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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-23-07-S ~ ~~HILLS Approved: January 14, 2008 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING July 23, 2007; 6;30 PM ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Stan Harpstead; Council members David Grant, David McClung, and Fran Holmes. Absent: Councilmember Holden (excused) Also Present: City Administrator Michelle Wolfe, Public Works Director Greg Hoag, City Engineer Deb Bloom APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA Motion by Grant, second by Holmes to approve the agenda as printed, with agreement to begin with Item 2B. Motion approved 4-0. A. DISCUSSION WITH RESIDENTS REGARDING HIGHWAY 10 AND 96 Mayor Harpstead informed the audience that tonight they would have a discussion about proposed improvements to the intersection of Highways 10 and 96. He stated that representatives from Mn/DOT, and Ramsey County were present, as were the City Engineer and consultant engineers from the firm SEH. Councilmember Holmes informed those present that Councilmember Holden was out of town on business and was sorry she could not be in attendance for this meeting. The question was asked, why is the City doing this project? The Mayor responded the history since the late 1990's, when the County took over Highway 96 from the State. The City talked the County into starting the highway improvements in White Bear Lake to give Arden Hills time to see what happened on the TCAAP site. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 2 A resident raised the concern with the ability for traffic to make a left turn off of Snelling onto Highway 96. Mayor Harpstead indicated that the engineers will have to study that as they proceed with design engineering. The resident stated that there won't be much of a gap with out a signal there to provide a break to make the turn. Mayor Harpstead responded that the engineers will have to study that issue. A resident raised the concern that by widening Highway 96 it will become a by-pass for 1-694, and removing the signal will make traffic flows even worse. Noise and traffic will increase and residents will be closed in. It would be good to have a noise barrier. A resident, Jolene Poucher, stated that the Briarlmoll neighborhood concern is with turning onto Highway 96 from Snelling, traffic from the intersection already backs up that far. Mayor Harpstead responded that the goal is to try to get traffic from TCAAP on Highway 10 and keep it off Highway 96. He stated that there is a need for the overall system to balance. Another resident stated concern, why is it the City's responsibility to take an increase in traffic on Highway 10 versus i-35W. Resident George Grenander stated that numbers get thrown around regarding the intersection and its status within the County, State, etc. He stated that he heard it is unfunded. He wondered if the recent fatal accident is causing the safety ranking of the intersection to change. Since that accident involved a rear-end crash, why can't the State put in flashing amber lights at the intersection. He wondered if that could be a solution instead of re- doing the whole intersection at a high cost. Mayor Harpstead stated that there is little money for roads, so many proj ects are unfunded. The intersection has moved from 41 st (2001-2004) to 29th (2003-2005) on the states most dangerous list. Resident Pat Haick stated that the residents are hearing different information. He requested clarification regarding MnDOT's position. Mayor Harpstead responded that in MnDOT's Transportation System Plan, this is listed as one of the top four intersections needing safety improvements. Chris Roy, Mn/DOT North Metro Area Manager, and Mark Goess, Area Engineer, discussed the Mn/DOT rankings. They stated that they look at the dollar value for crashes and create a list. They use the list for studying trends. They also study for appropriate action to take to make it safer. They try to find solutions. Some other top 10 intersections are being addressed currently on Highway 169. Several intersections are being reconstructed from signals to interchanges. Bigger fixes are usually the only fix available. For county Road Band Snelling, the solution identified is adding additional lanes, but typically interchanges are necessary. In their opinion, at 10 and 96 the only solution for making it safer is an overpass. Chris Roy, Mn/DOT, stated that Highway 10 and 96 is in the top 50 of MnDOT's list. He stated that in the 1990's, when Highway 96 was turned back, there was discussion and it was determined that grade separation is the best solution for the intersection. The Mn/DOT Transportation System Plan looks out to 2030 to identifY projects. There is a safety category, in which four intersections are listed as ones that Mn/DOT wants to address. Three of the intersections are located along Highway 169, the fourth is Highway 10 and 96. Mn/DOT wants ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 3 to upgrade to an interchange or overpass, but the report does not specifically mention a year because they do not have funding at this time. The goal is to watch for opportunities. It was stated that neither Ramsey County nor Mn/DOT wanted to do anything with the intersection until they knew more about what would happen with TCAAP. It was noted that both the County and Mn/DOT support the intersection improvement project. Resident Pat Haick stated that he believes it is an Arden Hills project, being proposed by the City and not the State or County. James Tolaas of Ramsey County responded that in terms of County Road 96, the County concluded a long time ago that the only practical solution for Highway 96 is a grade separation. Arden Hills was the "stumbling block" because the City did not have agreement on a preferred option. The County at one time had a contract for the improvement project, but had to cancel it pending local discussion. Mayor Harpstead said it is a joint project. Mr. Haick stated that it must be a City project if the City is requesting funding. Mr. Tolaas stated that the only reason Highway 96 didn't proceed earlier was local City concerns. The county had a final design contract with BRW, but it was cancelled to allow time for local planning and decision-making to occur. Mayor Harpstead indicated that yes, times change, TCAAP is happening, the City has an offer to purchase on the property now, and planning for TCAAP is occurring. Mr. Haick stated his concern that the City is allowing traffic to go through on Highway 10 as a highway, solving the I-35W problem for others. He believes that once that happens, Mn/DOT will just take advantage of Highway 10 and push more traffic on it. Chris Roy responded that Mn/DOT is working on the 1-694 improvement project. The environmental document was recently signed. The project includes improvements to the I-35W and 1-694 interchange. Mn/DOT studies the impact on moving traffic off of Highway 10 to 1- 35W and 1-694; this would result in a three-lane ramp, which would result in the removal of West Round Lake Boulevard and the businesses along that street. Mr. Haick asked, so it is just a highway? Mr. Tolaas stated that Highway 10 is already classified and functions as a reliever. A resident asked, is the development of TCAAP dependent on the Highway 10 and 96 interchange. Mayor Harpstead responded that there are impacts of access to TCAAP. He stated that without the interchange there may still be some development, but at a certain point the whole project would fall apart without the Highway 10 and 96 improvement and access off of 10 into TCAAP. Resident Jolene Poucher stated that she has spoken with Mr. Tolaas and others over the years about reducing speed and limiting truck traffic on Highway 10. She stated that something has to be done to reduce "density" of traffic on Highway 10. The vibrations and noise are becoming unbearable. She stated her concern that this improvement will happen long before the 1-694 project is completed, and the safety of all the cars that will fly through Highway 10 and 96 and then hit a back-up at 1-694. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 4 Chris Roy responded that 2015 and 2030 is the timeline for 1-694, but it is a project under advance design so as additional transportation dollars become available, it can proceed more quickly. He further stated that Highway 10 corridor is a top priority part of the project. Mr. Roy said that removing truck traffic and reducing the speed limit would take a change in law. The only instance of an interstate freeway with those restrictions was the result of a federal court case. Speed limits are set by doing a speed study, with the limit set as a percentage of average speeds. Reducing speed can actually be counterproductive and create more safety concerns. The issue is differential of speeds. Mayor Harpstead asked, can you post a recommended truck route? Mr. Roy said that could be investigated. Ms. Poucher asked about safety if fixing Highway 10 and 96 is completed long before 1-694 is completed. Resident George Grenander asked if the speed limit would increase. Mr. Roy stated that he did not know. A resident asked about the process for changing the law and noted a concern about impact on property values. Mark Goess (Mn/DOT) mentioned that as he recalled with I-35E, residents funded their own lawsuit. It took many years to go through the court system. He stated that it would be possible to try and get state legislation to approve a lower speed limit, but he couldn't be sure how the federal government would react to that. A resident asked why Highway 10 couldn't become part of the County system. Mayor Harpstead stated that the volumes are probably too high. Another resident suggested closing Highway 10. Mr. Roy stated that it may seem like a simple solution, but cars will end up on other County and local roads. Mayor Harpstead indicated that the concept of moving Highway 10 to the east has been studied. In addition to increased costs, there is the impact on the wells and other complications, including that the traffic would be brought closer to the Briarknoll neighborhood. Resident David Boldt asked, what would we have to do to get a sound barrier? He continued that Mn/DOT said that because they wouldn't be touching the road down by Briarknoll, they wouldn't do an environmental study. Mayor Harpstead suggested the possibility of looking for grant opportunities and other options, but that the City by itself couldn't build one. Mr. Grenander stated that Shoreview had built one. Mr. Tolaas responded that it was part of a County proj ect. A resident asked for more information about noise walls. Another resident asked about 'jake braking", and whether signs could be posted. Mr. Roy responded that there are two ways noise walls are constructed. One way is that they are built along with major road projects. They study the need for the walls as part of a project, but only study to the project limits (where construction ends). The second category is that they conduct a noise analysis of neighborhoods by highways and create a priority list. Approximately two projects per years are constructed from this category. Ms. Bloom stated that only one Arden Hills neighborhood is in the top 50 on that list; another neighborhood is 185th. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 5 Resident Dorothy McClung stated her concern that the focus on Highway 10 and 96 simply moves traffic to Highway 96. Since traffic cannot go south on Highway 10, the traffic will be on Snelling and other streets. She added that you cannot turn on Hamline now at certain times of the day. She stated her concern that we are trying to fix one problem only instead of looking at the whole area. She stated that the City of North St. Paul delayed the Highway 36 project for years until issues were worked out. She asked for the County to comment on how many mobile homes will be affected. Mr. Tolaas responded that 13 to 17 homes would be affected by the Highway 96 project. He suggested that they may be able to replace some of them. Ms. McClung stated that there will be no improvement to the bridge over I-35W, which is also a problem area. She stated that you cannot build a highway to prevent a car from hitting a truck that is parked (referencing a fatal accident that had recently occurred.) Accidents will not change with redesign. She suggested trying the idea of flashing lights. Mr. Roy responded that Mn/DOT looks at crash rates. Typically, they see a 40% decrease in crash rates when changing from a signalized intersection to a grade separation. Ms. McClung asked ifMn/DOT and Ramsey County have the money for the project. Mr. Roy stated, not at this time. Mr. Tolaas stated, they have turn-back funds available, and the County is in the process of applying for federal funds. Mayor Harpstead added that we don't have funding yet. The goal is to begin acquiring land first, perhaps in 2008, with construction beginning in 2009. Mayor Harpstead asked about the possibility of a signal at Snelling. Mr. Tolaas responded is that the County's goal is to have signals every half mile. He added that they are trying to protect Snelling by lining up the TCAAP entrance with the church. Ms. McClung indicated that she doesn't want a signal at Snelling. Mr. Tolaas stated that support is needed from the City, County, and State, or there will not be much of a chance for funding. A resident from Arden View Drive stated that he believes traffic will get pushed on to the I-35W ramps at Highway 96, and asked what will be done about those? Mr. Roy stated that Mn/DOT has been studying that issue and that it is rising in priority. He mentioned the possibility of round-a-bouts. He stated they will look at this in conjunction with the Highway 10 and 96 projects. Mayor Harpstead asked, would it be possible to put up directional signs to encourage people to use 1-35W instead of Highway 10? Mr. Roy responded they could look at it with the traffic department but he was not sure it would work. Mayor Harpstead asked if more evergreen trees could be planted along Highway 10 for noise control. Mr. Roy stated that every year, Mn/DOT tries to work with cities and neighborhoods to identifY projects. Mn/DOT will create a plan, and cities or private groups provide the labor. Mn/DOT doesn't maintain projects along the interstate. A resident noted that trees were planted 20 years ago and it helped. Ms. Bloom stated ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 6 that she worked on a project like this, and she could work with Mr. Roy to obtain more information. Mayor Harpstead asked, will we lose State and federal funding if nothing happens at Highway 10 and 96? Mr. Roy stated that he believes the crash rate will increase, congestion will increase, traffic on local roads will increase, but money will be spent elsewhere if a decision isn't made regarding this intersection. A resident stated that if a second signal was added north of the current signal, it will end up being problematic onto I-35W, creating back-ups on the Interstate, which would be unsafe. Resident George Grenander referenced the 2005 environmental studies for I-694/Hamline/I-35W. He understood that noise walls have been found to not be economically feasible. Mr. Goess responded that measurements were taken and modeled, and they studied decibel reduction and cost effectiveness. The results were such that Mn/DOT would not propose noise walls. That does not mean that Mn/DOT could not work with the City to help with identifying funding. Mr. Grenander stated that he would like the elevation information and asked if that had been taken into account. Mr. Goess responded that yes, they have studied the elevations. He stated that the problem is that the homes are so high; noise walls are not as effective. The environmental document should be available in the next year or so. He referenced the Mn/DOT formula regarding noise walls and the difference in funding has to be made up from somewhere else. A resident noted that noise rises up with elevations. Mr. Goess responded that normally, a noise wall is not effective past the first row of homes. A resident asked, are you planning a sound wall along Highway 96 near Arden Manor? Ms. Bloom stated that there are 263 projects on the State's list; the area north of Highway 96 is ranked 15th, so a wall may be built if it continues to rise up the list. Mr. Tolaas stated that they had discussed noise walls as part of the County Rod 96 project, but at the time residents didn't want them due to loss of sunlight. A resident asked when the measurements are taken for noise wall studies. He stated that if you take the signal away, there will be more traffic and more noise. Mr. Goess responded that they measure when traffic tends to be loudest and at free flow. Mr. Roy stated that it takes twice as much traffic to general a 2-3 decibel increase. A resident stated that you should look at the total proj ect when discussing noise walls. A resident voiced concern about traffic on Highway 96. Mr. Roy stated that Highway 96 is probably currently being used as a cut-through because of current congestion on 1-694 caused by the unweave the weave project, and the Highway 36 project. Mr. Haick stated that I-35W hasn't kept up with what it needs to do, and that is the real problem. Mr. Roy indicated that the State has $24 billion in needs but only gets about $250 million. There is about a $1 billion shortfall per year. Mr. Haick stated that 1-35W is the problem. He asked, why does Arden Hills have to take this traffic on Highway 10? He questioned what the trade-off is for Arden Hills. We lose our access. He stated that City should be fighting for the residents. Another resident stated that we need public transportation. Mr. Grenander added that we don't ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 7 have a constituency in TCAAP yet. Another resident stated that Highway 10 and 96 is a safety issues, and we need to make a change. A resident asked, if this is ajoint project, can the City require a sound wall as part of the project? Mayor Harpstead stated that the City has some standing in these discussions. Councilmember McClung asked, when has Mn/DOT overridden municipal consent? Mr. Tolaas said he's never seen it happen. Mr. Roy stated it happened with the Crosstown project. Mr. Tolaas indicated that you cannot really extort from the state. Since they don't have a lot of funding, they will simply do projects elsewhere if the City doesn't want the project. Highway 10 is already functioning as a freeway with signals. Traffic will continue to increase. Ifwe don't invest in the regional system, traffic will go on local streets. A resident asked, won't the road status change? The response was that the road is not going to change status, it will remain a freeway, and it just won't have a signal. It will remain a U.S. Highway. Ms. Poucher asked what will happen when cars hit 1-694 traffic. Mayor Harpstead stated that was a good question, and it may impact noise and other factors. He stated there is difficulty with phasing of proj ects. Mr. Roy said the result is that they will be relocating the bottleneck from Highway 10 and 96 to 1-694, but that it may actually be a little bit "better" bottleneck than currently at the signal. Mayor Harpstead added that plans are still at the concept stage. The first step is to decide on a concept, then proceed to preliminary design engineering, which will lead to better answers to many of the questions being asked. A resident asked, is safety the # 1 reason for doing the proj ect? Mayor Harpstead responded that the opportunity to be out in front of a decision rather than behind it is important. The resident asked, is the number one reason to reduce crash rates? Mayor Harpstead said that the reasons include safety, environmental, access, and community values. Environmental issues take away many of the design options. The resident stated, so there are two reasons, safety and access. He said it is easy to find statistics to support that position. He continued that he is not convinced that the intersection is an established trend. He has other pollution concerns, not just noise but air as well. He feels we will lose the ability to get to downtown in fifteen minutes and airport in a half hour. Mayor Harpstead stated that we have to trust the engineers to design the project. This has been studied a great deal and many engineers have come to a similar conclusion about the need for grade separation. A resident stated that the human factor is more important, and asked what the process will be moving forward? Mayor Harpstead responded that what we need is either a better idea or action regarding this concept. The timeframe is that in August/September, a minimum of three of the five Council members need to approve a concept. If they do, it will move forward to the preliminary design phase. A resident asked if there could be more time, maybe until November. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 8 Mayor Harpstead stated that a concept plan is needed to use in order to do the assessment of the preliminary design phase. Mr. Tolaas added that part of the environmental study includes an alternative analysis, including a "do-nothing" alternative and analysis of noise and air impacts. A resident asked, would the opportunity exist for the City Council to vote to stop the project at future stages. Mayor Harpstead responded yes, there would be opportunities for that to occur. A resident stated that he was against the project, because of people losing their homes but also noise issues. He asked if the City can try to pursue funding for noise mitigation. Mr. Tolaas stated that the City would have to find the funds. The resident asked if in the concept plan, the City could include an extension of the noise wall; he stated that we "might as well ask for it." Mayor Harpstead stated that it would be incorporated into the design but would still have to find funding. Ms. Poucher said that Mr. Tolaas and others are saying the same thing now that they were 5-10 years ago. You are not hearing us, not listening to us. The County and Mn/DOT are saying the same things they always have. Councilmember Holmes responded that we are here now and listening. We have been listening, and no decision has been made yet. Ms. Poucher said that Ms. Holmes is new, in the past Council didn't listen. Ms. Homes reiterated that she was here to listen and no decision had been made. A resident stated that the City has never said "no". Councilmember Grant stated that that wasn't true. The City said "no" in 2000 and has been saying "no" for ten years. But, traffic is getting worse, not better, and will continue to get worse. He stated that Council is still listening but we are now at a crossroads. Ms. Poucher stated that she believes TCAAP is driving this. Councilmember Grant said that many things are driving this decision, including the NW quadrant, development in New Brighton, and development in other areas. Mayor Harpstead added that yes, TCAAP is also driving this, in that it is a new development; a year ago we didn't have an Offer to Purchase. Resident Al Hilgers stated that the City has been working on this for ten years. He stated that there should be a super-exchange at 1-694 and I-35W, keeping the traffic on the main highways. People will stay on freeways if you design them. There was discussion about the impacts of putting all of the Highway 10 traffic on I-35W and 1-694. One impact would be losing the access at I-35W and Highway 96. Mr. Haick asked, can't you scrape up a few million dollars for noise walls if you are saving millions by not having to build a "super exchange" on I-35W and I-694? A resident stated that he wanted to hear from Council, if you voted today, where would you vote? Councilmember Grant stated that the question presupposes that he's made a decision. He stated he hasn't yet made a decision. He added that he has heard things tonight that concern him, and that he would like to see some kind of noise mitigation. He reiterated that he hasn't made a decision yet, he hears the concern about noise walls, but they are expensive for the City to fund. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 9 Councilmember Holmes stated that she hasn't made a decision yet. She finds these meetings very valuable. She needs to hear the human factor. She is concerned with safety. She asked if the flyover is safer, can we find a solution for noise, and then maybe we all win. She believes the noise is something we can find a solution for. She stated that the input has been valuable. Councilmember McClung stated that he appreciates the residents coming to the meeting. He ac1mowledged that it is a hard issue, and that it is his belief that if the project was truly being done for safety, there wouldn't be access into TCAAP. He doesn't think this is for safety' he believes it is development-driven. He stated that if it is really for safety, why wasn't it done five years ago. He said he cannot say he is supporting it. He doesn't believe the City has looked at all possible options. He stated that it takes three votes to move forward, they haven't voted yet, and that residents should continue to talk to Council until the vote is taken. Mayor Harpstead stated that we all have to make decisions as they impact the entire community. A decision was probably needed twenty years ago. The reality is that unless there are viable alternatives, traffic will continue to go up. We cannot ignore decisions, we have to make them. The City is looking for rational options. A resident stated that there should be more options. Ms. Poucher asked what is the benefit to Arden Hills? Mayor Harpstead responded that it is an opportunity to address a difficult intersection. There is no bike/pedestrian access, they could open up some neighborhoods and open up for more movement in the future. Dealing with this today can provide opportunities. A resident said that he doesn't believe it will make the City more cohesive, rather, will split it apart. Mayor Harpstead stated that it is already a highway. A resident stated that the negative impacts will be noise and air pollution. We need to find a way to not make it worse for some people in order to make it better for others. A resident asked if an EIS or AUAR has been done. Mayor Harpstead stated no. A resident asked who pays for the AUAR. Mayor Harpstead responded that the developer via the development agreement is funding the AUAR. The resident noted that the AUAR is very important to this discussion and that a larger study area should be considered. Another resident stated they were alarmed at how easy it will be to take out the signal and become an expressway. Mr. Haick said that traffic from the NW quadrant and Chesapeake will bottleneck at 1-35W and Highway 96; attention should be on that area. Mayor Harpstead stated that there are seven major intersections in Arden Hills and we have to balance them all. Mr. Haick said we need to see a broader plan. Ms. Poucher asked ifMn/DOT and the County can provide numbers on the current ad future Highway 10 traffic. Mr. Roy stated that he did not have the numbers with him. Mark Benson of SEH provided some background information and explained the Metropolitan Council traffic modeling and how it works. Jamie Sloboden of SEH stated that 50,000 cars are entering the intersection at 10 & 96; in the future it could be 80,000. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL - JULY 23, 2007 10 Mayor Harpstead asked if Mn/DOT will change the priority of I-35W if Highway 10 isn't improved. Mr. Roy stated no. He said that given time, Highway 10 will eventually back up onto I-35W. Mr. Haick said he doesn't care about that. Removal of the signal will encourage more traffic on to Highway 10. A resident stated that expansion of Highway 96 has resulted in it becoming a bypass, and felt that the same thing will happen with Highway 10. He added, maybe we shouldn't develop if we don't have the capacity for it. Another resident added that a huge concern is noise. He encouraged the Council to think out of the box regarding the noise issue to try and be creative and smart. Another resident agreed and said that he also was concerned with traffic going north and merging issues. Mr. Benson stated that is a good point, and the design will be driven by that concern. They have placed the intersection as far north as possible without crating weaving and merging concerns. They think they've designed enough space. A resident commented that we shouldn't create our own problems via density. Mayor Harpstead responded that it is a balancing act. A goal is no too much density while providing opportunities for a range of housing and residents. Motion by Councilmember Homes, second by Councilmember Grant to adjourn at 9:36 p.m. B. MOTION TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENT OF SONJA KLINGBERG AS OFFICE SUPPORT SPECIALIST Motion by Grant, second by Holmes, to approve the appointment of Sonja Klingberg as Office Support Specialist at a starting salary of$15.59 per hour (starting step). Motion approved 4-0. C. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS ADJOURNMENT Mayor Harpstead adjourned the Special City Council Meeting at 9:36 p.m. ~U4- Noah A. Simon Deputy Clerk \ \Metro-inet.us\ardenhillslAdmin \CollncilIMillllles\Special\2007\07 -23-07 Special CC Meeting.doc