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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-02-07 City Council Planning Commission TCAAP Meeting Minutes ~ ~~HILLS Approved: January 14, 2008 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA TCAAP CITY COUNCIL/PLANNNIG COMMISSION WORK SESSION JULY 2, 2007 ATTENDEES Stan Harpstead Dave McClung David Grant Brenda Holden Dave Sand Andy Holewa Elizabeth Modesette Roberta Thompson Janet Stodola Clayton Larson Michelle Wolfe Karen Barton James Lehnhoff Bruce Chamberlain Jeff McMenimen Tom Whitlock Rick Collins Gen McJilton Mayor/City Council City Council City Council City Council Planning Commission Planning Commission Planning Commission Planning Commission Planning Commission Planning Commission City of Arden Hills City of Arden Hills City of Arden Hills HKGi HKGi DFA RRLD RRLD ABSENT Clayton Zimmerman Fran Holmes Planning Commission City Council REVIEW OF MDAG MEETING COMMENTS Bruce briefly reviewed the general comments received from the MDAG meeting held on June 28th: a. The plan for TCAAP should incorporate flexibility to respond to market conditions over the time period of development regarding lot sizes, density and housing types. b. Does it make sense to encourage more single family development and less attached housing? c. What constitutes affordable housing? ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC WORK SESSION -JULY 2,2007 2 REVIEW AND DlCUSSION OF PRELIMINARY CONCEPTS FOR THE PARKS. TRAILS. AND OPEN SPACES 1. Tom Whitlock (DF A) presented preliminary concepts for the parks and open spaces represented in the composite plan, including the village green, the central open space, and the neighborhood parks. 2. The concepts incorporate the following characteristics received from the visual listening exerCIse: a. Blend the natural and built environments b. Natural character c. Connectivity d. Variety e. Provide at least one major gathering space for the community f. Integrate open space with stormwater and infiltration systems 3. Village Green. The village green, located between higher density residential housing uses and a potential civic use, incorporates the following elements: a. Focal element (water feature and/or public art) b. More manicured landscape in the center median/park/plaza c. Diagonal parking around the park/plaza d. 25' setbacks with landscaping for the residential units e. 16' sidewalks to accommodate multi-use and fire access f. Less manicured green space north ofthe park/plaza space g. Rain gardens/stormwater infiltration areas h. Lookout at the north end of the village green 4. CC/PC comments on the village green: a. Brenda - concem about the retaining wall height (2 feet) and the need for diagonal parking. b. Tom W. - explained that the diagonal parking is envisioned for visitor parking and event parking, similar to Excelsior and Grand. c. Mayor - concern about snow removal and storage - design should accommodate. d. Brenda - what is a plaza? e. Tom - a plaza is a hard surfaced gathering area for the community, which could provide a place for programmed events or casual gatherings. f. Brenda - how is this different from Excelsior and Grand's village green? g. Tom - it is similar to Excelsior and Grand but wider. Central median is approx. 80'wide. The areas to the north with no street are approx. 160' wide with 25' setbacks for residential buildings. h. Liz - will the retaining wall become an attraction for skateboard use? 1. Tom - there are many design devices that can be used to discourage skateboard use. J. Dave S. - what is the dimension for the amphitheater? k. Tom - approximately 160' feet wide - but is not designed yet - only a concept at this point. 1. Dave S. - suggests the team see the Branson Landing (Missouri) example of a public amphitheater. It is a popular amenity for that development. m. Andy - is there room for a Farmers Market? n. Tom - yes. It could be located in the village green with streets closed down. ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC WORK SESSION -JULY 2,2007 3 o. Brenda - what are the long term costs associated with maintaining an amphitheater? Is the city prepared to take that on? p. Dave Mc. - concemed about the traffic that may be routed through the lower density residential area. q. Dave S. - could a traffic circle be added to the end of Main Street (County Rd 'R' extension)? r. Dave S. - concem about water courses in times of drought. s. Tom - the waterways could be designed as bioswales or rain gardens in the village green. t. Dave S. - how do you keep the waterways from becoming stagnant? u. Would the ponds be aerated? v. Clay - where would the water come from to support water in the ponds during drought? w. Mayor - could it be Army water? x. Gen - we're still performing engineering studies to answer these and more questions regarding the ponds. Clearly, the development will benefit from the amenity the ponds will provide and attractive ponds will be the goal. y. Concem about the cost of the rain gardens. z. Brenda - what are the tree types being proposed in the village green? aa. Tom - too early in the process yet, but they are envisioned as a combination of shade and omamental trees. bb. Would sound be piped into the village green? cc. Dave Mc - the images show movable furniture. This poses a vandalism/theft of public property problem. dd. Tom - some of the spaces alongside the village green may host outdoor dining. In this case, the private businesses would be responsible for the furnishings. 5. Central Open Space. The large central open space incorporates the following concepts: a. Outdoor amphitheater and plaza at the north end of the park b. Stormwater ponds and infiltration areas c. Multi-use trails d. Sidewalks e. Pedestrian bridge at the upper pond f. Natural pond landscaping treatment g. Open areas - particularly in the central portion of the park h. Lookouts 1. Water feature at the south end of the park 6. CC/PC comments on the central open space: a. Can the road around the central park be a one-way road? Like Lake of the Isles. 7. Neighborhood parks. The neighborhoods parks are roughly 3 acres in size and incorporate the following concepts: a. Play areas for kids b. Rain gardens/stormwater infiltration areas c. Trails d. Open green areas for flexible play 8. MDAG comments on the neighborhood parks: a. Can there be tennis courts and/or ball fields in the neighborhood parks? b. Tom - the park sizes are not large enough to accommodate ball fields, but could accommodate tennis courts and basketball courts. ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC WORK SESSION -JULY 2, 2007 4 c. Tom - our assumption is that the athletic field program would be accommodated in the 75 acre potential future athletic field site. d. Mayor - The future use of that site is not known. e. How about picnic shelters and tables? f. Can there be play areas for teens? g. Dave McClung - not a fan of long rectangular parks. h. What about the central open space for athletic fields? 1. Dave McClung - there are not enough tennis courts, ball fields, soccer fields, etc. in Arden Hills today. Where are all the future children of this development going to play? J. Andy - how many kids do we anticipate living here? Aren't we looking at an older generation of people potentially living here? k. Mayor - make sure there are places for teens to recreate. 9. General comments: a. For the July 19th Open House provide a base plan/concept with options or layers to illustrate a variety of park amenities for people to choose from. REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF COMPOSITE PLAN 10. The Composite Master Plan update was presented as a plan in progress that incorporates comments received from the MDAG, Planning Commission and City Council in meetings held earlier in the month. II. The plan closely resembles the plan presented earlier in the month with the exception of the residential sites on the plan. The new plan illustrates a reduction in the number of housing units to incorporate additional single family lots on the site. This plan is in response to a request from City Council to study a plan with more single family lots. The new plan includes 342 lots (306 of them being detached single family lots) and proposes a greater mix of housing products than earlier plans. The new plan includes the following lots and housing products: a. 73 Large single family lots (approx. 70' x 180') b. 181 Medium single family lots (approx. 55' x 150') c. 52 Small single family lots (approx. 45' x 120') d. 36 Manor home lots (approx. 75' x 150') 12. The updated plan has not yet been studied for financial impacts to the development. This will be studied to better understand the financial implications of reducing the number of housing units and increasing single family lots. 13. CCIPC comments: a. Please show a range of the townhouse, apt. and condo units being proposed on the plans. b. Why not place the large lots on the central park and open space? c. Jeff - the idea was to keep the lowest density homes as far east (away from the noise and air pollution created by the major arterials ofI-35, and Highways 10 and 96) as possible. d. Can the cross sections indicate the topography change and elevations across the site? Including the elevations of the Kame? e. Where is an example of a green street being used in the Twin Cities? f. Bruce - we saw some at Cobblestone in Apple Valley. g. Dave McClung - doesn't like the Manor Home product - would rather do condominiums. ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC WORK SESSION -JULY 2, 2007 5 h. Janet - has a friend in the westem suburbs who lives in a Manor Home. It is very nice and has the feel of a large single family home. 1. The financials are necessary to make decisions about the plan and the density being proposed in the new plan. J. Dave McClung - didn't we ask for 350 single family lots? k. Mayor - we asked for 300 - 350 single family lots. I. Print the plan legend larger. Councilmember Holden asked about replacing office warehouse with housing. Mr. Chamberlain responded that site constraints make that difficult option. Mayor Harpstead voiced the need to reflect current Arden Hills, which is mostly single family, but also the need to add variety. Mr. Chamberlain noted that specific plans will come in later and each will go through an individual review process. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS The Mayor requested an MDA update. He stated that in reviewing the 1998 Comprehensive Plan, he noted the number of single family homes. The Council discussed the need for a fully- developed financial plan. Councilmember Grant stated that he has a pro forma from a few years ago which could just be updated. He stated that we really need more financial information before making a decision. Mayor Harpstead stated that he would like some information on existing lot sizes in Arden Hills. He requested Planner Lehnhoff to provide that information. Councilmember Holden noted several items: . She was offended by a comment in the EDC minutes . She wondered the status of the intersection study . She requested an update regarding televising . She asked if the PTRC is going to do an estimate for maintenance costs . She requested a copy of an updated map of contaminated areas on TCAAP or a new FOSET map and description ofFOSET areas and how they've changed . She asked for a seal coating status . She asked Planner Lehnhoff about McMansion laws, and whether we need to work on something with our City Attorney . She stated that she really wants to see the Government's first estimate and our for cost of clean-up, when they are prepared . She asked how and when we will handle the transfer of the Wildlife Corridor. She would like to know any costs to the City for the transaction, before negotiating an MDA with Ramsey County Councilmember Grant noted that there is a dead tree out in front of City Hall. He asked about the water tower levels, wondering if we need a ban. He requested staff monitor the sign ordinance, especially with multi-tenant locations. He noted he received a copy of a report from ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC WORK SESSION -JULY 2, 2007 6 the maintenance software, and he liked the sample report and the information it included. He asked for an update regarding diseased trees. Some of the council members asked if the address on City Hall can be moved higher, or if there are other options for making the address more visible. It was noted that City employee Dave Winkel is retiring from the Lake Johanna Fire Department. Council indicated a desire to recognize him for his service. Councilmember McClung asked that there be a letter of recognition from the City Council. They discussed that they would like to recognize Arden Hill residents when they retire from the Fire Department. Mayor Harpstead adjourned the work session at 9:30 p.m. ~r- Noah A. Simon Deputy Clerk