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Home My WebLink AboutCC 02-06-1978�� A / /� • • � • . M�NUitS OF SPEClAL COUNC(L t�4EET;�!G ViJBage o'r Ardon H91Ys PAos�day, February 6, 8978 - 7:30 p.m, Vl��age Hali Ca�! 'ro Order Pursuant to due ca91 and notice thereof, Mayor Crepeau ca9led 4he meeting fio order at 7:35 p.m. Ro1@ Cald res� enfi - Mayor Henry .R. Grepeau, Jr,, Counc�9men James Wingert. N1ard Hanson, Char{es Crichton. Absenfi - CounciBma� Robert WOQO�IIfR. RPsrs Pt�es8n1= -�ond Counseh Pef�s- Po�oviCh, Eng�n�ar Dan��d Christartersen, Treasurer D�naBd Lamb, CNerk Adminis- trai-or Chariotte McNiesh, 0eputy CBerk Dorofhy Zehan. Bustness from ?he Floor epre� sent�attve-^� @ N`o.vak briefBy descr9bed the key tssues ot the 1978 Legislative Session rahich began January 974h and is expested ta end by Apris fst: �. An income tax cut 2. Sp�c9al Senate E8ect9on Bifl 3. Determinate Senfienc9ng 4. Sef�gu8rd Election LegSs9atlon 5, Revis'ion of Schoof Aid 691! 6. JuveniEe 3ust�ce Refiorm Nova� asked tha; p�rsons or gaverrtmen�al unitso xith suggestions flor BocaV or spec3a! interest bifis�contact him as soon as possible so V�g(sfatuon can be stari•ed ;hrough the po�ifiical process. 3n discussion, Crapeau asked Nov�k to coe�vey the des3re of many lndivBGe�a6s that the State tn#eresf companles such as 3M, Brown and B�geEoa, Norme9 etc., cur�er�tly consEder3ng new d�ve8opment, 4o s•tey in b9innesota. W"snget-t asked 9f the purport�d Stat� sur- plus Bs reaP; ask�d Af there MilB be any �djustmenl- i� income or property tax rel�ef? Novak said these are biennial f6gures; parts ot tho budget are ou# of the Si-ate's controY tFedera! and other bodies of govern- menfi>; St�i�e cannot run on d�ficit, accord3ng to by-�aws; finaY decisaons o-�9El be made in March. PUBi�C HEAREN65: !_mprovemsrtt P-ST-77-6 SConneiay Aven�ie) • Mayor Crepeau apened �Phe pubitc hearing re amprov�m�nt PWST-77-6 (Connelfy Avenua) an� Clerk Administrator tAcNiash var3fied that . Hearing notices aere mailed to a��tec'red property owners on 8/20/78 artd i�hat nofiice of hearing was published in the New Srighfion 8u81etin an U 26/78 and 2/2/78. � Enc�ir,eer Chris#off�rsen expiained th�# the improv�ment proposes that Connelly Ave�nue De a 36� a�ide bitum6nous paved streat with concrete curb and gu#Te;�, and of 9-i-on capacity; drain�ge is pro- �- pos�� i-o the nori-hwest corner where 1t ai91 f�oa 3nto a proposed de-Fen#ion basin to be draRned by an existing E8 inch storm sewer thafi disch�rges €ntc s draSnag� dttch on the east sad� of Snelling • Avenue. Chr9sfoffersen notad -i•hat fhe de-Fention pon� and drainage along west side of parking @ot "C" are not 3nc8uded &n the dmprove- men-t; prnpossd fio be consi-ructad by Ffahertys An conjurction wi$h their proposed expansion pla�s. Bond CcunSei Pe-rer Popovtch �xolained the tin8nc4ng uf the imprave- mep# which is estimataa to cost $74,60Q.00. 3n discuasion, Pa# Flaherty ref�rrsd Council to points noted Bn loti-er from Jerry Anderson. 9t was noted 4hat assessment decisions cannot be made u�ti0 the assessment hearing tor •�-he lmprovement; after th� prnjec� is completed and ali cosfs are kno.ar; Connelly Avenue Is not a Stafie4a6d Street, #heretore, contribu#don trom State-a!d fiunds is no# possible. � _�_ �' . ,, n U • s • • � • :� Miinut�s o� S�ecial Counc+f Mee-i�i�ig February 6, 6978 P�y�� -wa Ftahsi'ty no-red that the d�eC exchange has not be�n complefied re fh� two section5 of t,oad i�7volved; it wouid be helpful to kno�+, prior to this exchange, r�hather zhe exchange is actually bene- ficiai to Fiahertys; uould iike �to know how assossmeni-s will be tevied; percontago oF costs to be aElocated fo each property, etc, Flahsrty irtdica,ted thai he wan'rs the �ity to go ahead wlth the �mprovement; probabfy � misfake 'ro maka i-t on�-�eay; teais this Nill create confusion; other aspects make serrse to htm; probtem on County Road E is #h� speed, especialiy over the hridge. ?opovich sxpisinad that le�atly �Yhe City canrtc�t commifi itself; a r�ui-ual firus�e should b� d�roe6oped; 9mprovement shouNd be a #±va proJeci-; the cosfi to Fiahe�� $�8,700 3f r�ssessed on front daai- anci �;cresge hasis; cctile ufily agree #a a percentago for each properi-y i4 a91 ver� here; deter- mination of benefiT 6s the basis for assessment. Crepeau assured F6aherty thafi a!I the pro�erties w��l be treated fairSy and Flaheriy requssiad Counci� ?o praceed aB�h tha PBans and Spec9fiEcations. dSee at-�ached MQnutes of the Hearing re&ativ� to dmprovement No. P�ST-77-6,3 . Aft�r do4ermfning there Here no furfher comments or questions from the 'rfo�r, �fhe Puhiic kearing �aas cl�sed. Cour,cii deficrred aci•ian until -the Councii Mee#3ng o� February 27, l97E. lropraver�er�t tJo. W-77-� gVlaisr I�ari-hwestarn Portton af Vi i ia e? Mayor Crepeau opened 'tha Public Hearing re lmprovamer�t No. W- 7-5. Ciork Adminisirator McNiesh verified fihat Hearing notdces were mailed i•o affectad proQarty a�v��ers on i/20/78 and 4hr:t notica of hearing was pub6ished e>� the New @rlghton Bu69etin on I/26178 and 2l2l78. � E�gineer• Christoffersen expiained thai- 'rhe improvoment proppses a core system to serve #he norEhtaesteriy por�•ion ot tne Vi9laga Mhich inciudes �runk erat�rmain 8 3nches in diarr�tEr and iarger; assame 1-hat smalier 6-inch diarae-ter �aafermains serving interlor iand car; be cannected 1•r� the trunk facllities as the ix�nd is devetoped. Chrisi�ofrersen said this proposed vatermafn systsm genera�iy foltows the master watermain p}an preperod by Arden Hi1is in 1967. 6ond Counsef Pet�r Fopovich exp9ained the financing of i�he improve- nient ahich is estimatad to cost $8b7,700.00. (See the attach�d Mi�au•tes of tha H�aring reiative to Nlater Pmprove- meni' Yl-77-5.�9 After defiermining therQ wera no -�urther quest�ons o� comments from the f9oor, Council requesi�ed a show ot hands (in favor of, opposed to and neutr�l� for each segmenfi oT the proposed improvement. The hearing wAs cPosec� and Courcii de1-ermin�d to 4ake the mati�er urder advisement, det�rri�g ac-iion to the Counc+l Meeting of February 27, l978. OTFSEk BUSI�ESS Ord3nance {�o. 200 - De-Ferrod to Covnci8 Mes#ing of February 13, l978. Case Na. 77-6dA Siqn Variaiice - Tosvn Crier Restaurani- Mr. Haye presanted an aniendod site plan, indica-ting #he proposed foca�Fion ror fihe Toan Grier restaurant sign; expiained that because of the ground e6evafilon, an approximate 73' height variance Bs requested -to bring the bottom of the sign even with the top of the Lexing'ron Avenus guard ra}I; no se-hback var3ances are requested as sf 'red. -2 - � � '�iin.�i'e�s of Spec+al Councii rae�.-ri�g Pag�� 'rhree _ Fet�ruaa-y 6, 1978 W¢ngsrt movs�d, seconded by Nanson, that Council appresve a 7$� he3�3hi- varianc� for the Toan Crier restaurant slgn as s9ted on the �mended sife plan dated February 6, 1978, sign hetgh'�.to not exce3d 23#�. Motion carrisd unanimous9y. Safet r1 U i s • omme t - H ana ansll�ng Avenue Councii aas referred i-o the Public Safety Commdfitse Minutes of 2/t/7H re Traffic 3ncrease Concerns. After dfscussion Crichton moved, saconded by Hanson, thai� Councii authorTae,the Caerk Adminis- firator fio arrsnge tor the instailation ot two break-aray lights to appropriatefy fight the Nlghway lE/SE�elling/Hamiine 9ntersection. Motion carried unarsimously. %Crich4on noted tha�Y i�e considers this a stop-gap; wan-ts to pursue a parmanenfi solutian for �ihis �ntersection.D REPORT AF CLERK ADM9N9STRATOR CHARLOTTE MCNiESH Rubb�sh NauBers licenses • Vdingert moved, seconded by Hanson, that i-he Councll approve the nine Rubbish HauBer Licensos as I�sted. Mo�tion Carried uoanimously. McNiAsh �as r�quested to de#ermine if the regui�tory ordinaoce provitles for approva9 of r�tes charged by rubbish haulers and to r�porf on {977 charges, Temporacy PortaDie Siqn - St. Paul Book and Statfonery Hanson moved, seconded by Wingsrt, that Council approve 7��e tem- porary sign requested by St. Pau4 (3aok and Si-att�nery Company, �rith tno contingency that i-he sign ae lit on�y dur(ng the hvurs of saie and i-ha? the sign be sf�red aii-hin fihe building when not in use. Motian carri�d unanimausly. Walvar or' Fees tor Vendinq Machines and Sians Counc�l was referred to memo from t�IcNiesh listdng vending machines and signs fo�- ahich ficense fems have not boen charge;i, or for which fees have been waivod. Arter discussion, Wingert moveel, seconded by Crichi�on, that Gouncil require fihat �fi vendiny machines be licansed. Motion carried unanlmously. t�i' was Counci!'s undarstanding that the penalty feo will not be cha�gsd for !a�te paym�ni- of these Iicanse fees.i ear End Tr�nsfdrs from Foderal Reven tilitv Fuads —` • � ' � nd from Mcra�esh referred Counci! to her memo of 2/3/78 and noted corrections to be mado. ,4. Federa@ Revenue SharFnc Transi�r Cr9chtor moved, seconded by WSngart, that C�uncil aui-horize the pest four items iisfod in memo for FEdsrel Revenue Sharing Transfars: Legal, over �udgo-t $f8,430.60 Storm Sower Grates 2,814,52 Counei! Ghairs 632.45 lnsurance, ovsr budget I4,840.58 • 6. Motion carried unantmousiy, t iransf�rs t f� �racnton moved, seconded by Naeson i-hat Councei author3ze the transfer of t6,000 trom Sexer to fihe PuhRBc Works Reserve Fund; balance of $20,000 to be transferred during 8978 as funds ara ava�labie; authoriae #he transfar ot 52,500 from Wate- Ut;pity to $he F'ublic Idarks Reserve Fund. Mo#ioo car�ied ur�anlmously, -3- 529,798,08 �+j0I5U�i35 c`,i :ie)3C��'e?fi (,°OUIIC:� � ��f30'e'�I1cJ. .� Page fc�u� • =r�t+�-uai-y 5, 8978 Eseabiisn Mu�3ci�al La�d anci ButRdinyS Fe�nd H�nsc7n movad, seconded by C�-ich��ori,f tha4 :612,000 be transferred from 6enaral Fund to �Run9cipaN Land and Bui9ding Fund. Motdon carr±ed unanimously. General :�und Balance Deferred fio rneeting ofi February i3, 1978, pend4nr� detafds frow McNiesh �e Sawer 4��provement No, 44 and o�rher reCommenda�hions for Councii°s coasideration retz�tiva i�o reduction of General Fund Cash Ba9ance. Reso6ufii��n No. 78-7 Re Char6es AmGle Wingerfi enoved, seconded by Crichi-o�, fihat Councli appro�e Rasolu- tian No. 78-7 directing Ram�ey County Department of Taxation to place ba3ance of Se�aer 8mprovemeret 12-f3 and Wafier Bmprovemeat 72-6 assessrosnts on Parcef No. 25--0220U-Odp-86. MotPov� carried unanimousip. Drake Bnsurance Company of N Counci! �iracted McNiesh i-o advis+ng fhat its lefiter of tion �s -f-o what the claim is ew York - �+rtve ro rne Drak� ansuranca Company February 2. 8478 is devoid of infiorma- on mhlch tt seaks informatfon. Letfier re Minneapolis Hide �nd Tai{o� McNiesh referred Council to Februa ry 2, 1978 letter 4rom W. W. Tully, Jr., re Case No. 77-48, Minnaapolis Hide and Taliow. Wingerf noved, secooded by Cr9chi�on, that Council refer the Appli- cation for Building Pe�-mif �Case No. 77�4Fsi to fihe Board o# Appea9s- for re-enaminatioei anc+ its subsaquc�nt recamm�ndai'3ons fio Council; Rttorney Lynd�n and Councilman Wingeri�, ta maet �6th ti�e Board of Ap,peais rela'�ive to this rnatter. �tot�on carriad unanimously. Tax-Bxempt Property Charges ,�� Council•re rred the metfier �f ahat ` " ' - costs 4e charged i�o •tax-exet�pf propsrties for refmbursement to the Cffiy, to the Financ� Commtfitea for its recommendations to the Councii, Countii SalarY Review ouncfi �efer�ed tMe rsviea of Council saiaries to #he Finance Commirteo for its recommendaYions -Fo Councif. Adjournment Wi�geri moved, seconded ;�y lianson, -that the meetiig adjourn at 12:t4 a.R:. hfoiinn cerrisd unenimous{y. /� � � / ""', / � i � / � // �, _,� �_.�.�:_�� -_-� c.�._� ' [�J�,�.�. �.. _ �, . . � Notice of Nleetiny The next Regular Councfl MeetPng will be held on F4onday, February. 13, 1978 at 7:30 p,m, at the Yillag3 Hafl. -� - / ,.-� . __. 1978 Rubbfsh Haulers Licenses Applications Pendinq Council Approval � , . i � . I. Ace Solid Waste � 3118 162nd Lane N.W., Anoka, 55303 (same) • 2, Walter's Disposal Service 283C IOlst Ave. N.E. • Minneapolis 55434 (same) � 3. Gallagher�s Service, Inc. 9151 Central Ave. N.E. • Ninneapolis, 55433 (same) • 4. Browning-Ferris, Ind. 9813 Flying Cloud Crive Eden Prairie, 55343 (same) 5. Suburban P�k-up Service 3800 Restwood Rd. Circle Pines (same7 6. W.D. Gray, Trucking 1036 West Central Ave. St. Paul, 55104 (same) 7. Woodlake Sanitary Service 400 Hamel Road Hamel, 55340 (same) 8. Guy's Disposal Rt. I, Box 29 Stacy 55079 (same) 9. Village P,ubbish Removal 1930 Burns St. Paul, 55119 (same) Rubbish Hauler ,�f'ryto. o? �+-v� / Rubb(sh Haul,er 2'.sz-i c,a�rc.vc-m-� P.ubbish Haulu n Y:�l�' s3�c.,d,��k.-P.ti.,a..e Rubbish Ha.uler C�e�a,<" c. ,n7'�h �.uGQ Rubb' h Hauler ��liq Rubbish Hauler ��/�� Rubbish Hauler .�-',5�'� P.ubbish Hauler 'f� °�/7�t B Rubb(sh Hauler ✓d •.�I3 - �� $15.00 @ 15.00 @ I5.00 @ 15.00 e is.00 � I5.00 @ 15.00 C� I5.00 L� 15.00 � _ � Extract of Minutes cf Meeting of City Council City of Arden Hills Ramsey County, Minnesota February 6, 1978 Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, a special meeting of the City Council of the City of Arden Hills, Minnesota, was held in the City Hall in said City on Monday, the 6th day of February, 1978, at 7:30 o'clock p.m. The following members were present: Mayor Crepeau and Councilmen Crichton, Hanson, and Wingertt and the following was absent: Councilman Woodburnt • Also present were: Charlotte P1cNiesh, City Clerk Admini- atratort Don Lamb, City Treasuxeri Don Christoffersen, City Consulting Engineerr and Peter S. Popovich, City Bond Consultant. � The City Clerk Administrator presented an Affidavit showing publication of notice of hearing on proposed Improvement No. P-ST-77-6 in accordance with the resolutfon adopted December 19, • 1977, which affidavit was exaroined and found to be satisfactory and was directed to be filed by the Clerk Administrator. The City Clerk Administrator also exhibited a Certificate of Mailing Notice of Hearing to all affected property owners, which certifi- cate was examined and found to be satisfactory and was directed to be filed by the Clerk Administrator. � ' � • � � � All persons present were then afEorded opportunity to be heard, and the names and addresses of the persona appearing and heard by the Council, and the substance of the views presented by them were as followss MR. AON CFIRISTOFFERSEN, City Consulting Engineer: "The location of Connelly Avenue Improvement is off of County Road E, which is in the vicinity east of Snelling Avenue, south of the Soo Line Railroad, which is in this vicinity, primarily around Flaherty's Arden Howl which is located in this vicinity. Currently, Connelly Avenue is a"T" shaped street. It comea up to this point here and has a cul-de-sac, and over to this side and has a cul-de-sac. The Council desires to change Connelly Avenue to a through type '�U" street which would be 36 feet in width with concrete curb and gutter, designed for nine-toY� loading. " "There are drainage structures on Connelly which would be in this area, catch bas3ns located fn these positions, drai.n westerly to a detention basin, and then out through the state highway drainage system. 2 believe that covers the street construction, your HonOr." MR. PETER S. POPOVICH, City Bond Consultant: "The total cost is $74,600.00. It is proposed that the entire amount be assessed against the benefited property owners. Part of that cost -$22,900 - is for storm sewer, and $51,700 is for the street portion, so breaking that down a little further, the street cost wi11 average $28 a front foot and the storm sewer cost for 7.8 acres will be assessed at $3,000 per acre to raise the amount of money necessary for the storm sewer cost. This will be spread over a 20 year period of ti.me and the assessment hearing will occur after the improvement is in and we know the final costs, but for purposes of evaluating the feasibility, those are the costs that the engineer has come up with, we would recommend that it be spread over a 20 year period of time with the right of prepayment without any interest penalty at any tisne each year by any of the affected property owners." 2 � � MAYOR CREPEAU: improvement - anyone take the microphone record, because this MR. POPOVICH: � � � � "if there are any questions concerainq the like to ask a question or make a statement, and qive us your name and address for the is a public hearing." "Do we have any correspondence for or against?" I�IItS. MC NIESH: "I believe there was a letter at the last Council meeting from the architect for Flaherty's." COUNCILMAN CRICHTONs ��That was with some suggeated ap- praaches." MRS. MC L�'lESH: "Toward assessments." COUNCILMAN CRICFPPON: "I have one question for the engineer. Your letter to us indicated that the cost estimate did not in- clude the cost of digging the detention basin or the storm lines in parking lot C. We assume that �.*ould be paid by the developer. Is the developer in accordance with that assumption7" MR. CHRiSTOFFERSEN: "We have discussed thfs matter with the developer, and they have agreed to make that part of the construction." MR. PAT FLAF�RTY: "I don't have much to add. The letter I passed out at the last meeting addressed itself to three thoughts. One was the matter of assessment. On an informal basis this matter was discuased last week, and at that time the figures you qave were made known to the people at Buetow Associates, and 2'd asked them to check into it and they had written me a letter and that letter was then pasaed out to the folks that were preaent last time. I don't know if you want to put that in your record or not, but the thrust of the letter was the manner of the assessment - to try to get it treated as equally as possible." "The second item was to see if it weren't possible to use the existing street to the extent possible. The third item was - because of the nature of the development - we seemed - at least the people we had engaged to look the situation over for us - to see if perhaps there couldn't be some contribution toward that from village funds or from 3 � State Aid Funds or things like that if such were available, and = about all I'm here this evening to do is to sort of "hat in hand" hope that those matters set forth in that letter will receive consideration," MAYOR CREPEAU: "I'd like at this ti.me to ask Christoffersen about Road and Bridge Funds. Would propriate in this situation? Could any be used?" Mr. they be ap- MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "This is not a State Aid StreeC." MAYOR CREPEAU: "That's what I was fearful of." • cOUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "As S understand it, this is not the assessment hearing, and that's the time we will decide how it will be assessed or whether any other sources are availab�e. (=naudibZe) as to how we would allocate that would be made at the assessment hearing after the project is ffnished snd we know how much money is required. Ton3ght it's a question of whether we proceed with the project, even though S know it makes a difference to you how it will be paid." Mr. Flaherty then noted that the deed exchange has not been • completed re the two sections of road involvedt it w�uld be helpful to know, prior to this exchange, whether the exchange is actually beneficial to Flaherty'st would like to know how assessments will be leviedt percentage of costs to be allocated to each property, etc. Flaherty indicated that he wants the City to go ahead with the improvement� probably a mistake to make it one-way� feels this will creat confusiont other aspects • make sense to himt problem on County Road E is the speed, especially over the bridge. MAYOR CREPEAUs "We're goinq to vote on this on February 27 - whether to go ahead with the project, and between tonight � and that date, perhaps some agreement should be made beforehand about that eastern portion oE the property that you own - your corporation owns." MR. FLAHERTY: "That was the thought that I had." COUNC2T1N1AN CRICHTON: "If there's no trade - if Mr. Flaherty isn't interested in pursuing the trade, then we have a situation where the road is not appropriate because we woulda't be able to enlarge it (inaudible).'� 4 ! MR. POPOVICH: "As I remember the feasibility report, the cost we have given you does not include anything for the acqui- sition of the property, does it, Don?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN; "No." MR. POPOViCH: "So that would be left to what other nec}ot3ations - bther considerations may be that are involved," C UNCI CRICHTON; "it ass s a trade because if we don't the other section � Connelly, then there is not enouqh parking space for the building." MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "That's the assumption i was going on - that they were swapping land." MR. POPOVICH: But there's no assumpt3on that there would be any other cost added to this." • MR. FLAHERTY: "The cost £actor involved in that is a cost factor (inaudible) so what we're trying to do is achieve the smallest cost possible for the whole development. That's why i thought maybe a21 of the factors that went zn to deveZop • miqht be subject to discussion rather than have the whole thing done and then at some future time have a determination made as to the method upon which construction would be assessed." � � MR. POBOVICH: "I think what the Council has to ascertain - becanse this is a feasibility hearinq and the assessment hearinq doea come later - but based on the feasibility report, is he opposed to the improvement going ahead assuming the warst, be- cause if it turned out to be the worst, then abvioualy the Council ought to know that and you would consider whether you'd order the i.mprovement. As to whether there's any portion you could work out depending on what other considerations come into play - the openinq of bids - the cost of the project - some of these other things - then obviously that, you can take into consideration when the fina2 assessmenEs are made prior to the assessment hearing and the adoption of the assessment roll, but Mr. Flaherty, you don't convey to the Council that the project is not feasible." 5 � � AlR. FLAHERTY: "Quite frankly, I'm neutral, but I also understand that perhaps in order t� qet the rest of the develop- ment (inaudible) i tktink it's probably a mistake making that a one-way. The one-way feature in my mind, I think is going to create a lot �re confusion out there than it's worth." MAYOR CREPEAU: "The one-way £low of traffic?" MR. FLAHERTY: "To restate it, i# I were sitting up there, the deciaion I would probably make is don't make it a one-way - at least to begin with. Set it up so you can have a one-way at some future date if it doesn't work out." COUNCII�MAN W2NGERT: "Is your opinion the same if it's one-way clockwise or covntercloekwise, or do you not lfke tlte proposed clockwise as we're looking down on it, or does this make a difference to you?" MR. FLAF�ERTY: "I really hadn't given that too much thought. • I guess I would say either way probably. I don't think either way is as good as allowing the people to go what they're pro- bably qoing to do anyway." • MR, CHR25TOFFERSEN: "T realize in the future you may get more traffic, Has there been a traffic accident problem?" MR. FLAHERTYo "The worst problem of all is the terrific rate of speed the people go on County Road E after they come off that bridge." • COUNCILMAN WiNGERT: "I don't believe our accident repoit makes that dangerous corner. The report seems to exonerate it aad yet, I've witnessed a lot of close ones there with people sheeting off the Freeway," � MR. FI�AIiERTY: "The oniy point S'm trying to get {inaudible) as a busi.nessman ia conjunetion with the overall development - that it would seem before the Iand swap that would take place {inaudible) your best bargaining power to achieve the best assessment on that. We have never gone into it on the relative values of what we're giving up in exchange for what the village is giving up and I'd hope that maybe (inaudible) whole situation we might know more where we're at rather than doing the whole thing and at a future time having an assessment hearing on it," � � ,� MR. POPOVICHe "I can see it from your point of view. From the pure legal point of view it's hard for us to commit ourselves to any dollars when you don't have bids - the job hasn't been done. That's why the statute contemplates two hearings - one on feasibility and one on assessments, but that you just don't do the two together, and so, I'm only going by the statute. Obviously if parties can agree and it works out that way, fine. But I've never recommended it and I've seen these tentative agreements fall apart if something went haywire down the line and something came up you hadn't contemplated no matter how much good will there is on the part of both sides. There has to be mutual trust in the sense as to what you're trying to accomplish and what the city is trying to accomplish unless the parties have an idea one is trying to get the other." COUNCILMAN WINGERT: '�GJhat precedent is there for establish- ing the benefit of a street. Is there some way to do this, and what's it based on?" MR. POPOVICH: "I'd want to review some of the have come up (inaudible) the use by the community at versus the immediate people surrounding it." � cases that large COUNCILMAN WINGERT: "On a traffic basis - cars per hour - something like that?" MR. POPOVICHe "The problem you have is, up until now - and a Supreme Court case just came down a week ago on Southview Country Club on anticipate use, and I haven't read that case. I've been out of town and I just saw the announcement of it. But normally, it's the benefit to the property before and after, so when we give an assessment - for instance, he's got $4B4O00 being assessed out of the total against his particular piece of property. Technically there's got to be an inerease in the market value of his property. If there isn't an increase in market value, and the matter becomes a contested thing and is tried as an appeal from the assessment (inaudible) in the appraisal. That's why I asked - is he opposed in the sense it's been presented, because this is the worst possible picture, and he gave his answer that you heard. If it's an improveaent that's put in for a small localized area - which this one tends to be - because primarily it's (inaudible) that takes care of Flaherty and the other property surrounding, but I would want to do 7 � �`� (inaudible). I'd want to talk to the engineer and talk to an appraiser, but at this point we're getting adverse and I was hoping the matter didn't get into an adversary situation because we are, and I trust, up until this point, have been in a more cooperative bent rather than an adversary bent." MR. FLAI�RTY: "2 don't think we're in an adversary posture yet." MR. POPOVICH: "But I have to determine whether it might end up that way." . . . . . Reporter changing tape . . . . . • MR. POPOVICH: "Would you get opposition from other quarters. Those are the things that come into play, They all got notices, Theoretically, the theory of the law is, they got notices. The mere fact that people don't come would at least indicate from whatever inquiry they made, due process has been satisfied. Supposing I was a property owner across the street and I called and asked what is the cost of the project. How many dollars would Flaherty pay and what do I pay, and so I say that's fair enough, I won't come. But if it's $10,000 more than you told me - you've reduced his and increased mine, and I don't want to get in that position, much as I can sympathi2e with what he wants to do. I've seen ten property owners where there was a 100� assessment - where they have aqreed to what the percentage would be and they've done it by unit charge and forgotten about the frontage and acreage and said we'll each pay one-tenth, so no matter what the cost came out later you have had that tenta- tive agreement between them that they won't be objecting, but to do it with one and not the other people does raise some problem if you're qoing to reduce it unless you say we will not change the others, but we will reduce yours. Hut only you can make that decision," MR. FLAHERTY: "Don, I was looking at the study you gave the Council on January 16. I don't believe in that study you really address yourself specifically to how you're going to assess it, and apparently there was a paragraph that the Buetow people took up from and assumed that perhaps as far as a gutter and street are concerned you would do it on a front footage basis, and the storm sewer would be on an acreage basis." � � `•� MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "I did not put in the report what each property owner would be assessed, I did that purposely. The Buetow people did call me and ask what I thought the frontage would be as picked off a section map, and I gave it to them, and they made the multiplication." COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "It's the engineer•s recommendatfon, but nothing is settled." MR. FLAI�RTY: "8ad you xecoaunended that it be asseased that way?" NII2. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "It wasn't my intention that there be a recommendation for an assessment. I put it in the report to give the Council an idea how much it would cost on a basis that's familiar to them." COUNCiLMAN CRTCF�fON: "I mis-stated. It wasn't his recom- mendation. He stated that if it's done this way that's how it would be spread and that's 100% on frontage and that's com- monly on streets, and acreage is common on storm sewer, so on the standard practice of what has been done in the past, that's what this is based on. I didn't want to make a recommendation at this time. That's done at the assessment hearinq." I�Ilt. POPOVICH: "And the way he stated it is 100%, and that's the worst possible thing the property owners could have." MR. FLAFiERTY: MR. POPOVZCH: • "That we could have." "Yes, that you could have." COUNCILMAN CRICHT�N: "At the assessment hearing, for example, I will. ask questions like how do we treat corners in another development when you put in homes or businesses. Does a property owner on a corner pay footage on both sides of the corner. This was our first three sided corner, so we don't have a precedent, but that would be important to me. How have we handled corners before7" NIIt. CHI2ISTOFFERSEN: "We'd have to go back into the (in- audible)." COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "I want to look at it at the time af assessments, but I don't think I could do it now.�� G7 � ,�� MR. FLAHERTY: "Could somebody educate me on that?" MR. POPOt7ICH: "Procedurally, under the law and the local Improvemeat Code, the two stage phase is for determining feasibility, and we do that through an engineer's feasibility report which is a pub7.ic record. Sometimes they go further and call for bids and have all the bids and everythfng in your hand prior to the feasibility hearing. That gives you firmer figures. But normally we don't recommend that because you get too much front end cost, Then, based on the report and the reaction, the improvement is ordered. Then bids axe called, the awards are made and the contract is @one. There could be some things that could vary those costs downward or upward, depending on when the bids are received and changes during the course of construct- ion, but at some point in time the construction is done and we know all the costs. Not only construction costs, but the cost of financing, the cost of capitalized interest, bond coLmsel cost, engineering costs that come into play.. There's a check- sheet that we work out with the City Clerk's office prior to the preparation of the assessment roll. That cost is then given to the Council at the time they set the assessment hearing. The project is in," ,_, MR. FLAF�RTY; "That's what I was afraid of. The land has been transferred." MR. POPOVICH: "But at that time you know the total costs that are involved. Then the Council determines how much should be assessed and how muCh should be on general taxes. Here we have asaumed everything would be assessed for purposes o£ giving the worst possible picture from a due process point of view. The Council can then tell the engineer the project was $100,000 and at the time of the feasibility hearing we thought it would be $75,000 - we will only assess $75,000 and pick up $25,000 on general taxes. Those are judgment decisions you have to make when you prepare your assesament roll. You have the assessment • hearing and you have the people come in, and I've seen assess- ment roll changes because nobody is infallible and beneEits have to be taken into consideration as well as other aspects that may be brought to the Council's attention at the hearinq or in your discussions at any other time, and the assessment roll is amended and then sent to the county, so it's a long process." -10- � MAYOR CREPEAUs "And if the project is finished this year � we could probably talk assessments this year." IrIIt. FLAHERTY: "Is it out of line to get some kind of indication how the people feel ot� the assessments, even though everybody understands it's not binding?" MAYOR CREPEAVa "No, I don't believe that would be out of line. There are no commitments." MR. FLAE�RTY: "Nobody is committing anything, but what we would be doing is transferring land we now own to accomplish this and sort of doing that in the blind, so to speak. That may be the way they do things outside of the normal business routine, but that's not the way you do it in business." COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "What we have to decide ie, is it feasible for the City of Arden Aills regardless of who pays how much. Is it worth it to the city, and at the assessment hearing we try to distribute the costs in an appropriate way to what the benefit is received. I understand your cottcern as far (inaudible) on the trade of the property to accomplish this. I've kind of assumed right along that without the trade we couldn't do the development. You're picking up land where you do not have access today for some other land that you do, and presumably making a better arrangement all the way around so far as the trade is concerned. I don't understand (inaudiblej." MR. FLAHERTY:" "I want to make that point clear without offending anybody, and we're dedicating quite an amount for that ponding area which is a benefit not just to us, but to all of the people," COUNCILMAN CRiCHTON: "I'm sure that will be taken into consideration when the (inaudible),�� • MAYOR CREPEAU: "You had the worat possible picture painted for you and I'm certainly not in favor of that. I'd like (inaudible} of you gentlemen to make - not a committment - but make a atatement." COUNCILMAN CRICI3�ON: "I have already indicated some con- sideration should be given in some fashion to the fact that these is a corner involved." -11- � � MAYOR CREPEAUo "And the other four property owners should be considered." (70UNCILMAN WINGERTe "That was my basis for asking what there is by way of precedent for establishing }�enefit because it seems to me benefits are mare equally distributed than the geometry of this thing to distribute the cost and I was looking for some alternate rationale to establish this, that based on the corner situation that Flaherty is being socked for three sides, plus it doesn't seem equitable, and I'm looking for an equitable basis to proceed. I must say I don't, frankly, have one at this titr�, so 2'm saying during the interim here, we try to establish one (inaudible)." MR. POPOVICfi: "A11 of these front footages or acreage are just formuZas to try to arrive at a benefit. The ultimate test is what is the benefit that's been received. (Inaudible) what cause benefit (inaudible) or market value to increase if you don't consider use. Now apparently the Supreme Court says you can include use because the South View Country Club is a country club and the Court took it into consideration, but previously the law said forget about the ixse of the property, and the fact that it's used for a school or business or residence my change at some future time. Buildings are torn down, and what is the life of the improvement, Thittgs of that nature, so you put the engineer on the stand - how long will this improvement last? There are so many factors that come into play to arrive at that nebulous thing - what is the benefit to each property owner, so we have taken a method of arriving at it which is front foot or acreage in order to do it, and that's just a mechanism to help. If in one's judgment - and I've seen that done - forqet about acreage - we have 100 lots, we're going to assess one 1/10 aqainst each 1ot {inaudible)." MR. CHRISTOFFERSENa "But the true test - correct me if I'm . wronq - appraisal of the property by land appraisers before and after." MR. POPOVICH: ��And you can't afford to do that, so it just isn't done," COUNCII�7 WINGERT: "It would be a couple thousand dollars to appraise it." -12- � MAYOR CREPEAU: "I think you're going to be treated fairly. I'm sure of it. If it's done this year, I'm positive." MR. FI,A�F�RTY: "As far as the feasibility, that's fine." COUL3CILMAN CRICE�PONs "I have a technical question. Assu- ming this is a one-way street - 36 £eet is what we have been having for two-way streets, Could it be narrower, and therefore, less costly if its only one-way?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "I don't know what we planned (inaudi- ble). I would say, leave it as a 3b foot street. I think try it as a two-way, and if it doesn't work, change to one-way. You're not out anything by having it extra wide." COUNCTI.MAN WINGERT: "May I point out one thinq with that concept to argue against it? If you look at the proposed drive- ways in and out of the parking lots, aad in and out of the new proposed Eacility, iE you start making that two-way and collecting lines between those driveways, you will see more criss-crossing than you can shake a stick at, so if you think it's chaos now when the bowling lanes are over -- Now I'm not naive enough to think making it one-way will eliminate the jackstraws out there, but I think it will cut it down, especially if you try to enforce a one-way (inaudible) but I just dread the thought o£ people bopping in and out of those parking lots and coming out of McDonalds (inaudible)," MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "Even if you have a one-way it's pro- bably to your advantage to have two lanes rather than just one. Your existing Connelly Avenue as it exists today, or as it was constructed in the past, was 30 feet." COUNCILMAN CRICHTbN: "If it weze to be a two way street you'd recommend 36. If it were to be a one-way you'd recommend • 36 feet." I�Ilz. CHRTSTOFFERSEN; "I think you'd get the value out of side by side vehicular traffic movinq out of there." MR. FLAHERTY: "Whichever way the Council deaides - one-way or two, but my suga,�estion is try it out, but we'll pass leaflets out and everything to try to explain to the customers," -13- � � CoUNCILMAN CRICHTONa "His answer to the question makes that moot to me at this ti�." After determining there were no further comments or questions from the floor, the public hearing was closed, with the Council deferring action on the improvement until its meeting of February 2'7, 1978. � l �j' � �/ '�.,".-'� �'fl,l�l� C� —� � � , i „�;- ` ,� , z�.. i� -14- � � Extract of Minutes of Meetinq of City Council • City of Arden Hills Ramsey County, Minr�esota February 6, 1978 Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, a special meeting of the City Council of the Cfty of Arden Hills. Minnesota, was held in the City Hall in eaid City on Monday, the 6th day of Februsry, 2978, at 7s30 o'clock p.m. The followinq members were preeent: Mayor Crepeau aad Councilmen Cric�ton, Hanson, aad Wingert and the following • was absent: Councflman Woodburn Also present were; Charlotte MeNiesh, City Clerk Admini- stratort Don Lamb, City Treasurert Don Christoffersen, City • Consulting Tingineert and Peter S. Popovich, City Bond Con- sultant. The City Clerk Administrator presented an affidavit showirig publication of notfce of hearing on proposed Improvement No, w-77-5 in accordance with the resolution adopted December 19, 1977, which affidavit was examined and found to be eatis- ' factory and was dizected to be filed by the Clerk Adminiatrator. • The City Clerk Administrator also exhibited a Certificate of Mailing Notice of Hearing to all affected property owners, which certificate was examined and found to be satisfactory and was dixected to be filed by the Clerk Administrator. C7 All persons present were then afforded opportunity to be � heard, and the names and addresaes of the perscns appearinq and heard by the Council, and the substance of the viewe preseated by them were as followaz MR. DON Ci�tISTOFF�RSEN, City Consulting Enqineer: "This is watermain Project 77-4 for the northweetern part of Che village. To qet you oriented, this is Interstate 35-W in this location, It�terstate 694 in this location, and it awinge down into here and off (inaudible) 8ighway 96 ia this location, Hamliae Avenue here, Snelling Avenue here, and Hiqhway 10 here. The proposed project is to conatsuct watermain to eerve the area primarily located within the boundary ot thia dotted line. This does show part of the Arsenal property, and it's questionable whether or not they w�ould need servfce. but • otherwise it generally defines the boundary of the improvement axea." "Currently there are existing watermain facilities coming £rom the tower located by Coatrol Data, up 8amline Avenue, and ends at this particular point. There are also watermain faci- lities south on Hamline in thie area. The proposed improvement • would be io increase or add watermain facllities alonq the south eide of Highway 96. This would be a 12 inch line, and across from Highway 10 to a point here. Another propoeed trunk line r�uld oonnect to the one on Highway 96 an8 run southerly along Snelling to its termination point. Another watermain would connect to the existing facilities on Hamline Avenue. This would be an eight inch watermaia, and extead westerly, connect at the same point, and then under Highway 10 with a 12 inch watermain. There are existiag matendain £acilities on Old Aighway 10 south of 694, and a amall break in the main, but there are existing watermain facilities to the north side. Connect to this particular watermain wit'h a 12 inch, aad right ' up to this point. Another 12 inch would be aronnd the south aide of R,ound Lake to this point, eiqht inch alonq the frontage • road up to Highway 96. The eiqht inch vrould continue alonq the north side of Highway 96 to the intersection of Hfghway 10 and 96. Another 12 iach line up the west side of State 8lghway 10. We find that this project is Peasible and best constructed as shown." Ed � MR. PETER S. P4POVICH, City Hond Consultant: "The total estimated cost of this project ia $867,700. Depeading on • �hether the property is residential, commercial, or acreage. obviously, the Einancing would have to co� bp that use. Zn accordance with a resolutioa the Council passed some year,s ago - fn 1971 - the frontaqe assessment for residentiaZ property was pegqed at $7.50 a front foot, aad if the ccst rata over than, it wovid be 70% of that portion of the cost that would run over that particular � ount of money." � � "The same is true with Co�qnercial pzoperty. That wae $11 a foot plus 7696 if the cost ran over, so taking and apply- ing �sat has been used in the past, the reaidential property works out at $18.20 a front foot and that raises $429,000, or approxfmately half of the total coat. The Conm�rcial property - and there•s lesa of that - will be assessed at $21.70 a front foot. That will ra3se $190,000. The acreage will be assessed at $420 per acre foz the benefit received. That will raise $83,000, and then there a�e services from the street to the property line and that'e pegqed at $145 per service, Mihich will raise another $16,OOb. That will total out appxoxixaately $718,fl00 plus dollars. Substractinq that £rom the $867,700 leaves a balance of $148,761 to be financed. Because in the past when there was anything exceas to be fin- anced, it was apread over general taxes, it's proposed this be spread over general taxes. This wil7. be apread over a 2� yesr period of time, together with the assesaments, and obv3ously, all of the tax base in the city will help pay it. If you divide that $148,000 at 6% that will u�rk out to $12,000 a year on general taxes spread over the entire city. The balance wi11 be, as I indicated, accordinq to the assessment formula, spread over a 2Q year period of time, aad you would have the right to prepay at any year after the assessments have been adopted, w£thout any interest pena2ty. If you don't pay in this psrti- cular year, it will be sent to the County, and be collected each year alonq with your real estate taxes." ' MAYOlt CRSPEAU: "Any questions?" • MR. BiLL REEVES, 1660 We�t FIiqhway 96: Asked how much the Arsenal property wou2d pay toward the improvemettt. Mr. Christoffersen said he had not considered assesainq Arsenal property because most of it is served by their o��m internal �acilities. Mr. Fopovich explained that the Arsenal is Federal � � property and no municipality can assess them. A requeat can be made for a contribution, but you cannot assess them. Be- • cause of that, part of the cost is beinq put on general taxes, If a contribution were to be made by the Federal government, that amount srould then enable the City to lower the general taxes. QUESTION FRDM THE AUDIENCE: re the location of the improve- ment on Highway 10, east of the lake. MR. JAMES BRESKE, 4659 Highway 10: In favor of the improvement. hIIt. GLE1Q BEGGIN, 4519 Lakeshore Place: "Z'm at the place where the main will come acrosa Highway 10. I have tcwo questions. How will the land on the other side of 10 be serviced that's undeveloped now? Are they being assessed as acreage property to the east of my place?" . INit. CHRISTOFFERSEN; "The way that i estimated the asseas- ments for this hearing was the direct £rcnt footage cost as you see it, and set-back fram that 200 feet. This is the practice that has happened in the village previously - drop back 2U0 feet from the property line and charge everything south of that acreage. So, acreage here, and 200 feet on this also, so this • property would be assessed frontage as well as acreage, and the internal portion of this would have to be served by a smaller line that would probably be constructed by the developer, and that goes for this large piece of property here." Ngt. BEGGIN: "Would they be brought out Snelling Avenue or the service (inaudible) Old Highway 10 - under the freeway service?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "Each service, I suspect would be brought off this direction, or this direction. St's very ex- pensive to put these crossinga in and we Yike to do as few ss ' possible. But we wouldn't be putting individual service across." • �R. BEGGIN: "You mentioned you would be uaing the drainaqe ditch as much as possible. I front ott Lakeshore Place and Highway 10. Thexe's a large drop-off drainage ditch in front of my property now. Zf the pipes were to be put through there, you would be looking at reconetruction of the complete drainaqe 4 � ditch. Are we Iooking at (inaudible) people's property or the line going to be brought out on to Sighway ZO and cut throuqh • there?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "I haven't got the surveys on this particular thing as far as the design. A� I mentioned before, we drew the most economical construction we could. As problema get �re difficult, it may be a fact that we may have to be out in 10 to put part of the watermain in. We will attempt to stay off the highway itaelf." MR. BEGGIN: "Z'm lookinq at approximately 200 feet there, and an asseasment of $3,000, and I'm perfectly satisfied with my own well on the property now. There are all kinds of springs. No problem for people on our strip to have their own well and have perfectly adequate water. So my last question is, what prompted the proposal to bring water to Lakeshore Place in the first place? T don't think any of us initiated it and I'm • wondering if it's because of future development or aomeone came in with a plan for future development." MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "There has been some activity ia development in this area, and also been aome questiona about development in this area, also in the industrial park, and as you stark to approve developments of this sort, it's better • to get the watermain facilities in now before everyone is on a well system and you have to put in a watermain system. Un- fortunately you have been in there and you have a well syatem. This is no�r unknown. I'm sure when watermain facilities were put in other parts of the village there were people with (inaudible)." NIIt. BEGGIN: "I'm not interested in going to a$3,000 expense to make the property around me look more advantageoua to some developer coming in. I'm satisfied with what I have. I know of other people by Mounds View High School who had this water come in and stf21 run their wells, so I'm not intereated ' in helping some developer sell some property across the lake." • MAYOR CREPEAU: "The situation is the same, You will not have to hook up," MR. BEGG2N: "I wouldn't be able to afford to." 5 � MR. CHRISTOFE'ERSEN: "In addition to your hooking to the watermain facilities if you're adjacent to them, there's the advantage of having some fire protection with hydrants all � alonq. That's what the dots indicate - fire hydrant locatioas." CpIINC2LMAN CRICHTON: "Fbr your information, I still have my we12, and I live near Mounds View High School." MAYOR CREPEAU: "Any other questions?" • � � COU�tCILMAN HANSON: "I'd like to ask if this would complete the city's need for water." MR. CHRISfiOFFERSEN: "The last trunk system. There would be other needs for minor eystems in this open space. I believe there might be need for an additional tower, but it's pretty well gettinq filled up. Mcst of your developers are puttfng in their own, or they're bai.nq put in ncxv - the smaller systems - so this pretty well campletes the villaqe with the exception of the Arsenal." At the request of Mayor Crepeau, Mr. Christoffersen then explained the funct3.on and advantage of a looping water system. COUNC�LMAN CRiCHTON: "I do understand that we need the � water supply, at least in the area between Hamline and Sne2ling, and south of 96, and there have been some requests to serve the triangle north of 96, Highway 10, 35-W, and I'd 7.fke to question the possibilities of doing part of this rather than all. I tmderstand why it's being proposed, and the overall cost would be cheaper if we do it at once, eut why are you � proposing two connections across 8ighway 107 Why 8o we have to go across by the outlet from Round Lake as well as by Highway 10? We have a looping without that." MR. CHI2TSTOFFERSEN: "Here and here. That pmvides a loop around this piece." COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "If we knock off the soathern con- • nection, then you have a loop anyway you want to l�k at it. Jtist drop that southern connection." E� :� MR. CffitISTOFFERSEN: "This southern connectiott connects to a 12 inch - the larger trunk line - and the 12 inch follows this pattern. This could possibly be dropped off and carry • the 12 iach along this (inaudible)." COUNCILMAN CRICFPrON: "One thing to consider - the aouthern connection is not easential to the looping. The next is the line along 10 from the southern connection to the northern connection. That will serviae, I would guess, abont 30 lots • total from 96 down to al�st 698 - that line will serve about 30 lots depending on how the southern end developa. Preswriably that would be pretty expensive for the lots there. I don't believe that line is essential to the looping either." MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "If you take too many out you qet larger loops. You have a series of loopinq systems. You • could make one loop around trie entire system, but you need connecting loops. The (inaudible) report did not have this loop in. No, I guess it came around from thia direction and • didn't aerve here because this went into New Brighton, so si�ce this became a part of the village it made sense to bring this loop around this side. If, for instance, we have a major point to feed from {inaudible) this area to the south is only fed by one line coming up New Brighton Road. There's quite a large azea there, and thia would also feed back into this • area (inaudible). I'd have to check out (inaudible) factors - pressure loases through there. I would suspect this piece of line could be left out completely (inaudible) damaging the system. I would think this would be an advantage then to have this across here." • COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "it would be more advantageous is that other leg is left out." MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "t�ihat i attempted to do is put a complete system on the board, and then as you take something out you have to look at somethiag else, and it's kind of hard to put all the alternatives (inaudible)." • COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "I'd like to look at that posai- bi2ity of leaving out that particular leg - particularly if I hear tonight that the people along there are not overly anxious for it. We have only heard one say he's not parti- cularly anxious for it." 9 ❑ in.„ "We woulcl have to keep this portion • COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "Not necessarily. I don't know about your pressure losses, Now you go west throuqh the industrial park and I resiize it's good to feed through the industrial area and you could 2oop up to 96 and across Snelling." � � � • MR. CHI2ISTOFFERSEN: "i'd �ave to chec3c the calculations on that," MR. CF3RISTOFFERSEN: COUNC2LMAN CRICATON: "That's worth looking at." COUNCILMAN CREPEAU: "What about the development south of Round Lake? How many lots �uld be platted in this area?" COiA�TCILMAN CRICFPPON: "That could be an appreciable number, and indicate perhaps that part should be left." NIIt. CHRISTOFFERSENe "If this were to be developed, it may he to some advantaqe to (iaaudiblej in the development with a large line ar�d provide (inaudible) service and then back aut. That's a possibility. There's alwaye a passibility of cominq down through a development with a line and putting the mfnor lines out from it, and that's just a matter of (in� audible)." COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "Have we had any requests from the industrial area for water?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN; ��Y've had twa peopie discuss it with me. I don't knaw whether you'd call it a request - not a • formal request, but it has been discussed." MR. ALLEN .TOHNSON, 4529 Lakeshore Places In tavor of the improvement. MRS. DORdTHY MC CLUNG, 4370 North Snelling: Saifl she's the majority owner oE 15 1/2 acres of land which 3s enjoyed • for outdoor sports by everyone in the neighborhood. They ha�e good wells, but think it will be necessary to develop the property when it's assessed. �'-� � MR. LEONARD GRUDNOSI�, 4445 Highway I0: Asked iE the City's water source could supply enough water for the fmprove- ment, and when he was told that the water comes from the St. • Paul system through Roseville, Mr. Grudnoske asked if it might not be more economical ff the city supplied its own water. The opinion of the engineer and bond conaultant was that it would not. MRS. JAMES WINIECKI. 4471 Highway 10: Asked what the • intereat carrying charge would be if the assessments were spread on the tax rolls. Mr, Popovich replied that in recent years it had been 89b but the decision would be made by the Council at the time of the assessment hearing. Mrs. Winiecki further asked if the improvement had beea instituted at the requeat oE the developers in the Snelling Avenue, Highway 96 triangle. Mr. Chriatoffersen said that the original water plans had been • drawn in 1972, but there had recently beea interest from several areas to have it installed. Mrs. aliniecki added that • the developer will be able to collect the cost of the assess- ment when he sells the property. l�IIt. GLEN B�GGIN, 4519 Lakeshore Place: "You're asking us to pay for water of inferior quality. I'm appalled. I had no idea our water came from that system. S'd like to knaw what qualify control check there is in our own (inaudible) • system. T'm i.nterested in the things I read. i teach environ- mental studies and get copies of the reports. I'n not delighted with the city water system that you tell me we're qoing to hook into, Another {inaudfble) you only had to put a ban or stop- use of water once, and look at what you're adding to the storage tank we have now. Z'm not interested in beinq told • I can't use it either. One, what kind of qualify control does Arden 8ills have? Do we have an inspector that inspects our holding tank, and two, what do you foresee as the capacity of the tank we ttaw have? Are we looking at another cost for everybody in the village for a tank as those homes go in those areas?" • I�t. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "There fs a potentisl for a second tank, and there always has been. The system was desigaed under one system and we're not deviatinq from that. When the need occurs, and the demand is there, there will probably have to be another water tank on Red Fox Road. There's already a pumping station there and a tank site. I do not helieve at 0 � this present time there is a need �or that tank. It may develop in the future. The first.qu�estion � as far as . quality - I am not familiar witk►iiow the water superfntendent takes his tests. I'm not sure he ctdes it, bnt ft must be tested in St. Paul." � i�4iS. MC NiESFi: "We do hsve tests, I believe, pexformed at three differeat �ites qn a monthlp 5asis. This is re- quised by state law, i�t� used ta have a testing laboratQry, aad now I don't know i# it's the Department af 8ealth, but there's an agency tiiat tests it an a monthTy basis.'" MAYOR CREPEAU: "iahat year did the water s�rstem go in, and that's �rhen we piailned for thfs as we11 as t�e second. �ater tower. Wh�t year wa� t3xat2"'' • MRS. MC AIIESH: "i thittk i967 when-i� went into the industrial axea." � MAYOR CREPEAU: "�hat's the:year �.hey plsriaed for putting up two towers, but only one tiven� up, but the second was con- templated in 1967." COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "The engineer jn8t pointed out that the estimate for serving this area in his proposed method ia • 1972 was $619,000. The present eaeimate is $667,400 which i� an increase of about 4096. That`s in si.x years it's gone up 40%. �� L�9M T� ALfDIEtJCE: Rsked a questioa about the water line frosn the street to the house. MR. JAMES WINIECKI, 4471 HigAway 10: Said he was sp�eaking for his father who owns about 13 acres a2ong Highway 694. Said it would be difEicult for his parents to pay a$S,d00 to $7,OOp assessment. He asked what the city charges for a water hook-up. The answer was $72,50 for the permit charqe vJhich includes the meter. There would also be a plumbing charge. FROM THE AUDIENCE: "What if there's a piece of property that will not benefit by any improvement?" 10 � lJ � � � � � u COF7NCILMAPT CRICiiTON: "I think Mr. Popovich could answer best, but I understand that if there's no benefit, there would be no assessment." MR. POPOVICH: "You vi11 qet notice of another hearing after the project is all done, and, if this matter goes ahead, and then everybody wili know exactly what they're going to be assessed, and if you can come up at the assessment hearinq and show there`s not benefit - and that means a change in the market value of the property, The Supreme Court says that's the test - what was the value of the property hefore, and what is it after. Zf you can show no benefit, we can't assess you." COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "I'm aware, as I mentioned earlier, some or all of this will be desirable, and I have concerns on which parts may not at this time be desirable, and one of those sections is along Highway 10, and as I listen to people talking, it sounds like it was about spl.it as to wanting it ox not, so there's some desire and some desire not. We have one that I've hear� spoken in favor of having any water supply north o£ 36. Do we know if there are any others that have asked Eor water up there? I'm looking at it, saying perhapa we shouldn't do the area north of 96, and perhaps we shouldn't do the area around Round Lake, and put the rest in, and i£ anybody can clarify that better for me I'd appreciate it." MR. LEE ROEBItE, 4355 Highway 10s "About a year and a haZf ago I had well problems so I called the Village Aall and asked what was proposed for water, and T was told the oaly way water would be brought up that section of Highway 10 which, at that time. served about 15 homes, was if it was petitioned. T put in a 200 foot well and I can psamp as much water as everybody here cou].d drink without any problems, and 3 don't anticipate well problems, and I don't see the need for water except for fire hydrants, but if it was put in i prob2hly wouldn't hook up. I'd rather flrink my well water than go to my mother's and drink her City of St. Paul water. You can put a well i.n (inaudible) Jordan vein for $2,000, and in my case that's $4,Op0 cheaper than putting in watez. The averaqe cost per hundred foot over 20 years is $280 a year per hundre8 feet approximately. One other comment is that if we have had price increases of 10�6 a year - and this wouZdn't be done until next summer - are we looking at another increase?" Y�1 � MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "There's money in it for about a year's period." • MR. ROEBXE: "The charge is assessed when the whole thing is done, and if the contractor makes a mistake - as often happens in the construction business - of being 10% or 15% over, do we stand that expense?" l�t. CFIl2ZSTOFFERSEN: "The enqineer's estimate could be � off." MR. ROEB1�: "if it went through, would $18.21 s foot be firm?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: You would have a better idea of the costs if the plans and specs were drawn up and you put it out for bids. Then you can pretty closely tell how my estimate Scompares with the bid. Imake an estunate on construction cost, and increase it ?.5%, and I've been off." • COUNCiLMAN CRICHTON: "I can say his estimates have comfortably (inaudible) contained the situat3on. I would like the engineer to give us the alternatives of the project without the section heading north from 96. I recognize the east- west section along 96 in that triangle would be necessary to • make a loop - but find out how much difference that would be, and how much difference it would be if we did not have the section from there down to there. I realize he can't give us that tonight." MR. CHRISTOFFERSENe "I may be able to." . COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "I quess (inaudible) to believe if water is going to be supplied to the houses around Round Lake if we would do it at the (inaudible) it will end up to be cheaper than if we attempt to do it without that now, and 5 or 10 years it would cost those property owners moxe, and not just because of the cost escalation. Doing it all at once spreads it over more footage and acreage where that • stretch has limited frontage. it's only on one side and no acreage and if it goes in now in the total pot, it would be cheaper." 12 � � MR• CHRI51'OFFEitSEN: "From 96 north, that number is about $121,40o. That other piece oE pipe - my estimate goes Erom 96 clear down to 694, and that's probably a little high. 2 guess I can't take a good shot at tYtat. Maybe half of what shows there or (inau�tfble).�� COUNCILMAN CRICi�fON: '�So, it might be $100,000 for that section." • MR. CHItISTOFFER3EDT: "You may be looking at leaving those two off, off the cuff, about $300,Op0. It certainly - if that is left off now. and like what you sai@, I support it whole- heartedly - iE that's a separate project T v.�ould assume it would cost much �re, The conatruction index hae gone up quite a bit since 1972, and that's primarily off the engineering newsletter index, and thafi's ta3sen throvghout the nation, and a1so, my estimates are baeed on bids that were taken here • locally." • COUNCILMAfi CRICHTON: "My question is not with the con- struction index fiyures going up, but for the {inaudible} but the esca2ation of all costs gaing up. ...." • • � COUNCILMAN AAN30N: ��i think the fact that Mr. Bussard is not here i.ndicates that he wants it. He has �re than one lot." Councilman Hanson then commented on studies he has read indicating that the undexwater supply under the Metropolitan area is �ufficient, and that peopie living in Arden Hills could cont£nue to use their wells, but also have the water systems. COUNCSLMAN CRICHTON: "Perhaps this comea after the public hearing is closed, but I would like to - before we resolve the matter - I would like to get a recalculetfon from the enqineer, dropping out those two sections to see what the affect v,+ou�d be on the per footage cost and acreage cost.�� MAYOR CREPEAIT: �'We could get alternate bids." MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "That would be easy to do. JUst have a total bid and add-on bids, and probably get a more clear story that way." 13 � . • � • � • COLINCII�MP.N WI1dGERTs "Don, will you answer this question again - why does the line hop over 96 to the north side, go along by the trailer side, and hop back again? Is that be- cause there's no through land there?" MR, CIiR2STOFE'ERSEN: "This is difficult land, and i feel more comfortabla coming across and back in the original esti- mate because it costs more money. Under the desiqn conditions, we will try to leave it come on the south side. I might add, by (inaudible) on the north sfde, you're providing fire pro- tection to that trailer court. There are hydranta along there they could perhaps connect to." COVNCILMAN WINGERT: MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: connect to those." "They have them on their well system." "But the Fire Department will not COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "Do you believe i# your design specs call for that section on 96 we'd get a lower bid?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "We'd only cross once. We wouldn't make that crossing. We'd just croas here." COLiNCTLMAN WiNGERT: "$o you might lose that crosaover7" MR: CHItISTOFFERSEN: "Yes." MAYOR CREPEAU: "Is that marshy ground?" MR. CHRTSTOFFERSEN: "It's low ground. T dfdn't take any soil borings though." A ahort discussion followed relating to fire insurance premiums if the rating in the city were lowered. NIIt. GLEN BEGGIN, 4519 Lakeshore Place: "I'd like to know why the spot selected comes acrosa 96 and 10 to join Lakeshore and Old Highway 10 at the corner of my property, and if you were to juat join at the corner of my property and not go south on Old 10, would I be assessed for my entire chunk there, which you can see fs pretty massive frontage?" 14 1 • � MR, CHRISTOFFERSEN: "I can't apeak of how you would be assessed. I can speak of how it would be proposad to the Council. I would suspect that my recommendatiott �uld be for your frontage to be assessed. I guess I didn't catch your £irst question." MR. SEGGIN: "why you came across there," � • • �� • MR. CFiRISTOFFERSENe "Why we came across here rather than closer to the center island between 10 and Lakeshore? It's likely that the Hiqhway Department will not allow us to qo in and open-cut Highway 10 to put in a water service so we will have to jack a pipe under the highway. We're looking for a short place to go to jack pipe." 1�Ilt. BEGGINs "There's a creek just south of there. i4hy couldn't you come through the same area as the creek runs under?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "You mean this little dra3nage channel here? We couldn't put it in that culvert. We have to bury it to keep it from freezing." MR. BEGGIN: "There isn't any water coming through there now. �� MR. CHRISTOFE'ERSENs "But there could be, and it has to be buried to keep it From freezing." MR. BEGGIN: "Is it possible to cross 96 goiag north, and then cross 10 above, if you don't do the southern part?" MR. CHRISTOFFER5ENo "Ts it possible to cross here and here? 2 suppose anything is possi.ble. You're not gaining any benefit by coming this way unless you benefit the Arsenal. They have some buildings here, but they have water aervice to this bu'�lding and it extends to this complex here, so I would question whether they would have any benefit from that, where if you come this way, you do provide some benefit, even thouqh you were opposed to it. There is benefit." 1�II2. BEGGIN: "The Arms Plant is totaily served by its own system now?" MR. CHRISTOFE'ERSEN: "That's what I'm advised." E�� ffit. BEGGIN: "Would it save money by buying water from • them?" • MAYOR CREPEAU: "We tried to buy sewer They proposed $1 a year, but then the cost doubt that this would be more reasonable." � • • service from them. sky-rocketed. I COtAVCILMAN CRICHTON: "On that subject of having our own city well as opposed to buying it from St. Paul. You know Shoreview decided to have its own water supp2y, so I expect that within a year or two we'll have a much better economic reading on what the costs are for a smaller system. So far, I've heard from their city fathers that their water is very hard and they're sorry they didn't soften it, but I think within a year or two we'l1 have a better (inaudible) with a smaller system, There's nothing stopping us from feeda.nq into our own tank. No plana for that, bufi it could be done." MR. JOHN GRUDNOSi�, 4439 Highway 10: Asked the approxi- mate amount of a monthly water bill. In favor of the improve- ment. MR. GRUDNOSICE: "Where would you start ffrst - or where would you like to start first?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "If the entire project were undertaken, i believe we would leave that decision up to the contractor." MAYOR CREPEAU: "But you would have a deadline." � • MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "We would have a deadline. I would suspect that he could install all of the water facilitiea thfs year. He may not be able to accomplish all the restoration this year, but I would hope he could get all the watermain in, Weather plays a big part of it." COUNCILMAN CRSCATON: "It appears that the line south of Round Lake - the east-west section down there - goes across what is today existing private property that we would have to acquire the right-of-way for that line as we would for the east-west section there under Highway 96. As I understand the second section, a11 of that area ia currently being planned for development - a developer is coming in and asking, so a 16 street will be put in, but the one • are no present plans for developing in a cost of acquisition?" u � south of Round Lake - there that area. Have you figured MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "Not an excesaive Cost. There is a contingency cost that would cover normal things, but nothing excessive." CoUNCTLMnN CRICHTON: "If that line would go through property that is not being planned for develop�nt, the cost might be pretty high.�� FROM TI� AUDIENCE: "Has aaybody told my dad about this - about qoinq across the land?" NtAYOR CREPEAU: "Did he get one of these notices?" FROM T8E AUDIENCE: "He's 67 and I don't imagine he pays too much attention." MAYOR CREPFAUs "Maybe you better tell him about it." MR. � � � �� J ."Why don't you run it alonq the freeway?" MR. CHRIS'rOFFERSEN: "It could be. I would venture to say you would get more benefit out of the line if it were in here somewhere and if this pzoperty (Inaudiblej I believe there is some activity there and I haven't seen anything on it, but I'm sure that we'd try to coordinate our efforts with that activity." MAYOR CREPEAUz "So maybe the line xrould be moved north if Mr. Bussard is going to develop his propexty, and if Mr. wi.niecki is going to sell one lot to pay the $7,000 assessment maybe he'd want some water service to that lot, so it behooves you to talk to dad about it. Even if he's 67 I think he'd understand you." FROM TI� AUDIENCE: "How do you make a decision? it seems as if there's some controversy along Highway 10, and I think there are some of us that are somewhat neutral. I don't need water, but I'd Iike to have a fire hydrant in £ront of my house. I'm not opposed to it, and I'm not for it, if that makes any sense. I s�ou].d like to see a poll. Maybe that could be taken where people could be opposed or neutral oz for, so you could make some decfsion. 8ow do you make decisions like this?" 19 • • � � � MAYOR CREPEAU: "Very carefully. We have five Councilmen, one of whom is not here this evening, so before you leave, I would prefer that we defer making a decision to give Dr. Woodbura a chance to vote on it. He was called out of the city so I would like this Council to wait until Dr. Woodburn is able to vote on this problem, and we don't have to vote on it for six months, so another day won't hurt, so if you folks are for the project, raise your hands." COUNCILMAN WINGERT: "One of the things I think makes sense - I think this Council is going to eventnally put some water in somewhere. 2 think this is a reasonable assumption because there are enouqh petitions aad land owners who are developera. 5ome- thing will go in. I think that's probably a reasonable (inaudi- ble) at this point. We're not in the business of aelling water. I don't think we're txying to sell these fox-holes in the ground in front of their property if they don't want it. My suggestioa is this - that if we're to take an overall vote tonight on who wants it and who doesn't on this whole project, what we'll find out is not qoing to be what we want to know. There are peop2e who want it and people who don't. Can we break this up by segments? I'd like to know, by the residents of Highway 10 on the esat side of Round Lake how many people are here from that area and how do you yourselves break out, because that will help me. I think that's an area that'e an issue. If there are other issuea that are equally (inaudible) like along 96 between Hamline and Hiqhway 10, we haven't heard from signif3cantly (inaudible) I heard one person.'� F'ROM THE AUDIENCE: "='m the only one that lives there." � . F'ROM THE AtTDIENCE: "If these developers went water, let them pay for it." MAYOR CREPEAU: "They do." FRDM THE AUDIBNCE: "They won't pay any more than I do, and I don't want it, and you're talking about over $20,000 assess- ment." N(AYOR CREPEAU: "You got a big lot." FROM THE AUDIENCE: "The assessment will be over $20,000." � • MAYOR CREPEAII: "How many acres do you have?" FROM TF� AUDIENCE: "Five acres." • COUNC=LMAN CRICHTON: "If we had some hand count based on what section -�� MR. HERB KING, 1504 Highway 96x "We have a wonderful well so I don't need the water either, but that's just how I feel. There are only about four homea down along here, arid we just put in a waell two years ago." MR. EARL LEFTIS, 1524 8ighway 96: "I 13ve next �or to Herb . Kinq, and next door to you. We have seven and a half acrea, and there's t�o way we can afford that assessment, and we can't (in- audible) the land so we really don't want it. So, is there any option not to qo along 96?" FROM THE AUDIENCE: "I'm right next door to the Town Ha11." � • � MR. C�ISTOFFERSEN: "That's right here, atsd that's a large lot. This is your lot here. Well, we looked at thia for (inaudible). This is schematic more than design. I thouqht about maybe brinqiag it down - the watermain - down this line here, but that wouldn't do you any qood either. You have a two sided frontage there and I doa't ksaow how the back-yazd of these lots develop with adjacent lots." E'1bDM THE AUDIENCE: "Our lot is basically undevelopable. We have the slough in back, and the front isn't equslZy divided into sub-lots and we have no in�erest i.n water. We feel we're being squeezed out by developers - you know, they're taking away our property in the back and everythinq else." MR. CIiRISTOFFERSEN: "That's a very important connection alonq 96 and I don't know sight off hand how we would get around that one." FROM THE AUDIENCE: "If the developers want the water and . that bottom connection. and then going up Snelling, why do you have to go from Snelling to gamline alonq 96?" 19 • MR. CHRSSTOFFERSEN: "This ties this water system in with the other in complete larg� loops as I was tellinq you, and this is just a trunk line system. The developers, ae they • develop, will have to put in interioz water systems. They'll have to put in the six inch linas. These are just the larqe trunk lines to get the water to an area.�� FROM THE At1DIENCE: "So we're paying so this property here can be developed, and this by Round Lake can be developed." NIli. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "Everybody pays as they go, I guess. When this watermain was put in it was assessed, and I don't recall how it was assessed, but this was put in alonq here and . I believe that was prior to any thought of constructing here. At least, I wasn't aware of Pemtom beinq interested at the time, but this was put in, and this property was assesaed frontage and it had acreage assessed back into here. We didn't go any farther becauae we thought the next one would come on this side." COUNCILMAN CRICFiTON: "But it's possible to drop the (in- audible) from Hamline to Snelling along Highway 96 and enlarge your east-west liae at the bottom that's now figured at 8 inches, make that 12 inch. That wauld give you the ability fio service • the entire area except the lots fronting on 96 between the City Hall and Snelling." � COUNCILMAN wINGERT: "That kills the looping." Nffi. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "We can get through Pemtom because this fs eight inch construction to here. This property here - there's development occurring on this praperty, and thia pzopesty. There isn't any plan for this, we're kind of working on a lay-out, but nothing definite. I would suspect this could be brought through. I haven't checked (inaudible) hydraulic (inaudible) you could eubstitu@e a 12." � COiJNCILMAN CRICE�ON: "I don't belieue that would isolate any atubs." • COUNCILMAN W2NGERT: "That would be a long, cold day where on a single project you could put the line in between Snelling and Hamline. It would never go in unless it went in with a major project becauae the cost would be really tough to bear." 20 • �� , J COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "Thet's the same thought along the ease side of Round Lake. There is one existing home west of Snelling on 96 between this and 8ighway 10. Is the owner of that property here?" FROM TiiE A�IENCE: "That's my place, and Z sure don't want it." FROM THE AUDIENCE: "What are you propoeinq there now? Eliminate from Hamline to Snellinq, or come to the Village Hall and cut through?" COUNCILMAN CRICHTON: "My thought was not to connect Hamline to Snelling at all." FROM TSE AUDIENCE: "How would you service the propertp from the Village Hall to 8amline? COUNCILMAN WINGERT: "You couldn't 2oop it, but you could serve it." FROM TE� AUDIENCE: "I think the problem with some property ownets on the footaqe - they're taking the brun� of the cost. • You take the industrial area along 35. Do thoae people really pay in proportion to their using the water in comparison to • people on 8ighway 10 or 96? They'll get the use of the water, but they have to stand the burden of $20 a foot. The people (inaudible} iaterior don't pay ariything near that for Che foot- age. The contractor charges them whatever it is to bring in a six inch line, and we've stood the cost of bringing in the water and couldn't something be done on a development basis to put that in the cost of the land and let those that benefit pay equally?" � � OOUNCILMAN CRICFP!'ON: "That would be looked at, at the time of the assessment hearing, Commercial property does pay a higher rate per from foot accordinq to what we have done in the past." MR. E?1�lER CMIEL, 4549 Lakeshore Place: "As I look at it, Lakeshore Place has to be included definitely for a 2oop." MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "This is the ultimaee plan for a lay- out. Whether it has to be included or not depends on what else will be included or not." `�l e • � MR. CMIEL: "When you talked about eliminating the lower part on Highway 10, oz possibly the northern part - north of 96 - what I'm saying is, Lakeshore Place, attyway you look at it, has to stap in there for a loop, is that right?" I�+IIt. CHItISTOFFERSEN: "If you want a looping system, and I recommend a loopfag system." FROM TF� AUDIENCE: "I'm talking about the induatrial area on the west side of the lake." MR. CHRTSTOFFERSEN: "I don't know where else we would go." • FROM T'HE AUDIENCE: "Because I have a new well, and S'm nOt lnterested either. I'm wondering about my mother that lives right on the corner. It seems like it eliminates her. My lot is the last lot - the last one. Does that eliminate har?" MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "I don't think so. She would get service. I dbn't know how much would be frontage for her, but she vueuld get serv3ce." MAYOR CREPEAU: "All those in favor of Lakeshore - just • the top. A11 those that live in this area, how many are for the project?" � ..... 1 in favor, 4 neutral, 3 opposed MAYOR CItEPEAU: "Now, let's take the lower leg." . . . . . 2 in favor� 5 neutral► 3 opposed . . . . . LJ MR. EARL LEWIS, 1524 West Highway 96: "I always thought this was (3naudfble) for us to have water in. Maybe we do get rid of the rust besides having the well fixed every once in a while." MAYOR CREPEAU: "You'd like to have water?" • MR. LEWIS: "Yes." MAYOR CREPEAUz "I suppose we mijit as well circle Round Lake. From here - around here." 22 e � � • • � . . . . . 1 in favort 1 neutralt none opposed . . . . . MAYOR CREPEAU: "Let's go north aronnd the trailer park." • . . . . 3 in favor� 1 neutralt none opposed . . . . . MAYOR CREPEAU: "Now let's take the Ieg across Highway 96 from the intersection - that's from Siqhway 10 to Snellinq." -.... noae in favort none neutralt 1 opposed ... MAYOR CREPSAU: "Now froar Snelling to 8amline." . . . . . 1 in favorr 1 neutralt 2 opposed . . . . . MAYOR CREPEAU: "Now for Snelling Avenue." . . . . . 1 in favort none neutrali 3 opposed . . . . . MR. JOi�] MC CLUNG, 4329 North Snellinq: I'm one of the crooked developers down there. Some way, forced into it. I had talked to Don Christoffersen and some other people, Somehow i hope that water can get into the 20 acres that I own. I don't know that it has fio get in there via Snelling Avenue. I just don't have that expertise, aad T don't know that any other clear-cut method has been recommended, so, so far as whether it comes down Snelling or not, I'm goinq to get socked with enough assessments, and I would juat as soon not see my neighbora get it at all. Maybe that Snelling Anenue ists't necessary at all, For me, and Dietrich to the south of ine, maybe there's some other way of doing it." FROM TI� AUDIENCE: "I was under the i.mpression that water cou2d be taken in there without a dhole li.ne qoing on Snelling." � MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "When I dd�scussed this with you, I said if this were to develop, there perhaps could be some water lines brought in to serve just this area, but then you stiil have to reinforce this. As this area continuea to grow you need these • lines ar�d it's better to get them now while the property is in a raw state then when it's developed, and there you go - you got your sewer and water and storm sewer and you're tearing it up each ti.me." 23 MR. MC CLUNG: "But it wonldn't be nec�ssary for my property and Dietrich's to the south of ine." � MR. CHRISTOFFERSEN: "Z haven't checked out what kind of pressure you could qet down there with one sinqle feed. But you have just one single feed, and that bothers me a littie with an B inch pipe, but I did tell you that's a possibility, but you look at the overall picture and you qet questions aliout (in- audible) and you begin to wonder whether or not you shouldn't be recomnending the entire system rather than leYting (inaud3ble)," COVNCILMAN CR2CHTON: "If we do appieve do3ng this, or most of it, or what have you, can you give us any estimate as we rc�ve ahead about when water would be ava3lable to some of these pro- perties - next fall or the following �pring?" MR. CHItIBTOFFERSTsN: "I would think by next fall if we start right away, It's the conttactor's option how he starts, but we like to make a connection point and €lush it and make it active as we go along, That's the fa11 0£ 1978," MAYOR CREPEAU: "And the assessments w�ould probably be levied in 1979, payable in 1980." � MR. POPOVICIi: "Unle$s it was sufficiently far alonq to do it in fall, but that's problematical." MAYOR CREPEAU: "Any other questions? If there are none, then I declare the public hesring closed." The Counc3l determined to take the matter uxidex advisement, deferring action to the Council meeting of February 27, 1978. . . . . . The hearing was closed at 10:00 p.m. . . . . . Cy�� '��.-i��i'� �'�/�L' � �� '�au�+,i�r � �`� � � , �_z_�i;-< «,� �� aa