HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-12-07-WS
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Approved: January 14, 2008
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
JUNE 12, 2007
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Stan Harpstead called to order the City
Council Work Session meeting at 8:54 p.m.
Present:
Mayor Stan Harpstead, Council members David McClung, David Grant,
and Fran Holmes.
Absent:
Councilmember Brenda Holden
Also present: City Administrator, Michelle Wolfe; Community Development Director,
Karen Barton, City Planner James Lehnhoff
Others present: Stacie Kvilvang, Ehlers and Associates; Rick Collins, Gen McJilton and
Eric Anderson, Ryan Companies; Bruce Chamberlain and Chuck Evans, HKGi .
DISCUSSION OF TCAAP CONCEPT PLAN
Mayor Harpstead stated that this meeting was scheduled to allow for time to share some thoughts
between the City Council, developer, and HKGi (planning consultants.) He noted that the City
Council needs to have input into the process, and there is a need to make sure Council input gets
captured. He stated that it is important to guard against reacting to things we want to hear. He
indicated that he has a sense that the Council would like to see more single family homes
included. Councilmember Grant agreed that was an accurate assessment. Ms. McJilton noted
that the current plan has 200 single family units. Mayor Harpstead stated that he thought the base
was 250 homes; he wondered what the plan would look like with 300-350.
In was discussed that the overall the plan includes an estimated 2000-2500 units or housing for
approximately 5000 residents. Mayor Harpstead stated that there should be a discussion
regarding density. He noted that it is important to compare apples-to-apples, to be clear on what
the denominator is. He asked the Council, if single family units increase, what should decrease?
Councilmember Holmes stated that the high density areas could go up in height to add density
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION-June 12,2007
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Councilmember McClung indicated that he wants the site used during the day, to have businesses
and different types of uses. Spreading out traffic patterns may mitigate access issues.
and free area for more single family. Councilmember Grant stated his preference is for owner-
occupies housing, and he'd like to see a decrease in the number of apartments. Mayor Harpstead
said that he's comfortable with the current level. Councilmember McClung stated he would
decrease office showroom; he added that he is fine with adding floors to condominiums. Mayor
Harpstead stated that as a Council, lower density is preferred. A total 5000 residents is high for
the Council's comfort level, but there is little concern with an estimated 7500 workers.
Mayor Harpstead asked, do we need to consciously try to capture certain kinds of homes in the
plan? He noted that senior housing is important, but he senses that many seniors desire to
downsize, not necessarily move into rentals or condominiums. Councilmember McClung
requested discussion regarding different types and styles of housing; he'd like to see variety.
Mayor Harpstead asked about the ability to intermingle housing types and styles and have less
segregation. Mr. Chamberlain suggested one possibility is to design smaller clusters of types.
Mayor Harpstead said he'd like to see some high value homes, with values near $800,000.
Councilmember McClung stated that he does not like the mansion homes - they are too imposing
and large. Mayor Harpstead indicated that we should make sure that with large homes, there are
lots to support them. He would like to see larger lot footprints for larger homes. He said he'd
also like to see some homes that can be affordable for young families.
The next topic discussed was building elevation. Councilmember Holmes stated that she doesn't
have concerns with height. Councilmember McClung stated he was comfortable with 5-8 stories
for corporate, 4-6 stories for high density housing, with a trade-off for more greenspace. Mayor
Harpstead noted that in an earlier discussion, Councilmember Holden had indicated comfort with
3-5 stories. He noted his own comfort level with 6-8 stories for commercial (more 6 than 8) and
3-4 for residential (but less on the south end.) Councilmember Grant stated he'd be comfortable
with 6-7 stories for office along 35W, 3-4 for residential (with a limited amount of 5 story if it
helps maintain green). He further stated that overall, the plan is too dense and he'd like to take
out some office showroom and high density housing.
Ms. McJilton stated that they don't want to overwhelm the Highway 96 area with too much
height. She noted that if you go over three floors in height, you need structured parking, which
could become uneconomical.
The next topic discussed was parking. Mayor Harpstead stated that he likes two-level parking
similar to Centennial Lakes. He supports the goal of limiting the area of asphalt. Mr. Collins
noted that in the current concept plan, it is anticipated that there will be approximately 1500
asphalt spaces, 10,000-12,000 above grade, and 22,000-25,000 structured parking.
Mayor Harpstead stated that he would like to see two sets of design standards developed. He
believes the Council needs to take time to do both and balance them. He would like to see an
emphasis on brick and stone, and other materials that stand the test of time. He asked the
Council ifthey have any other comments.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION-June 12, 2007
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Councilmember McClung said that he wants to review the information and think about it some
more.
Councilmember Grant stated that he has heard RRLD characterized as "land developers" vs.
future builders. Mr. Collins responded that Ryan Companies is a construction development
company. They are not typically land developers unless they are part of a mixed-use project. He
stated that with regards to TCAAP, Ryan would likely build corporate office, hotel, and office
showroom. They would likely sell some of the property for residential. Councilmember Grant
recalled that Collin Barr (Ryan Companies) had previously indicated that Ryan would get another
residential partner. He asked what the current plan is. Mr. Collins responded that they think the
residential numbers they are talking about be more than one housing developer would build, plus
there would be some specialties for certain types of housing. To provide a wide spectrum of
housing, they would have to look at many residential developers. At this time they don't expect
to take on a residential partner. Councilmember Grant asked if you use multiple developers,
could you build housing faster. Mr. Collins stated not faster than the market, but that with a
variety of builders, you can build a variety of product at the same time. Mr. Collins noted that he
expects, before closing, that they may bring on a capital partner, but in order to do that, they need
a concept plan and financial pro forma. Councilmember Grant asked ifRRLD will sell the land
to Ryan or ifRRLD will be the development entity. Mr. Collins responded that Ryan will always
be backing RRLD.
Mayor Harpstead asked for discussion regarding "big box" development. He stated he has a bias
against big boxes. Councilmember Holmes said she has no bias against big box.
Councilmember Grant stated he has a little bit of bias against, and he prefers medium box
development, but he wants to hear proposals. He noted that he thinks of Best Buy as a medium
box. Mr. Collins stated that they really need a mixture. Big box brings in the traffic to support
the medium box. Mayor Harpstead said he could envision a Target, Best Buy, and a grocery
store. Ms. McJilton indicated that Roseville is over capacity, so there is interest in this market.
There is more demand then capacity. Demographics are a significant factor. Retailers know
where they want to be. Mr. Collins stated that a retailer like Target would be very concerned'
about County Road H and would not sign on until construction is underway to improve access to
the site. Councilmember Grant indicated that Target provides a wide range of products, and so
he thinks it makes sense. He stated that he doesn't know that he could see two big boxes. Mr.
Collins said that they are preliminarily considering Target and a home improvement store.
Councilmember McClung said that he thinks we have the demographics to support interesting
stores. Mr. Collins noted that Edina is about the only place that can really support high, high end
retailers. Councilmember Homes stated that she has a prejudice against anything above retail;
she doesn't want to see that in the development. Mr. Collins said if anything they would want to
use it sparingly, since it is very difficult to lease.
Councilmember McClung stated that there is a need to have discussions like this more often.
Mr. Collins indicated Ryan's interest and willingness. Councilmember Grant noted that the plan
will change over time.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION-June 12, 2007
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Mayor Harpstead recalled that there is a need to schedule a meeting with the National Guard. All
agreed that there needs to be progress on a new name for TCAAP.
/MfA-
Noah A. Simon
Deputy Clerk
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Stan Harpstead adjourned the Work Session at 9:55 p.m.
1 IMetro-inet.us lardenhills \Admin ICouncillMinutesl Worksession \2007\06-12-07 #2 Draft. doc