HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 11-27-1978,��
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M9NUTE5 OF REGUI.AR COUNCIL MEE;tN6
VflBage of Ard�n Hills
Monday, November 27, i978 - 7:30 p.m.
ViVBage Hall
Cs99 to Order
Pursuant to due call and notic� thereof, Actiog Mayor Woodburn
caeled the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Roil Cali
Present: Acting Mayor Rober4 Woodburn, Councilmen Ward Hanson,
James Wfngert, Charles Crichton. �
Absenf: Mayor Henry J. Crepeau, Jr.
Also Present: Atforney James Lynden, Engfneer ponald Christoffersen,
• Tr�asurer ponald Lamb, Pfanner Orlyn Mtller, Clerk"
Administrator Chariot'te McNiesh, �eputy Clerk Dorothy Zehm.
Approval oi Minutas
Wingert moved, seconded by Hanson, that the Minutes of the Regular
Counc(I Meet(ng of November 13, the Specia) Councii Meeting of
November 06, and the ReguBar Council Meetfng of Novamber !9 be ap-
proved as submitted. Motion carried unanimously.
Bustness from the Fioor
None.
REPORT QF VILLAGE ATTORNEY JAPIES LYNDEN
Resolutfon No. 78-75, Terminatlon of Public Works Employee
Lynden referred Councll to h}s letter of II-27-78 and attached draft
of Resolution No. 78-76.
After discussion, Hanson moved, seconded by Wingert, that Councii
adopt ResoBuflon No. 78-76, Resolution Discharging Pub9ic Works
Emp9oyee 6Jayne Laundervtl9e Effective November 14, 1978, as amended.
hiotton car�ied unantmously.
Zoning Ord�inance Interpretation - Pubiic Utillty.vs. Pu61ic Use
lynden re#erred Councii to Ord(nance No. 99 deftnftfons of "public"
ar;d "pub9ic utiiTty uses"; nofed that If the proposed structures
are considered to be a"puDlic utliity" they are permit#ed, as a
matt�r of right, in ail zones in the V111age (favors thts interpre-
tatlon?; stated that the structures could be argued to be a"pubVtc"
use, in which case, a Special Use Permit ts requiretl in the R-I
and R-2 zones; Ordinance ilsts uses owned or operated by municipal,
school disfrict, county, sta�e or at�tar_� governmental units as
"pubiic", and includes electric power a�d transmisslon Iinss, gas
pips Blnes (not substatidnsP, teCephone, water pumping, reservoiro
and dtstribui�ion facilt?Tes, rallroad trackage (not storage and
switching yards) as "pubBlc utfl(ty uses".
Bn dfscussion, It aas noi-ed tha� tundiny of the storm drai'nage
structuree may require munictpaSity approval ot the 6ina1 pians.
No Counci9 act�oes .as taken.
�proval of 1979 Liauor lfcenses
Counci9 was referrad 4o Lynden°s letter ot lI-20-78 �e 1979 Liquor
License Applicatlons and Certifications. ,
Crlchton moved, sec�n�ed by Hanson, fihai Councd� approve the fol�
Bowino �979 Liquor Licenses, contingent upon correctfons enumerated
ir. A4tosnay's �ett�r, and con-tingent upon receipfi o4 a 4avorable
invesfiga•rion report from the Fire and Police, by the Clerk Rdmini-
si rator.
a. HoteE Managers and Hosts of Minnesota, inc. dibla/ McGutre's
�nn, On-Sale, On-Sale Sunday, Off-Sale.
2. Big Ten Supper Club, Bnc., On-Sale, On-Sale Sunday, Off-SaPe.
3. G,D.M, di°b/a Lindey's Prime Steak House, On-Sale, Off-Sale.
�4, F9aherty's Arden BowB, Bnc., On-Sale, On-Sale Sunday.
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Minu�tes of R�gular Covrcll Mesting
Pago two
November 27, 9978
5. �rden Hiils Ciuh, Inc., On-Sale, On-Sale Sunday.
6. Estben, 9nc. d/bfa BOue Fox 9nn, pn-Sale, On-Sale Sunday.
7. Star Liquors, dnr., Oft-SaVe.
PUBL9C H.ARING
Karth Lake Estafies West - 9mprovement No. 78-3
Actfng Mayor Woodburn opened the.Pubiic Hearing at
Clerk Administrator McN(esh v3rified publicatlon of
Hea�ing i� the New Briyhton Bulletin on November (6
mat96ng of Natice of Hearing to benefitted property
November V5.
4Minutes of Hearing are a�Ptaci�ed.)
8:Q4 p.m. and
Notice of
and 23, and
owners o�i
Wingert moved, seconded 6y Hanson, that Council adapt Resolutton
No. 7.8-.7$, Ordering Improvemen't No. 78-E and aufihortzing prepara-
t(on o'f,plans and specfffcafioos. F�otion carriad unanimously.
Case No.,78-31, Specia! Use Permft to Renovate Johanna Elementary
Sc�oB 4or Apartment Complex for Elderly - Presby4arlan Homes
tSutton Piace)
Ga%a� ens a, E� Reed, Curtis Fritzie and Robert Ackerma�n were
present to answer quesfiions and concerns ot Councii re Phase I of
the proposed Sutton Piace ranova�ion of Lake Johanna Elemerttary
School.
Drawi�gs depict{ny exEsting conditions, the ovarail site pla�
findfcat(ng adJacent tats), proposed landscapingo school remode0-
I�g and signage were presented. Fenstad reported that e rough
draft, of the am�nded drawtngs beina presented toniqht, was re-
viewed by Planner PAffl�r.
dn dfscusslon, concarn vas expressed re +vhat happsned to the In-
#ergenerational plans previously doscribad. Bt was explainad
that it was not the tn�ent of Presbyterian Homes to supervise an
Ini�argenerattona8 program; prapose to maintain a HiOd tlower
garden area for fhe enjoyment ot residents a6�d vlsttors (children
and adults); pFopose a ccmmunity room in Sutton P�ace buildtng,
but its use has not been developed to date; enclosed walk-throughs
are proposed be4ween ttie proposed resfdenttal Yownhouse str�c-
t�res on the site; residents do not want to be segregated -
strongly desfre to have chi9dren, as well as adut4s, vtsifi the
site; place s4rong emphasis o� intergenerational actfvities -
currently provido fishing permlts and encourege children°s pro-
grams at the home.
!n revtew of the site plan proposoB for the expanded site, concern
was expressed re the mass(ve aper�m�nt huildings proposed, rather
than the prevfousiy described cottage-iype residences. Ackermann
explainad fihat th� proposed two-story strucfiures are exactfy as
were envlstoned on the lower sifie - only changes ars the connec-
�tions between bulld7rags.
. 9fi xas �oted by Counci9 thai- it is concs rned about the impact on
neEghboring properties when the site ts fuily daveloped; intends
to cons(der the schooi renovation i'onight, bu� feels it was
�vortiHhlE� to ask that a long-ranq� p�an be presented; not in a
' posfPion to accept or reject the proposal tonight.
�It91ar not�d that intensity mtll probabiy be tha Cii'y's primafy
concern; toiaB site use as proposed is more intense and insti?u-
tionai ln appearance i�han w�s origlnally described; initial
proposa9 was described as rc�lativeEy spread-out; pians .as
present�d are very surprfsing; suggasted strong need for nelghborhood
input. Bfi aas noi�ed by Counci8 that neighborhood reactfon has,
in the past, been very negal'Ive fio apartmen7 conaepts relativ�
to vfsua0 impact on the neic�hborhood.
Jn further discussion, it aas noted that it is probabfy
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Minut�s of Regute�r Council Meeting
Page three
Novembel- 27, 197$
appropriate for Counc9i to consider the proposed butiding renova-
tion; shou�d noten on �the site plan, the portion of the site
included in Phaso I of the developmeot. Crtchton noted that he
has received negative publfc comments relative to the massive
gertatric building; won't 9et that occur again. Winge�t satd he
wlll probab9y vote agalnst the Phase 1 proposal because of the
proposed ovsr-tiutlt, oNer-dense development of the ba0ance of the
sPte; does not want to ses thts.
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Fe�stad explafned that it was not their iptent to show Phasa 2
deve9opm�nt, wh(ch was done in a two-week period; we naed to
renovate the school now; Phase 2 is conceptual; we aill sariously
fiake Counc0l's concerns tnto consideratlon. �
Ha�son asked for informai remctio� to double bungalows, wh[ch he
suggested mfght be mo re favorable than the proposed massive town-
house concept.
Mr. FrEtzEe expiained that the plan for Phase 2 Ts the result
of provfding something to the archttect; tried Yo provide green
area and to provide for the anticipated needs at the restdents
on this stte.
Ackermann sa6d he is trying to fleld the buildfng desl�res and ac-
commodate Iarge graen areas whtch wfll present a pieasing density
for the nelghborhood.
Crtchton referred to the elevatfons of the proposed schoal build-
Ing renovatlon; suggested that the proposed use of fihe bullding
makes sense; sees no value in not a9lowing the renovation to take
paace.
' Woodburn concurred w(th Phase t, as detalled; �oted that he
concurs vrtth the negative comments expressed re the Phase 2
cept. Woodburn explained that, If any motlon Is pas5ed ior
ap.proval, the deveBaper is "1ocked into" what ts dete(led on
plans presented; any change w101 need approv.aB.
slso
con-
t-he
Crlchton moved that Cou�cit approve a Speclal Use Permit for
�Phase Y contructtan based on the documents submitted� and as they
are modlfled by blueprint page V fdated II-27-789 and the stgn
as detailed on page 4 f91-27�78). Approval is contingent upon
compfetion of pandscapdng on west arod south sides of buildfng
prtor to occupancy and postfng of the approprtate landscape bond.
Motion was seconded by Nanson.
Harson moved that the motlon be amended to Include the contin_qency
that appropria�Pe road easemen4 documents be executed,, providtng
tor conttnued use of i-h� existing driveways. and s4reef relative
to the right-of�wsy of Shorewood Drive.
Fenstad explaf�ed iha�P i•he rosd easemant in question is on the
Presbytertan Homes property to the ��, not a part of the Sut'Fon
Place stte. -
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Woodburn rul9d that the suggestto� for amendment is fn order
because it r�quirAs some4htng that rela�es to the Speclai Use
P�rmit, and fs in the cc�ntrol of the epplicant.
Crichton sugges4ad, betEuse ot the tim� efement which may be In-
volved, the road easement mtght Detter be resolved witfi Phase 2,
and �he Ainended Spec6a9 Use Permit; suggested thaf the Amended
Speciai Use Permit include some tfine pariod for resolutlon of ihe
road easement. Crlchton also expr�ssed concern re fhe �eed tor a
plme period in whtch approva6 of parking plans on the Sutton Place
slte be reGuEred; suggested that if Phase 2 ts ten years off,
Clfy and App�Ican4 may have to contend with unsuitabYe parking
arran�ements and tr�complete landscapdng (east af buflding) for
those years; suggested that 14 PAese 2 fs not resoived wtthin �
certatn time period, parktng and landseaping, east and south of
bufldtng, be reso9ved for the Sutton Place buliding.
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Mfnutes of Reg��lar Council MeEtfng Nov2mber,27o I9�8
?age four .
Aftar dlscussion of the proposed road.easement ame�dment, Council
concurred that it is the infient of Council to make the resolution
of �he road easement a continqenCy ot the Amended Special Use
?e rmit for Phage 2.
'�'oodburn a"�ir���.�1��� the motion i+ tnclude the contingency
that there will be no changes in the grade of land in Phase 1.
Cr(chton and Hanson accopted the amendment. Motion carrted
(Crichton, Hanson, Woodburn voting in favor of the motion; Wingert
voting in oppos(tion).
t to Recons�der °`No Parktnn" on East Porti
nvenua - rranK rreecs, rrory �nee� r�c�a�
Mr. Freels rsferred Council to his Ietter of i1-21-78, and at-
tached sketch; asked Councfl°s reconsideration of the "No Parking"
on Connelfy Avenue, at least on one side of street in front of
�roto Sheet Metal; explained that the street widening eltminated
six ot their parking spaces whtch are needed for customer parkfng.
After dtscuss(on, Wingerfi movad� seconded by Hanson, that Councfl
modify the �arking on the west of Connelly Avenue feast) to per-
mit parking, excepfi at the Flaherty's access drive; suDJect to
detal0ed dssig� by the City Engineer.
Hanso� moved to amend the motion to 1(mTt parkinq to two hours.
Amendment was not accepted because the Ywo-hour 9lmitation wouid
be diffieult to enforce.
Motlon csrried (Wfngert, Hanson, Woodburn vqting in favor of the
motlon; Crichfon voting in opposition).
Freels asked if Council has ptans tor street Iights In 'the Connelly
Avenue area; repor�ed thai� they have been subjectad to extenstve
vandaltsm recee�fly. Councfi advised that street Iiqhts are not
eurrenYly pro��sed. Freels said he woued pursue his own exterior
lighting of i•ho Proto 5heet P^e'Fa1 property.
REPORT OF VILLAGE ENG9NEER DONALD CHRISTOFFERSEN
Resolution No. 78-77 Orderi�q W nrldqe 9m rovement No. 78-6
Christoffersen reported fhat a 100 petition has been received
from the property ownere, requesting construction of the Wynridqe
streets and utiBitles by the City.
Winger-t moved, seconded by Hanson, that Cou�ct9 adopt Resolution
No. 78--77, Reso�u�Fion Ordering 9mprovemenfi No. 78-6 and authoriz-
in,q preparation of P1ans and Specifications. Motion carried
unanimous9y.
(ChrIsfioffersen said he proposes to open bids in the Spring;
possibly aTll combirre Karth Lake EsYates West wtth Wynridqs).
Pr000sed Resolution re Ffvs Year
Proaram -
Chrtstotf6rsen reforred Councii to sampie resolutlon attached #o
letter from State Director to Engineers. �Christo#iersen reviewed
Grey Fox Road and HamlT�e Avenue proposed five year constructlon
costs.
After discussion, Crichton moved, seconded by Nanson, that Coun-
ci! adopt Rasolution No. 78-79, Resotution Deslgnating ConsYruction
Programs for State Aid Roads in Arden tiilis. Motion carried
unanimously.
Cterk Adminfstrator was reques�ted to prepare Resolution and exe-
cute on behalf af the City.
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Minutes of Re�ular Councit Meeting Movember 27, 1978
Page five
Litt Statlon �iqhtninq Strike Recommendafiion
Chrtsfoffersen recommended that Council accept refmbu�sement ot
lift Station 9ightnfng strike costs ot 5288.01 from Aqustrol;
Clfy to subsequen¢ly rc�imburse its insurance company.
Council concurred with the Engineer's recommendatioo, and Enginear
Christotfiersen advised ha would nofity Aquatroi of Councfl's
action.
Construction Trailar - County Road E and Old Niqhway VO
Crichton requesfied that Councll reconsider permitting the con-
• struction trailer to remain on the Chafiham site indefinitely if
the contractor has completed his work on that project; sug,qested
It be movad to a more inconspicuous locatlon.
Christoffersen reported that the construction traiter can be
abandoned by his inspectors if desired; Ctty inspectors could
use Village offices during water project construcfion In the north
area; Contraci�or can be re4uested i-o move the trailer trom the
sita.
Chrtsfioffersen �� ��e removal of the trai ler
from the County Roed E-2, Highway 00 site.
REPORT OF V9LLAGE TREASURER DONALD LAMB
lnvestments
II-20-78, EY76o4b3.89 at 9.5� for one month.
Hanson moved, secortded by Wingert, thai• Councii ratify Treasurer's
Investment. Pofotion carried unanimously.
OTNER BUSiNESS
Northwestern Bank Landscaaing
Wingert reported he had met with Mr. Klus re substttutions of
planting materials. Klus will review matter, said he'd spent
SI,000 more than he had anticipatgd on plantings.
Community Service Officer Schedule -
Counci� reviewed CSO Perry's activity reports for past months.
Counctl concurred that, fn additton To dog patroliing, Mr. Perry
calE on new residents advising them of City regulattons re
dogs, snowbirds, snowmobiles, etc; gfve them Ctty Directory Card,
Yoter R�gistration forms, etc. Hanson moved, seconded by Wingert�
that Perry continue to work twenty hours per week fior balance
of 1978. A7otion carrted unanimously.
Parks and Recreation Winter Proqram
Crichton reported that new programs pianned for this afn�ter are
FamTly �Aovies, Opsn Gym Play and Children's Theater; fees to b�
cherged will cover costs of programs. Crtchton moved, seeonded
by Hanson, that Counci! approve #he Mlinter Frogram as out{tned.
. Motion carrled unanimously.
Annual Institute of Buildina Offitcials
Wingerf movadt saconded by Hanson, thaf Counctl approve SquTre's
ati-endance at Annual institute as �utiined in Squire's memo of
November 22. Motion carrled unanimousiy.
REPOR7 OF CLERK ADMiNiSTRATOR CHARLOTTE MCNIESH
Council Meetinq Scheduie
W(ngert moved, seconded by Nanson, that Councii schedute foilowing
mestings:
Dacember 89 and 26, 7:30 p.m.
January 2, 7:30 p.m.
Motian carried unanimously.
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44inufies of Regular Counci� P�eeti�n NOvembar 27, t978
Page sfx
Salary Correction - Davld Winkel
Hanson moved, seconded by Wingert, that Council approve an tncrease
of 60¢ per hour far David WJnkef, �ffectfve October 11, 1978.
Motlon carrfed urtanimousiy. Councii noted that unfortunataly it .
was given fncorrect tnfarmatioh in the prior Buckley memo.
Claims and PayroB!
kifngert moved, saconded by Crtchton, that Councii approve claims
z,s amended and payrol9 as submitted. Motion carried unanimousBy
Gosts of Tratl pevelopment
Crichfon reviewed Cfiatham Trai! development befng completed by
Park Department. CounciG concurred that development costs for
• park sites and trails should be charged to the Park FunG rather than
Generai Fund.
Russian OYive Plantinqs � 8nqerson Park
Council noted that deletton of the RussFen Oliva planttngs at
south bo�ndary of 9ngerson Park had not been approved by the
Council.
Peti$ion - Lakeshore P9ace Plowfna
McNiesh reported that Johansen pians to make only one plow sut
the side of street where residences ara located; thls should
minTmize srtow ridges at dr6veways - most of the snox wouBd be
opposite sida of street. Johansen wttl contact pei�itioners re
proposed solution.
on
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Matro Clean Air Comml4fee
Council concurrsd tha? Winge�t aould serve as liaison.
Letter re Drainaqe ProbBem - 3564 No Snellinq
Councit revtewed copy of letter to larry Squires concerninq ardi�
nartce regulations on aBtering drainage and enforcement. Council
wants to see Squires' responss prfor to next meetioq.
Tra(9 UeveCopment Grant
Crichton reporS��d that Buckley vai01 attend meeting on November 30.
Adjournmeni-
Wtngert mov�d, second�d by Hanson, th�t meeting �djourn at 12:35 a.m.
Motion carried unanimousdy.
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Chariqtte McNtesh
CEerk Admfnistrator
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Next RaQular Councll Meei•inq
Decem4er B1, 1978 - 7:30 p.m. Village Nall
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Extract of Minutes of Meeting
of City Council
City of Arden Hills
Ramsey County, Minnesota
November 27, 1978
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, a regular meeting
of the City Council of the City of Arden Aills, Minnesota, was
held in the City Hall in said City on Monday, the 27th day of
November, 1978, at 8:00 o'clock p. m.
The followinq members were present: Acting Mayor Woodburn
and Councilmen Crichton, Hanson, and Wingert; and the following
was absent: Mayor Crepeau
Also present were: Charlotte McNiesh, City Clerk Admini-
strator; Don Lamb, City Treasurer; Don Christof£ersen, City
consulting engineer; and Peter S. Popovich, City Bond Consultant.
The City Clerk Administrator presented an affidavit showing
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publication of notice of hearing on proposed Improvement No.
SS-W-P-ST-78-3 in accordance with the resolution adopted
October 30, 1978, which affidavit was examined and found to be
satisfactory and was directed to be filed by the Clerk Admini-
strator. The City Clerk Administrator also exhibited a Cer-
tificate of Mailing Notice of Hearing to all affected property
owners, which certificate was examined and found to be satis-
factory and was directed to be filed by the Clerk Administrator.
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All persons present were then afforded opportunity to be
hear d, and the names and addresses of the persons appearing and
heard by the Council, and the substance of the views presented
by them were as follows:
� MR. DON
for propose
indicated o
this is the
and this is
This is the
CHRISTOFFERSEN, city consulting engineer: This is
d Improvement 78-3, Karth Lake Estates West. As
n the screen - the boundaries of Karth Lake Estates West -
southerly line, this is Amb1e Road in this vicinity,
the extension of Nursery Hill Road as constructed today.
north line of Karth Lake Estates West, and the south
line. The west line is here, and the east line is Karth Lake.
The streets proposed in this development extend from the
existing street at this point to a semi-cul-de-sac runninq
westerly to a cul-de-sac, and another street going southerly to
Amble Road. The street is proposed to be 34 feet in width,
designed for less than 400 vehicles per day, 7-ton load street,
will have bituminous surfacing and concrete curb and gutter.
The sanitary sewer proposed to serve the development would
be constructed (inaudible) a manhole on the westerly portion of
the cul-de-sac, running easterly to another manhole, and southerly
to the sanitary sewer. Also, a(inaudible) would be constructed
from a road here to intercept this sanitary sewer. Sanitary sewer
will serve the abutting lots.
The watermain proposed will connect to the existinq water-
main at this point, follow generally on the north side of the
street, and terminate at this point. Another stretch of watermain
would loop the Nursery (inaudible) and connect to the Amble system
and-connect at Amble Road. •
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Storm drainage improvements are as shown on the southerly portion
of the street generally, draining to a detention basin and outward
to an existing storm sewer and on to Karth Lake. You will note
that we have provided inlet points for the basins, or the swampy
areas to the south, as an assurance that the basins will not be
overflowed and flood the newly constructed property. It is not
the intent of these outlets to drain the ponding areas, but to keep
them at a normal level. Also, we have one constructed in this
position. Storm sewers are located in this position. (Inaudible) •
and storm sewer running to this point and draining back to the
detention basin, and one from this point over, and also into the
detention basin, and then out into Karth Lake.
• We find that this project is a feasi.ble undertaking, and
recommend it be constructed as proposed.
Mr. Popovich will cover the financing. I might add - on the
financing portion of it - we have utilized a lot basis, and for
the worst condition, we have assumed there were 17 lots that could •
be assessed. As the Council is well aware, you have flexibility
in assessing, and it may be discussed at this time, but for our
feasibility study we used 17 1ots. There may be more.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: Mr. Popovich, will you eXplain the
• methods and meaning of possible financing.
MR. PETER S. POPOVICH, city bond consultant: THe total
published cost of this project has been rounded off to $200,000
and, of course, based on a per lot charge. As you know from the
plat, there are some 20 lots on the drawing. Mr. Christoffersen
feels if you eliminate Lots 1, 2 and 5- 1 and 2 are on the north
part and 5 is where the pond is - then that would be some 17
remaining lots, and dividing that by $200,000 wi11 come to
$11,765 per lot. On the other hand, if you extend the project from
the southern portion of Karth Lake Estates down toward Amble
Road, or old vacated Highway 51, there's a thought there would be
two additional lots that could be assessed because of benefits
they'd receive there because of the road being extended. That
would give a total of 19 lots and the approximate cost per lot
would be $10,526, or roughly $1200 per lot less going from 17 to
19 lots. It`s proposed this be 100� assessed and be spread over a
20 year period with an 8$ carrying charge and a right of prepayment
as has been the customary policy of the city.
I think the big question is to determine the extension of the
street to the south and whether there would be two additional lots
and the assessment of those besides the viability of 1, 2 and 5.
5 is guite obvious. There may be a question as to 1 or 2 and
maybe Don can address himself to that.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: Mrs. McNiesh,•any writ ten comments?
T1RS. MCNIESH: There are none.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: We will open the hearing now to
questions. I will start first with questions from the Council
and comments from those who may be interested.
MR. POPOVICH: I should point out one factor. The original
mat�r was 100� petitioned for and referred to the engineer, and
it was the additional land to the south that required the public
hearing. If it had stopped, you could have ordered the improve-
ment without a public hearing so I assume the people that petitioned
we have received nothing that they have retracted any of those
petitions - so that's a proper assumgtion for you to make and
• we should address ourselves to that area to the south as to how
those property owners feel.
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MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: There's one other thing I'd like to
clarify. There's a lot abutting the proposed street on this side.
The one on the other side I believe is tax delinquent, but the
first one may or may not be added in the per unit charges.
They're getting sanitary sewer and water from Amble, but may
receive a benefit from this portion of the street. Also, the
reason that I deleted Lots 1 and 2 from the total assessment is
because this configuration is slightly different from what was
platted in the Karth Lake Estates, and I believe they're
replatting and changing the configuration of the lots. There were
services there under the Karth Lake Estates Improvement and that's
why they were deleted in this one.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: You mean this could be assessed -
the southernmost lot?
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: This would be an option up to the Council
whether they would like to apply an assessment or feel these
people receive a benefit from the street.
ACTING MAYOR GVOdDBURN: I'll have the Council make their
comments or ask questions.
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: I have four questions of Mr. Popovich.
In the costs that are estimated, is the cost of acquirinq the land
for that road included? I realize there's a tax forfeited land
at the bottom.
MR. POPOVICH: Wetnok Don's figures and rounded them off.
2dR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: There are contingencies to allow for
normal (inaudible) so it should be covered.
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: Mr. Christoffersen, One more question
which deals with the whole area. There are two ponds -"C" and "F"
that would be filled. '
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: Yes.
COUNCILMAN
one or possibly
drainage system
reason?
CRICHTON: I seem to recall in the last year or so,
two ponds just south of Amble Road in the same
that you felt should not be filled. Is there some
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: They're also tied in with this network
of drainage. I can show you a better picture.
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: These can be filled without tampering
with the drainage system. Why couldn't those?
• MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: At the time we were discussing those
we didn't have an outlet for this other area. It's possible they
could be filled provided adequate drainage be included.
4
•
Cl
COUNCILMAN HANSON: I'd like to have the engineer refresh
my memory as to why we decided to extend that connecting road �
south from Nursery Hill.
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: Might I ask Mr. Miller to explain
that because he was involved in all of the Planning Commission's
work and I was not. 2 did not attend those meetings. Perhaps Mr.
Miller could provide a better answer than I.
• MR. ORLYN MILLER, Wehrman, Chapman Associates, City Planners:
There were basically three options expressed at the tme of the
first proposal - and maybe Don might want to help me with this.
(Showing diagrams) In terms of lot layout, this is basically
the same with some modification. The concern is Nursery Hill
Lane extends to Hamline on the far left and it would create a cul-de-
sac of approximately 1700 feet. The Ordinance limits the extent
of the length of a cul-de-sac to 500 feet (inaudible) 18 lots are
served, in which case it could be somewhat longer. In this case
it's substantially more than 18 lots. I believe something of that
nature is already served by Nursery Hill Lane. There was con-
cern expressed by ourselves and by the Planning Commission that we
search out a way to resolve the circulation problem (inaudible)
that length of cul-depsac. Three different basic options were
open. One is to accept - by waiving that requirement at the time
of planning - to accept a longer cul-de-sac. Another is to
plainly deny any development in which the city gets in somewhat
of a vulnerable position in that this area is (inaudible)
landlocked by past decisions and we felt we should seek out some
way to provide for development for the benefit of the developer
as well as the city, and the third option was to seek some way to
provide a loop system to Hamline or Amble Road, so we did look at a
variety of ways.
Obviously, as you can see on the left Side of that, the
existing homes and the spacing is such that it would require taking
of the developed lands, lots that are already developed. We had to
seek out other ways, trying to determine where some of the openings
might be.
There was, at one time, some sort of easement here that showed
up on the plat. We did clarify that it wasn't as public as we
thought at the time we did these studies. That there is some
kind of access easement back here but not a platted street, but we
did look at the possibility of extending over there - providing •
access to Amble Road at the end (inaudible) existing home con-
struction, there is a home on this lot at this time and the
narrowness of the area just made that somewhat infeasible.
This configuration simply shows how the Amble property which
• gets landlocked in the process of creating a road (inaudible)
however, if we put it here we still had this landlocked property
here that could not be subdivided efficiently to get access in that
manner.
5
�
This way we were just looking at (inaudible) might
provide some access for some additional lots that way. It
certainly did not reflect the best road layout (inaudible). We
would gain nothing relative to the cul-de-sac lane. In fact, it
would be greater, but if this were cut off at this point we would
have gained access to Amble property for potential future develop-
ment which would have been a more desirable (inaudible) the two
owners combined in a plat to resolve the entire problem in the
area. We encouraged them to do that, but have no power to force
that situation.
We then looked at some of the options of carrying through
and all we ended up with in the final analysis was just a hybrid of
this (inaudible)access agreement here that could apply to a third
lot. We were just studying some (inaudible) al ignments to develop
which would reflect the best circulation. It was our intention
to design a system that would not encourage traffic, but provide
another outlet. Those two are basically the same with minor
variations, and yet another would have, in this manner, served the
Amble property with the potential of crea�nq four lots instead of
three by bringing the right-of-way down so it could be expanded
into this property, or constructing the cul-de-sac on this, but
providing by land trading something that would have been required
that both owners enter into the plat at this time. Of course,
that didn't happen so the final we ended up with is what you were
looking at first.
Basically, to reiterate the three options, to accept the
long cul-de-sac, which I pointed out is not the only one like it
in the city although it's not in a situation where we have an
abundance of those nor should we - there's one on Oak Avenue
that's serving a similar amount of lots, somewhat less, but over 18.
There are other longer cul-de-sacs beyond 500 feet, but not too
many of them serve beyond the 18 units. That being one option.
The second is to just not.allow it to develop until a
variety of property owners could get something together, and the
third (inaudible) to force a connection somewhere. This seemed
to be the most loqical.
COUNCILPiAN CRICHTON: I think Oak Avenue was installed before
the (inaudiblei.
�
MR. MILLER: That could be.
•
COUNCILMAN HANSON: One other comment. These alternatives �
that have been presented on the slides, none of which showed
Nursery Hill Court ever going directly out to Amble?
MR. MILLER: No. No, because we eliminated that option because
of the developed lots and we pursued this other - first the one
far on the right to the end of Asnble Road because we thought
there might be part of a right-of-way there, and when we found out not,
then we pursued this route because there was the tax delinquent
�
property which made that available for a good part of the extra
right-of-way needed and so we had only one other property owner �
to deal with in this case, and it was not developed property.
That was a key factor, that it was not developed.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: The meeting is now open for comments.
• If you have any comments or questions, could you rise, state your
name and address.
MR. ARTHUR FREICHELS, 1292 Nursery Hill Lane: Are the lots
there the only ones to be assessed for the improvements?
Because I live on Nursery Hill Lane and I do have a letter.
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: The letiers that were sent out to people
on Nursery Hill Lane were for informational purposes, and I doubt
they would be assessed for this improvement.
MR. POPOVICH: The legal description was broader, and the
notice went out to more people than the existing lots that we
have been discussing. It's broad enough and, as you know, when
you order an improvement if there were some benefit to these other
people then obviously you could consider the assessment, and that's
one reason why they received the notice. On the other hand, there
was no intention in our presentation as we saw it, and as the
engineer saw it, to assess anybody other than the particular lots
we have addressed ourselves to.
MR. CHARLES ANBLE, 1211 Amble Road: Eirst of all, I would like to
straighten out the record. Somehow or another I was construed
as saying - making some remark to the effect that people on
Nursery Lane were objecting to this entry on Amble Road. I did
not say that and I did not mean that. I appreciate all the effort
that.was put into this thing by the engineers here, but somehow
I feel that this strip of land - 2 would like to have the second
slide that you have up there. This particular strip of land in
here is a wooded section that I feel is being abused. This road -
proposed road that you have going through here will reduce this
from a five-lot plot to a three-lot plot which is a considerable
loss, plus the fact you're landlocking it, or arranging it in such a
way to also reduce its value some more, plus the fact we're going
to get some more assessments. We've been burned with assessments
to the point where we can't stand any more. There are a number
of people in our community who are out of their element in talking •
about these things and all they do is get hung with these assess-
ments. I further feel - and I'm not talking about Nursery Lane -
I further feel Amble Road has enjoyed the privacy of a dead-end road
for some time and I just don't feel that a group of people should
• come out and design something like this and deadlock or phony
up something to make a pleasant thing for themselves and to
hell with you, and come out on Amble Road without some kind of
round-table discussion before all this expense is brought about with
the engineers of our village, so Z object to the whole thing.
7
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: Have there been any discussions
of this in the Planning Commi.ssion.
MRS. DOROTHY ZEHM, Deputy Clerk: We have had a public •
hearing and have had comments from the residents - probably the
same people that are here tonight.
MR. MILLER: This was discussed at several Planning
• Commission meetings.
MR. ARTHUR ERICKSON, 1297 Nursery Hill Lane: I do,in a
certain respect, go along with Ns. Amble and I'm sorry his property
is involved, but the people on Nursery Hill Lane (inaudible)
the traffic congestion on Hamline with a school bus stop plus
the Pemtom town houses directly south of us, we would like -
2'm speakinq for myself and four other neighbors - would like at
least one other exit on this Nursery Hill Court on to Amble
Road. Not necessarily Hamline because that would put four
exits on Hamline within 200 yards of each other and i feel that
would be a bad safety factor, but with respect to Mr. Amble,
I'm sorry for him and I can see his point of view, but I'm sure
he can see our point of view for the traffic congestion on
Hamline and Nursery Hill Lane. We would like to see another exit
on to Amble Road. I also talked to the Fire Chief toniqht. 2'm a
member of the Fire Department, and it would be beneficial for
the Fire Department to have more than one entry into this Nursery
Hill Court. We realizel�at we can't influence your decision, but
this is our feeling that we would like another exit on Nursery
Hill Court.
MR. JEROME WEAVER, 1330 Anble Road: There's a lot of congestion.
The school bus stops there and I don't buy that argument and 2
don't see why an entrance on Hamline would benefit because I think
there's a lot of traffic on Amble. Al1 the kids stand across
the street. If nothing else, the traffic should be slowed down
with all the kids there. Another thing - I know one woman in
particular who lives on Lot 14 and you mentioned people there might
be assessed in the future. To me that's a good way of getting
around (inaudible) all of a sudden you got that assessment in the
future. I assume that it could be in the future some people could
be assessed if it benefits them. Maybe that's a way to find
out by splitting the costs. Mr. Amble, I know, has tried to keep
thinqs as rustic as possible. He left the woods and a lot of
things have been filled in. The swamp has been filled in. My •
brother and I own a swamp across Amble Road and we were told if we
wanted to put some fill in they said it was not possible and now I
hear it may be possible. 2 don't know - sometimes I get a little
disgusted. It sounds like a big development talks and somebody
else who wants to fill one lot he can't do a thing, but all of a
• sudden it changes and I don't understand the picture now, but I
guess I don't see why the road couldn't go out to Hamline Avenue.
I assume the building had started on the end there on Lots 8 and
10 (inaudible) in the cul-de-sac.
�
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: There are existing houses on Hamline.
l_ J
�,
�
MR. WEAVER: I thought the road could have been put through
to Aamline there. I don't see why nofi.
FROM THE AUDIENCE: Pardon me - there are two houses there.
MR. WEAVER: But as far as the traffic on Nursery Hill Lane,
there's plenty on Amble Road and I don't think it's fair to
Mr. Amble to be cutting through Mr. Amble's property either.
It's too bad there isn't another way to solve it. I'm with Mr.
Amb1e 100$ on that. I just can't see it.
AIR. RICHARD PEDERSON, 1224 Amble Road: They did this to
me about a month ago. Hill is developing the piece south of ine
and he was proposing a cul-de-sac and he wanted to come down through
my orchard. They just went to the Planning Commission and said
let's drive it here - he's a little guy and 2'm putting in a
$2 million development - the hell with his land. They turned it
around for me. I had a little help from Pir. Crichton there, but
it's the little guy that gets stuck, and it's the Planning Cotmnission
doesn't come to you. They don't call you in and say, rather
than an easement or condemnation can we get together and buy your
property. They just plow riqht ahead and do it and it gets dis-
gusting at times. You drive (inaudible) to Amble Road. What
about Amble Road out to Hamline? Will it be up-graded with more
assessments. That can't handle 400 a day. Have the engineers
given consideration (inaudible)
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: 40D traffic is a minimal construction
to be designed on residential streets of Arden Hills and does
not necessarily (inaudible) the traffic flow here.
MR. RICHARD PEDERSON; Have you seen Amble Road? A few yeaYs
ago when the sewer was put in in the fall, we agreed to the bond
issue because they were not going to put water in. There were
no plans for water on Amble Road. The next spring they came in
and chewed up the road they put in the fall before.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: 17 lots possibly we're talking about.
hiR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: (inaudible} eight trips would be
very conservative.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: Driveway per resident.
•
MR. MILLER: The traffic assignment is using 8 or 9 per
dwelling. I would agree with Mr. Christoffersen that's fairly
high but th� are projecting on that basis and I have verified
that several times.
E
MR. PEDERSON: You were talking about 17 lots being
assessed the $200,000 and you said there's a possibility of more.
Who owns the other two from 17 to 19?
• MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: 2 don't know the owners - I believe
Mr. Amble owns these. There are 20 lots, and subtracting this,
this and this makes 17 - two more full assessment meaning sewer,
watermain and street would be these two, and this one potential
for street only.
I�R. PEDERSON: Who owns those?
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: I believe Mr. Amble owns these.
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: The Council has to decide who gets
assessed and they're sayinq the other two affecting Mr. Amble
might be considered, and the c�er one might be considered - just
giving us the full set of information.
ACTING MAYOR �QOODBURN: Any further comments? Comments of the
Council, or questions?
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: Mr. Christoffersen - or Mr. Miller,
if we assumed this was the best way of enabling the development
with the area to be developed, but chose not to extend the north-
��' south leg of Amble until such time as say Mr. Amble's property was
developed, what would be the ramifications of just proceeding to
install the east-west part at this time?
,, biR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: I guess I would recommend, as long as
, you're constructing, to at least get it down to this point
primarily because it would be difficult then to go back in and
construct this piece and actually assess it against the develop-
ment that's occurring at this time. ,
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: Even if you took it to the southern
boundary of this property it-would mean until the other area is
developed there would be no other access to Nursery Hi11 Court.
�
MR. MILLER: I would point out if that were the direction
taken that the tax forfeit land should also be reserved, otherwise
you have that problem in the future, so if that would be the
option taken,which we had discussed - determined it was better for
resolution of the entire problem to build it at this time - but
that portion of the right-of-way should be reserved £or the future
and that wouZd leave only the Amble Lane and that would be the
only missing portion.
COUNCILMAN WINGERT: Are you responding to just the road now,
because 2 suppose the utilities have to go through there.
MR. Cf3RISTOFFERSEN: I would assume that the storm drainaqe -
we would have to provide some kind of outlet to this pond. The
sanitary sewer could dead-end at that point and the watermain to
dead-end, but I point out to you you're ending up with a watermain
lQ
starting on Hamline and feeding this area and dead-ending.
�
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: So Amble Road is going to dead-end
for some ti.me.
MR. ARTHUR ERICKSON: I was the first one in on Nursery
Hill Lane and 2 watched that road go in and the utilities go in
(inaudible) alongside of Mr. Tschida, and 2'm asking Mr.
Christoffersen - I'm a little concerned. I was under the im-
pression that when the utilities went on Nursery Hill Lane, the
dimensions were just to serve the existing lots and we were told
at the time they wouldn't be able to handle any additional homes.
I don't know - maybe I misconstrued the whole thing, but they
weren't large mains or pipes that went in (inaudible) to handle
the volume of homes you're considering, are you actually hooking
on to Nursery Hill or the units that came in behind us from the
other Karth Lake (inaudible)
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: The units that came in behind you
are are sanitary sewer - I think you're mistaking the sanitary
sewer placed down at the end of Nursery Hill Lane - the eleva-
tion was such that (inaudible) which occurred under the Karth
Lake development. We needed a lift station which was con-
structed at the intersection of Highway 96 and Lexinqton approxi-
mately, and that force main comes back to Hamline so we could lower
the sanitary sewer in this area here and provide sanitary sewer
service to all of these areas. I do not particularly cherish the
thought of a long deaci-end water main. Six inch is an ample
size to serve several homes (inaudible) several in Arden Hills
(inaudible) 11 homes would be out of water, but if there were a
break and this were not looped, there's a possibility of a great
many more to be out of water.
MR. ERICKSON: Or if you had a house fire on Lot 1 and
two pumpers hooked up, we could'flush everybody's toilet for them.
MR. CHRI5TOFFERSEN: If you were to hook up to this hydrant
and pump from this point, if it was a11 on a dead-end it would
make a difference. You're right, it`s less than if we had a
loop down £rom Amble. If we had that, we have a feed from two
directions. And I'm trying to encourage looping, and I think
the Council is trying to encourage looping of most of the water
system in the city.
FROM THE AUDIENCE: With this construction, would Nursery
• Hill have to put up again with the heavy equipment going up and
down the street for two years? That's the only way to get in.
They told us last year it wasn't going to (inaudible), but I
noticed it there the next morning.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: This would have to be the last of
it, I think.
11
•
MR. MARCEL EIBENSTEINER, 1364 Rockstone Lane, New Brighton:
I don't have a complete solution, but let's say we extend that
street to the south property line and put up a barricade and
work out an easement so we extend a storm sewer and sanitary sewer
with just an easement, is that a possibility? Couldn't it be
worked out on easements and barricade tfie road and when we have
too much traffic we extend the road down Amble?
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: That's more acceptable than dead-ending
at this point.
COUNCILMAN AANSON: I'd like Don to react to that question
about the quality of Amble Road handling traffic.
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: I can vaguely recall when watermain was
placed in Amble Road and I questioned whether it was under the
standard of construction of today for a permanent street. I guess I
can't really answer whether it's a 5-ton or 3-ton load. Granted,
it will receive more traffic. Generally the traffic that's really
hard traffic on a street such as Amble Road is truck traf£ic,
and that's true on any street and you wi11 find break-up occurring
or more likely to occur on Hamline because there's a lot of truck
traffic on Aamline and very little truck traffic on a residential
street. There is some, but compared to something like Hamline
it's insignificant.
MR. ARTHUR ERICKSON: I asked this question last year and I
will ask it again. With the volume of traffic, the heavy equip-
ment and cars that are going to be going on Nursery Hill Lane to
^ put in this development, and the development gets put in and all
o£ a sudden Nursery Hill Lane is developed azd the village
engineer says it has to be resurfaced, are the home owners that
are there now going to have to foot the bill again after we have
already built the road once, or is there a possibility of the
contractor having to resurface •the road and put up a bond for it?
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: I'm not certain of the village policy. I
can't recall on reconstruction of streets. I believe - is it a
ten or twenty year period?
AfRS. MC NIESH: Streets are usually on a ten year period -
streets only. Street, sewer and water combination has been 20
years, but just a street improvement, those have generally been
spread over a ten year period.
• ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: In the i.mmediate future is Nursery
Hill going to have to be done again completely from scratch?
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: That's a difficult question.
12
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: If you ever had to re-do it.
PiR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: I assume if it would be a 20-year
time there would be another assessment - after a reasonable
• period of time after it was constructed. I think this is a
matter of Council decision whether streets should be assessed
or not assessed. The village has a regular maintenance pro-
gram on streets - I believe it's every four years they patch
and sealcoat, and that certainly is not assessed against the
abutting property owners and it would be a matter of how bad
the street would break up. I question whether or not Nursery
Hill, with the amount of construction you might see going in
would break up substantially because it's a good designed
7-ton street and it would take a lot of traffic, and I mean
heavy traffic.
MR. ERICKSON: We've had it.
DiR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: Have you noticed any breakup on the
street?
l�R. ERICKSON: Little cracks here and there - not big
chunks.
- MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: The last time.I drove through I didn't
notice it.
D�R. ERICKSON: There's one spot by Compton which has settled
six or eight inches along the curbline along with some other
driveways that have been backed into by heavy equipment because they
couldn't turn around on the end. Mr. Schultz's concrete driveway
has been busted up on the end because the man couldn't turn
around in the mud so he backed up his bulldozer and busted it,
but they do pile up in there. It's improved�since they put in a
wider cul-de-sac, but up until the middle of the summer it was
pretty rough.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: I would assume if any connection went
in to any road from Nursery Hill Court that would be used by a
larqe amount of construction equipment.
MR. ERICKSON: We presumed that the heavy equipment would
be coming in from the development from behind my house (inaudible)
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: I think in any portion of the village
• that's undeveloped the existing residential streets do provide
the access to the undeveloped property and you can understand there
isn't a Hamline Avenue or through street to each piece of property
that's undeveloped, so to develop that area, primarily you have to
use residential streets to get in and out and that's why we
design residential streets as high as we do and for longevity also,
but you have to gain access to the property sometimes through
residential streets. It's inconvenient, I'm sure, but this isn't
the only area where the Council has been faced with this problem.
13
0
(Inaudible) contractors have to use residential streets to get
into. We like to encourage the contractors to keep it to a
minimum.
L
�
MR. ERICKSON: Is there any set hours? Like, is it 6:00
o'clock in the morning to start the diesels and steam shovels?
Is that part of the village policy that they can start that
early, especially on a Saturday?
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: 2 don't know that the village has any
policy or regulations covering contractors' operations. Historically
contractors go to work as early as the £armers do and try to get
in as many hours as they can because of the limited construction
season, and this year was pretty wet in June and July.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: Never any more good construction
seasons than a farmer has a good growing season.
hIRS. DONNA MC CUNE, 1315 Nursery Hill Lane: I'm for
another exit too. That traffic and our children playing in the
streets, I think would be too heavy, and I'd like to be on record
as saying 2 want another exit o£f of this.
MR. AMBLE: I'd like to say, we have children playing on
our street, and we'd just as soon not have more traffic, and
as long as we're getting picayune, who's going to absorb the losses
I'm taking - roughly two lots and I'm being assessed $20,000.
I'd like to know who's picking me up. I'm talking about $75,000.
Anybody have any comment?
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: Mr. Amble and your Honor, we have
several times indicated to the developer that we needed another
access and suggested that he work with you. His original pro-
gram wouldn't (inaudibZe) and he has been working with us trying
to find the best solution, but he indicated there were none you
were interested in. There wasn't another solution that would
give us the access and get to your land.
MR. AMBLE: There wasn't anything that would really solve
the problem. There was a proposed road that ran east and west
on the north side of the woods. I'm sorry - I tried to talk to
the neighbors and find a map showing this road. I think the remark I
made the last time I was here was that I had visited previously with
people on Nursery Lane and they thought when we built that it was
a dead-end road, and all of a sudden it's no longer a dead-end
road. This proposed road that ran east and west is no longer
there and all these thinqs disappear. I just don't like the
proposal, no way.
14
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: I guess if we went ahead with this
proposal - doesn't this land lock your property?
MR. AMBLE: If you will give me an easement through this
• tax forfeited land so i can get to that end of it and I can use
this easement on the east end of it - it's a kind of a mickey-
mouse arrangement but I'll have to accept it, but I'd just as soon
not have a road go through it.
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: You'11 still get three lots'out of it.
From my standpoint this would be too long a cul-de-sac. We need
another access. Apparently we can't qet out to Hamline and there
are some disadvantages to that so it appears if we want to
develop this plat of land we have to qet to Amble Road. This
one appears to be the most practical, but as an individual Council
member l don`t like the thought of taking land from an individual
who isn't ready to develop or plan or go in that direction, so I
have a dilemma and I don't know how to solve it. This appears to
be the only solution that makes any sense unless Mr. Amble has
another one that enables us to get through.
MR. EIBENSTEINER: As far as the property is concerned,
let`s say we put a barricade on the south side of the property
line - Mr. Amble qives the village an easement - 50 foot or
60 foot easement - we'd be inclined to go along with the idea.
�� We'll put in storm sewer, water and sanitary sewer, and put a
barricade on the south end of the property line. That way Mr.
Amble has no assessment on his property. His 150 foot lot is an
oversize lot - possibly it could be reduced to two 75-foot lots.
� That way he's not landlocked. His tax structure stays the same.
We pay for the utilities without the street.
MR. ChRISTOFFERSEN: You'd pay for the water and sewer to
your property and leave the street construction out just south
of Lots 14 and 1?
MR. EIBENSTEINER: I would guess if we had the sewer and
water we'd have the area pretty well built up a year from now
but if the market goes (inaudible) it would take three years,
and if there's too much traffic then the road would have to go
through and Mr. Amble be assessed.
COUNCILMP.N CRICHTON: But there are safety reasons there.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: I'll ask for comments from the
� audience before turning it back to the Council.
COUNCILMAN HANSON: Mr. Amble mentioned a second easement.
Could we have that on the map? Is that off to the left?
MR. MILLER: It showed there is a partial right-of-way at the
far right. I think that's really mis-drawn, but there's some
type of access easement set aside there. It's not a public
easement.
15
COUNCILA4AN WINGERT: That's a private easement and it's a
half street width so there would have to be an additional ease-
ment if that was to be considered a legitimate easement. The
other one is at the west, or about at the proposed road.
• N1R. CHRISTOFFERSEN: That would be right here.
COUNCILMAN WINGERT: It occurs to me we still wind up with
the same thing. We wind up kind of decidinq there's a road at
the point or that the�'s easements going through which probably
(inaudible) a£uture road, and I guess I'm persuaded to support
that position because I have none other to support. I think
it's very important there are too many (inaudible) too long to
serve with a single cul-de-sac road. I'm looking for a solution
(inaudible) If the easement on the east was a workable easement
as Mr. Miller showed us in alternative whatever it was, i think
I'd jump on that one - that being a better solution - but
I don't see one. So far in the testimony that I have heard
tonight there's no other suggestion that there's any other
solution to solve that particular problem, For lack of another, I
support this one and, therefore, I can't see the advantage of a
half ineasure of not putting a street in. We lose the advantage
of it and you still decided that's where it's going to go.
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: Could this Council, and perhaps Mr.
" Popovich could tell us, if we go ahead with this one, at the assess-
ment hearing could the Council decide that the property through which
it goes - Mr. Amble's presently unplanned for development property -
should only be assessed at a future date and defer that portion of
, an assessment?
MR. POPOVICH: You could defer it, but we're just talking about
costs tonight, so at the assessment hearinq you could levy all the
assessments across the board as we normally have done, or that
portion on the Amble property you could defer until some future
time and then pick it up at that time if you wish to do it. We
have not deferred because of the bookkeeping involved in trying
to keep track of it, but legally you could. That decision could
be made at the assessment hearing.
MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: May I make one statement. I think the
people (inaudible) you're alluding to another lot on this side.
Let me put the original drawing back on. I just wanted to point
out to the Council if this (inaudible} and assuming the property
line ran through here over to where that would be placed it's a
• deep piece of property and there's no sanitary sewer and watermain
and that would have to be brought in from this road because there
are two lots over there and that also would have to be planned
should Mr. Amble decide to develop that into more than one or two
lots.
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: If we put that road throuqh we will
create two pieces of property for Mr. Amble. Could that assessment
at an assessment hearing time be deferred? I feel that we need
an outlet and I have heard no other alternative either. That's
why I have been searching for others for several months_and this
16
seems to be the most viable solution for it.
MR. JOHN SAURO, 466 Bayview Drive, Roseville: I have been
counselling with Mr. Amble and I was wondering if the street was
� put there as proposed, now or at a future date, this piece of
property being approximately 600 east and west and 132 running north
and south, would the Council allow a variance to have the width
of the lot facing the road to be 66 feet provided that would give
Mr. Amble four lots on the road facing east and west (inaudible)
providing that the square footages were accounted for?
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: You can't say what a Council would
do, but it would be essentially unprecedented to divide a lot
into lots that would be sub-standard.
MR. SAURO: Being Mr. Amble has, like he pointed out before, a
very good chance of losing a considerable amount of money, I think a
variance should be considered here.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: How would the money be lost? You have
now one parcel. That's one lot without any road going past.
There's no way to legally subdivide it into more than one. So
you have one now. With the road you have three lots. Two extra
lots improved would be $30,000 - and I guess maybe more than that
the way things go nowdays, so you'd be getting $30,000 and losing
$20,000 and your net gain would be $10,000 and you're likely to be
recompensed for the road going through.
MR. SAURO: But he has room for five lots.
r
•
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: But he has landlocked himself. I
believe we had the opportunity for statements, and I think it's
time to talk up here.
COUNCILMAN HANSON: 2 wouldn't mind talking on that as far as
setting a precedent. The Council has said they welcome considera-
tion of such a proposal but I think we have enough property there
that we would welcome an opportunity to review such a development
of the entire (inaudible) parcel, but we couldn't commit ourselves
to what is acceptable. But I think you have some possibilities
where you could put one driveway on a common property line and
serve two lots and that sort of thing, and could maybe work out
something. It would have to be well planned.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: I can't remember dividing a lot into
sub-standard (inaudible) we have had minor variances.
COUNCILMAN AANSON: I don't know if he'd have enough property
to use some contrivance like a planned development.
ACTING MAYOR WOODBURN: Possible - the 67 foot width lot.
17
COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: It doesn't appear to be possible
(inaudible)
•
Councilman Wingert then introduced the following resolution
and moved its adoption:
Resolution No. �
RESOLUTION ORDERING THE CONSTRUCTION OF
IMPROVEMENT NO.SS-W-P-ST-78-3 UNDER AND
PURSUANT TO MINNESOTA STATUTES, CHAPTER 429
�
�
•
BE Ii RESOLVED by the Council of the City of Arden Aills,
Minnesota, that in accordance with the provisions of Minnesota
Statutes, 1961, Chapter 429, as amended, the Council held a.
public hearing on the proposed construction of Improvement No.
SS-W-P-ST-78-3 consisting of the construction of sanitary sewer,
watermain, bituminous paving, concrete curb and gutter, storm
drainage facilities, right-of-way acquisition and necessary
appurtenances in the area bounded by Hamline Avenue on the west,
Nursery Hill Lane on the north, Karth Lake on the east, and
vacated S.T.A. 51 on the south, as described in the Notice of
Hearing at a cost presently estimated at $200,000.00, and sub-
stantially in accordance with the preliminary report as to the
feasibility thereof which is now on file in the office of the
City Clerk Administrator; and having considered the views of all
interested persons and being fully advised in the premises, the
Council does hereby determine and order that said improve-
ment shall be constructed and financed, and special assessments
shall be levied there£or, pursuant to said Chapter 429, and that
the area proposed to be assessed therefor shall include the
property as described in the Notice of Hearing. The City Consulting
Engineer is directed to prepare and submit to.the Council the final
plans and specifications.
The motion for the adoption of the foregoing resolution was
duly seconded by Councilman Hanson, and upon roll call vote being
taken thereon, the following voted in favor thereof: All; and
the following voted against the same: None; whereupon said resolu-
tion was declared duly passed and adopted.
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