because that will be more expensive. Councilmember Holden wants to know how much the levy increase would be vs. the savings if we pay off the bonds. We need that comparison before we decide not to pay off the bond early. Finance Director Yang will do that analysis and bring it back. Mayor Grant said she did the analysis at one point. It wasn't as much as he thought it would be. Finance Director Yang doesn't think she looked at the levy impact with that analysis. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 8 Mayor Grant said it may not have looked at the levy. We simply looked at what the savings would be by prepaying the bond. It was not as much as he hoped. It's like a mortgage. Towards the end you are paying mostly principal and there isn't much savings. He said Finance Director Yang can do the comparison to the levy increase as Councilmember Holden requested. Councilmember Holden agrees with moving forward with some fire station things. We don't know how many people may sign up. We have a new shiny fire station and a lot more people may volunteer. She thinks there is savings in waiting until the station is done so we can see who comes on board to be a volunteer fire fighter before we start filling permanent positions. We said the Franchise Fees would be used for the fire department so anything else would be a major policy change. Councilmember Weber is not familiar with staffing at the fire department. He asked if they will take volunteers and fill what would be a full time position, instead. Councilmember Holden said no. They said they don't have enough peak coverage. They are at 80% coverage with volunteers. It's part-time, paid. They sign up for shifts. During the work week there are morning shifts that don't have coverage. The fire department has a strategic plan. They hired three full time captains, through a grant. The grant will pay for those but after three years you have to hire three more full-time positions. It's a six -year initiative. When the captains are there full-time, they can cover those empty shifts. The entire state is having difficulty finding volunteers because people have so many other things. They would eventually like to move to a full-time fire station. Councilmember Holden asked what is happening to all of the gym equipment, furniture and everything that is at the other station. Councilmember Monson said they weren't asked to address that. Councilmember Holden said that is a big chunk of money. Councilmember Weber asked if that was budgeted in the new building. Councilmember Holden said they budgeted for brand new everything. She thought it had been decided. City Administrator Jagoe said she wasn't sure. She knew all of the soft costs included equipment for the new building. She doesn't know what they are doing with the equipment at the old building. She can follow up and ask about it. Councilmember Monson said the cost to deconstruct desks and move weights to a new location can be almost as costly as getting new. Councilmember Holden said we just purchased all that new gym equipment. Councilmember Monson said she isn't sure about the gym equipment but she knows moving office furniture is almost never worthwhile to move it. Councilmember Holden said the firefighters can move it. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 9 Councilmember Weber recognizes the importance of the earlier statement to avoid bonding, if possible. He also thinks it's important to give the residents what they want. If we can't afford to do those things in this budget cycle we have to increase the levy appropriately so we can afford in the future. Part of the reason we are where we are is because we're not adding to the potential. Haven't been for some time. Some things are going to have to be pushed out. It is also important to fit those things into a plan. How can we get them in the relatively near future? To the point of bonding in 2030, he assume that is dependent on accepting the proposals outlined today. Finance Director Yang confirmed. Councilmember Weber said that is $350,000 increase to the PIR. He asked what the total increase was for Public Safety. Finance Director Yang said for Public Safety, it's just the $40,000. Councilmember Weber said it's important to recognize that we can wait to bond, but it is entirely dependent on raising the levy now. That is a pretty significant increase, across the board. We have projects next year that seem like ideal candidates for bonding. He thinks the water work we have to do for Rice Creek Commons next year is just the booster station and the work on the north tower. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said we have the trunk watermain upgrade in Roseville. That is $900,000. Councilmember Weber said that doesn't include any of the spine road trunk line. That will be significant. It would be helpful to see an estimate on what that might be. If we're still talking about potentially bonding soon, we need to look at what conflicts there might be. Next year does seem like an ideal year, if we are moving forward with it. He would like to see options if next year is a possibility, to try to soften the blow to residents this budget cycle. We would have to commit to a stepped increase in the levy every year. It will be a significant number. Councilmember Holden doesn't agree that we haven't done it in the past. We've added parks and put park benches in the park, we've added trails. It is incorrect to say we haven't done anything. We planned ahead for all of those items. She wondered what people Councilmember Weber is talking about when he says "it's what people want"? As leaders, we have to take responsibility and make sure, for the residents here that are living paycheck to paycheck, that we aren't taxing them out of our community. What would it look like if we tax 15.9%? We can nit- pick on every little thing. Maybe we start using ICWC more. We can hire them full-time. They work five days a week, we only ever use them on the weekends. Maybe they can take care of the City Hall. There may be other resources out there that we can utilize to reach our goal. Mayor Grant thinks there is a difference in bonding for TCAAP trunk utilities. We can use the 429 process. Those bonds are covered by special assessments against the property. It won't be a burden on us, if it's done that way. The upgrade to the Roseville watermain will be assessed back to 429 special assessments. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it, will be. It's related to the TCAAP development. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 10 Mayor Grant asked when we can start assessing that back. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said that is the question we need to answer. Mayor Grant said it's a good question. He has heard comments about what people want. Councilmember Weber made comments about a loader and if we can rent one since it's only used 10 hours a year. Is that really what people want? There are areas in our budget we want to take a look at. Councilmember Monson said she wants to talk about that loader at some point. She is adding the Hamline Trail at $160,000, the hard court are $450,000, the shelters at the parks are $170,000 and the Snelling and Trident is $450,000. She asked what the other trails are. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the County Road E is not happening next year. Highway 51 is 100% MnDOT. Councilmember Monson said adding up those park expenses is about $1.2 million. She wondered if we wanted to slice and dice a bond on that side vs. PMP. She is open to split some of the park items off for the bond. She is ready to discuss the case loader. Councilmember Weber said the PIR Fund went five years with no increase. It didn't follow inflation, it wasn't considered in years where there was low inflation. That's what he was referring to. He isn't saying the City hasn't planned ahead, entirely. He's only talking about the PIR and other funds that didn't follow inflationary trends. He believes there is a limit to how much you can use ICWC or there is a lot of competition for use of that group. Councilmember Holden said you have better odds once you're in the ICWC pool. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said we typically budget for 160 hours of work for ICWC. Last year there was difficulty scheduling them and it's even worse this year. There have been managerial changes. Public Works Superintendent Frid confirmed there have been a number of challenges. One was that they said Stillwater Prison was closing. The contact he had that would do the scheduling has moved on to another position. There is someone else in that role and he handles things differently. There aren't as many corrections officers. We are contracted for their overtime pool, on weekends. A corrections officer runs their crew and they have to have to have someone volunteer to work overtime. If we don't have corrections officers volunteer for those shifts, we can't fill weekends. Councilmember Weber said that was his point. We can't count on utilizing those. There are limits. His comments about the trunk line watermain and utilities at Rice Creek Commons wasn't intended to confuse what the City is responsible for and what the developers will pay for. It all counts toward the same $10 million bonding. We have to pay for those despite the fact that we are going to go get that money back. We may have to choose between what we want to bond for, if we decide to bond sooner than 2030. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 11 Mayor Grant pointed out it is $10 million per year. So we can bond for the trunk utilities, install them and then we can bond later for the tower. Councilmember Holden said she didn't realize there were problems scheduling ICWC. When that happens Staff needs to let Council know. It can be resolved by a simple phone call to commissioners to the governor's office. Our legislative leaders can help with that. Councilmember Monson said bonding is one of the ways we can keep all of the projects on the table. She said in 2026 we have the Hazelnut tennis court and trail rehab and the Arden Manor court. In 2027 we have Ingerson basketball court, new trail connections and the Sampson basketball court. She would be open to spreading those four projects beyond 2026 and 2027. Arden Manor has been delayed so maybe we move forward with just that one in 2026. Councilmember Holden wanted to know if the courts are safe. She had a conversation with Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen. After the big 2030 PMP project is done, we'll be in good shape. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. There are roads beyond 2030 that will need attention. He'll know more when he gets pavement cores. Councilmember Holden said it won't be significant neighborhoods and the level of high costs we have now. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he can say that as of today. The Ridgewood neighborhood is starting to fall apart. That is programmed for 2034-2036. It can change drastically from year to year. Councilmember Holden said her thought is we can push those courts out to when we won't have the big PMP projects. She asked if we are at 75%? Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said we are close to that. There are some roads that need some severe attention. He said the parks projects are organized to be offset in the PMP. The PMP is even years and parks projects are odd years. He combines structure replacements with the hardcourt. We will be through all hardcourt replacements by 2027 City- wide. That's in line with replacing all the play structures. We can separate out the hardcourts, that wouldn't be hard to do. It's just nice to have construction impacts done in just one season. Mayor Grant asked what neighborhood is in 2028. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said Benton Way, Pine Tree, Ingerson, Tiller, Buzzard, Lametti and that whole south east area. Mayor Grant asked what is after that. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said Red Fox, Grey Fox, Dunlap, Hamline, Connelly. Lake Valentine Road is in 2030. Mayor Grant would like to see us push our 2028 PMP out. Councilmember Monson asked if we would then push the 2030 out as well. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 12 Mayor Grant confirmed a one-year push. Part of looking at 2028 is we have to subtract out Lake Johanna Boulevard. That's a big chunk. Councilmember Weber asked if that would be the bonding year if we line it up with Lake Johanna. Mayor Grant said Lake Johanna could be a bond. Councilmember Holden said the Lake Johanna update is the County is coming to talk to us this fall. It sounds like the may be looking at the cheaper vs deluxe option. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed that will be a project scoping discussion. Councilmember Holden said that will save us and the County a significant amount of money. The main goal is to get a trail and a sidewalk in there so people are safe on their walk. The County proposed the super deluxe beautiful boulevard with trees down the middle. That would cost millions of dollars. We can get back to the basics and just get a trail. Mayor Grant said the County was looking at the Cadillac and then the question is how can we scope this back? Councilmember Monson the idea of pushing out the PMP is interesting. She would want a little more detail on what that would look like. If we push one of these costs off the five-year frame doesn't mean it won't need to be done. Are we just delaying the inevitable. If we were to push it, could we still build out the levy and fund it? If it comes a year later, we have better standing for it. We can hold it aside and not spend it on something else in 2027 and 2028. The intent of taking that levy is to prep us for the 2029 and 2031. Mayor Grant feels like we're trying to bite all of it in one year. If I'm a resident, I'm thinking can you ease into that plan? We're just looking at the CIP here. We aren't even looking at operating. Once we add the operating on top of this, at what point do we tax people out of their neighborhoods, as Councilmember Holden said earlier. We can do it in a progressive fashion, rather than a one big shock in one year. We've had double digit increases for the past two years. He suspects we may not be under double digits again this year. The projects are on the books. He would like to ease into them. He hasn't heard anyone say they looked at a project and we don't want to do that. The loader is an issue on the equipment side. We have the 590 with a one -yard bucket. The mover has 2-1/2 or 3. Public Works Superintendent Frid said it's between 3 and 4. Mayor Grant said we aren't using it that often. Should we buy a replacement for the 590 and a replacement for the front-end loader or should we buy a mid -range piece of equipment that fits both. That would take one parking spot in a maintenance yard that is already crammed. That means we are loading with a rig with a larger bucket and you'd also have to have a back hoe on it. Councilmember Weber asked what the 590 is. Mayor Grant said it's a front end loader with a yard bucket and a back hoe. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 13 Councilmember Weber said leasing is not a good deal for the City. Is a cooperative agreement with the County an option? Maybe they can load for us. Does the County store salt for us and we purchase it from them? Are they loading for us? Public Works Superintendent Frid confirmed. If their trucks are out there the same time we are there, they do. Councilmember Weber said if they aren't there, can our operators use their loader for loading salt? Public Works Superintendent Frid said no. Councilmember Weber asked if they typically have a yard operator there. Public Works Superintendent Frid said it depends on their schedule. Councilmember Weber said that's why we start at 2:00 am, because that's when the county does. Public Works Superintendent Frid said that is one of the advantages. Sometimes we start at different times than them. Councilmember Weber asked how often that is used to plow or do any other tasks outside of the yard. Public Works Superintendent Frid said it's a back up plow for the three single axel wing trucks. We have three main street routes in the City. If one of those trucks go down our back up is the loader with a wing and a plow or we rely on the two trucks that are still running to get three routes done. It's a longer plow. We've used the loader a fair amount in bigger snow events where the dump trucks get stuck in cul-de-sacs or other areas. With a big enough loader, we can pull the truck out. We have used it on projects like man hole work where we have to move a lot of soil. We use it a lot in the yard when we have what we call "spoils". Spoils are when we excavate a water main break. It's soils that we can't use. We have to load a truck and haul those out. We stockpile it until we're full but then it has to be removed. We use it to screen the cutback so the concrete chunks from watermain breaks or anytime we have to tear a street up. That is why we need a loader that is the size of what we currently have. The County has loaders much larger than ours but the one we have has been the right size for what we need it for. He looked at the City of Mouns View's loader, it's the same one that we are requesting. They use it in exactly the same way we do. Mayor Grant asked how big our dump trucks are and how much will they hold. Public Works Superintendent Frid said three to four cubic yards, maybe five depending on what you're hauling. Mayor Grant said using the 590 we would need to dump 5 bucketfuls to fill a truck. Public Works Superintendent Frid confirmed. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 14 Mayor Grant said the 590 and the loader are two of the older pieces of equipment. He said why buy two pieces of equipment. If a truck holds five yards and a 590 holds one yard and you dump five bucketfuls into the truck. It may take a few extra minutes but not that long when you're looking at $300,000. The 590 will need to be replaced, too. Why have two pieces of equipment to front end load when you know one of the front end loaders is used 10 hours a year. He doesn't know if we need two loaders. There are so many needs on the list. He'd like to see us keep the levy down as much as we can. Maybe we ease the burden in 2026 and pass it to 2027. Councilmember Monson said this case loader is very expensive. What we use it for is important but isn't used very frequently. We have to find a solution where we don't have to purchase one. Or we bundle it in 2029 and bond for it with everything else. It isn't palatable. She would like Staff to come up with a better plan to consider. We've had this conversation for 2025, we're talking about in now for 2026 and we're talking about pushing it to 2027. We'll have the same conversation next year. Councilmember Holden said when talking about bonding. It costs us $4 million to bond $3 million. She asked if local sales taxes are off the table? Finance Director Yang doesn't think it's been lifted. Councilmember Holden knew it was introduced but she didn't know where that was. Maybe we increase the Franchise Fee by a quarter. Mayor Grant said that is contractual for 15 years. Finance Director Yang said you have the ability to change those fees. Councilmember Holden said Shoreview did it last year. They raised it like fifty cents. Then we can have real money instead of paying so much debt that we are losing. She said Councilmember Weber keeps throwing out Cannabis. We lose money with bonding. If we can get money from a different source and collect interest, we have that money to spend. Mayor Grant said we learned from doing the fire station at 15 year bonding, $3 million costs us $4 million. Councilmember Monson clarified, it is $1 million dollars in interest. It is $4 million paid in total, on $3 million borrowed. Mayor Grant confirmed. A $3 million bond for 15 years will cost us $4 million total. Looking at the $300,000 loader is 1 tenth of that. Discussion ensued regarding bonding for the case loader. Councilmember Weber agrees with Councilmember Monson. He said it is the kind of machine you run into the ground. The resale value on it doesn't mean much if you're selling a $300,000 piece of equipment for $25,000 at the end. The maintenance costs on it are next to nothing. We can't predict the future. However, the machine is functioning now and the current City financial outlook does not support the purchase of the loader, at this time. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 15 Councilmember Monson asked what the levy decrease would be if we take the loader out of the budget. Finance Director Yang said we are looking okay through 2029 for Fund Balance. Councilmember Monson said this won't help with the levy. She remembers last year there was discussion of removing some items but it didn't change the levy. The equipment total for this year is $751,000. Removing the loader would only reduce that amount by not even half. Councilmember Holden said Truck #431, the 2009 Sterling is in the budget for 2026 for $144,000 and 2027 for $139,000. She asked if that was right. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said that is the one that has been approved and has been ordered. Councilmember Holden asked what the $139,000 was. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said that's the cost of the full build -out for the tanker. We expect to see the invoice for that in 2027. Councilmember Monson asked if we talked about the Ford Escape. Councilmember Holden asked who uses the Ford Escape. City Administrator Jagoe said the two Ford Escapes are used by the Building Department. Mayor Grant asked what the mileage was. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they are used daily when we are fully staffed. They are necessary vehicles. City Administrator Jagoe said Parks and Rec also use them. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen doesn't think the mileage is very high. Councilmember Monson said we have established the vehicles are needed. She wondered if we should be looking at a hybrid instead of a Ford Escape. That would reduce the cost of gas. She thinks $41,000 seems high for a work vehicle. Mayor Grant agreed. At 69,000 miles we've had $40 worth of preventative maintenance and $150 worth of repairs. Repair can mean many things. Councilmember Holden said we bought that because someone convinced us we needed an SUV because they can go through dirt and mud. She doesn't believe that's necessary. Councilmember Monson agrees. She asked if Staff can come back with an alternative to the Ford Escape. She said 69,000 is low mileage and maintenance and repairs is not excessive. She thinks we should either push it out or ask for an alternative that makes better financial sense. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 16 Councilmember Weber said we are using a new scoring system, that seems to make more sense. Maybe 15 years ago it made sense to have a replacement schedule based on how old it is. Vehicles don't rust out as bad as they once did. We can extend the life a little more. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the thought process of the 10-12 year cycle is the trade in value. The older it is, the less resale value there is. Trading it in is more valuable than turning it in for scrap and buying something brand new. Mayor Grant said the depreciation on a new vehicle would dwarf the loss of value. Councilmember Weber asked if it would be traded in toward a new vehicle or would it go to auction. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he reviews the avenues and we take the path that will get us the most back. Public Works Superintendent Frid said we buy at State contract pricing, not retail. Councilmember Weber asked if the proposed $41,000 is the State pricing. Public Works Superintendent Frid confirmed. His Fleet Lead ran these budget numbers. If there is a different number, we can find a vehicle that fits the parameters. Councilmember Monson said she would like to argue for a hybrid. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen repeated if there was a target number, it would help them adjust the list. They have a list of equipment that are being recommended for replacement to ensure reliable operations. If we had a target number, it would help us adjust year to year. Right now, these things are starting to stack up. The next two years, we have a bunch of equipment that we consistently push back. We take care of the little pieces of equipment but delay the big ones because it's easier to push them back. If we had a number, maybe we could get one of the bigger pieces and shift some of the smaller pieces of equipment back. That would allow more flexibility for Staff to make those decisions. Mayor Grant said years ago, when going over the CIP, Public Works would bring the equipment up here for Council to see it. It's not a bad idea. Councilmember Monson likes the idea of alternating years. One year is one big piece of equipment and then next year we replace a handful of smaller pieces of equipment. That may help balance things. If we stay around $500,000 every year and add inflation, as needed. We will always pick the cheaper replacements in an attempt to reduce the levy. Finance Director Yang said if we took the loader off the list, the levy can stay at $100,000 and we will be fine through 2029. Councilmember Monson asked what percent of levy decrease, off of the 11% currently proposed increase, would it save. Mayor Grant asked Finance Director Yang to summarize what has been discussed. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 17 Finance Director Yang said she will look at different CIP bonding structures and scenarios. It may be parks alone or parks and trails. She will look at the bonding impact if we step up the increase on the levy. She will remove the loader and analyze the levy impact. Discussion ensued regarding the hard courts and spreading the installation over several years. Mayor Grant asked if that will mess up the schedule Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen has created. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said the one scenario he would prefer for consideration is splitting the 2028 PMP. He can split that up to make it two smaller projects. Then he can shift the rest out two years. There would still be a PMP in 2028, it would just be smaller. The other half of that project will be in 2030. Then the existing 2030 PMP will be pushed to 2032, and so forth. Councilmember Holden asked when the borings happen. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen he is going to take some this year. Councilmember Holden said before we do that, she wants to know if this will shift more projects to reconstruction. Complete reconstruction is way more expensive. Mayor Grant said Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said he is pushing out the commercial area. He asked if splitting the project makes it more work. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it isn't any more work. It just delays things. Finance Director Yang said her main focus will be looking at bonding scenarios and levy impacts. Mayor Grant asked if there were any other items Council would like to hear an update on. Councilmember Weber said he would like Staff to analyze why we have a Super Duty and if that is necessary, based on the use. It appears the main function is being a transport vehicle. If we can down grade the vehicle to something more economical it should be considered. Mayor Grant would like to learn how we can use ICWC on a Monday through Friday. Councilmember Holden said if we still have a hard time getting a hold of anyone, she will take the contact information and make some phone calls. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said there is a report about the issues we've been having recently. Mayor Grant said it may be a simple contact to our State Representative outlining how important the program is to Cities. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 18 Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said using them definitely has an impact, they just haven't been reliable for scheduling when we need them. Councilmember Holden asked if Shoreview is having any issues. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said they have them full time. Councilmember Holden said one problem is if a facility is in lockdown, we lose that work. Councilmember Monson asked if we need another discussion with Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen on the structure on how to spread the equipment costs out. She presumes that conversation will happen in early 2026, and not be included with the current budget discussion. Council agreed with that strategy. Councilmember Holden said she knows Public Works is busy but it's time to slow down. We don't want to burn out the Staff we have. C. Old Snelling Avenue Speed Limit Discussion Mayor Grant said this isn't the first time we've discussed this. It was publicized after our initial discussion. Speed limit signs are posted at 25 miles per hour (mph). Councilmember Holden said she was against this initially. She still wants to leave it at 25 mph. This came about because Councilmember Monson brought some information forward. Councilmember Monson said she was under the assumption that the resident she spoke with was the spokesperson for a broader group of neighbors. That was incorrect. She thinks it should remain 25 mph. If there appears to be interest, we can do some public outreach and reevaluate at that time. Mayor Grant said he received an email from a resident who wants it increased. Councilmember Holden said we didn't do public outreach on any other street where it's 25 mph and someone complained it was too low. She thinks we leave it as is. She wouldn't want other neighborhoods coming forward and requesting an increase in the limit. Councilmember Weber discussed the information outlined in the agenda information, based on the signs installed to collect that driver information. He said 26% of people are going 20 mph or less. About 53% of people who drive down that road are speeding and driving between 25-40 mph. That is a problem with the speed limit. If 80% of the people are speeding down the road then the road isn't designed for residential. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it was a rural section of road previously. We put every design element in there to make it uncomfortable to speed and make people slow down. It was designed for slower speeds. People are just more comfortable driving faster, these days. ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 19 Councilmember Weber said he isn't a driver who speeds. He has a hard time going that slow on that road. He thinks the limit is too low. He understands the desire for safety on the streets, the curb is an impediment to people being hit on the trail. He said it's 10 foot lane plus the curb. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen confirmed. Councilmember Weber said it feels like it should be faster than 25 mph and he thinks 80% who drive on that road will agree with him. We don't want to set up a situation where the road feels faster than it is and sheriff can set up along the road and ticket people. Councilmember Holden asked when the data was collected. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it is since 2022. Councilmember Holden asked if the speed limit was 40 mph in 2022. Public Works Director/City Engineer Swearingen said it was the new road when we started collecting the data. Councilmember Holden thinks the analysis will be the same on every street. She is happy with it at 25. Mayor Grant outlined that there were four Councilmembers present and the topic is split in a deadlock. Councilmember Monson asked if Mayor Grant supports increasing the limit to 35 mph. Mayor Grant thought it could be 30. There are two people who want 25. Councilmember Weber agrees. He said Councilmember Rousseau can weigh in on a future discussion. Staff will hold off on making any changes, at this time. D. Agenda Planning Councilmember Holden wants to add some items to the list. Said every year several neighbors pay for goats to eat the buckthorn through the Karth Lake area. They put an electric fence up. They were told they can't do that anymore. She would like to discuss neighborhoods being allowed to hire vendors to bring in goats and eat the buckthorn. She noted that right now it's illegal to have goats even though commercial people are doing it. We need a policy. Councilmember Holden also wants to discuss use of the City logo. She noticed the Lions Club is using it but the Rotary is not allowed to use it. She wants to know what the policy is for use of our logo. 4. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND STAFF UPDATES ARDEN HILLS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION — JULY 28, 2025 20 ADJOURN Mayor Grant adjourned the City Council Work Session meeting at 6:53 p.m. I David Grant Mayor