HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-26-05 PTRC Minutes
-----------
. --
~fIIBLS
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
JOINT MEETING OF THE
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE
AND THE
PLANNING COMMISSION
TUESDAY, JULY 26, 2005 7:00 P.M.
CUMMINGS PARK RECREATIONAL FACILITY
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Henry called the July 26, 2005 joint meeting of the Parks, Trails and Recreation
Committee and Plamring Commission to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: PTRC: Chair Bill Henry; Committee Mcmbers Lanny Baumann, Jim
Crassweller, Derrek Hames, Dave McClung, Rich StraummID, Joani Wemer, Cindy Wheeler,
Roger Williams and Steve Zilmer.
Planning Commission: Chair Dave Sand; Vice Chair Clayton Zimmerman; Planning
Commission Members Clay Larson, Elizabeth Modesette, Roberta Thompson and Dave
McClung.
. OTHERS PRESENT: Tom Moore, Operations mld Maintenance Director; Michelle Olson,
Parks and Recreation Supervisor; Scott Clark, Community Development Director; Peter
Hellegers, City Planner; Greg Brown, City Engineer; and Bonita Sullivan, Recording Secretary.
MEMBERS NOT PRESENT:
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Agenda was approved by consensus.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
. Approve June 28, 2005 Minutes.
MOTION: The Committee approved the June 28, 2005 minutes as presented by consensus.
The motion carried unanimously.
3 PRIORITIES
Chair Henry stated that the PTRC is currently working to develop a mission statement and a list
of project priorities for the City parks and open spaces that would be based on the Committee's
suggestions and recommendations for the Comprehensive Plan. He further explained that the
. PTRC is trying to create a vision and a process for the Committee to bring issues forward to
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREA nON COMMITTEE MEETING
. JULY 26, 2005 Page 2 of7
Council for consideration. He stated that the Committee would like to jointly discuss ideas on
how to stimulate funding while developing trail connections in various parts of the City. He
stated that the Committee is working through the pieces, noting that there is a need to get the big
picture and then work to determine how to improve what is already there. He stated that the
PTRC, as a Committee, is interested in teaming what the Planning Commission's priorities are
and see how it works together with the PTRC goals.
Commissioner Sand stated that the Planning Commission is interested in knowing what the
PTRC priorities are and what the Committee would recommend with respect to maintaining what
the City already has.
Mr. Moore reviewed the trail maintenance process stating that they are starting to maintain the
trails the same way they do for City streets. He explained that the maintenance process is done
on an annual basis noting that the trails are crack-sealed annually and next year seal-coating for
the trails would be included as a budgeted item. He referenced the signage noting that staff
would have samples of the new design for trail signs available for review noting that the signs
would be similar, in design, to the existing park signs. He indicated that the signs would be
installed in September.
Chair Henry asked the Planning Commissioners to review their priorities for the City of Arden
Hills.
. Commissioner Zimmerman stated that the Planning Commission is moving towards a more
proactive process in how the City reacts to various requests and reviewed with the Committee.
Commissioner Sand confirmed noting that the Commission has been working through some of
the major City projects with the Economic Development Authority. He stated that much of their
work is based on reaction to development requests adding that the Commission has been
discussing the idea of updating the design guidelines and standards for PUD projects. He stated
that thc guidelines currently list certain types of materials noting that stucco-type products are
not included in the current guidelines. He referenced TCAAP stating that one of their
recommendations is to hire a consultant to assist the City in determining and updating the design
guidelines.
Community Development Director Clark concurred noting that the City still has a 20-percent
vision plan that would require further clarification of specifications and would involve coming to
an agreement on housing densities, infrastructure, and traffic impacts. He stated that each would
have a redevelopment design guideline attached and reviewed.
Chair Henry asked if there is a master plan that the Planning Commission works from.
Commissioner Sand stated that the Planning Commission works with what is outlined within the
Comprehensive Plan.
Community Development Director Clark stated that one of the bigger issues for the City is
development in and of itself, in terms of acceptance within the community. He stated that when
.
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREA nON COMMITTEE MEETING
. JULY 26, 2005 Page 3 of7
looking to the future there is a need to come to some type of 'value' understanding in terms of
how the City would deal with development projects.
Conunissioner Sand agreed stating that the City of Arden Hills is somewhat divided in its
population where a portion of the population wants Arden Hills to remain rural and a portion of
the population would like to have more modernization and amenities provided_ He stated fuat
the City has housing and operating needs noting that there is an opportunity here to better
educate fue Community as the City works through this process.
Commissioner Thompson agreed stating that there is a real need to determine what the vision is
for the City of Arden Hills. She explained that by not having a clear vision of what the City
wants for its' future creates a form of competition between those who want the area to remain
rural and those who would like to see some amenities brought into the City. She stated that
having a clear vision would help to give a better understanding of what is happening within the
residential and commercial communities of Arden Hills.
Committcc Member Hames suggested that Planning Commission review the City's track record
on various developments and fue reactions offue community to that development as a part of the
process for developing guidelines and standards.
Commissioner Zimmerman clarified the Planning Commission's basic responsibilities noting
. that it is fue Commission's responsibility to review new development proposals and requests to
ensure that they follow the guidelines outlined within the Comprehensive Plan.
Chair Hemy asked what the Planning Commission's vision is for the Parks and Trails north of
Highway 96.
Community Development Director Clark explained fuat this would be part of the 20-percent
noting that the plan is clear that the main trail, internal to the TCAAP area, would go along and
connect to Rice Creek corridqr. He stated fuat in reviewing this trail both fue PTRC and the
Planning Commission would have to determine where to connect this trail in thc south areas of
the City. He stated that fue City has to review and update the Comprehensive Plan noting that
the changes are due to the Metropolitan Council by 2008. He suggested incorporating all of
these items into the Comprehensive Plan noting that this would give them the ability to tie some
of these items together for a better overall vision and plan.
Commissioner Sand commended the PTRe for park and trail signage noting that this is fue best
thing that has happened for the Parks in over ten years. He referenced the TCAAP property and
urged the Committee to really listen to the residents of Arden Hills as they start the process of
planning for this area. He stated that the City, fue Commissions and Committees should listen to
the needs of the people who live and work in this area before they hear fue needs of groups
outside of Arden Hills.
Committee Member Williams agreed and proposed a closer relationship between the Planning
Commission and PTRC as they mov.e closer to the planning process for the TCAAP property.
.
----
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
. JULY 26, 2005 Page4of7
Community Development Director Clark indicated that the Economic Development Commission
is currently discussing the TCAAP area noting that ultimately the area would have to be
renamed. He stated that discussions would soon begin to discuss the marketing and promotion of
the area. He stated that this process would be done in stages with the first being how to promote
name recognition for the City of Arden Hills and secondly determine the name for the
development. He stated that the sports facility concept is one of the big issues that would be
discnssed noting that it has always been very clear that the City of Arden Hills is not going to
purchase the property. He stated that currently the discussions have been very general in nature
adding that the initial discussion is planned for the September City Council work session and
encouraged both groups to attend the work session and listen to the discussion.
City Planner Hellegers invited the PTRC to participate in the annual Planning Commission bus
tour. He statcd that he would forward an email to each of the Committee Members that would
include the dates, times, and subj ects of the tours.
4. OTHER ITEMS
A. Highway 10 Bridge
City Engineer Brown stated that he has preparcd a budget view to detennine the feasibility of
what a trail placed under the CP Rail Bridge would cost. He indicated that this has been a
. concern for several years and recently came up in a discussion with the Council as a part of the
ongoing County Road E discussion. He explained that he contacted the County and CP Railroad
to discuss thc bridge and the finances. He indicated that the proposed trail was approved as long
as it did not impact the bridge. He stated that they did a quick structural review of the bridge
abutment and pier and determined that they could install a trail six to eight foot trail between the
abutment and pier. He indicated that CP reviewed the proposal approximately one month ago
and came back to the City stating that the trail looked feasible and that they were comfortable
with the possibility of adding the trail. He stated that the rough cost estimate is approximately
$130,000, plus an additional $100,000 for a path to the wetlands area for a total minimum cost of
$230,000. He indicated that he spoke with Mr. Moore and Ms. Olson regarding the costs and it
was determined that the next logical step would be to determine the budget and whether it would
be viable to run the trail up to County Road E and the Vento crosswalk. He stated that the
Master Plan does include a trail that would go all the way up to Highway 96 adding that there is
talk of pushing this project out to 2007. He noted that the roadway up to and north of the
railroad bridge is already curb and guttered, which would require minimal grading with a two-
foot buffer strip. He stated that the City's first interest was to present an option for a crossing
over the bridge and thcn shoot for a County Road E or a Highway 96 connection. He noted that
Highway 96 is a regional trail and it is their hope that there would be some fonn of connection
with County Road E. He reviewed the State funding process and trail size with the Committee
and Planning Commission. He indicated that an 8-foot trail would be an acceptable width that
would allow multiple nses and would include a few additional restrictions on clear zones and
safety zones. He stated that this could add some additional costs to the project noting that it
would be matched with State aid funding. He asked the PTRC to review the proposal and
provide the Planning Commission with their feedback.
.
--.---..----- --------
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
. JULY 26, 2005 Page 5 on
Committee Member Hames asked if anyone has looked at the pattern of use noting that both
Bethel and the High School utilize the east side both ways. He explained that traditionally
people who use this area tend to cross at County Road E2 and sometimes at Valentine, which is a
pretty dangerous traffic area that extends from the Railroad Bridge. He noted that County Road
E2 is congested pretty much all day and expressed concerns about the safety of the residents.
City Engineer Brown stated that if the trail is curbed or protected by a buffer the site line and
safety issues should go away.
Committee Member Hames asked if there would be any liability issues with Bethel. City
Engineer Brown clarified that the road is a County road and that Ramsey County would carry the
liability.
Commissioner Thompson asked if there has been any discussion with Bethel College as to how
the crosswalk is used. She suggested considering a pedestrian cross bridge. Ms. Olson noted
that the pedestrian cross bridge was considered as an option through City Council and reviewed.
City Enginecr Brown clarified that Ms. Olson and City Administrator Wolfe are looking for
budget recommendations noting that County roads are eligible for state funding and could be
matched.
. Committee Member McClung stated that this is an important connector adding that if there is a
way to possibly do something along Snelling up to County Road E where the City would have
connections east/west and north/south then the City would be tied together and they could then
move forward to try to COlUlect into the regional trail system. He stated that this should be
designated a high priority item and that the PTRC should continue to push for the trail
connections.
Chair Henry asked what would happen to Highway 10 south of Highway 96. City Engineer
Brown explained that Highway 10 would go over the top and Old Highway 10 would intersect
with the existing frontage road. Hc further explained that it would then becomc a four-way
intersection onto Highway 96 and that it would maintain a contiguous four-lane intersection. He
indicated that there is approximately 30 to 40 feet of right-of-way along this area and reviewed.
Chair Hemy asked if there would be an entrance into the TCAAP area at Highway 96.
Community Development Director Clark stated that the entrance would come across from North
Heights Lutheran and the other location would be an overpass on Highway 10, or west of
Highway 10 and Highway 96.
Committee Member Williams noted the possibilities and asked what the next step would be to
keep this proposal moving forward.
City Engineer Brown indicated that the City could reasonably ask for the CP Railroad passage
and then try to build something that would connect to Highway 96. He noted that one of the
. problems with going beyond this point is due to the rural nature of the area beyond this point.
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
"::-, JULY 26, 2005 Page 6 of7
.'
He noted that if the road is urbanized they could bring in curbing as a barrier versuS a ditch and
reviewed. He stated that if they do a curb the drainage issues would also have to be address
noting that this could all be packaged into one request for T21. He urged the PTRC to
communicate their ideas and suggestions to the City.
Conununity Development Director Clark noted that the PTRC should take some form of action
this evening if they want to get something in front of Council for consideration, as the Council
plans to discuss this item at their first meeting in August.
City Engineer Brown asked if it is key for the trail to be 8-feet or 6-feet. Chair Henry stated that
ifthey are going to do the trail they should do it at 8-feet.
Commissioner Zimmerman suggested putting together a packet that identifies each priority
within the project and its associated costs_ He explained that this would provide an avenue to
include everything they want adding that it could end up that all or a portion of the project would
be approved.
Conunissioner Sand clarified with City Engineer Brown that his figures are assuming an
either/or option. City Engineer Brown confirmed and suggested that they either decide to do one
side at a time or do both sides at the same time.
e Chair Henry asked City Engineer Brown if it would make more sense to focus on one side first.
City Engineer Brown stated that either way, the project would be expensive. He stated that he is
leaning towards the decision to pick one spot, near County Road E2, design a connection that is
as safe as possible and them move south.
Motion by Committee Member McClung, Second by Committee Member Zihner, to
recommend, as high priority, that the City Council investigate a trail from County Road E
through the Bridge to Highway 96 and to direct staff to determine funding options_ Motion
carried unanimously.
The Planning Commissioners agreed with and supports the recommendation and motion made by
the PTRC
B. Gateway Signs
Mr. Moore stated that the Council has directed Staff to come up with designs for the Gateway
signage. He stated that he has three design options for the Conunittee to review.
Committee Member Hames stated that the City Council has approved one location for the
gateway sign at County Road D and Cleveland. He explained that the sign couldn't be larger
than four feet. He reviewed each option with the Committee noting that all utilize the Kasota
stone in various ways. He noted that the examples are drawn to scale adding that Option 2 meets
all of the requirements for the gateway sign. He explained that the width of the sign could vary
depending on the proportions noting that the design they choose would be used at all locations.
. He reviewed the materials noting that all signs would be a colored cement or stncco finish with
---.-.-
PARKS, TRAILS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JULY 26, 2005 Page 7 of7
.
green lettering adding that Option 2 would fit the best, especially with the County Road D and
Cleveland restrictions.
The Committee took a simple vote to determine each option and determined that Option 2 would
fit the best and recommended moving forward with Option 2.
Commissioner Sand asked if the signs would be lit. Committee Member Hames explained that
the signs would have ground lighting that would sit at a 45-degree angle from ground level.
The Committee agreed, by consensus, to recommend approval of Option 2 as the sign design for
the Gateway Signs. Motion carried unanimously.
9. NEXT MEETING AGENDA
None.
10. ADJOURNMENT
The Committee agreed, by consensus, to adjourn the meeting 9:06 p.m. Motion carried
unanimously.
. Respectfully submitted,
Bonita Sullivan
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc_
.