HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-28-05 PTRC Minutes
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ARDEN HILLS
APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
TUESDAY, JUNE 28, 2005 7:00 P.M.
ARDEN HILLS CITY HALL
1245 WEST HIGHWAY 96
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Henry called the June 28, 2005 meeting of the Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee to
order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Bill Henry, Committee Members Larmy Baumarm, Jim
Crassweller, Dave McClung, Rich Straumarm, Joani Werner, Cindy Wheeler, Roger Williams
and Steve Zilmer.
OTHERS PRESENT: Tom Moore, Operations & Maintenance Director; Gregg Larson, City
Council Liaison; and Bonita Sullivan, Recording Secretary.
. MEMBERS NOT PRESENT: COlmnittee Member Derrek Hames.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Agenda was approved by consensus.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
. Approve May 24, 2005 Minutes.
MOTION: Committee Member Crassweller motioned, seconded by Committee Member
Williams to approve the May 24,2005 minutes as presented. The motion carried
unanimously.
COUNCIL UPDATE
Council Liaison Larson provided the Commission with a brief update on the following Council
acti viti es:
. Council approved the Conditional Use Permit for the Holiday Stationstore to be located on
the south side of Highway 96 and the east side of35W.
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PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREA nON COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 28, 2005 Page 2 of 10
. . The Council spent a lot time discussing the type of building materials that would be used
noting that this is a gateway area leading into Arden Hills. The location includes a lot of
landscaping and no tall signs.
. The City made an offer of $35 million to GSA Services. GSA Services turned down the offer
noting that they plan to get a new appraisal for the property. City Council has decided that
they want their own appraisal done on the property and have authorized staff to move forward
with that process. He stated that once they can agree on a base land value, there would be
some deductions for cleanup.
. City had their annual audit and received a clean bill of health.
. Rezoned the old City Hall site from R-l to neighborhood business. The City received a
purchase agreement from a developer who wants to build a business park.
. Council discussed the proposed smoking policy. He noted that there were some reservations
expressed by some ofthe Council members including how it would affect Ramsey County's
Tony Schmidt Park and City jurisdiction; should it also apply to trails and parks; and is there
enough open space. He stated that Council recommended that Staff prepare a policy and
present to Council for review at their next work session in July.
Mr. Moore stated that they contacted Ramsey County to clarify the jurisdiction and they were
advised that the City does not have jurisdiction. He explained that Tony Schmidt Park is a
separate entity and under Ramsey County jurisdiction. He stated that Ramsey County would
. have to pass their own tobacco- free policy that would apply to all parks under Ramsey County
jurisdiction. He stated that currently Ramsey County does not have a tobacco-free policy in
affect for their parks and trails.
Committee Member Crassweller stated that he would like it clarified for the record that he was
very opposed to the tobacco-free policy. He explained that by having a policy without
enforcement makes for bad public policy and opens the door for fights.
Committee Member McClung referenced a new development noting that the plans currently
show them building within 10-feet of an identified pathway. He expressed concerns stating that
they should not be allowing developers to build that close to the pathways and trails
Chair Henry asked if this is a paved trail and what is the route. Committee Member McClung
stated that the path starts at Highway 96, crosses Colleen, then Norma and ends at Floral Park.
He stated that it is a paved trail with a backyard setback. He noted that this would be 10-feet
from a commercial site and there would be no residential use.
Chair Henry asked ifthere is an ordinance that identifies what the setback should be. Committee
Member McClung stated that it should be 30-feet from the property line noting that the trails are
within an easement to the property.
Committee Member Crassweller stated that he does not have a problem with trails being 10-feet
. from a business when they have the same situation near many of the residential areas.
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 28, 2005 Page 3 of 10
. Committee Member McClung stated that he is concerned about this issue and plans to raise this
issue to the Planning Commission as it feels as if it would create a tunncl affect along that area
and feels this would be bad policy.
Committee Member Williams asked how the developers reacted to his concerns.
Committee Member McClung stated that there wasn't much of a reaction noting that their
suggestion for helping to straighten out the trail would involve removing two mature trees, which
is unacceptable. He stated that the Plarming Commission had postponed any further decision
until July because they felt that they needed more time to consider the proposal.
Committee Member Wheeler asked ifthere are any runoff or drainage issues. Committee
Member McClung stated that there are some drainage problems on the site and noted that he does
not know how they plan to address it.
Committee Member Wheeler asked how much of the lot would the building use and does it
exceed the allowable amount. Committee Member McClung clarified that it does not meet the
green space calculations. He stated that the City Manager is proposing a plan that would bring it
up to requirement noting that this would be discussed at the next Plarming Commission meeting.
MOTION: Committee Member Wheeler motioned, second by Committee Member McClung,
. to recommend that the trail on the west side of the old City Hall property not be
adversely affected by runoff of the property or other factors of the development.
The motion carried unanimously.
4. PARKS AND TRAILS UPDATES
Mr. Moore provided the Committee with the following update:
. Provided the Committee with a list of paved trails. He explained that the top page is a list of
distances for the paved trails and the second page is a list of trails they plan to work on as far
as brush back.
. The City takes possession of the Perry Park Pavilion the first week in July.
. All items on the punch list have been corrected and the pavilion will be handed over to the
City and then opened to the public.
. Have fields already scheduled for use and the pavilion will be included on the rental list like
Cummings Park.
. Had a discussion with the Little League organization regarding the updating ofthe fields. He
stated tlut they canle up with an approximate $30,000.00 in repair and upgrade costs that
would be paid for by the Little League.
. Cut the prairie grasses outside City Hall and planted additional plugs. Noted that the grasses
are very healthy for their second year of growth.
. Mr. Moore stated that he would like to clarify his role in the process for the PTRC. He explained
that Committee Member McClung had contacted the City Administrator to discuss his concerns
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PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREA nON COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 28, 2005 Page 4 of 10
. regarding my performance with the PTRC and also sent an email documenting his thoughts
regarding my performance with regards to the motion. He explained that he used his own
judgment and decided not to bring the PTRC's motion, specifically as stated, to City Council
because he knew the motion would not pass as stated. He explained that he asked Council to
give Staff permission to come up with a recommendation to PTRC. He acknowledged that it was
the wrong decision and that he probably should have brought the recommendation to Council as
stated and let the chips fall where they may.
Mr. Moore stated that another issue to consider is that the City Council looks at the PRTC as a
Committee that is very aggressive in their desires and that some of the Council Members view
him as the lead in an effort to satisfy his own agenda through this Committee. He expressed
concerns stating that this shouldn't happen this way noting that he has been trying to work away
from this point of view. He clarified that his role is that of Staff Liaison to this Committee
noting that he has two concerns that he would like clarified. First, does the PTRC feel that he did
wrong by not presenting the recommendation as stated or does he have the opportunity to use his
best judgment on behalf of the PTRC; and second, Is it appropriate for a Committee Member to
go to the City Administrator and criticize a member without discussing it with the rest ofthe
Committee first.
Committee Member Williams stated that he feels that both are wrong. He stated that the reason
they have a Chair position is to provide the Committee and Council with a liaison. He stated that
. Committee Member McClung should have contacted Chair Henry to discuss his concerns and the
process. He expressed concerns stating that beating up on staffis not a positive action by a
Committee Member because staff are the ones who help make things happen at all levels.
Committee Member Werner agreed. She stated that it is her understanding that fielding
complaints is part of the role of the Chair and all complaints should go to the Chair of the PTRC.
She stated that Mr. Moore has been nothing but supportive to the PTRC and their efforts and
believes that he should be able to use his best judgment on behalf of the PTRC.
Committee Member McClung stated that how complaints should be presented should be
discussed. He questioned why the PTRC makes motions, takes votes or has a minute-taker if
what they recommend is not clearly presented to Council. He stated that the issue is the wording
of the proposed policy.
Chair Henry stated that it is his understanding that this was discussed at a Council work session
and that the matter on the table was a suggestion by the Council to direct staffto develop a
policy. He stated that it is his understanding that the recommended policy that came out of this
Committee is what we would hope staff would bring back to Council in pursuit of the
recommended direction. He stated that he trusts Mr. Moore to use his best judgment in pursuing
recommendations made by this Committee.
. Committee Member Crassweller clarified that the issue here is what is appropriate for Mr. Moore
to do. He suggested that in the future, before presenting PTRC issues to Council, that Mr. Moore
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 28. 2005 Page 5 of 10
. discuss how it would be presented with the Chair and Committee. He stated that as far as he is
concerned, it is inappropriate for anyone on this Committee (0 go to anyone outside of this
Committee to discuss concerns about a PTRC recommendation or process.
Committee Member McClung explained that he was angry and disagrees with the
inappropriateness. He stated that it is his belief that he should be able to talk to anyone he wants
to on the Councilor the City regarding his concerns.
Chair Henry clarified the point stating that it is his firm beliefthat an individual member of the
Committee has no standing, only as a collective do they have a standing. He stated that if there is
an issue it should be addressed as a Committee not as an individual. He agreed that as an
individual a citizen could discuss any issue or concern with a Council Member but not as a
Committee Member.
Council Liaison Larson expressed his agreement Witll Committee Member Williams. He stated
tllat this group works best as an advocacy group and that they do their best job when advocating
for parks as a group. He agreed that Mr. Moore should have brought the motion forward as
stated noting that if this Committee takes an action the Council should know about it. He noted
that in the end it seems that what this City wants is a no smoking policy in (he parks and
everyone has to work together to determine how the City will get there.
. Mr. Moore stated that he would make sure to go through the Chair with all issues and concerns in
the future. He explained that his goal was for Council to give staff authorization to proceed with
the process and place the policy on the Consent Calendar for presentation at the next Council
meeting. He indicated that one ofthe Council Members had issues with smoking on the trails
and also suggested restricting certain areas versus tlle overall park area. He assured the
Committee that he would present this to Council as a policy and apologized for the
misunderstandings. He stated that he has learned from this mistake and now knows his
boundaries.
5. RECREATION UPDATE
Mr. Moore provide the Committee with the following update:
. Summer Programs are up and running.
. Adult softball continues to go strong at Perry Park.
. The facility rental at Cumming Park is now rented every weekend.
. The fall Recreation Guide will be coming out shortly.
. Celebrating Arden Hills event went very welL Sold 380 tickets and noted that a ticket sellout
would be 400 tickets to the event.
. All of the events were very well attended and the fireworks display was phenomenal. Fund
raising was $5000.00 ahead oflast years pace for corporate donations. He noted that the
event is basically paid for from the corporate donations (he City receives.
. . Total budget for the event is approximately $45-$50,000.
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PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 28, 2005 Page 6 of 10
. . Staff and the workers held a meeting to discuss the event and have already reserved the band,
petting zoo and games for next year.
. Largest expense for the event was the catering bill for the dinner. He stated that the dinner is
a money-losing event and they are reconsidering it for next year.
. Staff plans to make a presentation to City Council at their next work session that would
include some possibilities and suggestions for next year's event.
. They have scheduled the fireworks company for next year and are also considering them for a
possible event for the annual Neighborhood Night Out.
Committee Member Williams asked if Ramsey County Parks views this as a positive for their
parks. Mr. Moore confirmed that they do noting that they do charge them for holding the event.
6. General Discussion - Trails Connections and Priorities
Chair Henry noted that there appears to be some openness to conversation regarding the viaduct
and the potential for widening the bridge over 5 I and County Road E down to Old Snelling,
under the railroad viaduct near Tony Schmidt. He stated that Old Snelling is starting to look
more like a corridor and suggested that the PTRC keep a closer eye on the area.
Committee Member McClung noted that this is the spine that connects east and west noting that
. in terms of the future this is the most important aspect to tying things together. He noted that
they are looking at doing Old Snelling in the 2007 timeframe.
Chair Henry asked tlle Committee to think about this as they begin to review their priorities. He
noted that most of the neighborhoods in Arden Hills are cutoff by the highways and this could be
an opportunity to break out of this.
Committee Member Crassweller agreed noting that it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out
where the trails would come in and connect. He stated that the issue is the will and the means to
accomplish this.
Committee Member Williams stated that it would really help him ifhe knew where the trails
were abutting Arden Hills so that he can be a bit more creative in helping determine how to link
into trail systems outside of Arden Hills.
Committee Member Crassweller indicated that these connections are already almost there noting
that if they had a trail across the bridge it would connect Arden Hills to Shoreview. He stated
that the problem he is fighting with is that they did try to get a system that would connect Old
Arden Hills with the New Arden Hills and it was voted down. He expressed concerns stating
that they have a system that is not connected within our own system or regionally.
Chair Henry asked Mr. Moore to provide the Committee with a map that shows the trail
. connections and where they abut to other Cities.
PARKS. TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 28, 2005 Page 7 of 10
. Committee Member Wheeler suggested that the PTRC also review their priorities.
Chair Henry clarified that they Committee should review their priorities as it pertains to how they
can make the regional connections.
7. Budget
Mr. Moore provided the PTRC members with a copy of the Capitalln1provement Plan for 2005
through 2009 as presented to the City Council.
Committee Member Crassweller clarified his understanding that there is no money allocated for
parks and that there are no scheduled capital improvements for the Parks Department in 2007,
2008 or 2009. Mr. Moore confirmed with the exception of the reconstruction of Snelling for
$1.4 noting that there would be trails installed with this project.
Committee Member Crassweller stated that this is where they should begin to educate them that
the dollars are needed in order to meet their vision. He expressed concerns that no funds have
been allocated for the Parks or for trail improvements for the next three years.
Mr. Moore confirmed that they currently have a three-year gap where they do not need to spend
any money for the replacement of park benches or play structures.
. Committee Member Wheeler suggested that they develop the vision and then place it into the
budget process. She suggested lobbying with the public for possible bond funding.
Committee Member McClung suggested ajoint meeting with City Council.
Committee Members Werner and Williams suggested scheduling a PTRC work session before
meeting with any other groups for discussion.
Committee Members Crassweller and Wheeler volunteered to work on the process.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if the seal-coating project is worth the money and whether it
would be better spent on other things in the City.
Mr. Moore stated that the seal-coating process is considered to be an important part of the
lifecycle process of the street. He reviewed the seal-coating process with the Committee noting
that Arden Hills uses a heavier material than most other Cities.
Chair Henry agreed that it would make sense for the PTRC to discuss the budget in context to
their vision and what it would mean for their priorities.
. Committee Member Williams clarified that the only appropriation offunds in 2005 is the
$53,000 allocated towards the park underpass and that next year's allocation is $12,000 with no
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 28, 2005 Page 8 of 10
. plans for new trail construction. Mr. Moore confirmed. Committee Member Williams expressed
concerns stating that it is time for the PTRC to get to work.
Mr. Moore noted that the County Road E bridge improvements project is dependent upon the
City qualifying for grant money. He explained that the $200,000 would be maintained in the
budget as a placeholder with the idea that tlle City would apply for the grant every year. He
indicated that the Council has directed staff to move forward with the application process and to
apply for the grant every year.
Chair Henry asked if the grant is specific to one side of the road or other. Council Liaison
Larson explained that they held it in reserve as to what side of the road it would go on when they
sent in the initial application.
Committee Member Crassweller suggested that they clarify in the application that they want the
trail installed on the south side.
Mr. Moore suggested that if they could show the critical importance and that this is a missing
link to a major trail system that they could probably also receive a priority rating and move the
proj ect into 2007.
Council Liaison Larson stated that he did suggest to Council during a work session that one of
. the PTRC's priorities is obtaining permanent capital funding for the parks and trails. He assured
the Committee that he would continue to push the discussion for funding.
Chair Henry asked ifthere should be an identifiable place where the dollars would come from
when funding a park project. Council Liaison Larson explained that some of the operating funds
come from the General Fund for armual costs and park maintenance. He stated that the capital
improvements come from other funds such as the Park Dedication Fees noting that this would
not be an available source for funding anymore. He stated that it is important to try and
determine a way for more capital funds. He stated that it is also important to integrate the old
Arden Hills with the new Arden Hills.
Committee Member Williams asked what process the Council uses for bonding. Council Liaison
Larson stated that historically there has not been a lot of support for bonding from the public or
from the Council.
Chair Henry asked if they are doing anything for Frisbee Golf. Mr. Moore stated that he is
looking into it as a fall project but has not had any conversations or discussions at this time.
Committee Member Williams noted that the most recent issue of the City newsletter had a
column on buck thorn adding that it was his understanding that the PTRC had discussed
promoting a fall project involving an organized effort to get a group together to remove buck
~ thorn. He stated that there was no mention of the project in the newsletter and asked if this was
still on their agenda for fall.
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETrNG
JUNE 28, 2005 Page 9 of 10
. Mr. Moore stated that he had mentioned the project and it was suggested that it would be better
to come back at a later time. He stated that they would include a separate article in the August
newsletter.
8. NEXT MEETING AGENDA
Chair Henry suggested including a bullet item to discuss how the PTRC could contribute to
bringing about positive changes in Arden Hills.
Committee Member Williams suggested that they identify what they want to accomplish and
work to create their vision for presentation to the Council. He noted that if they can get the
people to buy into their vision that is when things begin to happen.
Committee Member McClung suggested discussing how the City integrates new development
with a well-developed Park and Recreation plan. He suggested asking for clarification on how
comes to the City.
Committee Member Crassweller asked how they would communicate their concerns to Council.
He expressed concerns stating that they need to begin discussions ifthey are going to have a trail
system tllat connects with Shoreview and New Brighton.
. Committee Member Williams suggested getting feedback and input from the Planning
Commission and incorporate their point of view in tlle process.
Committee Member McClung suggested including an agenda item that would initiate a
discussion around future parks, trails and development. He suggested discussing TCAAP and
how they would work together to integrate and from there move into discussions with more
detail.
Council Liaison Larson noted that the Committee has the groundwork laid for their vision and
suggested that they identify what it is that they want to accomplish in the next five years.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that she would like to get buy in from the community. She
stated that too often what she sees is government doing what is considered to be good politics
versus good policy and ifthey could get buy-in from the Community it could them provide them
with a broader support base.
Chair Henry agreed stating that it would provide the PTRC with a good framework and it would
place the Committee into a more proactive role versus reactive. He stated that he would draft an
agenda and forward to each member for their feedback. He stated that he would also forward a
copy to the Planning Commission for their input.
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PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 28, 2005 Page 10 of 10
. Committee Member Williams noted the work Ramsey County recently did to improve the path
along Lake J oharma and asked if it would be appropriate for someone from the City to
acknowledge and thank them for their work. Chair Henry agreed stating that he would contact
Ramsey County and thank them on behalf of the PTRC and the City of Arden Hills.
The Committee agreed by consensus to hold the July PTRC meeting at Perry Park.
9. ADJOURNMENT
Committee Member Williams motioned, Committee Member Crassweller seconded, to adjourn
the meeting at 9:00 p.m. Motion carried unanimously.
Respectfully submitted,
Bonita Sullivan
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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