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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 12-09-1985 ----- MINUTES OF REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING Village of Arden Hills Monday, December 9, 1985 - 7:30 p.m. Mounds View High School Theater Call to Order Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Woodburn called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m. Roll Call Present: Mayor Robert Woodburn, Councilmembers Thomas Sather, Gary Peck, Nancy Hansen, Dale Hicks Absent: None Also Present: Engineers Donald Christoffersen, Barry Peters, Glenn Van Wormer, Attorney James Lynden, Treasurer Donald Lamb, Public Works Supervisor Robert Raddatz, Clerk Administrator Charlotte McNiesh, . Deputy Clerk Dorothy Zehm Public Hearing: Feasibility Study - Hamline Avenue Improvement, Phase II Mayor Woodburn opened the public hearing and explained the purpose of the hearing is to hear comments relative to proposed Improvement No. P-85-3, Hamline . Avenue, Phase II. Woodburn asked Clerk Administrator McNiesh for verification of mailed and published notice of the hearing. McNiesh replied that she has an affidavit stating that due notice was provided in the New Bri~hton Bulletin on November 27 and December 4, 1985, and verified that the notice was mailed to affected property owners on November 27, 1985. Woodburn introduced Engineers Donald Christoffersen and Barry Peters (SEH), Traffic Engineer Glenn Van Wormer (SER) , and Attorney James Lynden, and asked Christoffersen to briefly explain the project. Christoffersen referred those present to a transparency of Hamline Avenue, from Floral Drive to STH 96; indicated the proposed 5' wide walkway location on the west side of Hamline and the locations of culverts to be installed to equalize ponds on either side of the street (one between Eide Circle and Indian Oaks Court, another just south of Colleen Avenue.and Wyncrest Court) and to culvert locations to the north which drain to existing culverts to Sunfish Lake across STH 96. A second transparency was displayed showing: 1) the "temporary section" proposed in 1986, consisting of two 12' driving lanes, with 12.5 'aggregate shoulders, and 2) "typical final section", (1987 construction), consisting of a center 14' turn lane, two 12' driving lanes, two 4' shoulders, curb and gutter, and a 5' wide sidewalk within the 66' wide road right-of-way. Christoffersen noted that the sidewalk is located 7' from the west curb, sewer and electric are along the west side of the'right-of-way, and telephone, cable and water- main are along the east side of the right-of-way. Attorney Lynden was asked by Mayor Woodburn to explain the proposed financing. Lynden explained that the hearing tonight is to elicit input as to whether or not the project ought to proceed; reported that the estimated cost of the Phase II project is $877,000, Phase I (surcharging) is $120,OOO; total esti- mated cost is $997,000. Lynden explained that MSA funds are available for funding a portion of the project; reported Arden Hills has $294,200 in MSA . funds now, with an additional $160,000 available in 1986 and 1987; explained that the balance, $382,800,will have to be derived from other sources, one of which is to assess 100%; noted that if assessed, the property assessed must receive benefit; if 100% assessed, abutting properties could be assessed ..~~ $71/foot based on $382,800 divided by 5,400 feet of benefitted property; ex- plained that the Council will determine benefit to properties and another hearing will be held relative to the assessment policy. Woodburn asked if any written comments have been received relative to the project. McNiesh read a letter from William Hastert, 4379 Arden View Court, objecting to the road improvement because it is. "too expensive", stating he cannot afford the high assessment. Minutes of Regular Council Meeting, December 9, 1985 Page two McNiesh reported that a member of the Board of Townhouse Villages at Arden Hills called; said the Board has not taken a stand on the matter; requests that their underground sprinkling system be protected during the road con- struction (referred to City Engineer). Comments from the Floor Gerald Glomski, 4508 Hamline Avenue, said that those who live on Hamline re- ceived notices; others with access to Hamline did not receive notices; feels the people living on cul-de-sacs use the road as much as those living on Hamline and should receive some assessment. Glomski said it appears you have taken a secondary road and turned it into a freeway. Answer - It was noted that the reason the residents off Hamline did not re- ceive notices is they have already been assessed for their road. Hamline . Avenue property owners have not been assessed for a road. Bill Oberreit, 4465 Arden View Court, said it was his understanding, from reading the notice, that all properties within 1/4 to 1/2 mile, east or west of Hamline Avenue, received notices. Answer - All properties abutting Hamline, and all properties in the Townhouse Villages received notices. Pat Weaver, 1330 Amble Road, said she called the Village office today and was told that the townhouses and everyone on Hamline Avenue received notices. Answer - The legal description in the notice covers a wider area than the properties actually receiving notices; notice was sent to properties abutting Hamline and to the Townhouse Villages. Pat Weaver said the road is already a freeway; feels the proposed project will make it more that way - like Lexington. Traffic Engineer Van Wormer was asked how the traffic on Hamline, after the proposed improvement, will compare to the present traffic volume. Van Wormer said the volume will probably remain about the same; speed will generally be only 1 to 2 miles per hour over the existing speed; noted that the condition of a road will make a 1 to 2 mph difference i~ speed (smooth road - 1 to 2 mile increase; poor road condition - 1 to 2 mile decrease). Mayor Woodburn noted that when Fairview was upgraded, a 1 to 2 mph decrease in speed was experienced, according to a report from Ramsey County. Van Wormer said the improved roadway will produce "more uniform speed". Nancy Hansen reported that when she was on the Public Safety Committee, the concern of Hamline Avenue residents was speed; wanted the speed limit reduced; noted that the speed has been reduced to 40 mph. Hansen reported that the unsafe driving conditions on Hamline were also a reported concern; residents wanted a safe turn lane. Hansen noted that a center lane for turns only was considered the best option after hearing the comments from residents. Mike Lamey, 1349 Colleen Avenue, said he lives at the corner of Colleen .and Hamline; asked if we need such a big project; do we need a sidewalk; do we need turn lanes? Lamey asked how many properties abut the street? Answer - 350+ notices were mailed. Lamey said these are the properties that may be assessed? . Answer - Woodburn said this may be one of the sources - yes. Lamey asked if anyone had been in the mire during the County Road D project; asked if we want this kind of mess for two years - a "quagmire". , Christoffersen said he expects construction in 1986 over about 3-1/2 months; noted that the contractor will provide access for residents; noted that con- struction conditions will not be as bad in 1987, when the side lanes are added. Lamey asked how many cars use Hamline? -- --------- - . Minutes of Regular Council Meeting, December 9, 1985 Page three Van Wormer reviewed the volume counts since 1979 (5,000/day), 1981 (6,000/day), 1984 (8,OOO/day); anticipates 9,OOO/day by 1987. Lamey said 350 residents can't make 9,000 trips/day; others are using the road, not just residents; Lamey said. without stop signs, the road will become a drag strip; noted that cars coming off the freeway don't stop and won't stop; asked if there will be any stop lights. Answer - None are anticipated as part of the project. Lamey reported that the Army uses this road too, and not only on weekends; asked if the Army will pay for any of this; said sometimes has had to wait ten minutes to get into his driveway. Lamey said the road will take out some of his oak trees and part of his driveway; if this happens, it will make his . driveway "impossible"; said he had a title search before he bought the property - there was no problem when he bought the house. Answer - Christoffersen explained that the driveway appears to be in the curb return area; is not certain of this until plans are prepared. Lamey said he feels plans should be prepared for a smaller project; rather than going over budget - 2 lanes and no sidewalk. Jean Day, 4250 Hamline Avenue said she wrote to Representative Tony Bennett about what has happened to Hamline Avenue; is most upset with the response to her letter; objects to not having any "say" about speed problems and shouldn't have to pay for the road; feels we are making a freeway out of Hamline and there's no reason for it. Answer - Woodburn explained that it is not proposed that Hamline Avenue residents pay more than other residents have paid for "residential" roads in front of their homes. Tom Rockne, 4101 James Circle, said he's on the "other side of the fence"; feels Hamline must be upgraded; if considered a "dragstrip", it must be improved to a "safer dragstrip"; feels the amount of money proposed to be spent is cheap insurance. Lorraine Manuel, 4460 No. Hamline Avenue, said she has lived here 35 years; Hamline was a lovely road; asked if we need sidewalks and storm sewers; feels the recent home builders should be required to put the road back in the condi- tion it was in before they built the houses; asked if the people on Hamline Avenue have asked for the road improvement; isn't aware of a tremendous push by the residents. L. Manuel said we wouldn't have all the traffic if we had stop signs; feels a stop sign is needed at STH 96 and access to 1-694 is poorly engineered; would prefer having a semaphore to a sidewalk. Woodburn reported that he unde~stands the 1-694 access at Hamline was at the people's insistance, not the engineer's. L. Manuel said the traffic on Hamline will lower her property value; noted that access to her driveway is difficult now - proposed project and increased speed will make it worse; stated we don't need the project - why not fix the road we have? Van Wormer was asked what effect a semaphore has on speed. Answer - Speed may be slower for about 200 feet on either side of a semaphore . but increases after that, after a stop. Woodburn noted that traffic signals cost about $100,000. Manual said she feels Council will do as it pleases anyway; feels Council . should consider our taxes; stated you listen to us, but do as you want anyway; said we don't need a road on such a "grand scale"; feels it is already "cut and dried". Christoffersen explained that most residents have paid for the street in front of their homes; noted that streets built today are constructed with curb and gutter and are 100% assessed; explained that the additional cost for this road is because the road carries more traffic than a residential street; it was designated as an MSA street to help pay for the additional cost to construct a 9-ton, instead of a 7-ton, road. -~ . . Minutes of Regular Council Meeting, December 9, 1985, Page four Hicks noted that there are minimum standards to be met in order to use MSA funds; reported that Council considered a number of alternatives; reported that the residents, at a previous meeting at the Village Hall, supported the 3-lane road which was considered the cheapest improvement for safety. Larry Michal , 1393 Arden View Drive, said the sidewalk infringes on space for a right-turn lane from Hamline onto Arden View Drive; feels there should be a right-turn lane; reported cars pass him on Hamline; markings on road are very hard to see. Van Wormer said a two-lane road was considered; in order to handle the high volume of traffic and left and right turns, the 3-lane road, with 4' shoulders on either side, seems the best solution (2 12' driving lanes, with a 14' wide center turn lane). Michal said the access to the freeway is almost impossible from Hamline. . Van Wormer reported that the State is making some changes in that access area. Woodburn noted these changes are a coordinated City/State effort. Kay LORaion, 4260 Hamline Ave., said she thinks we can cut back on the im- provement; feels the turn lane is good; feels we need a semaphore at STH 96; could maybe delete the walkway. Logajon said the rich people don't live on Hamline - most are moderate income people; said that maybe the City should find the money first, not proceed with the improvement and then find the money; asked if inflation is built into the cost figure given tonight. Christoffersen said it is. Tom Sather explained that Hamline Avenue has been designated as part of the Arden Hills' "parkway system"; noted that the separation of walkways from vehicular roadway is one of the design criteria for streets designated as parkways (other design criteria are buried powerlines, landscaping, etc.); feels the cost of the off-street walkway is outweighed by safety; noted that parkways are to provide natural aesthetics, safe pedestrian as well as vehicular travel; noted that parkway characteristics are not part of the plan presented tonight; feels it would be a mistake if we don't provide a walkway; feels traffic needs to be controlled on this street and a walkway is needed for safety. Glomski said he has lived here five years; is against a sidewalk on the west side; feels it should be on the east side of Hamline; reported that joggers use the east side, more than the west side of the street; asked the cost of a sidewalk; said he is not against sidewalks. Answer - $35,000 (Peters) Glomski said a sidewalk could be put on both sides of the road. Christoffersen explained that right-of-way is limited; can look into this possibility. Mark Peterson, 4468 Hamline, asked if C.P.I. will be assessed. Answer - Yes, part of C.P.I. property; some abuts the State portion of the road. Peterson said there is no way to cross Hamline without putting your life in danger, not even at the pathway crossing. Nancy Hansen reported that a repeated concern of residents has been that there is no safe place for school children to wait for school buses, cross the street, . and/or get to the parks; there have been repeated requests for a semaphore at Hamline and STH 96, and for stop signs along Hamline at intersections. Hansen noted there have been requests for acceleration lanes as well in order to get onto the road. Peterson said stop signs en route would make the road less desirable and would , probably reduce the traffic volume; many cars use Hamline, not only abutting property owners. Peterson asked if residents will be compensated for trees. Answer - Yes, if on your property, not if on boulevard (street right-of-way) - Lynden. . . Minutes of Regular Council Meeting, December 9, 1985 Page five Michael Lynch, 4369 Arden View Court said eliminating the sidewalk won't do much to reduce the cost; would appreciate a sidewalk; stated that his concern is that a secondary street is being turned into a 9-ton roadway; stated the problem is not due to residents but to the interstate traffic; the turn-lane bothers him. Lynch said the volume of cars would be reduced if there was a "Stop" installed for cars coming from the Interstate; then we could retain our 2-lane street; feels Hamline does not need to be a 9-ton road for resident traffic; asked that this be considered before going to an assessment hearing; suggested closing the interchange at Hamline and 1-694. Steve Dorr, 1330 WynridRe Drive asked about adequacy of 66' right-of-way. Christoffersen said City may need some temporary construction easements to cut and fill slopes, etc. Dorr asked if the right-of-way is proposed to be . moved. Answer - Christoffersen said the centerline is proposed to shift two feet to the east to accommodate the sidewalk within the right-of-way. Dorr asked how the proposed roadway will solve his access problem onto Hamline from Wynridge Drive. Answer - Van Wormer said the center lane is not for passing or storing cars; probably won't solve your entry problem onto Hamline; center lane should provide room to turn right onto Wynridge, and allow cars following sufficient space to slip by you. Dorr asked if space is provided for patrol cars to park and for car emergency stopping. Answer - As proposed, there is no provision for on-street parking. Dorr said we need protection for crossing Hamline. Dorr said he called Shoreview relative to amount they assessed for Lexington; was quoted $6.0S/foot for curb; asked what Arden Hills assessed - Answer, No assessment. Dorr said this is his first home; has not budgeted for an assessment; needs to know how much the assessment might be so he can plan ahead. Lynden explained that the procedure for assessment is mandated by the State, requiring the two hearings (the hearing on the proposed improvement tonight and an assessment hearing); advised that if the improvement is assessed, it must be at least 20% or more, or nothing. The cost of a 2-lane road was queried. Peter's guesstimate was $690,000 plus cost of surcharge. Don Goserud, 4350 No. Hamline, said if Hamline ended at County Road F, it would eliminate all of the problems; noted that Lexington has been upgraded and Highway 10 has been upgraded; sees no need for another highway on Hamline; noted that many cul-de-sacs access onto Hamline; acknowledged these residents have been assessed for their streets, but they also use Hamline - we don't use their streets. Goserud said the 3-lane road eliminates shoulders, pro- viding no place for cars to pull off when in trouble. Goserud said he's aware that Council tentatively approved a 3-lane road, but he's not sure this was the desire of the residents at that meeting; asked if we need curb, .gutter and storm sewer. . Robert Elliot, Cardiac Pacemakers said that C.P.I. most emphatically would be assessed; have 500 to 700 feet on Hamline, a good portion is a drainage pond; stated that C.P.I. intends to pay a good amount of assessments; said they also would like to suggest that the people on the cul-de-sac, accessing to Hamline, help pay for storm sewers, as well as the abutting property owners; feels all benefitting properties should share in the assessments; suggested the drainage assessment may include properties for some distance on either side of Hamline. (Christoffersen said this storm sewer is only taking drainage from abutting properties.) Lynden noted that these remarks are appreciated, but are more germane for the assessment hearing. Elliot said he'd like it on record tonight for thought prior to the assessment hearing; said they feel others besides abutting properties should be included in the assessments. . . Minutes of Regular Council Meeting, December 9 Page six Tom Mulcahy, 3530 Siems Court said he was on the Council when the Engineer was directed to prepare plans for this road; noted that when the design was ordered, it was for a 3-lane road because those residents we heard from at that time wanted a 3-lane road (Mulcahy preferred a narrower road); noted that the cost of a 2-lane road ($690,000) would reduce by about 1/2 the money Council must find, in addition to MSA funds; reported that, as a member of the Parks Committee, he supports the walkway to improve the aesthetics for this road. (Christoffersen concurred with Mulcahy's mathematics re a 2-lane versus 3-lane road.) N. Hansen asked if City can put stop signs on Hamline..can we really cut off Hamline from the freeway interchange? Answer - Van Wormer said he is not sure how the State would respond to that; . said the City would lose its State Aid funds and would have to pay back any funds it has used. Van Wormer said the 9,000 cars on Hamlin~ would have to use other streets, including residential streets. Jean Day said the traffic volume is not generated by the local area. Bill Oberreit said that Hamline is no longer a rural road; it gets lots of traffic; stopping HamUne at County Road F is "silly"; let's make Ham1ine safe - the road is narrow with deep ditches now on either side; noted that an acceleration lane will be constructed as you approach the Interstate. Oberreit asked who plows the sidewalk - Answer - No one. Tim TuKKle. 4126 James Circle said he is for the project; said he'd pay his share to get a safe road; reported quite a few accidents have occurred on HamUne; feels all those who use it should be assessed. Tuggle said we also need a safe place to cross Hamline; need a stop sign somewhere along Hamline. Mike Lynch said he'd like Council to consider a "Stop" sign; suggested one be installed on a temporary basis to see if it reduces the volume of traffic; suggested it be located at Floral and Hamline. Lynch said the City of Orono's philosophy is to never upgrade anything greater than it is now; stated it is a beautiful community and will remain that way. Christoffersen acknowledged that people on the cul-de-sacs, as well as the abutting property owners, use Hamline; noted that the assessment proposal is not to assess people on Hamline any more than those on a 7-ton residential street in Arden Hills. Hicks said if a left-turn lane is necessary for all turns off of Hamline, he doubts that the cost would be cut substantially by building a 2-lane road. After determining that there were no additional comments or questions, the public hearing was closed at 9:50 p.m. Peck moved to table Council action until the December 30 meeting. Motion was seconded by Sather. In discussion, Hicks asked the reason for tabling; feels 3-lane is about as narrow a road as we can build to accommodate turns; asked if Council is re- questing any new information; doesn't want to table if Council feels turn lanes are needed. Christoffersen reported that they were not able to get the survey prior to . the snow, said he wants to get the survey; feels the schedule outlined previ- ously can be met if Council delays its action until December 30. Motion carried unanimously. (5-0) Adiournment Hansen moved, seconded by Sather, that the meeting adjourn at 9:55 p.m. Motion 122ed unanimo~~ {f ~~k/~~./ :4A Jl AZtt? Charlotte McNiesh Robert L. Woodburn . Clerk-Administrator Mayor Notice of MeetinK The next Special Council Meeting will be on Monday, December 16, 1985 at 7:30 P.M. at the Village Hall.