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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-12-07-Joint WS ~ ~~HILLS Approved: January 14, 2008 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA TCAAP CITY COUNCIL/PLANNNING COMMISSION/ADVISORY GROUP WORK SESSION JULY 12, 2007 ATTENDEES Stan Harpstead Dave McClung David Grant Brenda Holden Fran Holmes Dave Sand Andy Holewa Clayton Zimmerman Elizabeth Modesette Roberta Thompson Janet Stodola Lyle Salmela Vince Linders Sharon Turgeon Jim Ostlund John Tholen Willie Price Rich Straumann Nancy Dunlap Michelle Wolfe Karen Barton James Lehnoff Bruce Chamberlain Jeff McMenimen Tom Whitlock Damon Farber Gen McJilton Stacie K vilvang Mayor/City Council City Council City Council City Council City Council Planning Commission Planning Commission Planning Commission Planning Commission Planning Commission Planning Commission MDAG MDAG MDAG MDAG MDAG MDAG MDAG/PTRC MDAG City of Arden Hills City of Arden Hills City of Arden Hills HKGi HKGi DFA DFA RRLD Ehlers ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC/ADVISORY GROUP WORK SESSION -JULY 12,2007 2 ABSENT Clayton Larson Chris Ashbach Kent Benscoter Charles Bright Dawn Gustafson Al Hilgers Patrick McLafferty Planning Commission MDAG MDAG MDAG MDAG MDAG MDAG REVIEW OF OPEN HOUSE FORMAT/PRODUCTS AND PURPOSE I. Bruce discussed the proposed format of the open house: Open gallery with drawings at 2 stations will be provided for the composite plan and the parks, trails and open space planning. Brief presentation will be given early during the evening to orient people to the plans/drawings, explain the purpose and format of the open house, etc. Comment cards and post-it notes will be provided to receive public comments/suggestions. 2. Products for the open house were to be reviewed by Jeff and Tom shortly for the groups comments 3. The purpose of the open house is to gain community input on the composite plan and the preliminary parks, trails and open space concepts. REVIEW OF COMPOSITE PLAN/DRAWINGS FOR THE OPEN HOUSE I. Jeff presented the in-progress drawings anticipated to be included at the open house: Composite Land Use Plan (Options A and B) Parks, Trails and Open Space Diagram (Options A and B) Land Use Typology - Residential Uses Land Use Typology - Non Residential Uses Site Cross Sections 2. 2 plan options are still being considered for the open house. Option A represents a master plan that includes 185 single family lots. Option B represents a master plan that includes 306 single family lots. The other land uses are relatively the same between the two options. 3. CC/PC/MDAG Comments: a. Brenda - what is a kame? And where are they located on the plan? b. Jeff - a kame is a geological feature (moraine) that has been created by glacial debris. It is essentially a large hill made up of glacial till. c. Jeff - the kames are located just to the east of the TCAAP redevelopment site. d. Brenda - please include the section lines on the plan. e. Willie - Can a plan be provided that would graphically illustrate the size and scale of the TCAAP project area relative to the rest of Arden Hills? f. Dave Mc - show it relative to an existing neighborhood(s) in Arden Hills. g. Dave S. - Can we illustrate the rest of the designated open space in the TCAAP site (Nat. Guard property)? h. Brenda - that is not public land accessible to the general public. i. Dave S. - illustrate the land designated as open space per the Vento Plan. J. Dave (National Guard) - there are 1,200 acres of the National Guard site at TCAAP designated for open space. ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC/ADVISORY GROUP WORK SESSION -JULY 12,2007 3 k. Dave Mc - Please have a development program board available at the open house to indicate the rest of the land uses. I. Brenda -let's show Option B only. Don't show option A. m. Clay - one option may elicit more comments. n. Dave S. - Option B represents more single family homes - more similar to Arden Hills than Option A. o. Andy - is that the right thing to do with development at TCAAP? Should we be supporting a plan with more single family homes? p. Larry - why did the City Council ask for a plan with more single family homes? Is that what we want at TCAAP? Is that what the market is telling us? q. Mayor - the 1998 comp plan indicated lower densities for the TCAAP property than current plans show. r. Jim - how restrictive is the plan going to be? The market will dictate what gets built. s. Mayor - the plan should not be too restrictive. t. Vince - at the last MDAG mtg there was a desire amongst the MDAG members for the plan to be flexible enough to adapt to market changes. u. Bruce - the current plan represents a general direction for future development with a range of potential densities. Is this OK with the group? v. Liz - absolutely. w. Clay - the market may not make the same choice today as it might in the future. x. David G. - need for a plan that allows sustainable choices. A diverse set ofland uses and densities is more economically sustainable. y. Willie - Can we see a financial model for the proposed development? What is the minimum number of residential units required to make the plan financially feasible? We need to see the financial numbers before we can say how many residential units the plan should have. z. Willie/Vince - can there be a basic financial model presented at the open house? aa. Stacy - Ehlers has been looking at the financial implications of the preliminary master plan. She could review that material tonight. The key is to strike a balance with your development program and land uses. The project financing shouldn't drive the plan. Flexibility is important for the development to be viable economically. bb. Mayor - the council has seen preliminary numbers. The numbers can be worked with to achieve financial capacity for the project. There is some flexibility in the numbers. cc. Dave G. - what is the capacity? How much flexibility is built into the model? dd. Liz - what is !mown now re: the environmental cleanup costs and how does that cost affect the financial projections? ee. Michelle- Site characterization is ongoing. We'll have a better idea of environmental costs at a later date. ff. Is the land transaction affected by the cost of the cleanup? gg. Mayor - the cleanup cost is independent of the $45 million land cost. hh. Vince - is the Anny responsible for cleaning up the site to residential standards? n. Gen - the Anny is responsible to clean up the site to residential standards per the composite plan. JJ. Larry - the !mowledge on the street is that the site will only be cleaned up to commercial standards. kk. Lyle - Would it be appropriate to discuss the different standards of cleanup required at the open house? II. Gen - we're not ready to do that yet. mm. Mayor - are there other rumors on the street that should be addressed? ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC/ADVISORY GROUP WORK SESSION -JULY 12, 2007 4 nn. 00. pp. qq. IT. ss. tt. uu. vv. ww. xx. yy. ZZ. aaa. bbb. ccc. ddd. eee. fff. ggg. hhh. 111. JJJ. kkk. Ill. mmm. Fran - people want to !mow if their taxes are going to go up due to development at TCAAP. Bruce - we tried to address this concem in the Q and A newsletter that went out in April. Liz - people may get more concerned about these issues as the plan gets closer to gaining approval. Larry - some in the community think the land should be divided up and sold to developers. Mayor - a major fear to that idea is that the site could not get cleaned up to residential standards. Jim - sees the development at TCAAP as one that should provide a positive impact to taxpayers. Willie - would like to see (in layman's terms) the financial model for development at TCAAP. Lyle - is involved in the discussions about environmental clean up and suffice it to say that the situation is manageable. Clay - would also like to see a simple financial model - existing vs. proposed development. Bruce - we will work with Ehlers and City Staff to get some basic information out to the public. Dave S. - can we see some development flexibility? A time frame for development? A cleanup time frame? Dave S. - zoning can provide some flexibility to market conditions. Maybe the condo market will rebound. The plan should allow to make adjustments to accommodate changes. Larry - would hate to see the plan become so single family oriented it becomes unattractive to young people. Dave G./Dave Mc - the single family residential program is still a small percentage of the total residential units. Vince - should we eliminate the lot lines on the plan for the open house? Jeff - that may be too confusing for people to grasp. The lot lines help understand scale relationships better. Fran - we shouldn't show the Hwy 10/96 configuration on the plan - it is unresolved. Dave S. - disagrees. There must be some entrance to the TCAAP development offHwy 10. Fran - agrees the access off 10 is needed but the rest of the design is up in the air. Mayor - the design shown on the plan is still the best option. It would be disingenuous to hide it. It should stay on the plan. Dave Mc - either way is a problem (showing the hwy 10/96 interchange and not showing it) Willie - as a resident, would rather see more information than less in order to make an informed decision. Dave Mc - that interchange is still a controversy. Fran - is concemed the trails have not been discussed. We should not show a design element (trails) before it has been discussed. Dave S. - Let's focus on the big picture items and not let the forest get lost in the trees. We've been working on this plan for 20 years now and would hate to see us lose our vision and momentum for the planning over trails. Dave S. what is going on with the Athletic Fields? What is the parcel shape? What is the Guard's role in it's development? ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC/ADVISORY GROUP WORK SESSION -JULY 12,2007 5 nnn. 000. ppp. qqq. rrr. sss. ttt. Utili. vvv. www. xxx. yyy. zzz. aaaa. bbbb. cccc. dddd. eeee. ffff. gggg. hhhh. 1111. JJJJ. kl<kl<. 1lI1. Mayor - there is not the possibility for a land swap of the fields. The parcel shape as shown on the plans is set. The Army will likely allow access across their property from Cty rd. '1'. The use of the property is undecided yet. Liz - the connnunity is unaware of this information. Brenda - public use of the land is part of the agreement between the City and the Army. Bruce - perhaps the information the mayor just spoke of could be made available to the public. Jim - concern about the civic land use on the plan. Should it be on the plan? Civic uses cost and offer little in financial retum. Dave G. it is land earmarked for future civic use but the specific use is to be determined. Jim - it's a valuable piece ofland where it is located. Jeff - our discussions to date have been in regards to a library use on that site. Ifthe county builds a library at TCAAP they prefer that site due to it's proximity to the Wildlife Corridor. The program for the library may also include a museum component. Fran - still concemed about the trails and the costs associated with them. Mayor - How does the plan compare in length of trails per population compared to the existing trail system in Arden Hills? Damon Farber - the Map is a diagram illustrating the concept of trail connections and not necessarily a plan at this point. Dave Mc -It is not a construction blueprint. Willie - Can we connnit to a certaian amount of trails? Damon - we don't want to get too specific yet. Willie - wants to know that the City will commit to a certain amount of trails as part of the development. Jeff - at the April open house, the public expressed a great desire for trails and connectivity to other parts of Arden Hills. Bruce - the Parks, Trails and Open Space Plan prepred for the City of Arden Hills in 2002 included a survey from citizens in the community. The survey indicated a great desire for trials and passive open space with a relative satisfaction for the existing active park amenities. Fran - can we pay for and maintain these trails? Dave G. We don't have the numbers on anything at this point. Andy - we should show the trails plan at the open house next week - it illustrates a VISIOn. Dave Mc - can the trails be labeled "proposed trails" Bruce - everything is proposed at this point. Jeff - we will add the existing city parks and trails to the regional context map. Greg - the City of Arden hills has 8.6 miles of trails today. Jeff - the current TCAAP plan includes approximately 5-6 miles of trails. REVIEW OF PARKS/TRAILS AND OPEN SPACEIDRAWINGS FOR THE OPEN HOUSE 1. Tom Whitlock (DF A) presented preliminary concepts for the parks and open spaces represented in the composite plan, including the village green, the central open space, and the neighborhood parks. 2. The concepts incorporate the following characteristics received from the visual listening exerCIse: a. Blend the natural and built environments ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC/ADVISORY GROUP WORK SESSION -JULY 12,2007 6 b. Natural character c. Connectivity d. Variety e. Provide at least one major gathering space for the community f. Integrate open space with stormwater and infiltration systems 3. Village Green. The village green, located between higher density residential housing uses and a potential civic use, incorporates the following elements: a. Focal element (water feature and/or public art) b. More manicured landscape in the center median/park/plaza c. Diagonal parking around the park/plaza d. 25' setbacks with landscaping for the residential units e. 16' sidewalks to accommodate multi-use and fIre access f. Less manicured green space north of the park/plaza space g. Raingardens/stormwater infiltration areas h. Lookout at the north end of the village green 4. Central Open Space. The large central open space incorporates the following concepts: a. Outdoor amphitheater and plaza at the north end of the park b. Stormwater ponds and infiltration areas c. Multi-use trails d. Sidewalks e. Pedestrian bridge at the upper pond f. Natural pond landscaping treatment g. Open areas - particularly in the central portion of the park h. Lookouts 1. Water feature at the south end of the park J. Putt-Putt course k. Tennis court 5. Neighborhood parks. The neighborhoods parks are roughly 3 acres in size and incorporate the following concepts: a. Play areas for kids b. Rain gardens/stormwater infiltration areas c. Trails d. Open green areas for flexible play e. Basket ball court f. Tennis court g. Picnic areas and shelters h. Seating and signage 6. CC/PC/MDAG comments: a. Jim Tholen - concem about law enforcement access to the parks. b. Damon - there is access from the road adj acent to the central open space and sidewalk connections in two places from the neighborhood. c. Damon residences adjacent to the neighborhood parks will help monitor the safety in the parks - "eyes on the park" d. Dave - can we see a pictorial comparison of the proposed parks to the existing parks in Arden Hills? ARDEN HILLS TCAAP CC/PC/ADVISORY GROUP WORK SESSION -JULY 12,2007 7 e. Brenda - was expecting to see an overlay system to show amenity options. f. Tom - overlays are difficult to use in an open house situation so we have decided to utilize the comment card/questionnaire to elicit public comment on desired park amenities. g. Dave S. - can the drawings be labeled "concept" rather than plan? h. Can the roadway around the park be a one-way road? Wouldn't that be safer? 1. Bruce - the road is proposed as a two-way road for the following reasons: Two way road will cut down on unnecessary traffic being routed through the neighborhood. Studies show that two way roads actually slow traffic down more than one way streets. J. Dave S. - was thinking about something like Summit Ave. or Lake of the Isles - one way road. k. Dave S. - is the on-street parking for the park users or the residents? I. Tom - it is expected both will use the on-street parking. m. Brenda - concemed about trash on the front yards of the residences from park users parking on the street. n. Brenda - are there more traffic accidents on parkways? ?k4(/r-- Noah A. SImon Deputy Clerk \ \Metro- inet. us\ardenhills\Admin \Council\Minutes \Special\2007\07 -12-07 Draft.doc