HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-23-04 PTRC Minutes
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ARDEN HILLS
MINUTES
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
TUESDAY, MARCH 23, 2004 7:00 P.M.
ARDEN HILLS CITY HALL
1245 WEST HIGHWAY 96
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Henry called the March 23, 2004 meeting of the Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee to
order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Bill Henry, Committee Members Jim Crassweller, Don
Messerly, Rich Straumann, Roberta Thompson and Steve Zilmer.
OTHERS PRESENT: Tom Moore, Director Operations & Maintenance; Michelle Olson, Parks
and Recreation Supervisor; and Bonita Sullivan, Recording Secretary.
MEMBERS NOT PRESENT: Committee Member Joani Werner; Brenda Holden, City Council
Liaison
. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Agenda was approved by consensus.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
. Approve February 24, 2004 Minutes
Chair Henry noted that in the minutes it shows a short statement that Committee Member
Messerly asked if anything had been done with 1-694 and Highway 10 and asked what that was
about. Committee Member Messerly clarified that his question was in general regarding the
abandoning of Highway 10 noting that it is an old issue.
MOTION: Committee Member Crassweller motioned, seconded by Committee Member
Thompson to approve the February 24, 2004 minutes as amended. The motion
carried unanimously.
3. COUNCIL UPDATE
City Council Liaison, Brenda Holden was not in attendance. No Report was given.
.
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Arden Hills Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meetiug Minutes
March 23, 2004
Page 2 of 10
. 4. PARKS AND RECREATION UPDATES
Tom Moore - Parks Update
Mr. Moore provided the Committee with an update on the Park activities. He reviewed the
following items:
A. Bridge on County Road E
. There will be a neighborhood meeting on April I, 2004, 7:00 p.m., at City Hall.
. URS Representatives and Mr. Moore will conduct the presentation.
. He asked the PTRC members to attend. He explained that their role would be to meet
and greet; answer residents' questions privately; provide ongoing support of the project
going forward; and provide comments as needed.
. Flyers have been distributed throughout the neighborhood.
. Receiving an overwhelming majority response that they are in favor of the trails.
. Does not see any concerns with the bridgework.
. Concerns probably would be with the eight homes along that area.
. Presentation will show how it looks today and reviewed.
. Committee Member Thompson clarified that the trail would be located within the existing
easement. Mr. Moore confirmed that it is and reviewed with the Committee.
Mr. Moore noted that the majority of the resistance could be due to the adjustments that changes
in an area can bring. He reviewed the various concerns with the Committee that could negatively
affect the trails.
Committee Member Thompson asked ifhe had received any comments from the homes along
Highway 96 and whether they have noticed any difference. Mr. Moore stated that he has not
received any negative calls regarding that trail, noting that they have not had a full season with
the trail yet. Ms. Olson indicated that it is possible that comments may have been made at the
recent Ramsey County meeting and suggested a follow-up.
Mr. Moore stated that this would be totally funded by the State with no impact to the residents
via property assessments. He indicated that he has toured five to six neighborhoods to make sure
the communication to the neighborhoods were sent out in a broad-based manner. He encouraged
the Committee Members to attend if possible noting that City Council members would also
probably be in attendance.
B. PerrY Park
. Reviewed the directional boring for sanitary sewer and to bring water to the new picnic
. facilities.
Arden Hills Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meeting Minutes
March 23, 2004
Page 3 of 10
. . City inspector will review the plans next Monday, March 29, 2004.
. Upon approval from the City Inspector, the plans will then be sent back to the PTRC for
final review and from there, move forward with the project.
C. URS Study on Old 1OIRailroad Bridge Trail
. Have reached a stumbling block with respect to the budget.
. The Park Budget is outside the realm of the URS budget because they now have to bring
in structural engineers.
. IfPTRC still wants to continue on with the study a recommendation should be make to
take to Council for consideration.
Chair Henry asked how much it would cost for the study. Mr. Moore stated that it would cost
approximately $2000.
Mr. Moore explained that the need for the structural engineers is because they do not know how
far down the structural posts actually go. He further explained that they should do borings in the
area to determine how deep they actually go. He stated that based on what they find would
determine which of the three options they would consider.
. Committee Member Thompson asked if the dollars would come from the Park Fund or the
General Fund. Mr. Moore stated that City Council would probably take the funding from the
General Fund. He indicated that there would probably also be some discussion regarding the
Parks Fund noting that the remaining funds, available after Perry Park, would be approximately
$150,000.
Chair Henry stated that they should find the funds for the project. Committee Member
Crassweller agreed.
Motion by Committee Member Crassweller, second by Committee Member Messerly to locate
the funds and provide recommendation to City Council to move forward with the study. Motion
carried unanimously.
Michelle Olson - Recreation Update
Ms. Olson provided the Committee with following update:
. Reviewed Ice Rink User totals with the Committee.
. Had a very good season as far as weather goes.
. Tried to stay open an extra week noting that the Committee had decided, a couple of
years ago, to keep two of the five rinks open to determine the level of attendance and they
. have had good response with respect to attendance.
. Decided to go an extra week and covered shifts with the current staff.
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Arden Hills Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meeting Minutes
March 23, 2004
Page 4 of 10
. Cummings had issues and the building never did open. They did place a rink and it was
.
utilized a great deal. She stated that the ice was in very good condition.
. Could not take ownership of building because things were not done. Still have open
items on punchlist.
. Stated that the Committee should determine if they want to keep it as a regular ice rink or
consider replacing the hockey boards.
. If the Committee decides to replace the hockey boards it must be decided with the
knowledge that replacement of the boards would be expensive.
. Majority of the boards would not be able to be saved. Recommended installing a nice
rink to blend well with the new building structure.
Chair Henry asked ifthe neighborhood had any issues regarding the hockey rink. Ms. Olson
explained that there was a petition, signed by the majority of the neighborhood that stated they do
want the hockey rink. Committee Member Messerly noted that the last time they discussed the
hockey boards it was his understanding that there was considerable opposition to the rink and
asked that this be clarified.
Mr. Moore stated that he would send out a neighborhood survey to determine the level of
interest. Committee Member Thompson agreed stating that they should also include a statement
to indicate to the residents that there would be a cost associated to the rink. She stated that it is
. important that they be aware of the costs.
Chair Henry asked what type of materials would be used for the hockey boards. Ms. Olson
eXplained that if the hockey boards were replaced, the committee would have to consider what
type of materials to use... wood, fiberglass, etc.
Chair Henry asked if they know how make general skaters use the rink. Ms. Olson reviewed the
tally process with the Committee noting that they do not have numbers available for Cummings
because the rink did not have an attendant.
Chair Henry asked ifthe number hockey skaters would stay same or increase if there is a rink at
Cummings. Ms. Olson stated that they have found that residents take a liking to a certain rink
and utilize only that rink, noting that the residents tend to stay with that favorite and not change
rink to rink.
Chair Henry asked if the area residents utilize the rink at Cummings. Ms. Olson explained that
she did not have clear numbers noting that there have been some very strong opinions both ways.
She stated that this could be a very sensitive situation.
Chair Henry agreed with Mr. Moore that a survey ofthe area residents would be a good idea. He
suggested that the survey be done in such a way that it does not lead the residents to believe that
. it would be done. Committee Member Thompson agreed stating that they should include a
caveat that it would be contingent upon funding.
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Arden Hills Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meeting Minutes
March 23, 2004
Page 5 of 10
.
Chair Henry suggested looking into the possibility of donations from some of the local
businesses in the area in turn for advertising space on the boards.
Ms. Olson stated that if they decide to install the hockey boards it would be best to consider
replacement, as they do not want to lose the beauty of the new building. She stated that if they
install the hockey boards it should be done in such a way that the rink also adds enhancement to
the Park area and building.
Ms. Olson continued her Parks and Recreation Review:
. Valentine Park had a very nice rink this year. It was very well maintained but attendance
was not very high.
. Overall numbers are steady noting it is a lot of money to maintain rinks but the residents
are using them.
. Easter Egg Hunt is scheduled for April 3, 2004 at Cummings Park. She indicated that
they would use the new building for the event and reviewed with the Committee.
. Presently working on the 'Celebrating Arden Hills' summer event.
. She and Mr. Moore are co-chairing and Staff is also working on with them on the event.
. Currently doing fundraisers for the event noting that they have received approximately
. $7000 in donations.
. Will do the same format as last year and reviewed with the Committee.
. Stated that she would come back to the Committee to determine what they would like to
do to participate.
. Spoke with local businesses regarding the installation and posting of the Posters for the
event.
. White Sidewalls will be playing. Noted that Pat Kennedy, President of the White
Sidewalls recently passed away.
. Noted that between the posters and the ticket PR they are hoping for at least 500 or more
on ticket sales.
. Spring Summer Guide is out.
. Approximately 100 classes are included in the guide.
. Next focus will be to hire staffto accommodate the classes and spring/summer season.
. Noted that several interns would probably be returning.
. Reviewed field improvements noting that softball is set to kick off in April.
5. REVIEW - Trail Improvement Handout, February 24, 2004
Chair Henry stated that prior to their last meeting he had reviewed the Trail Improvement plans
and listed the grade separated trail connections and other trails included in the plan. He
suggested that the Committee review the trails and develop their priorities in an attempt to decide
. where their support should go. He reviewed the following grade trails with the Committee:
Arden Hills Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meeting Minutes
March 23, 2004
Page 6 of 10
. Highway 96 is not going to happen
.
. Two options for Hwy 10 but will have to wait to determine until improvements are
completed on Highway 10.
. 35W trail connections.
Chair Henry asked the Committee for their feedback on trail priorities.
Committee Member Crassweller asked ifhave any sense of where the natural flow of pedestrian
traffic is right now and if they have a way to determine the traffic. He suggested hiring a group
of people to go out and count foot traffic on the trails for period of time to determine the flow.
Chair Henry asked what would happen once the Tony Schmidt underpass occurs and would it
draw off Old Snelling. Committee Member Crassweller agreed stating that it would be nice to
know and suggested including that area in the count to try to determine the traffic patterns.
Chair Henry asked what they know about Railroad Bridge on 35W whether it would be possible
to place a trail. Mr. Moore explained that this area is a part of the Ramsey County Long Term
Plan for trails, in addition to the trail along Highway 96 to Long Lake Regional Park. He stated
that from a time frame point of view, the Railroad Bridge would be more worthwhile to pursue,
as Highway 96 is dependent on the intersection at Highway 10 and reviewed with the Committee.
- He noted that the Railroad Bridge would be impacted but not with as many complications.
Chair Henry asked what status of the West Round Lake Trail? Mr. Moore stated that the
connection is shaky at best. He explained that it is very close to the sanitary sewer easement
noting that the sewer easement was secured from the business owners with the written
understanding that there would be no foot traffic over the easements. He further explained that
normally, when the City has this type of easement the land belongs to the City and normally, the
City could do what they want within the easement. He stated that this particular easement was
not secured this way stating that the two business owners wanted a considerable amount of
money to allow the City t60 use their property. He explained that the only way they could come
up would be to use West Round Lake Road as it takes you down to the bridge, coming in from
the north.
Chair Henry asked if they could come in from the east by old 10. Mr. Moore stated that it would
be difficult, as they would have to go through land owned by a resident. He explained that the
residents are very reluctant to allow the City to place a trail connection in the area as they see that
the area could be developed for new homes.
Mr. Moore stated that the Railroad Bridge would be a great way to go forward noting that
funding could be an issue. He stated that funds would probably have to come from the Parks
Fund.
.
Arden Hil1s Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meeting Minutes
March 23, 2004
Page 7 of 10
. Mr. Moore suggested gaining support and involvement from Ramsey County. He noted that if
Ramsey County came into the project by contributing or helping to obtain a DNR grant would be
very helpful and reviewed the grant process with the Committee.
Chair Henry suggested prioritizing at least five connections.
Committee Member Straumann reviewed the trail connection along the Snelling Avenue
Frontage Road with the Committee. He stated that it would be nice to have an actual trail at
some point that connects them to RosevilIe noting that for a short-term temporary solution, they
should identify a connection that would lead to Roseville.
Committee Member Thompson asked for an update from the County regarding Lake Johanna
Boulevard.
Mr. Moore stated that the County has decided that there would be no further improvements made
to Lake Johanna Boulevard in the near future. This would include:
. No patching
. No curbs
. No trails
. No sweeping
. . No improvements for the next twenty years.
Mr. Moore noted that the road is in bad shape, is under-constructed and not wide enough adding
that it would be an engineering nightmare. He explained that the County is severely strapped for
money and they are only doing one project a year. He further explained that projects would have
to be bid out by all Cities in Ramsey County noting that the projects considered include major
intersections, freeways and highways and the smaller projects would receive minor consideration.
He stated that they would re-evaluate the Boulevard every five years.
Chair Henry referenced the trail along County Road E, west to New Brighton Boulevard stating
that ifthe passage way, under the Railroad Bridge, gets built, the Committee should determine
how to get people to the passage way. He noted that, at a minimum, they should try to figure out
how to get to the end ofthe diagonal trail to the bottom of hill.
Committee Member Crassweller agreed noting that it comes out at the end of the road. He stated
that they should be able to build a trail along that road to get them to Lake Johanna Boulevard.
Mr. Moore stated that it would be difficult to do as it is a County Road and Arden Hills has no
jurisdiction. He stated that Committee Member Straumann is a member of the Ramsey County
Parks Commission and suggested that he try to get on their agenda, or have Larry Holmberg or
Ted Mack attend a PTRC meeting to discuss possible trail connections. He stated that this would
. give them an idea of where the County is at prior to their discussion.
Arden Hills Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meeting Minutes
March 23, 2004
Page 8 of 10
. Chair Henry asked iftheyplan to do a trail along Old Snelling from 51 to Lake Johanna
Boulevard. Mr. Moore stated yes, when the road is reconstructed. He stated that they are having
a PMP meeting in two weeks to layout their five-year plan for City Council approval. He stated
that they would move Snelling A venue up on the schedule noting that the trail would be on the
east side. He noted that if there are engineering issues or problems with enough space the trail
would have to go on the other side. He stated that they could install crosswalks at Lindey's
Triangle adding that he cannot say for sure now until after they receive the Engineering Study.
Chair Henry asked about going north from Lake Johanna to County Road 96. Mr. Moore stated
that it would have to be done on the west side noting that in order to make this possible, it would
have to be a domino effect with respect to getting the underpass in as this would open everything
else up to go forward. He stated that they would have to partner with Ramsey County to get
some form of striping or creation of a new trail. He noted that they are limited on what they can
do because it is Ramsey County jurisdiction.
Committee Member Crassweller stated that there is one area that they do have jurisdiction over
which would be Valentine Road from Old Snelling up to the school. He stated that this is a
critical piece to the entire puzzle and urged the Committee to consider the area for priority. He
stated that they did try to do this a couple of years ago and met with opposition. He stated that
they should go forward with the trail anyways and reviewed his concerns with the Committee.
. Chair Henry agreed stating that this could end up being the only connection.
Committee Member Crassweller asked for further clarification of the $2 million dollar costs. Mr.
Moore explained that it would require acquisition of the property and reviewed with the
Committee.
Committee Member Crasswel1er stated that it was his understanding that they had easements.
Mr. Moore stated it is his understanding that they do not have easements. Chair Henry noted that
this trail connection should be one ofthe five prioritized areas. The Committee agreed.
Committee Member Crassweller suggested that the Committee consider a trail connection going
east from Old Snelling to connect to the path at Round Lake. He clarified that the City owns a
portion of the property. Mr. Moore confirmed and reviewed with the Committee.
Committee Member Crassweller suggested starting the discussions. Mr. Moore stated that they
could begin discussions noting that it would cost the City dollars.
Chair Henry referenced Ingerson Road/Hamline to Lexington. Committee Member Zilmer stated
that there are not paths along Ingerson Road. Chair Henry asked ifthere should be a trail in that
area. Committee Member Zilmer stated that it would be nice as the traffic flow moves pretty
quickly.
. Chair Henry asked ifthey are still talking about a back door entrance to Ingerson. Mr. Moore
confirmed that it is a part of the Edgewater PMP and reviewed.
Arden Hills Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meetiug Minutes
March 23,2004
Page 9 of 10
.
Chair Henry asked about north side of lake to west. Committee Member Crassweller stated that
there is a path located on the Shoreview side on Lexington.
Committee Member Straumann suggested a trail connection from Country Insurance to County
Road E. Mr. Moore suggested including this connection in their list of priorities.
Chair Henry noted Cleveland A venue from Hazel A venue to County Road D and asked if this
was already done. Mr. Moore confirmed and reviewed. Committee Member Straumann stated
that it is a part of the Guidant project. Mr. Moore confirmed stating that it would be from
Lexington to Highway 96 to Guidant. He stated that it would also include new sidewalks noting
that it is scheduled to happen in 2005.
Chair Henry asked if there would be any reason to place a trail along County Road F. Mr. Moore
confirmed that there would be noting that as a part ofthe Guidant project, Fernwood Avenue
would be vacated, which will be done this year. He explained that Femwood Avenue would be
covered and become a grass trail through Guidant campus, with gates at each end. He indicated
that Guidant has committed to keeping the gates open to allow for traffic along this area. The
Committee agreed that this connection should be included as one of the five priorities as it would
complete the loop.
. Chair Henry asked if there would be a chance to place a trail through the TCAAP area in order to
get to Highway 96 and the Rice Creek Trail. Mr. Moore stated that a trail through the TCAAP
area would not be possible.
Chair Henry asked about Perry Park to the High School. Mr. Moore stated that this area is
County property and that Arden Hills has no jurisdiction.
Committee Member Crassweller stated that he would like to see a trail to Mounds View included
on their list of priorities. He stated that they should make a connection across the swamp to the
County library. Committee Member Messerly stated that they did try to do that about a year ago
and the County turned them down. Mr. Moore stated that if they develop a partnership with
Ramsey County that relationship could help with the trail connections.
Chair Henry clarified that this is a list of trails that the PTRC would like to see completed. He
noted that the list would also provide them with an opening to begin conversations with the
County. He noted that ifthey want to approach the County the Committee should come to the
table with more than just an idea.
Mr. Moore agreed stating that they could utilize their influence on the Ramsey County Parks
Committee with respect to funding and also suggested matching funds as an option.
. Committee Member Straumann suggested that they get the underpass completed and then
approach the County.
Arden Hills Parks, Trails aod Recreation Committee Meeting Miuutes
March 23,2004
Page 10 of 10
.
Chair Henry asked if anyone is having conversations with Northwestern regarding possible trail
connections. Mr. Moore stated that he would open discussions with Northwestern and update the
Committee.
Chair Henry suggested that the Committee try to draft an agenda with Ramsey County for
discussion after they receive the minutes of the meeting. The Committee agreed.
Chair Henry reviewed the discussion noting that the Committee has decided the top four trails to
consider include the following:
. Crepeau Park-Tiller Lane-Hamline to Roseville border
. Pine Tree Drive between County Road E & Crepeau Park at Harriet Ave
. Valentine Road-Old Snelling to Mounds View High School
. From Floral Park, along Hamline to County Road F to Lexington
6. OTHER ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION
NONE
. 7. NEXT MEETING AGENDA
. Trail connection prioritization.
8. ADJOURNMENT
Committee Member Crassweller motioned, seconded by Committee Member Thompson, to
adjourn the meeting at 8:12 p.m. Motion carried unanimously.
Respectfully submitted,
Bonita Sullivan
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
.