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Home My WebLink AboutCC 10-12-1959 (2)• MItWTES OF REGULAR MEETING COUNCIL OF THE VILIAGE OF ARDEN HILIS MONDAY, OCTOBER 12,. 1959 The meeting was called to order at 8:10 p.m. by Ntagor Aahbach. Roll call: Present; pehbach, Crepeau, Kennedy, DeIange, Stromquist Absent; none . The minutea of the 5eptember 28, 1959 meeting were approvad as �ubmitted. A request of Mr. Donald Roberts to put a cabinet shop on the commercial property at County Road E betuveen Hamline and Lexington Avenue was re- ferred to Public Welfare Committee. . A public hearing was held on Highway I,�gout and Profile 2A, Vicinitq of Arden Hills from 5nellipg Avenue to Jct. FAI 694, S.P. 6216-30 (T.H.51=125) Mr. N.cCubrey explained layout and answered questions from Council apd floor. Council requested a bridga or diamond at County Road E for access from So�:th to Lexington Avenue and to Village commercial area. Highwag Department to study Village request. p public hearing was held on Highwap Layout and �'rofile 9�, Vicinitq of Cleveland AVenue, S.P. 6284 (35W.394). N.r. NicCubrey explained that this revised plan is a little different from one formerly given preliminary approval by Council. Mr. Bordeaua questioned distancea on map as it appeared the new plan cut his property in two parts between Cleveland and Round Iake. It appeared the highway might take away access to one residence location on shore of Round Lake. Council aoted to etudy ruatter until next regular meeting. A public hearing wae held on the proposad 1960 Village budget as pre- sented,by Stromquist, F�inance Committee chairman. NIayor Ashbach reported that the �illage � 11 rate should show little change if the budget was passed as proposed. After discussion of budget motion made by Strom- quist, seconded by Kennedy tYa t the atteched resolution re. 1860 tax levy be approved and submitted to Ramsey County Auditor. Motion pessed. Peter Popovich, Fiscal Agent for sewer, recommended to Council that we sell bonds in an amount of �120,000.00 to finance Sewer ImpT. #1, Projects 1 and 2. •Upon motion by Crepeau, seconded by DeI.�nge, the resolution re, bond sale as attached was approved. Moti on-passed. q meeting for bond sale was set for November 3, 1959 at 7:00 p.m. at the Village Hall. Engineer Carley presented Council with 12 copies of Village street maps. Additional copies may be ordered if needed at any time. •Mr. Gearge Weber, Chief Deputy of Ramsey County Sheriff�s office explaiqed e plan where Village may contract for police service from Ramsey County. �Iatter to be given further study by Public Sa�ety Committee. Mr. Lloyd Kin� representing the 1�tinnesota Pool Company offered his service: on questions Council mag have re= ewimming pools. Mr. Kind to send Clerk copies of model ordinances as passed by other municipalities on pools. Minutes of Regular Council Meeting, D�tober 12, 1959 2 • FUB�IC VJORKS; Residents oi Mound Aveque complained on condition of street. Mr. Delange promised action on the request. ➢7r. DeTen�e reported tl�t the sqow plowing request of Village streets has been submitted to Ramsey Couqty. Mr. DeLange reported that Developer Kranak 3e to get started immediately � on road improvement in S.H. 6. PUBLIC SAFETY; Crepeau reported that �ttorney Courtney checked and approoed the contract for care of priismners with Ramsey County. Motion made by Crepeau, seconded by DeLapge that contract ba approved, signed by Clerk and returped to Ramsey.County attorpey. �otion passed. Upon motion by Crepeau, seconded bgr Strorequist, a contract with I�ke Johanna Volunteer Fire Department to flzrnish fire protaction to �rden Hills in 1960 for �3,200.00 was approved by Council. Motion passed. Clerk�s Report; Clerk reported that the Finance Comm3ttee has stixdied and recommend passage oi new propoaed electrical fee Sohedule, plumbing and well drilli�g fee increase and adoption of Section 3, Sub. 3 of Ordinance regtzlating individual sawage snd cesepool syatems. Upop motion by Stromquist, seconded bp Crepeau an amendment to building • code was introduced by title adopting a new achedule of elect�@cal in- speetion fees. Motion passed. Upon motion by Stromquist, secopded bp Kennedy, an amendment to the Building Code was introdueed by title adopting a new fee schedule for plumbing and well drilling fees. Motion passed. Upon motion by Stroma,uist, saconded by Crepeau, an amendn_ent to the Building Code adopting Sec. 3, Sub. 3 of Ordinance Regulating Ind, Sewage ac�d Disposal Systems was introduced by title; motion passed. The above amendments to be prepared in psoper form by Village Attorney before second reading. Council reouested �rs. Stromquiet to order 3 dozen chairs for Village Hall, chair pads, a coat rack, desk, secretary�s chsir and wa�e basket. Neating was adjoupned at 11:30 p.m. • .Jy / �/� � �/f l _l��-L�::,<-:-i-C, C(�. .�G`=� i' f��.�c_:�G�_-L' �/ �`Cy..-l.l.�_"�. . �L.��.'�i,[1,-C� �_ • TARR�INE E. STROM�UIST,�C erk RQEERT 0. ASH$ACH, Mayor � � RESOLUTION Resolved and approved that a 1959 tax levy of Thirty One Thousand Eight Hundred Twenty Seven Dollars and Eightg Cents ($31,827.80) collectible with geperal taxes in 1960 for the general tax fund for operation of the government of the Village of Arden Hills, Minnesota be certified to the County Auditor for tax levg for said Village. Passed by the Villaga Council at the regular meetin� held October 12, 1959. R H H, Mayor o t e Village of Arden Hills � � ;i,--. _�� . -� %�-= �.-�.:y' _ _ c.0 LORRAINE E. TROM4�UIST, G erk of the Village of Arden Hi�ls �-- - . � ootaber 12, 1969 Mr. Eugene A. I�oaick, Countq Auditor Ram�ey Countg Court Houee 3t. Paul, Idinnesota Dear �Ir. Monioks I enclose herewith a capy pf the Resolution gassed by the Arden H111a Counail at the Regular meeting held October 12, 1959. I enoloeed s]eo e aopy of the 196fl village budget. An amount of �,2,��.00 la to be ; `i, ��S'`". � r levied, in addition to encloaed budget for bot�dod 30- debtednssa of Arden H111s, aa previou�ly aertiPied to' your office. Youra trulq, Lorralde E, 3tromqnist caerx, arden xtlie I.E;s :ma Enc . CC: Robert 0. Aahbach, Mayor 1fl�0 BUDGET AN� TAX LGV'i YILYA(3E OF' ARnEN HSLL9 hmtimated Arsesaefl Yaluationt 1i93fl�468.00 �.atimated Recsiptat Sbate ApDort4onment Liquor tps Cig4r,tt• 4ax aaa tax credit Village lieenser Businsaa �lacea 3�ilding oodo Trailer Court (nat} Liquor Parm3ts (net) Total, eaa�pt tax revanue Proposed tnx levy Total 1,000.00 1,000.00 2�500.00 b00.00 1,200.00 300.00 3i800.00 l,t)00.00 11�000.00 31R827.80 42,627.80 � .� • . . E`'.TI�.ATED i'sXPENDITURES - (3�NTsItiAL PL'ND Adminiatrativ 4nd Genaral salaries !�Sat yoi' 187 . B 0 TreaaureP 1P0.00 Trusteee (3) 4SQ.�U Other 250.OQ Total Vil]a$s iiell Talephone 16.75 mo. UtilStiea and janiSor Equipment. AepRlr and upke�p Total 1i007.5� 225,00 850.00 500.00 �o.00 1,5Q5.00 I.mgsl Attorney fe�e ].,500.00 Ordlnance and legwl notisea gubllaYud 400.00 Annual statament 80.00 i�e�d law Notice 1�.00 Tota�l IIon3, Villaga ofSicia ls Ibeurance, wkman�e acuc� & pnblio liRUility Village Hall - liability snd fire Total YtsHA 6� 210.99 k:mergency chargs to mek• up deficit ip fund 2� 87.91 �rotpi Elections Yr inL ing clorka Judgee Total Ciark Clexk�e Salary Aes�t cl�rke aalariea Sup�liee amd Do�tago Tota 1 Misc. Villege aquip�ent, bull.etin boardu, ballot box�a, eto. ROi�SQA duea � � Lwrgue oY Ldiun. Munie. �ea Coneultanic Peem Subeiata�na• and traqeportation �cot8i Total adminieLratine and peneral 1�990.0� 30.00 480.00 100.Op 550.00 298.90 130.00 150.00 440.00 790.00 Sn0.430 750.00 30Q.00 1�9&Oa00 800.00 25 .00 72.40 300.00 soo.00 �.,o��r.00 : s,�.�a.ao . m " � �eti�,atsd Expenditur�a � (3err6ral F'und 2 Publie Safety Fire protection �Eolice aalarien Sc�uad osr ainkin� i"und County Radio S�rvice Telephone Anewaring Serviae Teleghona 3qued repaira L`nifarm account Dog Ordinanae enforeament Poliae Car instusnae Police cer operation Contingenciea Civil defense Total Piablia SaS'ety Pubiio Work Snow plowing and aanding Street aigna Clean culserts Yatoh etreeta and guttere Duat coating of etreeta Durap truck and equipment, ainking fund Tree xe,noval Lower the grade at Ed�arater snd Asbury Stabilizing all atreeta in Arden Hilla �3 after sewer ie installed Wesd oradiastSon Total Fublia tiork Publio 'V�elfare Planniqg Completion of mapa Completion and publishing of ordinance :app:oval oi propoted ohangea ordinanCe Approvsl oF new plats I:acreational planning pletting in zani.ng 'Potal P].aqground acquiaition, maidteasnce ar�d equipment Tota1 Total Yl.anning Total Dleburae�enta in all 3 �20Q.OQ 5jb00.00 1,137.50 300.00 lEsti. QO 121.80 280.00 28d.00 250.00 258.10 800.00 �ao.00 500.00 13�354.40 2�200.00 200,00 27b.00 5�000.00 8,900.W 300.00 150.00 6U0.00 3 � 500,00 500.Qq 16,325.00 880.OQ 300.00 100.00 E80.OQ 320.00 1,2b0.00 2,750.Q0 4,000.00 48'827.80 �/ ;' _ �, � Extract of Alinutts `of bkiiin9 of ttu� Vi11aq• eouncil o# Ths Villags of Ardan Hills Remsey Gounty, I�tnn�aota Held Octob�r 12. 1959` - Pursuant to due Call and notice th�rtaf, a raqulax • meeting'of th� Villaq� Counci2 of the Villags af Arden Hi11s. Minnesota was duly h41d at the V111age Hall in sal,d v1llags on the'12th day ai Gctob�r, i95�, at as�o o'clock P.M. The £ollowing aa+mbers,were presrnt: All' and the following arar• abaent: A(ont � M�mber Erapsau introduc�d and mmvtd tt�e adoption of the followfing reaolution: R&SlJLt11'ION FOR T'FiE ISSIIAl4CL OF SANITRRY $E1Y�R ZMPROVENfENT 9did17S 5ERIES A WHFR�P:S contraets have h*r�tofar• bsin ent�rQd into #or tha construction o£ sanitary aewer imprnveseentg at an aggr�gat� psic• o€ i6a�049,OD and f or additional work to be p�rforn�d uadtr a toopfrafiive agr�a�mtnt with the Villag• of Roseville at an •stin�tsd cast uf $35,000 to-tho Viliaqo of Rsden Hills, and other additianal �xpenssa nec�ssary to b• incurrerd in connfction with th�st lasprovements are astimated at Sr24,500.00�'�saking a total o# S123,349, of which �um it is �sti.aiated tfl b� nac�ssary for the Vill�qs to barrow $120�D00 at this tim�, pursuant to �(innsaota.-Statut�c 19�7, Chapter 429. � NOW THFR�FORE 8E �T RF.3t)LV�D by thf V�11aqe cf Ard�n tiills, � NLinr�esota: 1. Th� improvemtnt hexeinabov� describtd shall be financ�d by the 3s�uence of i�prav�nt bonda pUdging tho fu11 faith and credit'of the Viliaqe and shall hersaft�r be referred ta as Sanitary Sewer Improwm+��►t �Na, j,. A separatt impzovtm�qt #uncl is h�reby e�tabliahed !`oz such`iuip�ovNnint%which shall b� called Sartitaxy ` • Sew�r Improvea�nt No. 1�und. Ths proceads fros► tha sale • bf improvement bonds hsrefn provid�d for and f rom tha coll�cticns of spscial assessments for-the impsove�atnt and any other mcsneys I" appropriated th�rtato by the Vi11aQe ahall b� paid to auGA fund. 2. improvin+�nt bo��ds on t3�e account of sanitsxy sew�r improvf- m�nt No. 1 shall b� i�esuod'in tht tatal amount of 5120,000.00, said bonds to b� :20 in number and nu�nber�ci l to 120, boih • inclusiw. and be in tM d�n9m�.natior► of $1,000 �ach and sitall bear dat• of No��mb�r �. 1959 and sha11 b�ar;int�rest at th� r�t� or rat�s d�tarafnld at th�'sa1� tA�roof. payabU NovssNr 1, 196�1 and strolannua:ly thor�aftar an I�lay l and Noveab�r 1 of •aoh yaar; ` and shall ma;ure stri.ally on Nov��r 'I`in th� y�ars and amounts • as follewss t10,Q00 1960 5�Q00 1961 _ 1476 10,000 1977 - 1979 _ - TDe bond� maturing tn the years 1977 thrauqtt 1974 wf11 be oallabl� ; at th� option of the villagt on Nov��aber 1, 1964' and arry interest payAu�t dat�a� thenaftsr at par and actrusd ini�r�st plua a prl�esi.we of � if zedeem�d on or befcr� Ntay.l, 19b9i 1� if rad�e�+►d on or betwtn N w�b�r l, 19fi9 and Nay 1, 1474, and;without pr�miuer if Tqlse►xd on ar aftez Naveml»r 1, 1974. : ' 3. Th� ieprovemtnt bonds shali b� payabltr at e,ny suitabl•' sank or trutt`c4mpany dtsignstad by the purcAases snd the ' z�asonable chargMs of th� paylnq agent ahall M paid by tl�� Viliag�. • / Th� Cl�rk is h�r�by instruct�d to adv�rtisa fot bida for th� • , purchas� of said bonda. &atd adv�rtiaament she11 bR publish�d � oncp in ths Rose Tribuns and 3n Co�re.rciai west. Th� bids shail : bt r�ceived and op�nsd on Novemb�r 3� T959 at.7t00 o'clock P,M. The Coun�il r�serves the right fio r�j��t any or all bids,aznd to r�-advertiss if a b�tt�x pric• can'bs okitainad tMr�by, and to, waive any inforroality in any bid and to adjourn th* sal• if d��nad nectsaery. 5�id pubiished notice of th• sale shal3 M at lba�t � ten day pzior to th� det• of sal�. Said natico sl�a�l state that � I I" _ tho Villa9• will furnish the printed bonds and eppravinq itq�l'' opinion of Dorsey� Owvn, Scott, Barb�r and Marquart of Minn�apoi3s. • Minn�sota� and P�t�rion� Papovich and;Mazsd�n, af St. Payl, Minnaaota, without expenst to th! puxchas�r, snd dslivfry wi11 bt a�ade wiLAin 30 days aftsr the date of aa1�. Said notice shail : also r�eite a good faitA check of not 1Rss-than two qtretnt of th� principal amount ef said bonds. Said notie• o£ sal• i�ll liit fn substantielly th• following form:: • MDI'IC� OF SALE f+120�Q00 SANITAAY SENER INIPRaVEMENT BONDS SBRIfiS A VILLAGE Og AttDEN HILLS, RAl�l5fiY COtM7Y; MINI+t8S0?A A�TIC� IS HERHBY GIVEN that the Council,of the V111age of' Ard�n Hills, Minnasota, will e�s�t in tha Counafl Chsmbess o# ths Vi11ag� Hall in said Villa9s at 7sC0 o'clock P.M., on Tuteday, the 3rd day of Nowmber. 1999, to rec+�ive, opin and consid�r staltd bids for and award th� sals of its npotiable coupon gensral obligation Sanitsry Sewer I�provetAsnt,Bonds, Seri*s A. in tha pzincipal amount cf 5120�000 to be iasutd to finance a portion of the cost of Sanitary S�war Irmprovs��pt No. l pursuant te the prcvicions and undu tRe authority af Minn�a6ta Ste#ut�s 1957, �lsapter 429. a� �s�nd�d. 5aid bondg will be dat�d Novso�r 1,.1959� will b� in the denominatton of 51,000.0t7 •achf will b�ar initr�st at the xai♦ ox rat�s to W d�cignat�d by the suacassful bidder in integral multiplet of 1/4 or 2/la of 1% ptr annuai� payalol� t�ov�a►bsr 1, 19d0 and semiannually th�r�after'on �lay i and November l of each'year and wiil mature s�riaily on N venbe� 1 1n ths y�ars and amounta as follows: 510,000 1960 _ . 5,fl00 1461 - 1976 10,000 1977 - 1979 � The bonds aaatu;ing in,th� ysera 1972 through 2979 wi11 be cellabl• at th+ option of tha vfllag� on Novt�eber l, 1964 and eny interMst pay�pent d�tea th�r�after at per and accru�d`inter�at plus a pz�ieui of 2� if rade�med on or b�fore May 1, 19b9i 1� if red��aed on or b�twten Nowebtr 1. 1969 and Jday l. 1974,'6nd without pr�wium if redesn�d on or aftor Novtmb�r 1, 19�4, Prirtcipal snd int�rast wi11 be made payabl� at sucQ bankiny institution in th� U7it�d 5tatsa�na�d:by puschasez. The Villaqe will fuxnish, wfthout eost �to th� purchaaer,`and within 30 days aftrr date of sale. the print�d and •xecut�d b�nda and appraving ltgal' op;inion of 1�eesrs. Dossay, Owen. Sco�tt, Barber and Marquart � � _ � . � �� .. . .. Y. . 4 .. .. . . . � , * . . . .. . . . . . of l�nneupolia, piinresota, and' f�:srs. ` Pat�rson, Po�+ovich and Narsden of St. paui, Minnesota, togsihier vrith tht eustopoary non-litigation certificats. ` � S�aled bid� e�axk�d "Bid for � 120,000.00 Bonds" e►ay be mailed or deiiver�d ta thm unders gn* ag� Clexk and mu�t b� receivad at his office prfoz to time of �eti.ng. Gral auction bids will not be considersd. Esch bid �nua! be unconditl:onal excQpt cs to la$ality and a�ust re sccomp�raied by � certified chsck in the amount cf � 2�400.00 payable Lc the Village ?rQasuz�s t� b� retai.raed as cu ata smages in ¢seo th• bid be acs�pt�rd and the bidder shall fail to comply therewith. 9ids will b� cvspased aetardinq to the lowest dollas amcunt of net interast test coasputed to stated r�aturftiea of said bonds, deductinq thertfxom tht preesium if any. Nc bid of less than p�r and accrued fntea�st will bi considered and the Villag� res�rve� the riyht to reject tny az all • bids� and tc woive iny informality in any bici and to adjoush 'th� sale if d��eo�d necessary. Dat�d:_ Octob�s 13. 1959 BY OFtDFR UF IHE ViL1.NG8 CAIAVC] L Lorraine &tzoequist Yillag� Clerk Each and all of th� term6 �nd the provisiona of ths for*goinq form of nntica ase h�reby adopt�d as tha't�rms and conditions oif said bonds and the terms of a sala thtracf, The motion f or ih� adaption o£ the foregoirtg resolutfon ass dul� �aetonded by l�e�Aex p+�-ang� , end up4n vots btinq taken thsz�on the followint voted in £avor ther�ofs A11 and thi foliawing voted against th� aauw: Na�� •, wh�r�upoa said re`olution was d+�elarsd dulp pass#d �,nd adopt�d, � : � � : � � � � Td.inutes cf Meeting and Public Hearin9 �� , Villag� of F,rden HiZls, �Ainnesota C;ctaber 2�, 1959 Pursuant �o due cali and nctice thereof, a special moeting and public heaxing o€ the Villaqe Council �f the Vitlage cf Arden HiZls, P:innescta, was duly held at the Lake Johanna 5chool in �eid Village �n Tuesday, OctcbQr 2�. i959 nt S:G� c'clock P.N. The fallc�ing members were �resent: All and the fcllowing were absent: None The t�aycr announced t}�at the meeting was open fcr the ccnsider- - ation cf a proposed sanitary'sQwer improvement-ln the Viltage. The Clerk pxeduced an affidavit sho,ving publication af a notice appearing on the improvement two weeks 3n the cfficial newgpapQr of the Village, _� ,:hich affidavit was examined and ordered placed on file.` The Fdaycr then called upon ai1 prop�rty owners and interested'individvals present either f or cr against said pzoposed improvement. There fcllo:;s a verbatim transcript cf thQ mteting. Pl.F:YOR AOAERT ASHBACHs Gaod evening, ladies and gentlemen. It's five minutes p�st eight so I think we will start. As you know, this, is a public hQaring in which-we, as your Vill�qe cfficials,`will try I tc present te ycu the figures and data as wa know them and as cua I engineering consultants and fisc�l ccnsultant have advised us, as tc hcu they affect us. of course, that is the important thing - ho�v they're geing tc affect us. Ycu k.nr..,v a commutor is'cne whc goes tc the city every day so he can afford to sleep in the suburbs so ,��e're gcing tc see hovv expensive it will be to sleep in the subuxbs � but before we go on with the meeting, Dick Jones has a very significant � � anncuncement to make. � F• ..... ?here follewed an announcement by Mr. Jones not pertaining to the public hearing..... 2 N�P.YOR r�SEiBACH: t1w� this being a special council maoting, I � �rill ask the Clerk to nota a11 the Council members present and also reyuest 9�at �ve dispense with the reading of the minutes . tcnight. Before we g,p on i vrould like tc introduce the Council members to you. I did this last time too. I fcrgot to introduce cur Glerk first. Lorraine, tvculd ycu stand up. 1.'ss. �':rortyuisf is our Clerk, and we alsc havo N.r. Crepeau, Villaga Trustee in charge of the ?olice Department; N:r. Kennedy in charge of the zcning and building cedes and platting; and Mr. DeLange - I shouldn't say it - in chaige cf roads. �;'e have also with us tcnight Mr. Vincent Courtney who is our Vill�ge attcrney. Is Mayor Cedarholm here? He was going to come tonight but this is primary elaction night in Rcseville so he's probably watching the voting machine. I know those ef us on the Council and many of us in krden Hills do appreciate the cceperaticn that Roseville has extended to us by allowing us to connect to their sewer system and it's enly through that cooperation between the Villages that we have already been able t� give one area sewer service, namely the scuth side of Lake Johanna. They started putting sewer in the grcund today. Now. Cr. Sekhon� our village He�lth Officer, is very aware cf I� our prcblems. Dcc� would ycu stand up cr if you have � word er twc you're�welcome to say it. DR. MDiiA;V S. SEKH[?N: Se�ver has been close tc my heart. The first meeting held in Roseville in December of 1955 was a rcugh meeting. The people didn't want it and th�y wanted it put to a � � � � � �� vote and we knew we would lose it because things like that are never decided by vc•ting. The very people aqainst it, after the sewer came in, were the cnes very plaased with it. One man invited me at NcCarrcns Lake to see the sewer connection and I had known him for many years. I went inside thQ house and he said Lcok at the toilet how it flushes and he said before this I cut down the vclume cf the water in the bowl from eight gallcns to five and from five to three and then it wouldn't•flush . I said, would ycu have voted fer it and he said no, I would have vcted against it. Roseville weuld havt voted three tc anQ against sewar at that time. The Council :�ent against it. The subsaquent administration supported it and right now they are finishing Improves�nt No. 2 and they're gc3ng to start No. 3 and by next year I undQrstand 95� of Roseville Nill have sew�r. I attended a meeting cf the Governor's last mcnth. Only the Naycrs ware invited and I happened te gc beeause I thought I'll see what went on. I was about to see the names of some of the villages close to us that are or have contamination from 37� to 83;�. N,cunds View where we have the Edgewood Junior High 5chool and the wells are cnly 35 feot deep and cesspools 25 feet and it's all sand and we have a heavy ecntaminatien of that area. d�lso there were places like Coon Ropids and Spring Lake Park. Blaine in Anoka County. 7hose are the villages the State Board of Health had gone over and inspected . Our area just got sewer started today. ThQy started digging � today. I live in Arden Hills 3 next to Nazareth Hall and I think .ve should just gc right ahead and sup;�ert and Council and this is one cf the items ycu have to have. You can't life here the same kind of a life that the city pecpla do. Ycur houses are c1osQ to � � � � � each cther and ccntamination of soil so bad that it's a real hazard tc the health ef the people. The Stato Board of Health is going to try to get something passed fhrcugh the legislature next year because of this ccntamination in these villagQs and thay +an� the wells deeper and made safe by closing the arQa where the �ipQ hos gone through the cement like they dc in the echcols and alsc: they want these areas sewered as soon as they can and I was present at that meeting and heard of these cfficials of the villages next to us which I mentianed and I noticed how pathetic the pecple is. Their assessed aaluation is low and they said they can have water or sewer� not both. Ne asktd if there was not some money floating arouna for sewers and the Governar said they are short of money already and you'll have to do it by yourselves and so all I can tell you is ttie fact that we axe at this time just safe. �'we don't have contamination of our wells yet. I have an inspector in Rcseville and a few in Arden Hi11s. The wells are deeper. '.�e are safer. But ycu never kno�.,�. Deeper .rells can get ccntaminated too. (P,pplause) t�RhYCR ASHBACH: Thank you. Dceetr. I think I shouYi set one � thing straight. The Council dces net want tc push this sewer prcgram. It's up to ycu. Yr'e have a nice cross secticn ef pQople here tonight and if it appear� that the majority and a large percent wan� the sewer, I'm sure the Council will dc all in their power tc hasten the action to get sewer but I want to pofnt out that I have never heard anyone on the Council say this area has qot to have sewer and we're going to give it tc them wh�ther they want ft cr not. If you decide you want sewer know3ng all tha problems and implications, that's your problem and we're willing to act as you would like us to act. I wanted to puint that our first. � • 5 • tdc�H� �,ve will go on with the meeting and have a report from the fianister Engineering Company who will present to us some of the facts and figures and outTines that are necessary for you to get scme scrt of a cicse up of the situation cont�mplated at this time. Then� fcllcwing tiwm, ;you will hear frcm l+Sr. Popovich ti+�ho is well aware of the fiscal problems of this area and he witl present tc you that sido. After these gentlQmen have given their short remarks, the meeting will then be thrown open to questicns and answers or any other additional informaticn that is possiblt fcr us to give to you so that it �.vlll be used by you to make up � your minds or help you evaluate ycur o•rm situation. 11ow t°r. shcrt cf the Banister Engineering Company �vi11 preser.t to us th�ir cutline cf the project invoived and this gQneraliy conststs of the • area from County Road D to County Road E from Clevela�nd to abcut including this edge cf Lake Johanna and other than that I think I'll leave it up tc tt,r. Short. HR. R�GFR SHC�RT, Sanister Engineering Company: V.'e have some slides which we will use tc illustrate tha areas and some ef the detail in respect tc.� this proposed sanitary sewer imprcvement No. 2. �. preliminary study and rQpert was completed on this portion of the Village � Arden Hills a little over a year ago and, as you know, a hearing w�s held here last N,ay cn Sanitary c;ewer Improvement iJc. 1. �� portion of Arden Hi21s which lays aleng ths east side cf Lake Johanna and cver as far as t.exingtcn Avenue - ycur east limits v.as adjacent to the part of Roseville �vhfch was gcing ahead with an improvem�nt at that time dnd a decieion had tc bo made as to • whether any pcstion cf the Viliaga of Ardan Hills was going to ccnnect into it. � • 6 • Now, Sanitary 5ewa� Improvement Nc. 2, as tha Mayor has explained� is on the westerly side cf the lake and extends westerly to the west limits cf the Village from your south limits cn D north to somewhat north cf Ccunty Road E. ihe area in the �+estern porticn considered tcnight comprises approximately 25C acres. A good deal of Lake Johanna is in the limits but I think when we show you the map you can understand the reasons fcr it. Perhaps :��e can havQ the first slid9. Mr. 9dnister. .....Slide i..... This proposed Zmprovement t�c. 2 is the shaded area here and� as explained before, runs along the limits - Cleveland.along Stcwe and then north aicqg New Brighten Road tc the Seo Line tracks and east alcng the Sco Line tracks to a peint abouf half �vay acscss the l�ke, v�hich isn't the proper • legal descriprion, but then dro�s stxaight south to alonq the west line rf Plazareth Hall propeaty and then west tc the intersection of Cleveland and County Road D. That is the area �rrhich is under consideraticn this evening and which contains a little over 25G acres of land area not including the pertion of the lake lying inside the improvement nor including scme ef the swampy area up to the north side of the lake which would not be used fcr building purposes prcbably f�r many years� if ever. 8lJcw� the map also illustrates here a portion of the Village of Reseville lying along our south limits and the Village cf Rcseville is ncw in process cf constructing their Improvment No. 3 and their limits a p�rt of their Improveme:t No. 3 may be seen here. In this Icr��rcvement i1o. 3 there is a large trunk sewer L+hich connects � to an existing sewer in RcsevillQ which. if aewage is to be received frcm t•xden Hi11s, will require enlargement. This sewer is approximatal � � � • six thcusand feet in length a11 together. extending frcm just north of Ccunty Rcad C up tc County Road D approximately at the inter- secticn of '�ricr Avenue. It is proposed if Arden Hills joins the Roseville sewer that it shall start out 21 inchss in siza continuing northerly about a block west of Fairviaw �F to Lydia and crossing the pehd thsre 18 inches in size thore anii continuing on up 15 inches in size into the Villaqe of Arden Hills. ?here's a meter station shotivn at this point whore sewage would be measured vahich wculd enfer the Village of Rosevilie sc the volume cculd be determinQd pericdically by recording instruments. There is also another sewer for tcnnection for.the eastorn portion of this Imprvvement 2 area which is proposed to be 1Q inches in tize extending east on Lydia, north of Fairvie� and east on County Road D. In • studying the matter of sanitary sewers in this area, the area was divided into � separate districts principally in respect tc thQ type of service received by the arQas ccncerned. Mstrict P�o, 1�..as the large central p�rticn v�hich rec�ived cr �.hich discharges the se�vage by gravfty down a line startin9 at the intersecticn of Stcwe and l3e.�. Brighton Road. running suuth along New Brighton Road, then westQrly across some cFen ground and south on Pricr Avenue and again joining up at thQ a+�ter station at Ccunty Road D. The cthez areas drain northerly alcng Jehanna Bculevard fro� just north of County Road D all the way up to a Lift station at the intersection of Cc�un€y Aoad E and Johanna Houlevard. P.11 the sewers adjacent to this street discharge into into the sewer which drafns to the north where the sewage is lifted by a lift � station and pumped back and eventually reaches this same point where the trunk sewer started out at Stowe and New Brighton Road. A lift staticn for that area would be locatod at this point. Then � � 8 • another small separate area which is located cn the southwest corner of Laka J:�hanna reyuires a lift station located just sc,uth and east of the Presbyterian Home, taking care of that area adjacent tc Lake Johanna viith discharqe up the hill and into the 10 inch sewer draining into the Village of Rosevilif. F;t the present time� dap�nding on what happens in this undeveloped area, a mcvable lift station is recommended on Cleveland just north of County,Road D. There hasn't been any developmant in this orea, platting or any other use of tho land cther than farming and it tivould appear tc us that there is a fairly good chance that this area may change at which time the lift staticn might be recomrtwnded to be moved so we have recoRmwnded a prefabricat�d metal typa cf lift station su this can be movod. . The sewars from Prior P.venue and County Road D will drain te th� west and the sewers on Glen Paul from just west of Prior drain to Cleveland and this lift station for pumping back to prior and discharge intc Rosevil U again. In the whole undertakinq, within the Village of Arden n Hills, the studies ccvered the construction of about 3500 fe�t cf trunk sewer and a mator station and also covered the construction of about 24�C00 feet of lateral sewers of 8 and 10 inches in in size and including the threelift stations wfth the connecting force mains as shown. Now, I think you probabiy know what all cf this portion cver here c overs. That is the area upon which a hearinq was hald last t.'.ay and thia information is only tc illuctrats the resuits of • that hearing and tha area where latosal sew�rs and a lift �tation are now under construction. A similar s�wer was increased in . • 9 Roseville fcr this eastern area and increased in size by joint • village actian so that the sewer would serve both cocx�unities. ..... Slide iJo. 2..... This illustration ehows the small portion of the entire Village of Arden Hills v+hich is being considered under this undertaking - this proposed Imprcvement No. 2 being a small area here. You can see #he considerabl• size of Arden Hills and hcw Arden Hilis lies in respect to Rcseville. Impsovament Nc. 1 in Roseville is ccmplete, Nc. 2 is almost complete and wcrk is just co�sr,encing on Nc. 3.. Ladies and 9entlemen, we believe that this imprcvement is practical. feasible and if sew�r service is to be provided to this area of the Village af Arden Hills, that the improvement . shculd be made in the tnanner ccvered in your hearing this evening and as shc��.n in the brochure which you have received. Thank you. (applause) 1::AY�t ASHBACH: Thank you, Roger. Talking about brcthures, I=vculd like ta thank Mrs. .Ufosez and the League of �.`omen Voters for the distribution of the brochuree and all thcse who helped her in the delivering of the brcchures. Ak35. NASER: You can thank my children. NAYOR ASHBACH: Next r�e will hear from Mr. Papovich on tha fiscal side cf this problem which we are all vitally interested in and� Pete. would you tell us what you have. NE2. PEiER S. POPOVICH: t�'hy don't we go right into it and put that slide up that you have. Bill. This is the portion of the • brochure that has tc do with projected costs and it has bsen reprcduced on this slide and is on page 3 of your brochure. Sear. in mind these figures ar� estimates but they arQ estimate6 � � � � lo that we feel are conservative in the sense that we shot�ti not exceed them. For example. on Improvement No. 1 the total cost estimated was �13G,OGC. The ffnal bonds tc be issued whel all contracts havQ been let - and the Council has already done that - tctaled g1�0,U00. So the improvemont is $L0,000 less than wt thought. l�:hether cr not the same thing can be accomplishQd h�re is another factcr . In Im,provement tdc. 2 under Projected Costs No. 1 shcxs tha estimoted imprcvement costs which are the actual constructicn costs as estimoted by the engineer. "This fncludes the acquisition of easements and things o£ that nature� which has been rounded off as shown in ;Jo. 2 to $35C�GCO.CO, tho difference being mad• up by what wQ call capitalizad interest which we must pay during the time that the construction is going on befcre w� are able to receive aur assessments back frcm the people. In other words, the tetal eest would be �350,OG0 for the whole improvement and bcnds would be issued in this amount. Yeu will notice in Ne. 3 that it is anticipated that none of � that bcnd issua will be sprQad on general taxes. In other Nords. there would be no mill rate increase fcr purposes of this sewer and it follcws the same pattern as has been indicated tc thQ people in connecticn with ImPrcvement t3o. 1, tha eact portion of Lake Johanna. In oth�r words� those aroas that �Nill be getting sewer, assuming the Council goes ahead, will be paying for this by full assessmants :Jithout any portion of it spread on a mill rate increase which means that anybody living north of the railrcad tracks will not contsibute in any way and this is a policy question dnd a policy determination that this Council pwde in ccnnection � • 11 • with Improvement Pto. 1 and is }�eing carried forward in Inprcvement ido. 2. Thus, in Nc. 3, the entire amount of the bonds, essuming $35C,�00 wculd be sold and� of course� if it's not necessary to have $35C,0�0 only that portion that we need, that would all be paid by apecial assQssments. Now, in order to break that down� you will find it in No. 5. a. ts abutting sewer per foct. That is, if you h�ve a lot� for example, it would ba $10.50 per front foct for ittnnediate complete service. Those in 5 b. will be assessed who den't get immediate serviee but bansfit from what is called an area benefit where their laterals ars not there but there is trunk benefit which is called non-abutting platted pronerty per front fcct cf �2.5C. ;Jon abutting unplatted property is $4CC.00 an aere which is � an acreage charqe which is a factor on larga piac�s of property that dcn't get all the latQrals. The service connectio?n stub is the service connection frcm the middle of the street to the property lina at a cost of 550.00. Ne�r:, translating this in another way� the mill rate increase would be "none" and the annual service charqe in Pdo. 7- that is ihe estimated cost that will have tc b� charged by the villagQ cfficials after they adopt a rates and charges ordinance for the o�eraticn of the sewer department. 7his $36.00 takes into consideratian all cf the costs that Roseville will charge which also reflects the charges that St. Paul charges plus the normal depreciation, maintenance of your system. This $36.UG was the � same figure we used in ccnnection with Imgrovement No. l. There aren�t tcc many cannections in Imprcvement Na. 1 and whila there ar� somewhat mcre in idc. 2 it isn't what we call a full fledged system. � • 12 � In Roseville thai p4r year cost is $30.OG. It's an ennual servica charga. As more people would hook up this charge could be reduced but we wanted to shcw the high�st that we thcugh! it avould be. In arder to determine your individual eoat,'you weuld than multiply thQ front footagt cf your prop�rty by $10.50. Zn othez wobds, if you have an 8G foot lot, it's $1G.5G tim�s 8U. Then add �50.t;0 to that for the stryice st�b. Once you get that lump sum figur�d, divide it by 20 years to determin� what the y�arly assessment Ndll be and add 5% so you know what would b� paid each year. Cornor lots and odd shaped lots will be qiven sp�cial consideratian at th� time of the assessment hearing and if you should have a pi• shaped lct, don't get too worried about it • because in raality the same consideration ie givtn thera as are other lcts dapendent on the service receiv�d and tha area involved and the bQnefits received. Then to that whol� cest you add a$200.00 est3ma{ad hook up charge which is nct part of the assassment but is what you pay tc your plumbQr cr ccntractor once thQ sewer is in frcnt of your house and you ecnr,ect from your house to the sewor. Nc�v, translating this sti11 anothex way� let'a look at thf example on th� upp�r right hand corner. Supposing you had a ho�w that sells on the market for $20,OOC and it was on a typicaY lot of 80 faet. ?he special assessment would b� 80 feet ti�es $10.50 or $SaG.OG which you could pay for in eash if you wantad to once the sewer was there or allow it to be spread over a 20 y�ar • period. The connection afiarge would be mor� or leas dep�nding on where your house is located to the streat and whatavez peculiarities might be involved. 'Ihe service ccnnection stub would be the $50.Q0 � � 1� • added tc the $840 which would be spread cver th� 20 year period. The prQaent taxes� theCounty kuditcr tells me, would be approximately �'+9G.C;0. To see what effect a sewer systQm would have in this porticn of the villaqQ we wantQd to see what this do�e to th• $a9G.00 because the assessment is collected.along nd th your yearly taxes as ycu pay youn c�awstead taxes on May 31 and Octob�r 31 of each year. First of all. as sho»n in tdc. 5 there ig no millage increase. The service charge would b4 $36.OQ a year. Ycu would have to pay that. Ihat isn't collected� however� with ymir asessuwnt. That's billed separately to you by the Council. Then No. 7 would be i/20 of the total assessment. That's th� S50.G0 and the $840.00 or $89C.00 which would b� �,89.OG tha first year with th� avarage annual assessment at $66.75. ThQ f irst yeaz tht assessawnt cost � is greater because you're paying intarast on a greater portion and the last year it's only 1/20 - your interest would be on a smaller portion and thus. the avarage annual asaessment is estimated at this $66.75. Breaking it down anoth�r way. it's �10.42 a month the first year and $8.56 over th• whol� portion of the sewer assassment. Those of you whc didn't attend th� Improvement Nc. 1 h�aring should be told that thiz ia a feasibility h�aring on whather thQ Council should proceed cr not. '��Q have a ccurt reportsr iure taking down evveything that is safd. t�7h�n Z 9at th�wgh ta Mng the h'ayor will ask foz anyone who objocts or wants tc ask a quasticn or ar�ything of that natur• so vrhen tha meeting is thrcwn op�n to tha public, be sur� when you get up that you atate your nam� and � address so that it's in the record, and indicate wheth�r you're mtrely asking a yuestion or opposed to the improvement or in favor , • 14 • of it sc ths record will be clear on that. I shculd also point out that these project�d costs which wo have sk�tchily given you tonight and which are explainad in the brochure, are merely estimates at this time. Under the lccal improvement coda, as we ars prccetdin9, the costs once the full amo�nt of ths project is known. the special assessment costs are determined by the engineer and Village Clerk, approved by the Council tentatively and an assessment hsaring is hald. at which time ycu will have a chance to ccme in. You wili then know what your individual piece of property will be chargQd and you will have a right tc oppose it or objeet te it at that time, the thecry being that the assessm@nt against any piecs of property cannot ba mad� unless there is an eqtiivalant or greater benefit to the prop�rty r�caived. . t,nce that assessment hearing is held and any obj@ctionc have been analyzed and handled by the Countil� that is then adopted finally and that asseasment roll as adopted stays hasein the Village Hall for 3C days at which tim� anybody has the right to come in and pay ynir assessment during that 30 day period without any interest charge. Ir. other wcrds� the $&90.00 that we mentioned here - you couid come in and pay the whol• thfng during that 3G day period. Subseyuent thereto. the Clerk will certify that assessment roil to the County Auditcr cf F.amsey County who would spread the assassment cver the 2G y4ar period and ccllect it with your yearly taz�s. If then you decide nct to pay the full amaunt the first yQar. for example, say this whole thing pracQeds and sc�metiaw next fall an assessment hearing i6 held and approved on October 1, you have the � whole month of �ctobos to determin� whethor you'ro going to pay it cr not and you decide not tc, so the Councit :hen on November 1 ! � �� tertifies to the County Auditcr and in January you wili get your � preperty tax statement and will pay it along with the regular taxes. �uppcse later cn during 1461 you decida that'you're gcing tc pay the balance up in full. Then at that time you can go to the County Treasurer's office and pay the remaining balante� cnly �aying interest to December 31 cf the year in whith you pay. Sc after that first 3G� days when you can pay without interQst� thereafter you pay at the County Treasurer's office and you oniy have tc pay interest to D.cember 31 cf the year in which you pay. The same is true of the interast during the balance �f the 20 ytar period of time. Now, the brochure shews some other information - the numb�r of building permits issued here. fvr example, showing what has b�en happending in the valuations here and we find out. for axample. • in Arden Nills� while it is not shown in this particular information, that Arden Hills has cne cf the highest valuations per buildinq permit of any municipality in rural Ramaey County. averaging this last year nearly $16�OOC pQr permit which is very good. Roseville last year, for exaarple� only averaged $LO,DDO per permit so you're a third higher if ycu want to compare just thQ two suburbs. `fou t�,ill notice tCC WQ alsc showed the assessQd valuations here so you get an idea ef what's happending to your village. because it always goes to the ability to pay. You will notice tha growth in assessed valuaticn sc the last figure fcr 1958 ia �,1,b69,641. You miqht be interested in knowing that preliminary figures are coming out of the County Assesscr's office which will • be the 1959 valuations cn which taxes will be colltcted in 1960 and the real estate alone in Azden Hills wiil tctal your full assessed valuation of last year, In other words, there has beon a � • 16 � aizeable increase of real estate valuaticn hese within the village so that were you to fcrget about perscnal prcperty you ��-ould have the same assessed valuation as you had last year and censeyuently are going to have a sizeabie increase. N� �stimate that it +.�ill exceed �2 million dollars and perhaps hit �2.100,000.00. These are preliminary figures �hich we got from the Assassor's of£ice and wa can see a healthy increase there. Gne last piece c:f informaticn about procedure. h Council, as you kno��, is proceedinq undez their own initi.ative. Ir� other words. they have had so many requests from pec�le orally and £ormally th�t they passed a resoluticn askinq the engineers to make a study and setting this hearing. Supposing any other portion of the village tivant3 to mcve ahead - it can be dcne by th• method • assuming the Ccuncil dcesn't proceed under its awn initiative, :hen enly 35d cf tha affected people need siqn the petition. The Ccnncil is mcving only in thcse areas where they think therQ is a great need and demand and then only after a public hearing of this kind indicates that the pecp�e cf the area are in favor of the propcsed improvement. Mr. Short and I�Nill be happy to answer any yuestions you may have but followk the procedure as I earlier cutlined. (Applause). d�,AYOR ASHBACH: Thank you, Mr. Popovich. No•�v, any of you WY16 have any questions cr 3�ust want tc find out mcre infcrmaticn, don't hesitate tc rise and give your na� and address and state whether it's for information or �,vhether yeu're for cr against the imorovement. These are nct our rules. Vte're operating undor a � state law which says we must conduct meetings in this fashion so if there's anyone whc has a questien - NR. RICFiARD .70IdES, 1663 Glen Paul Road. Thi� question should � � � 17 probably be directed tc Roger. Running alcng New Brighton Rosd as you go ncrth, it appears frcm the diagram. that the main +wld go cn the right hand side cf the road. NR. SHORT: Running north on N�w Brighton Rcad. b'R. JCNES: From the peint do�.+n near Fairview where it cuts ufi there. h�. SHORT: .7ust north of County Road D. N&l, JGNL-S. On the right hand side of the rcad and that would service the homes cn the right side. NF�. SHORT: Homes on the east side. yes. hit. 30t�ES: Going back tc this corner lot business and mayba `J this will scive scme yuestfcns some others have. It 6ays thty will be given special consideraticn. Unfortunately I have both corner and cdd shaped. Could you give me any idea of what assessment •+vill be made. My lot is about 19G feet in the front and goes back to abcut 80 fQat in the back. NoW wouid that assessment be fcr the 80 feat or the t�tal front fcotage or just exactly what �::ould it be. It's on the coxner ef New Brighton Road and Gl�n Paul Rodd cn the north side of Glen Paul Rcad. t.�. SHORT: And on the west side cf New Brighton Road? hR. JGNES: Yes. MAYOR ASHB�H: Gn that, Dick� the Council has to decide � usually each individual case separately, they tell me, when they prepare the assessment roll. !t'e asked if it wasn't possible when a question comes like that to give you a formula and were tcld we would get in trouble and were advised not to do it. I know at the last public hearing we had the same questions asked. NR. POPGVICH: tvithout committing ourselves. looking at this particular portion, it's hard to see it on the map as to ho.v big ;� � � � [I3 your lot is� but assuming a sewer in front of your hortw on Glen Paul and assuming one on New Brightcn Road on the east sidQ cf the road� we would come to the assumptien that you would receive no benefit frcm that portion on th� east eide of the road because you'd have to tunnel all the way acress - therefere, you would connect up to Glan Paul and would be charged cn the same basis as thcse pQcple who are noxt to you on the west. Ycu would be getting no greater or lesser service but you wouldn't have the additional corner lot charqe which wouid ncrmally ba charged where ycu have s�wer avoilability on each sida of the house +��here you could shoose which way you �vanted tc hook up into it. It's going to be an average cf ycur lot and that's whet v+e'll assess it. NR. JONE5: Tha average? b�'s. P:;POVICH: The average frcnt and back ef ycur lct without taking into consideration any extra assesso�nt for the sewer on New Brighton. Bear in mind, if that sewer on New Brighton would be such that you might be able tc hook there. there is an additional charge made of - Qven cn regular ccrner lcts - a 25 foct cest w�hich we have put in the past, particulariy in Rosevilla where you cculd hook up at the front or along the side. M�. JGNES: You take th� frcnt feotage and baek and divide by two or something likQ that7 P+R. P�:PGVICH: That's right. � b�. JOt�fE�: Is there any imprcvemant made as far as �utting the road back in shape. Is that included in my so much per front foot vr would that be a spetial assessa�n� to the abutting ptoparty after they are improved. tJ'R. POPciVICH: Nc eest for imprcving th� strQet is in this bond � � � � 19 issue. In order to get away frcm a continual breaking up. however. the stub has been added so that once you go thrcugh a street and it's been zough graded cver again that .vill be the ead cf it. Hr�: the villaqe intends to finanCe any permanent improvem�nts to the streat thereafter is not yet known b�cause the Council has not come tc that point but they have been setting aside enough in thtir Read and Bridge Fund fcr certain mainttnanca of raguldr streets. Gna reason you probably don't want to go into full paved streets cr things cf that nature is that you den't know a�hat other imprcvements might eventually come in. But it's my understandin9 from sitting in with the Council befoxe that what they will do and what will be done here when the contractor gets done the earth is compaCted. the street will not be continually dug up and certain treatment will be given tc it out of the r�gular maintenance operation of the Council. If the people want anything more than that. you can alwsys petltion far a paved street by coming to your Council �nd agreainq ta pay for it. h'R. JGNES: I have had sevezal people call my home as to the high cost of the assessments and I think as compared to.Reseville I think it would be well for you tc compare Rcseville where part cf it went ea general taxes. hR. POPOJICH: This is difficult to dc. Pec�le say here it's :61G.5G and we heard that somebody else gct it for $6.50 and somebody else for ib.25. You must always be careful when you ccmpare between suburban villages. For exampla, is the terrain and topography • of the land the same, because this enters into the tosts tco. For example, dcwn in Newport wheze we were working on some material abcut a year ago, it's solid rock. There the costs ran over �1�.00 a foot. Over in Rosevillo it's dcwn at 56.05�and �6.25 but � � 20 • there, r.ct all cf it is put �n speciat assessments. Part are special and part ars general taxes. Nc.;� in Rcseville ImPrcvement Nc. 2 we're assessing some 53.2'_"',OOO against the peeple cf v:hich ?1,1C�,000 is �enerai taxes •.�hich is a 6 mi11 increase in taxes and the balance cf �2,2C'O,DOQ is by speciai assessmenta. ':�ell. if you added the same thing toqether you would get a much different picture so you can't say the assessment in Roseville iB �•6.05 and here its a10.50 because yours is all special assesement and thefrs is part2y general taxes and the terrain and topography are somewhat different. hP.. J05EPH CROrdTHER, 1£i50 Beckman Avenue: �"mere did you arrive at this cr.nnecticn charge of 52GC.t;..? How many feet back is that? The reason 2 ask that is for this reascn - is that the maximum � or ��hat7 P:'R. POFG`✓ICii: That f igure i.s a pure f igment of our imagination. '�.e just tock it out cf the air. Bu} you must remember this - it depends on vvhat kind of a hovse you have and ho:v far back frcm the street ycu are. '.�hether you can make a deal with your plumbar sc you dig the trench or what. .`�e have seen situatinns where peopie c;n a�ahole block will gc together and hire the same contractor. He comes in and digs the trenches and cut he goos. They get a better deal than if cne uses cne and the next guy another and ycu have six different centracters digging in the same street. This $20U.G0 is r.�hat we thin!: is an average, It's a cost that is customarily used. Some peoale can get by with :r150.00 and some it udll cost • $350. C�0 . '+4t. CRO�VTHER: That's misleading Ndt. POPOVZCH: It's impossible fcr us io tell exactly what it will be. � �. • h�. CRO'�TH�: Where did you get this figure? x,'gt. npo�iVICH: It's an average cost. !?P.. GRG�FTHER: For ho-: mar.y feet in7r 21 1.�:. SH^RT: Depending on the yart and :��hether ycu have it resodded er :�hatever happens. I�n�uld say that �200.D0 will adeyuately cover 6G feet ef connection, �erhaos up to 80. I just paid 53.00 a lineal fcot. For that �hey removed the sod, excavated, put in the pipe, back filled and leveled it off and compacted it vYlth the tractor. I replaced the sod. That cost Q3.00 a fcot. Under different types of agreement you can pay from appreximately ¢?.50 to �2.60 up to $5.00 and $6.00 a foot if ycu have them hand dig and tunnel.. }1�?. CORGI'.''I1?ER: Is there gaing to be come kind of a rate � set sc these plumbers don't stick these peo�le? t�A. F�OPC7�CH: The reason the Council is not concerned with � the �2CO.Q0 is because v.�e don't go en youz pro�±erty and put this in. The only thing the Council can do is put in a sewer in the s:ree, tc your property 2ine. From there on you put it in and you bring it in. This is a priva+e ccntractual busin�ss that you do �+ith yeur plumber. 7Jhere `he Council can handle it scmewhat is in the licensing ef the plumbers. N'hatevar ordinance they have in which plumbexs come in to do business in the village. I don't i:netv if this village has such an�rdinance but in other villages where the ccntractors want to rook the peo�le, the Council can control it by putting up e bond, etc. Ycu are cn your own and working with your ovm contractor just,as you are when you hire a builder to buiid your house or .vhen y�u buy a care from someone. Ycu might get rooked. r.�?. CROYJTHER: tvill there be something in that a person �on't get stuck fcr a big plumbing bill? � � � � NJ+YOP, F.�HF>F,CH: The Council has to take some steps to 22 prctect the property cwners. Idcv+, I'm not so sure in my own c:ind Rvhen you ta1S: about Flumt�ers, I'lm n�t so sure that the ��illageCcu:�ci1 vf Aaden Hi11s will adopt an �rdinance. I don't k.nov. v+hat the rest of the members' thinking is to have cnly ;,lumbers install it. I dcn't see why you should limit it to a certair. grcu�. TherQ are other types as qcod as,cast ircn, much cheaper, and you can hi.re any ccntractor to put in the pipQ. I feel if ��e have goc•d inspection from nur �lumbing inspector we're doing our peoplo a favor. They r�un't have to pay thrcugh the nosQ to hire a speciallzed plumbing ccntractor to put it in but I don't think we should limit the field. Roseville hss adoptod an ordinance reyuiring only licensed plumbers to put in connections. I don't see any nsed to go that far because all it does is really increose your Costs uf connection. (F�pplausej. Paul Casey: They say they bring the sewer up tc your proparty line. Just what do they consider yair picperty line7 A lot ef �ecple say 15 feet in from the center cf the road. Do they ccnsider it from the center cf the road cr from your �roperty line? Just how fax in dols ycux prop�rty line go? A+ft. SHORT: That dapends en the streat where you live. The � streets which are in this area under consideration - in a couple of cases they're quite narrcw - Z think about 35 or 4G feft from property line to property line. Other places such as County Rc:ad D are 66 feet wide. Fcr instance, cn Piew 3righton P.oad, there are places which I believe are abcut 76 feet wide. - from property line tc prcoerty line. Extremely wide. Normal street, and I believe it's reyuired in Arden Hills, is that new platting has tc be done ona • � 23 � basis of 60 feet cf �vidth. A normal street is 6G feet cr 3C feQt from center. The ccst �stimated for these pr�perty:sewers or sewer stubs is to censtruct them cut from the center of the street where the sewer is proposed to bQ located cut to the outside ef blacktcp �r curb line if a curb line wexe constructed. Thtlt takes betw�en 16 and 2G feet to get out that far and the purpose is that after your street is resurfaced that every time somecne connects or there is a vacant let it won`t be necessary tc tear up the street �d dig a big hole and back fill and have it settling and be soft f or the next year. The setivers are nct preposad on the normal 60 foot wida street te ccme clear into the prcperty lina. They're propcsed to come cutside cf surfacing sc you can construct £rcm that pcint • into youn c�use. 0 bRS. SAh1 JOHNSOtd, 188� Grant Road: The way I undesstand it, the sewer will go right dewn the center cf thQ street. Those streets will not be replaced. !'�AYC� ASHBACH: In your particular casa I kncw the Councit - I feel that we will make some sp eci�l assessment becauss ycu have �ust been assessed for paving the street and putt�ng in e stcrm drain so it certainly wouid not be fair for yeu to be assessed tc replace thcse streets fcr the seco�d time. A�S. JOHNSOtJ: There'll be no instance wh�re the sewer goes in the back cf the lot. It will always be in the street. is that rightl h'R, SHORT: In practically every instance. Just looking at the map here, offhand I don't see any - The sewers are prcposed to go • in the public right of ways where the public has rights in the streets and the streets having been dedicated by the parties who platted the property and �nhere it :aill not be necessary fcr tha village and � � 2` • the people paying for the imprcvement to pay private property cwners for private property easements. Those things are expensive and time consuming. In a block of 12 lcts you may be able to obtain easements frcm 1Q or 1] cf the people. If the one person holds it up then it's necessary tc resort tc condemnation which, since the netiv law cf the last legislature. means a wating perio8 cf 21 days after the nctices. It can sometimas hold things up for 2 cr 3 months when thQ thing may be clear on all the cther pro�erty. F.lso, when it comes to the maintenance cf sewers fcllowing constructio�, it's nacessary to get in and get at the manholes and to de that means crossing private prcpQrty, dragging hcses over fences and throu9h flower beds. Generally soeaking, atmost • �vithout excaption, sewers grcposed to be located in the streets work out more practically than those on private property. MRS. JOHNSON: I think the sewer is in the back cf'the house. As I understand, it has to be connected in the back. How does that wcrk? Do you go under the hcuse or arcund the house? Nft. SHORT: That depends on your plu�ding and plumber and how ycu want to pay for it. F further matter is going to be up to the Village Council. They have nct taken acticn to prcvide the manner in whicn service eonnections shall be constructed. hFiS. JGHNS�N: Generally spaaking, how do you get at it? b"R. SHORT: In some tcwns y�u can maka 2 or 3 90 degree bQnds in your sewer. In other communities it's necessary that if you make mvze than.one 90 deqree bend that you prcvide a manhoi� cr. • sccess to get at the sewer and sometimes it's cheaper to tear up nart cf ycur contrete flocr in the basement. That's a hard yuestio:�. It depands on each individual case and, I believe, the ordinance � � 25 � which your village is going to have tc pass regulating the connlcti'cn cf sewers tc hcuses. MRS, JO[-II�iSC,N: In cther v+ords, it's a big job no aiatter how � ycu look a� it. Mii. SHORT: Not necessarily. MAYOR ASHBACH: I'd like tc call on Stan Ulmen, Chairman of the Schccl Board. Do you have anything to say on this matter? NR. STAN OLMEN, 3336 Lake Johanna Aivd.: The only ttiing 2'd like to say is that I'd like te see the sewer c�me in fer school purposes. We have this schnol here which has this drain field and cesspcol. Th�t was all put in �vhen this schooi was remodelad in�hich was about 6 ar 7 years ago and we can leok for.waxd to maybe 3 or 4 morQ years er 5 mare yeazs of being trouble fxea a1th��ugh �.ve pump it out no:v and thsn but sif we have to �ut in another drain field it wculd be yuite a little when you stop to think you hava A00 te 500 children ali using the tcilets every day an enormous amcunt of +vater is going into the drain fields and sc I think h�alth- wise and everything� I think it's a wise 'thing having the sower. MAYOR ASHBACH; I'm glad you say that because �aybe we can come to the school for a little extra essessment. 6'R. GLMEN: The people will pay for it either way. h�S. JOHNSGN: I want tc know, if the issue passes and they start on it, when would we have to do all this? NH�. POFOVICH: Nhat are you askinq - as to when you would hsve � to hook up cr'when it would be ccmpleted7 i�fftS. JOHIJStiDi: Supposo rxrk proceeds as pi.anned » v+hen would it be finished - next iall? NR. POPC'VICH: We feel the ccnstructicn �an be ccmpleted by next fall - all the financing done by next fall - an assessment hearing held next fall with an ass�ssrtwnt to be collected cemmencing 1961. � � 37 � I gather there is ancther pertion to your questicn. When you h�ve to hcck up to it would depend cn •+vhat ordinance the Council .vould pass so far as requirfng hook ups. Scme villages rQquire hcckups within 2 years from the date that service is available in front cf youn c�use. P.fter all, it's really ridiculcus not tc hcck up r�her. you're gcir.g to pay foz the assessment. That is a matter for the people to v�erk rut with the Council as to whother they shculd becoropelled to do it in 2, 3 or 4 yedrs. Naturaliy, the mere peeple hcek up and get into the cPerating system, the sooner we can get that $36.CL` a year down. A�S. JGHNSC:�J: Ycu were talking about the payment being due � in November. Y�.'ere you talking about the year cf 1961? N'�. P4PCiVICH: I was talking abeut the fall ef 19bG. We intend tc hcld an assessment hearing next fall. 4Ye hepe the Council and people will approve it. Eventuaily, scme kind of assessr.,ent has to be approved. You will ther. have ?0 days to pay �ithcut interest. Then it will be ceztified i.n late fall to the Ccunty Auditer and co2lected with youz general taxes beginning 1961. If ycu have a mortgage cn your hr.use, ycu may get a statement from the savings and lcan th at �d.11 increase your monthly payment. This could happen er you coul� get it directly and pay it cne-half and cne-hal£ as you do on your heme. It depends on hoti,� you'se finanCing yeun c�me. Nft. CARL F. CFfftISTENSEN, 1757 Ylest County Raad D: I live � \ abcut tQ0 feet east cf here ad 2'm gcing to take the opposits side cf the argument beGause I don't think the thing is practical, necessary or feasible. In the f irst place, it's abeut as necessary to my property as anether Indian was to General Custer. I`ve got a very good drain field and 9et along nicely and I can't see fcr the next hundred years wherQ my drain field is going to fail. That might � � i � � 27 not be true of everybcdy but that is true for me. Then, if I pay for running that trunk in frcnt - or that line in front of my house, they're gcing to ccmpel me tc hook up and pay the installation fcr the hcokup because that's ��hat Mr. D:povich said they have dcne in Roseville. In a lot of the surrcunding territory here, in other cities and villages, the people have not had to hook up bnt they are fcrcing them te do it in Rcseville. It's not the most fsasible as it's exceedingly impractical. I have here a state�ent signed by the Village Clerk ef the City of Fridley in which he c�.tes a number ef cases (inaudible) He says this is to certify that the cemrlete cost cf water and sewer averages less than $800.00 per 75 foot lct. He said these are all 75 fcct lcts and would represent a gccd example cf what water and sewer services ccst cn a typical lot in the City of Frfdley. In the City of Fridl�y they buy their watQr frcm the City cf Minneapolfs. They don't have theiz own weJls but the cest is under �6G0 per lot. Gn the other side of the Mississippi River just acxoss from Fridley is the Villsge of Brooklyn Center. Fridley has abeut 13000 pcnulation which I think is yuite a bit lerger than Arden Hills� and Broaklyn Center has 27,000. I have a statement from the Village A�ministrator giving the estimated ccst cf sanitary sewer and water improvements in the Village cf Brooktyn Center. cn the east side which is 5hingle Creek to the river, it's mcstly a wet territory, prcbably worse to get thrcugh than any we have in Arden Hills. The cost is abeut $1,135.00 per lot f ar bcth sewer and water. Cin the west side - Shingle Crvek to the west clty ]imits - there is tr.cstly dry territery and the cost runs about �970.00 �;er lot. tdaw they have bzoken that down also for municipal a;�d industrial araas pez unit and they cit� the eest here of mains and appurtenances as �382.00. That includes the wells because they � � � 2a pump their cwn :aater and de not buy it from Minneapolis. It pumps the storage tank� and ths chlorination treatment tank. I didn't have time - I 3ust got this in the mail so I didn't have time tc moke a further investigaticn, but I cal.led the A'anager, Ms. Brubacker of the City of H pkins and he said their pclicy is to nut both sewer and water in together. He reccmmends that bcth be pu� in at the same time because it is very costly and dotivnright foclish to put them in sec�arately because yc•u have tc tear up the nrcnerty 3 cr ' times - the first time for your sanitary se�+er and the second time for your water ar.d the third time cvhen yeu find ��cu need a siorm sewer. I notice also only cne engineering firm has been en9aged herQ. � I wcnder why we didn't hear frcro sume of our cthex engineering firms such as Ccrostcck and Davis, Cirren Engineering. Subur6an in Fridley, Shell and Mattson and Texaton�a in St. Louis Park. Those are a few of the questicns that I'd likQ to have answered befcse I'm satisfied this is a gcod prcposition. A"�;YOR ASHBACH: Carl, I think those are very good questions.. • I thfnk they ccnfront evezyone of us. I thought abcut them many times. t'�e submitted the plans tc ancther engineering firm and they said they reviewed the ptans and they said it was the mcst . eccnomiqal and best way tc hundle the problem we have here. I notice ycu said, why don't we put watQr in. If you want water in we'll be glad to take steps tc seQ that you have water. The estimatQ we had the ether night frcm the suburban efficials sai� it was °�5�U.Q� a lct te put watar in. It's up tc the people as to what they xnnt. You know it isn't reblly kcsher to hire 3 cr 4 different engineering firms to lay out a sewer system. Yau hire as to their experience - as to what the best way is tc handlQ ycur particular � � � �� 24 problem. I know you cited a lot ef villages like Hopkins� Fridley� Brooklyn C�nter. Their problems are a lot different. I suppcse you might even goia the Village of New Brighton and say how dc we compare to New Brighton. In New Brighton th�y'ra paying $7.5C per front foot plus somQthing on gen�ral taxes plus 570.00 extra for a service charge run out te your prop�rty line. I hava talked to many engineers and they said with tha problems we have in eur village that's what we're faced r,ith. Nde're either geing tc livo up to them or d�_: withcut tfiem. There's nc simple way cf dcing these things. Water jusi doesn't flc�v up hill. You he,ve to put in lift statiens. We talked about private treatment plants - ccnsidQxed gcing throuqh the r'tirsenal, and as far as we have been able tc determine, this is the most economical and feasible way cf doing it. If there are any cther experts on hew it can be done cheaper. - I know I for one weuld be one of the first to find it and de it. MR. CHRISTENSEN: The thing I was wcndering abcut is this. If I go to build a house I get estim�tes frcro several contractors and on a thing like this I wonder why ��e cnly have an estimate frcm one firm avhen there are so many around us that sre engaged in the same businQss. !��?. 'rdILLIAk BFNISTEA, B, nister Engineering Company: I'm � Air. Sanister, onQ of tho partners af the Banist6r EngineeTing Cempany. I^ the fi.rst place, we have nothing tc do with the building of the sewers. '��Q design it and dc not build it. To call ir, differen�. engineers - we d:n't do this work for nothing. W� have raada this prQliminary study and have been paid for it. As far as cur position is ccncerned, �ue act - I think T might clarify it for you - we act in the same posfticn as you wouid expect an architect tc act fcr ycu if ycu hsd an architect design youn c�use. And if you calied in cthe= engineers, you would heve tc pay each one to make an independent � . 3C • study and ther0 ars - I can't give y�u the •xact figures - but there are several thcusand dcllars experided for this and the cnly way thet the constructi�n is done is diter ccmpetetive bids. We dnn't dc any constructing. The law is clear that the plans and specificatiens are prepared - must be prepared by law. Thay must be approved by the State Bcard cf Haalth and, in this particular case, they must f urther be appr�ved by the Village of Roseville and, in turn, must be approved by the City cf �t. Paul because ultimstely it goes thrcugh St. Paul. Then after that has been dcne, if the preject goes ahead, then the Council will advertise for bids and the lo�Nest bidder dees the ccnstruction. '�Yp merely supsrvise it as an aschitect that ycv .vculd engage would supervise the ccnstructicn cf ycur house and in that manner and that manner cnly dc w� cperate. Yde do nct • build it. These estimates are an averaga cf ccnstr�ction costs fcr ccmparable sewers in this area and in that way and that way enly h�ve these estimatas i»en{repared. It's nct an estimat� that we come t� ycu and say we will build this sewer fcr you at this c�:.st because we dcn't dc. that and none of thQ cther enqineering firms that ycu mention do that either. I'm yuite familiar with practically all cf them. (r-.ppiause) l�AYGR A;:HBP,CH: I knc.: this is a big decision. Things have tc be decided. NR. CALVIN ti4'ESTPfil�L, 326•t Lake Johanna Blvd.: I have sever�l kuesticns. ��ne which may seem way cut in 14ft field, but I think it's scmething that I wcnder abcut and I think it's scmething that hasn't come up earlier with ragard tc the fcotage cost being assessed • by ycur fr�nt fcrtage. Is th�re any reason or has it ever been dcne that you could taka the tctal cost - in other wordc, I haw an • • 31 • abcve average wida lot but the sewage that ycu put into th� sys,em is nc mcre than a small lot but I�ay mcre. Is th�re any way v+here it has bean done +he_e it's assessed on the prcperty cwner lil:e a blank charge as my properticr, of th� tctal cost instead cf fc,ctage cost? MhYOR ASH3ACH: That, of ccurse, I think has be�n partly explained and that is up to nur Ccuncil cr viltage pciicy hcw they d� this scrt cf thing. I've been wrestling with these things for yuite a while. That's a decisicn to be made yet and I don't know if any ono human being alive can say which is the most fair way cf dcing it. The Council has not yet decided how tc handle that situaticn in every case. There aze so muny different cases. MR. WESTPHAL; K'ith regard to the cverall plan, is there any • possibility of the future developmer,t cf the coaanunities tc the north - and this is lcnq range pianning - increasing in size sufficiently and in pcpulation to the pcint whore they may need sewoge systems. �"le're at thQ end cf the line here the way this has been designed. �^.e'rs on eight inch lfnas. Cibviously you cn't hook on anything smallez than that and hcck on anythinq fxcm nerth cf th� tracks. Ne're at the end cf the lin� with respeet t� this combined Roseville and St. Pau1 system. If, f cr example, the peo^le ncrth cf here want a sewage system, thay are going to have to put in their �:,�m sewage disposal plant r.r conceive ethax means cf moving on tc Minneapolis or New Brightcn or whatever else they may have u� ncrth. la�t. POPUVICH: I think you're antici,r.ating something that • recent facts might dispel this wcrry. The Mounds View Village, which is tc the west of us. aro now proceeding with a water and sewer study which will not hcok up inte Roseville because of the � � 32 • tepography. New 3rightcn will not hcck up because they hav� their cwn systQm through the Twin City Assenal. So far as the north pdrt of this village is concerned, most cf it is taken up in the Frsenal. The balance, between the Ars�nal and the Arms Plant� will go another directicn anyhow. So far as Shoreviaw is concerned, a study is being made there te hook up into the Villagt of Roseville at another point sc all of that is in process now. iu4�. BAfVISTER: To answer your yuestion further, this is a yuestion that has heen wczked on foz about three and a half to four years. Ycu must remem�ber that everything still ends up at one.place at the present time. That's dewn at the so called "Pig's Eye Isiand" and the City of 5t. Paul can't take any mora :hrcugh St. Paul. ��'hQn the line was built out to Rosevill• it was � expanded as large as they could make it, or approximately as larga as - I'm sneaking within reasonable limits you understand - to take in Roseville plus some additfonal drainaqe subh as what we're taiking abcut here tcnight. 2Jow, bafore anything else could be taken care cf there wculd have to be an enlarging of 11nes all the way dcwn to Pig's Eye Island plant, and sc any expanding here now would be just almost guess work and a long range study has been proposed tc include taking in a lot cf considerations and perhaps building several separate plants, not by individual co �nunities but - and it� even besn propcsed and it's up to the legislature I presume t�,r. Fcpcvich - but it's been nroposed that the Twin Ciiy Sanitary District - and that is a rather loose term - be expanded tc take in • the whole area into parts cf r�nok� County and Carver County, Dukota County, parts cf 'Nashington County, atc., in which case � � 33 • it wculdn't be en individual municipality proposition but a part of the District, but still the construction of the sewers in the streets within the individual municipality will sti12 in all probability� as they always have been. be the zesponsibility of that community and not the cverall district sc there are a lot of things abcut it and to make any positfve statements as to tivhat's gcing to happen now, it can't be dcne, anything nc;v is merely a collection system and the cther wculd be done by th� District and that planning.is st311 in the very preli�ninary staqes. NR. tyESTPHAL: Gbviously at this,pcint we'ze almost up to a pcint of making a decision becausa of the emergency of the tim� elemQnt mlith regard to the Roseville system and we �ither go in nc� cr we dcn't go in. R�sume we don't go in, what are the alter- • natives fcr future developments cf the sewer eystem which den't invclve going intc this? k,AYOR ASHBP�CH: N1e have a ccmmitment or rather preTiminary cc�renitment from the Twin City Arsenal for one of their lines tc. take care cf the north part cf the Village. And if it wasn't for the Villa9e cf Arden Hills ��vorking with Roseville, this connectien would nct even be available now for us and as ycu said� if we don`t take advantage of that enlarging nov� we will have tc go dov:n their streets and re-lay all new pipe which would be a tremandous cost or just sit here vith cur ccst and have to en�orce a cess�col or drainage law sc those pQople whc have be�n comp2aining tc the Village Council and, in fairness tc our neiqhbors, that ycu dcr.'t have the nuisance cf cverflcwing sewaga (inaudibl�). No•�M • ccmes a chance where we can help ourselvas. It dep�nds on us as taxpoyers if we want to do it or not. Right now we havQ this ❑ � 34 • imroediate problem and this is the beat way we know to beat it. N�t, :t�c�TPFiP.L: There is ne planned alt�rnative. say in 5 to 10 years, cf gcing tc something cther than this. 'Ihis is sompthing unpredictable at this time. �:,A.YOR ASHBACH: It's like a pclitician trying to figure cut something. M�i. �rE5TPHAL: I'd like tc say as a citizen cf the area I think it's a good idea 6ut as a man who's gcing to pay the exp�nse cn tay ov,n place which is a�new hcuse very adeyuately designed to tdke care cf my preblems, and my vaater system is apparently adeyuate as is just abcut everybody here as far as pcllution. There have been a lct of wells gcing dry. I would have te say I'm personally opposed. N'R. �AA".E:S r,. LP.f.G� 32=.0 Idew Brightor, Re�d: I want tc qo on � record as cp�csing this at this time. i think �ve have � few matteTs te decidg, cne cf which is the prcblem of assessment that hasn't been settled. The cther rne is the matter cf ccnnsctien from the street. 7�e have talked rather locsely about two �r thxee cr cne 9C degree bends ceming out at the back cf th� hcuse to get to the street. I dcn't believe a great many peopl.e know what the crst might be involved if they had to go info manhol�s. (inaudible) if that wculd be mandatory cr if it wculdn't or if they hav� tc tear up the floor and go through the house. This touid cast a lot more than g2CG.0�. I'm c�n1_y aqainst this propossl bacause I don't think we know enough about it. I think it'e qood foz the area but we have to know what we're gcdng to pay. Nov�, as tc the matter of assessments an a front faot basis, I have haard tavaral say thoy • have large lots. So have I. I'm not going to get as much bentfit frcm tha sewer as somabody cn a 5U foot lot. I would nevez have to I � � � K�� have it. I hava a good sewage system disposal so I don't nQed it but I would gc alcng with it because it's for the good of those whc come in later and bought en littla cramped lots and have to hava it but I don't like to pay two or three ti�s as much ss thoss who have smaller lcts. First question: Sewer cn the •ast side of t:ew Brighton Road. That's going tc come alcng� cut up all of the scdded area along thar rcad. YJill that be restcred cr will I h�ve to do that. MA. 3HOR7: Gur estimates include the ccst of resodding on the edge cf Ccunty roads whQr� the eewer isn't constructed in the middla cf :he road. t.4t. LAttG: How daop, or dc some af us hava tc put in li£t � pumps? h•gt. SHGRT: If ycu study the maps. certain hcuses are shcwn to receive no service whatsoever because they're lccated down below the str¢et. There are a few limited number. Cn your street the sewer v+ill be at adeyuate depth so you'll have bas�ment service drainage and wcn't find putting in lift stations nocessary. As to the depth of the sewer in frcnt cf yrun c��use, these should b� nc prcbtem at all conn�cting to the sewer and prcviding baseaient drainage. ihe sewer 5ystem here as designed, and with the exceptiona shcwn on the map, the sewer is desi9ned tc provid� basenwnt drainage tc the hcmes by gravity and not by pump. P�t. LAt7G: ?his will be generally throughout tha arQa. h�t. SHORT: Exceptions are shcwn on the map which was prcvidad � tc the Council 14 or 15 months �gc. hR. L1.fJG: I'm in favor but I do think at least a ccupls of thcse matters shculd be settled by the Couneil befcre we preeaed. Otherwise, we're buying somethinq without any id�a of what w�'rQ I � � 36 • poying fcr it as far as cur perscnal ccsts wi11 go. h�tYOA ASHSACH: l�:r. Lang, we have tc take bids bQforQ w� decid� what the cost will be and Z dcn't think it's £essib�e to have bids taken on a prcject that we don't kncw if it's geing tc go ahead. M'i. LAA�G: We won't know the exact por foet ccst but we will know th� way it's apportioned. MAYGR ASHBACH: I think you hav� a good estimate. Take Arden Hille 3 where the estimate p�z foet was $12.50. I understand now it appears it will be approximately right around the $lO.Op f ig ure . IV�. LANG: I'm in acc�rd with the gentleman who spoke cver thQre that while we whc have large lots and have gcod sewage � disocsal systems shculd pay twe or thzee timas vahat sow�body whc has tc h�ve it bacause they're cn a small lot. l�AYOR ASH9ACHe Thore's such a thing as coffinunity spirit. Vie're all in here tc help eath cther and it's anly fair that we work tcg�ther and help each other. You r�iflht ask,why this is nct on g�neral taxes cver tha �ntira village. N.ost villages have c:nQ main interceptcr that will take eare ef the whole villaqe. It's not sc in our area. Each area is sQrved by its only little trunk line and it's beon determined that each area should pay for its cwn individuai ccst. Tht. POPGVICH: If ycu have a more expensive hcuse ycu pay more There is no such thing es eyuality in taxation. The thing that ycu have to remember is that Lhis is th� average apprcach as what w� • think the averago frcnt foot assessment wi11 be. In those araas where they receive no bonQfits, for example 13 cr 14 cf these houaes / � � 37 • that are tco low, they're nct gcing to be assessed. On the cther hand, if ycu have a 175 foot lot and ycur house is located cn it in such a way that ycu can sell half of that and samebody else can build next tc you, then that lot, the who1Q 175 faet, has received a benefit and you'll com� back and say ycu don't intend to sell that lot. You bcught this frentage so you eould keep it, but� if the lot is able to be divided, scme day you miqht die cr sell or ycur wife might sell and Jchn Jones thon cwns the prepQrty. tie has a sewer in frent of ft. He determines tc sell hslf cf that 175 feet. Does that person who moves cn then pay no assessment at ail? Sc there are a lot cf factczs and ycv've gct tc lcok at it that b�fcr• an assessm�nt is made we have an assessment hearinq. Each individual person can come in, look at � the home and prcperty. see the front footage. We advertise before the hearing is held and that's the purpose ef an assessment hearing - tc go into the individual things. Tha law dcesn't presuppose that we shculd be able.to go into them now because too much of it is based on hypothetical things and what the ccnstruction costs �.vill be and things of that nature, but if the exp�rience here is like anywhere else in this area - tYhite Hear cr Rcsevill• or what have ycu - that are semewhat eimilas, nobody svill gat rooked s� far as paying more than somebody else so far as the bQnefits as tc what he cr sha will receive. ti�. SHORT: Mr. Lang called us yosterday relative t� his pi�ce cf prcperty and diecueced in detail the locaticn of proposed ��w�rs. Your heme is south of the fira station. Th� sewer that's pruposad • in this preliminary plan is proposed te come up frcm Edgewater Stre�t cn thQ east side of th� New Brighton Road as far as ycun c�me. I . . �� m :Jow� the s�wer fc•r the fire hall is prcpcsed ic cro6a New Brightcn from the �nd of Jerrold sc there won't be a a�w�r entire•ly acrc;ss y�ur prcperty. The stwer would bQ construct�d a sufficient distance tc prwide service to yar hoa�e and if there is another buildfng site tc the north of it ycu ccujd extend the sewQr cn to service that so I d�n't beliave it's entirely ccrrect that there wculd be a full 175 fcot assessment.cn your pruperty. M�t. LA'VG: We're de�ling with a preliminary plan and by your cwn admission that could change. 2�Ft. SHGRTc I said that it was preposed tc come acress Jarrold � U and with the laycut of land az it is I can't see a`practical reason for changing it. That's tha reabon for tho amount of study that'e put into the study cf a preliminary rapert that is submitted tc the Ceuncil and to a qroup to considar at a publie h�aring. NR. T.F�NG: W��re buying something that we don't know what it's going to ccst� I'm taikinq about the ccst te:the individual hcm� owner and how it }vill bo divided and-what the ccnnection cest wili ccst him. N�,YOR ASHBACN: As I said, Ns. Lany, we discussed if we - couldn't have some formula ahead cf time. Aftar talking to sevaral enginears and Mr. Popovich and cthers whc have graat experiente in this� thQy said we just couldn't do it because every caee is sc different dapending on the lots. Do you knotiv in thQ Village of . New i3rightcn, RosevilU cr any othez dictrict whe;e they hava s�wers` where that prcblem was so insurmountable that it's never b�en ..djusted. l�t. LAt1G: PJc, but you can wa.lk intc those things and then • • 39 , • car�{ do anything about it. N.AYOR ASHBr,CH: First ti��e have te decide if wQ have' a problem. 2f w� have, we have te wcrk these thin9s out. !�'Fi. VICTOR POMEREtJKE, 2027 Glen Paul AvenuQ: I'd liko to gc on reccrd as being thorcughly in favor cf th� sewer: S hava 12Q feef acress the fzont. I have a c�sspool in tho frcnt and one in the back. I have had trcuble with sewera. I've pumpod sewers, bcy. (langhter} 'I have T brcthers and 3 sister� and if there'� ccm�any coming, get cut the pump. Th�y've all got kids and I'm so sick of that S hope I never have to pump;anather cQsspool and I hope tho sewers come and the sconer the better. (appl8uae) MA.YOR ASHBACH:. I m£ght add further in relation to the cran ahead of ycu where'he asked abcut thQ hcok up, I�ee nc'reascn • why a villaqe council coul.dn't have in their ordinance socoe flexibility so ff ycu have a satisfactcry drain f ield cr cesspool and it met the rigid standards of ths haaith cede of the State and Village, that thsy co�ldn't kQep using that as Long es it met those standards. I don't;see why they havQ tc connsct up in 1, 2 or 3 years. I den'# see any reascn`to force peaple t�. spend more money than necessary. t�S. YIILLIA}.' RiyCGRJS, 1887 Edgewater:Road: I'm a21 in favcr of it but you staried talking about r+han the ass�ssdwntc would ccmQ due, but when wculd wQ be abls "tc use th� sewer previd�d the CounCil go�s ahead with it at thic titn�. Wha:r would w� g�t the ben4fit cf it? . N�AYOA ASHBACH: Y•u must realize thet's dspendent cn when Roseville brings the pipe up to our line end wh�n th�t's th�re we' should have cur system r�ady tc hook into it so Z'lI ask tht enqin��z I � �� fcr Roseville when that :rill be. . � N�R. 3ANISTER: Under all reasonable expectations, barring something nobody can fcresea at this time, and this pr�c�edc �vithin a reasonable time, you should be abla to Conn�ct to the sewer and use it next fall, approximately one year froro �ow� or a little sconer. l�iS. RBCOADS: YJhen they put in the stub, do they ccnsult the prcperty owner ae to where they will lc�cate it? kR. SHORT: I think I can answer that because riqht at the mcment they're building sewers cv�r in P.rdm Hills Wo. 3 subdivision and ona cf our men has been working lcCating the c.utlets fcr the pecplQ sn they will prc,pQrly connett up to thelr henses. Pe�ple have been ccnsulted. He has bean working fer a . couple cf hcurs a day fcr the last �v�ek. �RS. RBCORDS: Thie 90 degree angl• business, that would b� true if your outlet is at.the back of your house and you have to come out without gcinq through the basement. IVR. SHORT: Let me explain somethiny on that. This 90 degree � cutlet has been talkad abc.ut a great deal. In most homas the goil pipe stack or vent pipo that rises frcm the basemant is usually placad, if it's not alcnq a side wall� usually placed along a back wall and cfton tfm�s placad more on ona ccrner than the cther and perhaps there has been a little more concern here about cesspcols in the back of the property than necessary b�cause if a stack ccmes dcwn 8 or 10 feet frcm the back cosner it's l�ss expensive to gc in and break out 8 cr 10 feeL of ccncrete on the ncrth wall. Turn the elbor of the stack and then on the eutside cf the hcuce continut th� ccnnaction out tc a 9C d�gree bQnd / � 41 � I� U cr two 45 digree bends. Then sideways and back intc thr housl. MRS. RHCORDS: Is that 40 degree angle bad? MR. SHCRT: Most plumbing codes provide that one 90 degroe bend may be installed. A qood resecn fcr that is when you'r� rodding eut a sew�r you can prcbably negotiate with your rodding equipment one 90 degzea bend but, for instsnce� suppoeing you go eut the back of your heuse, go 90 degraes, than sideways and another 9C degrees and the plu9ging is cut nsar the stre�t. You have tr gc areund two comp2tte corners befcre ycu got tc the plugging. That's why is good, if it's reasonable and pessible at all, tc ke�p the number cf bends dcwn to a minimum. It's just good maintenance tc your own sewer. N&iS. RBCGRDS: I notice the tctal cost of Improvement No. 1 � was estimated� or will be, $130,000, and in this area the estimated ccst is g322,000 plus and this area doesn't look any bigger. I�. SFi�T: In Imprcvement Nc. 1. actually the only ar�a is this cne - the amall area of nrden Hills No. 3� and in the rtst cf this aree th�e was no construGtion at a11. hR. T. CHE21NAtAC, 3473 Lake Johanna Slvd.: There was a quest.ion about sewers gcing through the pscgsrty. According tc this brcchure it runs right thraugh my prap�rty and also runs in the frcnt cf it. Ho�N will they figure the cost cn that? hR. SF�RT: In the asses�mants. h¢t. CHENNAUS: I dcn't even need it. NAYOR ASH9F�H: He has a s�wor that 9oes thrcugh his property � and acress the frcnt and he wants to krav how he �1 be aBsassed. You will cnly ba assessed on beneficial use. If you can anly use it for one house you will cnly be char9ed fer one ccnriection. fu�t. CHENNAUX: v+here will it hcok - in the frcnt of�the back? I � � ❑ A?t. SHORT: H� can hcok on eithes placo. DR. EDWARD F. ':JALSH, 1a01 Forest Lane: 42 i'm for the project. I think there are many here that may have mor• confidenca in the ability af their present sewagQ system to sustain themselvea and I wcuid just wonder� frcm my own absezvation, I think �veryone has trouble with thQir systems, no mattez how fine; after a period of perhaps 7 cr 8 years. I think probably Dot Sekhen� frcm the many cr,mplaints he has had� can probably give an idea to those people who feel very ccmpcsed in their present wcrking system which I dcn't think is gring to hold cut, !�. EDvdIN SE�IARD, 1850 Grant Acad: 'Nhat is so wrong with � � taking a gote cn this in a democratic manner. Some peopla are more elcyuent than cthers. N�fi. PGPCV2CH: 7he rQason,ycu don't take a vc:te on an imprevement hearing cf this type is because a matter cf this type is not village- wide. In other w�rds, it cmly affeets a partieular poxtien of th� village and conseyuently� the cnly thinq that a village can do if it does hcld an election is tc hold it village-wide. You have cther oeople then vcting on a prcblem that is of inttrest only to you. No legal electien can ever be hQld in a portion of a village. Therefcre� the League cf N:inn�sota Municipalities some years ago - all the ccmmunities in the state banded tcgether and thi6 local imprcvement code was first passad in 1953 repealing all former acts and amended in 1959 in minor ways sc wo have baan working under a lceal 3mprovacnQnt ccda to allow improvements� whether stre�ts cr sewers� Curbs cr gutters, it ccvers anything that has to do with ir�Prcvements and alloivs 1t tc be done in porticns rf a viilag• sc you don�t have this prcblem of vcting. Only voting is requir�d if yc.0 decida to go into wattr. There an el�ction muet be held village-wid� � ' • 43 � M�Ft. RGBERT FLESCH, 1975 Jerrcld: I think I'm in favor of the se�Hage system. No question about it. I've had trouble 2nd maybe I'm getting old, but I hate digging these dxain fields. The yuesticn I have tc ask is relative tc. the ccst cf building the sewage system. Do we kno�r+ hew Maplewcod fiasnced their bcnds versus Rcseville? b¢i. POPUVICH: I'm familiar with the Maplewood cparaticn. They're special ass�ssments. i+�i. FLESCH: I mean as far as seliing their bonds to an organizaticn tike a bank cr semething. NFt. POPOVICH: They proceeded under the negotiated basis. They sold scme t�e and h half million dollazs to a bcnd hou�e without public bid. You can analyze it whichevsr way yon �rant. . Perscnally I favcr public letting and what we wili de fcr the Council is once we have determined what cur maturitits are we. will invite any bank er investment house tc bid. NR. FLESCH: Doesn�t it ccst more that way?�� NR. POPCVICH: Hotr �an ycu prcve it? If yov financed tcday ycu wculd pay cne kind cf inter�st rato. Three years agc if ycu had scld bcnds it would be at least a percent cr a percent and a half less. YJhat do you ccmpare? Here, this is going tc be hadlQd so quickly that I don't see the value of it althro ugh sortw ccmmunities have dcne it. This Council has dttermined that all ef the publie Zetting is going to be dcn� by publie bidding and it's up tc• you to d�cide whether that's good policy or not. 1�4i. Bl+NISTER: Gf course, we wcrk with a lct cf diffarent • projects and different m�thods cf finanCing. It's genezally considered that a public sale such as is proposed here is to th� bfet ir:tarests of the community. In projects wher� we have beQn doing I • • 44 � the engineering it's probably been fifty perc�nt publlc saTe and fifty percent negctiated sale such as Maplawood did, and th�re's always the questicn on a neqotiated sale. Somebody gave a sales pitch and he did a little more •ntertaininq and therQ's �1�-vays rcom for suspicion on it where if it's public sal�, th� lewest bidder- the guy that gives the best interest rato - is the cne that buys the bonds and frcm that standpoint it's usually considered a bettar deal for the villaqe.'Ilhe cnly othex thing would be timing and ycu have to time your sale cf bcnds when you nted the meney and when you can bu31d theprc�ect. NA. RICNAR� DEAN, 3170 New Brightcn Road: I'm in favor ef thf sewage system. I built a new house twc years ago and alr�ady put prcvisicns in to go out to the street. I have my cesspool in th� • back sc I had them ron a stub acress the basement floor� but my yuestion is, I have several large oak trees in the front yard. 14'ould the rocts bother thQ pipe. Ara the pipes root proof that th�y put in today or wiil they fill up with roots? TdEi. SHOR7: You have a choice and this again depsnds cn what your Council decides. There are ssveral difforent types cf pipa.. FI',ST�R BEL'P, Trinity Lutheran Church� 32d5 YJew Briqhton Road: I'd just like te emphasiza what was said heze with ragard tc so� cf the sewer syst�ms not always working. lNe feQl we have an adequate sewer eystem at the present titn�. I'm not going to say it will be adequato next week or next year. It has been in ten and a half yoszs. We had a we21 and two months agc I would � have told yau our well �vas working fine and since that Eime we have put in a new well and gcne dewn twice as dsep aa w� wont b�for�. So far as these sewer systems we have now- cesspools and septic tan&s - I dcn't think anycne can say they h8ve a system thst will ccntinul�- � � � a5 to vvcrk indefinitely but T was ccncerned fn getting an answer tc our p�rticular situaticn. I think it's very nice that we get all that sewage prctection but I don't think we r.eed 980 feet bcrdering our property. In fact, I think if we had to pay by foatage it would be cheaper fcr us t� relocate the church. Perhaps there is an answer tc that. I just thought of it whe� New Brightcn Road was mentioned before. WeTre almost surrounded by sewer pipe. t�Fi. POPOVICH: Let me say that you won't have to pay a frcnt � footage all the way across. The situation is such that where ycu run into places like this where you have a public schcol cr a church cr some other large use where the character and the future use cf that land is therefcre set and you know it's nc: going to change, such as being just plain vacant land, we make a limited assessment and you wi1L be advised cf it. In fact, they may even discuss it with ycu before it's finally determined. Ycu fall in the same categc:ry as the public and parechial sehool beeause of the amcunt cf land and the kind of building �n it and what the land £s used fc.r. In Rcseville we sat dawn with the Roseville school people first and went cver it and worked cut these benefits together sc i: was a sort cf a mutual operation. It's a limited assessment based cn the type of use that land ie being given. �t. RUSSELL OLSON. 1986 Glen Paul Avenue: Do people pay aCccrding to the depth of the sewer in front of their houae cr is it an overall - h4t. SHORT: An overall. NFi. RCBERT V�ILLIAMS, 145C Arden Place: 2 want tv say I'm �J very c�uch in favcr of this. I th3nk we compound cur problems by waiting. You said earlier. h'�r. Ashbsch, that a petition would gc fcr a rcad cr sewer cr anythi�g else signed by a certain number of I � � 46 • benefited peeple - brin9 it before the Council. I recall �arli�r this year I gct iRterested in this as far as my own area was concerned and I took a petition around our area and got around 35� of the signature s of the pecple. I wcndezed whether we'ze going fast enough with this and why th�t area isn't includad. N�AYOR ASHBACH: That area by necessity has to have a trunk through Arden Hills N�. 2 and dcwn Hamlina Avenue and� of course� at the time we were talking abcut Arden Hills I, Rosevill� was getting ready to le: ccntracts and we had tc l�t them knativ immediately if we would gc ahead cn tha enlarging of the Roseville se�ver sc ycur area and all the cthers cn the east side of the Laka could be joined to it. At that time there was intarest in Arden Hills 3. I fcr on� was opposed to go Qast cf the lak• because we know cf the tremendous cost involved and i for ene atn reluctant tc push scmething where it will put a great burden on the p�ople unl.ess they really want it sc we went with Arden Hills 3 for the immediate service. Nit. PJILLIAMS: I gct roughly 35% of the signatures and by no means did I go to alt of the people and I think I couid have getten 50d if I had pushed it and with that preponderance cf that majority 2 wandered why it hadn't gone ahead. h`AYOR A5H9F,CH: That's part cf the reason and I'll take scme � cf the responsibility and I suppose aIl of us on the Council should because we haven't pushed it particularly. i hesitate to push thin9s like that because Z knnw th�re are ether immediato areas that should go ahead and if you ga tao fast pecple think yon're trying to steam rcller and trying to push it on tham. NAR. WILLIAMS: I think I speak for the roajority of the p�oplo I have talked with in Prden 1 that we would lik� to urge the Council � � � �� to go ahead in cur area. We don't have any partiwlar prcblems but just think it's gecd. (F�pplause) 11R. DENNIS COVHER, 1905 Jerrold Avenue: I came for cne purpcse - tc go on reccrd as being 100� fcr this sewer. I'm willing tc share my part. I have cne question in the back cf my mind and that is ccncerning the street. lAle have a very good street and I'm wcndezing just Nhat it's going to ccst us tc replace that street after the sewer tears it up. N,AYOR A.SHBP+CH: Street ccnstruction in youx area - based on � the type cf soil that you have - It should not be cf the most expensive type tc replace because cf the sandy soil. Te give ycu an actual figure, I cculdn't dc that new, but wQ wcuki intend to do scmething - have a public heering and ge 3ntc that matter at a later date. it's felt generally that it isn't prcper tc repava the streets iaenediately after they put the sewer in. They should set cver winter to allcw them to settle because I feel diere �11 always be some settling. Falcon Heights has discontinued theiz practice of filling in the streets i�nediately. Nfft. COVHER: But that will be our cc;st. MAYOR ASHBACH: That's up tc the Council aga4n. The village v�il.l pay a certain portien cf it. It's mcze than proper that they dc. DGUGALD YENNEDY, Villege Councilman: Just onQ pcirtt that I wanted pecpie tc understand hcw I stood cn it because it apparently is a l�ttla different than has been expressed by thQ Maycr and' engineer, and that is the proner time tc be allewed to hook up � tc this sewer in oase it gees thrcugh. A�y own.thcuqhts at present, unless I 9ot some pretty good evidence that wculd cause me tc: change my mind, is that the sooner the�better, and that perhaps one year is � L � bettar than fcur y�ars � �s� If the ecle purpcse cf this sewer wers tc provide adeyuate eewage dispcsal, I would gc along lOp� with the ifayor's thoughts but I think we hav� a much laxger purpose in mind and that is that presentiy, as far as we know, we have no contaminaticn. We're tcld that by our Health Offic�r. We know our wells are deeper and the day when we will hava contawination is prcbably further remcved than in an area that has sandy soil and 30 fcot wells. NevQrtheiess. every day a priyate disposai system is in operation it's contributing tc tho overall contamination of cur village. No othQr place it car. ge. It's bQen pointed eut that ths cost of community water would ccst,about $SGO.00 a lot. Itm no more anxious to have that day arrive in addition to W1,OOO fcr sewer - pay $5CG fcr water and if ycu're paying $SOQ it's 8G� of the ccst of the s�wer anyway immQdiately whether ycu hook up cr nct. Vihy not pay the cther 2C� and perhaps postpone the day that we will ever have to have water. I'm going to vote for 1 ysar hook up, or thereabouts, when that question com�s up and not go along with this - year idea. (Applausa) NR. PAIn, JOHNSON, 1996 Glen Paul Avenu�: (Inaudiblo) - A question about laterals. ....is this based on a certaln volume cf water cr what is it based cn? Iv�i. SHORT: The basis for desi9ning the sewers is based upon � 15 people per acre and I think most cf your lots are soaNwhat - probably including the street - wi11 run probably 5 lots tc the acre or scmething in that nature. Ycur avexage population d�ns�ty according to the planners, run somewhere around 3 p�rsons p�r dwelling - a little bit bettsr in seme ar�as or less in others. The volume of sQwage calculated pQr person ia 100 qallons per � � 49 . • person a day. The sewera are dssigned en the basia cf 4 tirocs the average because yc:ur sewage flows frem ycur hot�ses and in your streets so the small s�wers wi11 vary censidQrably from minimum to maximum. During the morning ycu have a high flow and �gain around supper you have a high flew which tapers cff to practically nothing af'er midnight. The 8 inch sewers are minimum as permitted by the tv',innesota De�artment of Health. The 8 inch sewers that are utilixed here are dasf9ned on the basis that I speak of and that is 15 people p�r acra a�d 1C^ gallons per perscn aer day with 4 tim�s that which the sewer must be capable ef taking. There's nc need to have larger than & inch svwers. On a pcpulation basis an 8 inch sewer will normally serve frcm 30 tc 40 acres without being overlcaded for • dcmestic use and as ycu can see, there aren't any 3G or.4G acre areas coming in here. FRGM THE AUDIENCE: Am I right in assumt that 35� cf the property owners affected in this project can qo ahQad with this deal over the cbjections of 65%? M�.YOR ASH9AiCH: If four-fifths of the Councii votes "yQs" a£ter a hearing lik! this, yQs. SAhiE PERSON: They can go ahead regardiess. h4?. VINCENT COUATNEY, Vill�ge Attcrney: I think •what you're referring tc is that 35� can initiate a patiticn. ?hdt procedure hasn't been follcwed here. If 35� initiate a p�tition, then that's submitted to #he Council and the-Ceuncil can make up its mind if it wishes to go ahead. That dcesn't mean that 65� aze opposed . simply because cnly 35% sigrt. TM Council th�n mak�s up its mind • whether fcr the cverall gcod cf the particular area they shculd go ahead with the local improvement- That prccedure has nat bs�n follov+ed � � � 50 here. Tha prccedure follo:ved here and permitted by tt►o local imprcvement code is that the Council has initiated this hearing on its own and that, of course, requires four-fifths approval by the Cotrcil before the imprcvement is put:into effect. Thsre has been no petition submitted here. SAME PERSON: Hera it says 3596. Does it maan that or not? i+fii. COi�tTN�Y: It says that the Statute also provides that � improvements may be initiated by 35� of the affetted property owners. In other wcrds, to get the machinery of the local imprcvewent ccde into operation, 35� of th� proaerty ownars in any particular area thst want this sewer can prepaze a petition and submit it to the Ccuncil. Thq Cou�cil then can call a hearing on it and consider whether ar not they will go ahead and oTder that impavlmont. Cther areas desiring immediate ccnnection service and'not included in this plan can prcceed by the petiticn method. SFlME ?ERSON: If I go cut and get a petition from 35°S of the people that the Council would crder that sewer in? WR. COL)RTt1EY: Are you inciuded in this aouthwest areal SAME PERSON: Z'm northerly. h+�t. CC.URTN�Y: Then the 35yd doesn't apply ta you at all because the Council is already considering the improvsmQnt as it affects this sectcr. In other wcrds, the proceeding has been started. It isn't n�cessary for anyone t� file a petitfon and the Council will come to a determinatfon as to whether they will order the impsovem�nt on the basis cf the response here tanight. SAtAE PFASOtd: If 35% of them are in favor of it her0 toriight� � then the Council will gr. ahead? hR. COLttTt1EY: The 35;� applies cnty tc com¢:sncing a local improvement prccedure. It has no bearing on whlther th� Council � � decides to ordsr it ox not. � 2t isn't necessaxy cr is it 51 ccntemplated that any vc.te will be taken at this heazing. It's a matter for the Council to determine cn the overall response. t.R. JOHN KEOHEN, 1985 Glen ?aul P.venue: Am I to understand that the reaction ef this meeting ��11 be ho�r. you decide as to �„hethez cr not ycu will ge ohead �•iith this i.mprovement? 1'.�,YOR ASH9ACH: The Councfl can v�te this imprcvement in by a four-fifths vote cf the Council. hR. KEOHEN: I'd like tc go on reccrd that I'm 1QG% in favor cf this sew.er action and the sooner the better. CARL LANG. Lake Johanna Blvd.: I want to qo on record as being in favcr of this lOG9S. Ngt. JIM SHELLSTA, Ccunty Bosd 8. 2'm in favor. � f avc�r cf the imprevement . NR. DAVID THOA4PSG�1, 329G Lake Jt•l�anna Blvd.: I'm 3n 1�R. JEAOM�E TIhW, 1400 Cummings Lane: I'm not a resident uf � the propased improvement area, I want to brinq up one point. It was brcught up by b"aycr Ashbach this evening and if it was considered by the Councit it wnuld have a 9rea# deal of bearing upon everyones financial situatfcn,that would be that if they dc have an edequate sewage disposal system 3n their property that they do not have to hook up immediately or in, let's say a year cr twc. because, lef's put it this way bluntly, in 3 cr A years a lot of people are gcing tc be in a better position to pay their whole prograr� lock, stock and barrel, than they ar4 today� tomorrow or a yeaz from now. L�t. NII.LIRM CREDI�, 3191 Shorev�cod Drive: I have a n�w installation and nQw house and I have f ive women and I'm afraid cf my sewer. (Laughter) � � � � 52 N�t. ROBER'f HANSON� 1850 Glen Paul Road: I don't have any particular objection to sewers. However� I have h�ard a lot of "ffs" and "mayba'c" ta the extent that 5350,OOD is a fiqure that has baen kicked axound here and in my houae that's a 1ot of monay. You say thesQ are estimated figures. I have some hesi- tation in going alc•ng with it inasmuch as we're forced into a position where w�'re puttingthe cart before the horse which you stated that you couldn't subl�t bids cr whatever you call it, untii tha pro9ram was initietod and furth�rmore the es�assment would not arrive until next fall and between now and then the cest cf labor and materials could even be doublo what thQy ara now. We don't know what tho future holds and under that basis it's a point well taken that in a program of this magniturQ without any atronger definit�n�ss about costs cr the sattl�ment cf many of #h�se ifs and mayb�s that I for one hesitat• tc proceed. Ml3YOR ASHHP�H: Suppose we take bids. SupQos• they ga ovar our estimates. tiVe don't have to awaxd the contract. �9� sit back and s�e what causad it and readvertis�. I hate to say things ar* qoing to happen btoauae I oannot say and no ont can say. However� if we take bids and thQy are considerably lesa than we e:timated. fina. Then you know your eost ia�ediately - what the cost will b� - then we can determine whether we want to go ahead cr not, but if thay're way ov�rh�ad, we rej�ct them. t�t. HANSON: I can appreciate ycur position but I say in the � magniture of th� money we're kicking aroand here this evrning and as you atated just a second ago that you couldn't be definite about it� I say that is the one draw baek and fallacy of the program is over, I would eay, 50p� of the qu�stions asked toaight did not obtain a definite anawer to thsm. It was an "if" or a"maybe" or � � � r an estimata cr so�thing elae involved and wh�n you've got $350,000 hQre kicking around I think we should be a littl• mart definita. � MAYOR ASNBACH: I assure you when bids are taken and bffort contracts are awarded, I am sure the Council will be glad to tell you with a lot elos�r degret cf accuracy what the cost vv111 b4 so you'll know what your ccsts are and ycu won't be obligated until we know what that will be. I�t. HANSONs At that time I'aa already committed to ths prcgram. MAYOR ASHBACH: You'r• not cc�mnitted until the cantractor � bogins tha eenstruction. N�t. HANSO[d: I understand constxuction will ba dons immadiately. MAYOR ASHBACH: Providod suitabl• bids are receivad. l�t. HANSON: What dnfs that msan? INAYC)R ASHBACH: I would say if we got a bid boneath our eatimat• that would be a good bid. MR. DALE RAW� 1950 Jesrold Avenue: 2'm in favor of the project. AhR. DAVSD WESTLUND, 3a31 Sandaen Road: I waa wondoring if the Council has consider�d cembining the water and ths aewage. Consid�r it at least and find out what the diff�r�nca would be in assessments betwsen the two. MAYOR ASHBACH: That's a biq prcblfm and I think that has to C� be v311age wids because of tha capital invesments for that sart bf thing. 1�. BAtiISTIIt: One thing that you would hsv� to consider. the cnly eppratiabl� savin9 in cost - assuming that prioes dcn't go up or down - would ba in the tearing up of th� str�et because tbe 53 � ❑ • watez and sawer cannot be in the same trench. They must be separated by a minimum of 10 fest so you atiil have to dig two separate trenchfs. 54 t�i. POPOVICH: Bsfcre you can gc into water, th� viila9a � has to vote as to whQther th�y ahould embark en a water utilities program. As far as sew�rs, you can go by this progra� and just 9iva them to the parts where it's neoded, so what you would b� trying to do is combine a village-wid� proj�ct, by reason of this vote. with a portion of th�sa improvements we're doinq whan th� two don't really jibe toqether partfcularly. On top of that, with the costs where they ar• now and yo� add thQ water�costs� you would have a sizeabl• increa�e in your mill rete plus an increased ass�ssrtwnt. Now, if they can qo ahead with sew�r and put it in and have a roasonabla assessment and gat thosQ bonds paid cff and not have any pollution because the sewer wili prav�nt tht pollution� at least it should tend to prev�nt thQ pollution� you wouldn't hav� tc go into water until - or maybe never - but then you would be in a better financial position to do it lat�r. l�t. OLMEN: I was just looking at the map and I notic�d my house - I'm Qither the firat floor or none and what would that ba if it's on the first floor laval only? IuFt. POPOVICH: You would pay a reduced asssssrosnt because you would not b• qetting complets s�rvice. hEi, DONALD CHARLES, 1920 Jerrold Avenue: I'm in favor of a this project. Is there any way we could find out the result cf thic m��ting tonight? i�bAYOR ASHBA�CHz It's up to ths Council whether thQy want to act cn it tonight or lay it ove=. =�te have to act on it within six � � months. � . 55 MR. CHARLES: I took a patition down County Raad D and out of 24 wQ had two that w�ran't homo. Evtrycn• else signed that thay wantad to put it in. (laughter) ....rabbl� rousors. N�{. DGUGLAS BARTHENY� 1926 Jarrold: I want to go on record as beinq in favor of this proj�ct. HRS. F.MMET wILLIAMS, 3355 Leke Johanna Blvd.� I want to go on record as beinq lOCpS for !h� sewer. I�4i. HENRY CMiISTOPHFRSON, JR.. 3300 New Brighton Roads Will there be any restrittiens as to having to fill your essspcol and sQptic tank within a limited awount of timf? MAYOR ASHBSCH: aYs've thought about it but we haven't.come to a decisicn. . bR. SHORT: In Roseville they requiro you to pwnp out end : fill if the sewer go�s through it. It's a problem your Council is going to have to conaid�r and d�cide but I would say gtner8lly that it isn't reyuired in most communities. iu�t. CHRISTOPHERSON: I'd lika to be recordad in favox. 1�t. JGF�R4 HEDBERG, 1971 Gien paul: My lot is_ about 86� feet deep and 140 across the front and I'm wondering what kind of considQration that w£11 get. I suppcsQ I should diract this tc � . Mr. Popovich. t,�t, BANISTER: Final determination of that woutd rest with the Council but usually in a case like that you uae the short dimension. In oth�r words, if ycur lot is cnly 86 feet desp and cno hundred and somQ faet acrnss thQ front you would usualiy use tha short distance rf the lot. N4�. HEqBERG: I'm all in favor of thet. I�t. HANIS7ER: But Lhe decision is up to the Council. � � � � � 56 1�. HEDBERG: P7hat is thQ pcsiticn of the Council with regard tc watar now or in the future �:!` have thay consider�d it? NR. PC�POVICH: I'll take the Coun�il off the hook because this record has to do with Improvemsnt Nc. 2 and wat�r is no part of that. NH. HEDSERG: Yhe reason I raised it, Mr. Christensen ci#ed a report frem the Hopkins A9ayoz that.said you're crazy not to put it tcgether. 1uR. POPOVICH; It has nothing to do with this hearing. 7hQ purpose of this is tc determine whether yeu're in favor or opposed to this preject. NR. HEDBERG: Wculd there be a saving ff the twc were combined? [�. POPGVICH: No, the engineer has answered that. Tht only � saving wculd be cn the street surfacing. Nff:. HOVJP.RD V�iNDER1YYST, 2020 Glen Paul: I'm in favr,r of the imprcvement. t�73, KEN RYAM, 2021 Glen Paul: I'm very much in favcr. My heuse is 6 years old and in that t ime I've spent about $1d0 a year maintaining my present system. It still daesn't �aork. MAYOR ASHBACH: I£ there are any £urther yuestions cf the Council � Weli then, you're nerfectly welcome to stay here. The Council will discuss the situatfon ancl determine what course it will take. I want to thank you for coming out and I hope we presented it as best as we could with what wa had to work with. We know it was "iffy" but we can settle that a little later. NR. BARTHENY: I think ycu did a grand �ob, Bob. (Applause) .....The meeting adjourned at 10:35 P.M...... I � �� Extract of I�inut�s of 1�ea�tin4 of th� ' + Villaqe Council of th� Vi�laq• of Ard�n H�lls, Fiamsey;Coantrr Minn�sota H�ld 0ctob�r 20. i959'. - � Pursuant Lo �w esll ac�E notic�. tharto�€,` a speai�l �t�tiaq : and public h�arirsq of th�'Yi31ay� Coueii oi tht Viltaq� Of Asd*n` Hillt, Minn�sota. was �luly M1d at Li�k! Jahl�t�na School �a said Village on Tuesday� the 2Qth.aary of UetoMx,'"1959� at 8��0 fl'clo+ek p.M[. Th� following a�u�r� werR p��s�atr �1 _ and ths folflowing w�ra abs�nt: Nona' Th� Mayor aanouna�d. that the wMZiesg' +►as open fas tD� can�td�r- ;ation oi a proposed' sanitary 6ewrlr i�pravf�nt in th� YiI1Ng�. 7i►e C1*rk produced an affidavit showinq publication af;a nvtiG• apptarirsg oR tl� ir�provPra�nt' two w��ke in the officiel nswspap�r af tt►� Vi11�9s. • the iast publltation beinq o� th� 8th day of OctoAts� 1939, wtsith aii'idavit wat sxaeinrd and ozder�d plbc�d on fila. ` ThM i�tapoz th#� talied upon all pxop�rty o�n�rs and intRT�strd indii�idualt px�sant eithiir far or ayainst said propos�d inprov�wtnt. 1'hs P7ropoc�rd,sanitary s�w�r systsm waa sxplainsd to th� individuals prssent"by Lh� vills�� enqin*Rrs, Bani4t�s Hn�tn��i7q Company, and th� villaq� bond consaltant. F��ttr S. Popovfch. 7h� followinq app�ar�d in favor of said tfnpsovnhnt� Dr. lAvhsn S. Sekhon, 14'7� �dgewat�r � Nr, Stan Glmen. 3336 Leke Jchanna Hlvd. Mr. Vittar.Pa�,essnk*, �47 Glen Paul Ave. Mrs. Victor R�eords, I897 Edgpwat�r Rd, Dr. Edward F. Walsh, ldfil Foxest Lsae Mr. Rob�rt FTssch, 1975 Jerr�ld Mr. Aichard Dfan. 317fl N�rr Brighton Road Mr. Robert sYillia�s, 1450 �rden PiAce . Mr. OQnnis Cavher, 190b Jerrold �ve. Mr. John KeoA�n, 3985 Gl�n i�aul Ave. M.r. H<ward Vand�rwyst, 2020 Gl�n Paul M4r. Ken Ryan, 2021 Glan Paul' Alr: Ds1Q Raw� 1950 J�rrold Mr. Carl Lang. Lake Johanna 91vd. blr. Jl.s� Sh�llzta, County Rd. B Mr. David Thompson� 3290 Lake Johanna'91vd. - Mr. Wi111sm Credit, 3191 �hvrewcsoci Drive , Mr. Donald Gharles, 192Q Jerrold Rvenue Ns. Douqlas Berth�ny, 1926 J�rro2d ' Mra: E�met-Williac�s, 3395 Lak� Johanaa Bivd. bdr. H�nsy Christophercort, Jr:, 32�Q N�w Briqhton Road � � � � �� . � �: � Th� followinq appaarW and asked for in�ormetion or iurth�s clarlf icationz Mr. Richard Jan�s, 1863 Gl�n Paul Mr. Jos�ph Crowtt�r, 1890 B�ck�an Mra. Sa�, Jahnson; 1880 Grent Road Mr. T. Chonnaux� 3473 �ak• Jahanna Hlvd. LOr. 6dwin S�wasd, 1850 Grant Roa� Pastor Helta, Tri�ity Lutheran Ck�urah; 3245 Nsw lPrig'htan E€d. Ms. Ruas�ll Ulson, 1986 C3Un Paul tu�r. Paul J�htesan. ' 1998 Glen Paul Mr. Rob�3t Hanson, 1�50 Glen Paul Mr. Uavi.d W�stlu�d� 3261 5�nd��a Rvad : Mr. John }i�db�rg..1971 G1en Pau1 Th� following appt:rsd and •nt+�rtd dbj�otionas Mr. Carl F. Chzist�nsen 1757 Y�. County Aoad D Mr. C&lvin Wes�phal, 32�4;Laks Johenna Blvd. Mr. Jaas A Lan9, 3240 Ntr�r �ighton Roed Aft�r h�srinq rnd canatd�ring all gu�sttoas and t11s arguw,�nta ef p�oponsnta and all abj�ctiona o� the propeaty �+srs appearing, tha Miayor.annaunced the �tt�r �uld,b� lai! ov�r for fistal ��cision at a subs�q��nt Yillaqs Gsuacili�setin� pnssuent tc staCnt�. SSA'CE OF MIt�(ESOTA cou�rY o� x�►�ss�r s.s _ YILCAG& (3F AROHN HILL.S 2, the:undersiqned, Miny th� du�y qualiff�d.an� act�nq Cl�rk of th� V�11age of �,rdQn HilLs, liirsneaeta, do,A�ztby , c�rtify tha3 I hav� car4f uZly compirad th� att�eMd and f oreyoinq extraCt �of ; minutes of tha sp�cial n�+rtirtiq of tha Vitlag• Got�ncil of said vilZeqe held on th� 20th d�y of Octab�r, 1959. +�ith th� oriyinai th�reof on fil� in ary offic�. and th� samt is a tull, tzue and comp��t• �rmscript insofar aa th•- same relat� to Sanitary Stwer I�prov�m�nt Dto. 2 of sal�d village. WITNESS Mf NAND as said Cierk and ths corporat• scal of th• villag� tiais `-�G' day'af Aie�;: 1459. � . � . � � � � -�c^-� �-tt-�..�� ct�->-, � � .. - curaine `Stro�qt�i.st � Villaq� Cl�rk Vil.lag� of Ard� Hills� �linn�so�C (5Er"�L)