HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-21-08-WS
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Approved: August 25,2008
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
CITY COUNCIL WORKSESSION MEETING
JULY 21,2008
5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Stan Harpstead called to order
the City Council Work Session meeting at 5:05 p.m.
Present: Mayor Stan Harpstead; Council Members David Grant, Brenda
Holden, Fran Holmes, and David McClung.
Absent: None.
Also present: City Administrator Ron Moorse; Assistant City Administrator
Noah Simon; Finance Director Susan Iverson; City Planner James Lehnhoff;
Stacie K vilvang, Ehlers & Associates; Steve Bubul, Kennedy & Gra'ven;
Tanya Spaulding, Shea; and Steve Fenlon.
1. AGENDA ITEMS
A. Continue the Discussion on the TCAAP Financials
Stacie Kvilvang, Ehlers & Associates presented the City Council with further
information on the proposed rate of return for the developer of the TCAAP site.
She indicated she had prepared further information regarding tax capacity and tax
increment amounts along with cash flow statements for the project. Ms. Kvilvang
noted a memorandum was included in the packet of information from Ryan
Companies outlining the risk elements underlying the proposed 150/0 rate of return.
Ms. Kvilvang reviewed the information presented at the last Work Session
meeting. She explained that Ryan Companies was requesting a 150/0 rate of return
on the money they invest into the TCAAP project. Ms. Kvilvang indicated a rate
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21,2008
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of return needed to be set as the basis for moving to the next step in determining
the amount of public assistance to be provided and used as a benchmark.
City Administrator Moorse stated it was important that the land value not be
bought down below market value so as to provide the developer with a windfall in
land sales.
Councilmember Holmes noted she would be in favor of setting a limit on TIF and
was not in favor of setting a rate of return for the developer. She felt the assistance
provided by the City should be for infrastructure. Councilmember Holmes
indicated she was not in favor of providing two phases of TIF, one being for the
land sale and the other for affordable housing.
Councilmember Grant questioned how much TIP would be provided to the
developer without further going through the financials and provided analysis.
Councilmember McClung asked if there was a way for the City to assist Ryan
Companies in managing their risk by providing a "number" to make this project
viable. He stated the City is removing a portion of the risk by providing TIF; and if
this happens he wants to see the City benefit.
Mayor Harpstead agreed with this statement that the City was easing the risk. He
indicated however, that he would rather have Ryan Companies assume the majority
of this risk and not the City of Arden Hills.
Councilmember McClung stated if Ryan Companies were to assume the majority
of the risk he can see how they should receive a return for their investment.
Ms. Kvilvang noted the only way to reduce the developer's risk would be to find
other funding sources other than RRLD's equity or invest City dollars. She
recommended the City not invest their dollars, but rather to provide public
assistance on a pay-as-you-go basis. Ms. Kvilvang indicated the market right now
is providing rates of return in the high teens to low twenties for comparable
projects. She added that the TCAAP site was 585 acres that would need to be
prepared for development, which was extremely large in comparison to any other
project and that it has environmental issues to address as well.
Councilmember Holmes questioned why public assistance was requested for the
land sale but not for the vertical.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Ms. Kvilvang stated the theory was Ryan Companies would prepare the land for
sale and should not need assistance in the vertical portion of the development.
Councilmember Holden questioned if the TIF funding could be negotiated as the
project proceeds, due to the fact the developer was limited in how these funds
could be used.
Mayor Harpstead noted this was not included in the finances at this time.
Mayor Harpstead asked if the TCAAP project could be completed without TIF.
Ms. Kvilvang stated the development would not be completed without TIF. She
indicated the Council could be strategic in the use of TIF allowing it to be used
only for housing and cleanup expenses. She added that the current internal rate of
return was calculated at 8.30/0.
Councilmember Holmes stated with the TIF dollars at $54 million the developer
is receiving an 8.30/0 rate ofretum and questioned if the TIF funding would have to
double in order to provide the requested 15% rate of return.
Ms. Kvilvang noted this isn't a dollar for dollar equation~ but would depend on all
the funding that comes in for this project. She explained that through the
negotiation process, costs will be refined to reduce the amount of TIF needed.
Mayor Harpstead questioned why $54 million was plugged into the proforma by
Ryan Companies when this did not meet their 150/0 rate of return.
Mr. Bubul responded that the long term goals of Ryan Companies were to achieve
a 150/0 rate of return, but they need assistance from the City. He noted the TIF
funding would be the last source of financing plugged into the equation. Mr.
Bubul noted the 150/0 would be a benchmark.
Councilmember Holmes indicated a guaranteed 150/0 rate of return on the land
seemed unwise when the vertical profit on this project was uncertain. She felt these
should go hand and hand.
Councilmember Grant requested that the Council review the first few paragraphs
of the developer agreement regarding the pay schedule.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Ms. Kvilvang noted the public dollars would be provided for the land development
or infrastructure costs. She stated this would assist the developer in grading and
preparing the site for injtialland sales. Ms. K vilvang explained that neighborhood
streets and parks would be added at a later time by the third party developers.
Councilmember Holden questioned what the projected infrastructure costs were at
this time.
Ms. K vilvang indicated this was estimated to be $27.8 million.
Mr. Bubul further explained how TIF funding can be used by the developer and
reminded the Council that this site is "impaired." He stated the massive cleanup
and infrastructure needs on this site warrant TIF funds for initial development.
Councilmember Holden questioned if the GSA funding or credits covered
anything beyond the cleanup, such as grading the site which could lend to double
counting of expenses.
Ms. Kvilvang stated this was a great question and seemed logical. She noted this
may affect the numbers after the cleanup was completed.
Councilmember Grant read that the level of public assistance would be adjusted
at the end of the project with the TIF amount provided reduced if the profit was
greater than agreed upon. He questioned when the "end of the project" was in this
instance.
Ms. Kvilvang indicated this would be upon completion of the land development
phase. She stated vertical sales would be reviewed as well to see if the developer's
projected numbers were aligning with actual sales or if the use of public assistance
needs to be reduced.
Councilmember Holmes indicated she was concerned with the fact that the
developer had first rights to the property and how this would affect which parcels
they sold off first. She stated they need to recognize the value in controlling the
land.
Councilmember Grant questioned if a control could be set on the developer to
force them to develop instead of simply hold the land until they expect 150/0 return
on their money.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Ms. Kvilvang stated this would be expected and would be written into the
developer's agreement to provide incentives for developing quickly.
Mayor Harpstead asked about the TIF number at year five being $16.6 million
when only $4 million had been collected to date. He stated if the project were to be
financed as such, the internal rate of return would be reduced.
Ms. K vilvang stated these were the numbers provided by the developer and that in
reality the TIP funding would come into effect sooner than year five.
Mayor Harpstead questioned if the total available for this project was correct at
$147 million. He indicated the net present value of these dollars would need to be
considered at some point.
Ms. Kvilvang agreed stating this number was correct. She reiterated the fact that
inflation was not put into her numbers and that her proforma was on the
conservative side. Ms.' K vilvang added that a present value of these dollars would
be refined during the process of this development.
Mayor Harpstead stated the internal rate of return were extremely sensitive to
what happens in the first few years of the project. He indicated the land sales and
how they are financed will greatly affect this project.
Councilmember Holden questioned what the TCAAP administrative costs were.
Mr. Bubul stated this may not run as high as 10% but would cover the tax
increment finance district established for this project.
Mayor Harpstead asked that the discussion on this item be suspended to allow for
the Naming of TCAAP to ensue with public comments.
B. Continue the Discussion on Naming the TCAAP Property
Tanya Spaulding indicated she was before the Council to present several names
for the TCAAP site. She reviewed the goals and recapped the three names
presented at the past Council meeting. Ms. Spaulding explained the criteria used
in naming the site. She stated the three names were Arden Crest, The Ridges and
Capstone. Ms. Spaulding asked for comments from the Council on the proposed
names.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Mayor Harpstead stated he was in favor of the use of Crest or Ridge based on the
topography of the site but that none of the names really "grab" him.
Councilmember McClung agreed noting none of the names grab him either.
Councilmember Holmes stated she didn't understand the use of Rice Creek.
Ms. Spaulding stated this type of reference has been used in other developments
but was not necessary. She suggested this not be the hang up as there were other
options.
Councilmember Holmes noted she was in favor of the Arden connection.
Councilmember McClung indicated he has received feedback from several
residents in favor of just using the name Arden Hills.
Ms. Kvilvang stated the Council was naming a development and not the City.
Mayor Harpstead noted he wanted a clear break from TCAAP.
Discussion ensued regarding a name for the TCAAP site.
Councilmember Grant expressed the importance of a good name and how this
would assist in increasing the land value of the site.
Ms. Spaulding agreed stating if a strong enough name was not chosen, this site
would be forever referred to as "the old TCAAP site."
Mayor Harpstead stated there would have to be continuity within the
development based on the site name.
Ms. Spaulding agreed stating the condo names or villas would have to coordinate
with the site name. She asked that the Council consider a starting point or direction
for the name.
Councilmember Grant indicated past developments within Arden Hills have
taken on their name with a clear identity and vitality.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Mayor Harpstead stated he would be in favor of having the development re-
associate with the City of Arden Hills even if a different name were on the site. He
indicated he was not in favor of the Arden Crest name suggestion.
Ms. Spaulding asked for comments from the Council on Option B, The Ridges.
Councilmember Holden stated there was a development with the City named
Arden Ridges.
Councilmember McClung added that this could be confusing with Ridgedale as
well.
Ms. Spaulding questioned if the Council was in favor of Capstone.
Councilmember Holden stated it had a very negative connotation with a past
development within the City.
Councilmember Grant indicated he liked the simplicity of Capstone, but was
concerned with the similarity between Capstone and TCAAP.
Ms. Spaulding reviewed the original criteria which set out the need for a
distinguished name. She passed out a longer list of names compiled for the site and
reviewed the top ten with the Council. Ms. Spaulding indicated the name of this
site will assist in changing its perception.
Councilmember Holden questioned if the Council was in favor of using the word
"Arden" within the name.
Councilmember Holmes stated she liked the use of Arden Hills such as "The
Crest of Arden Hills."
Mayor Harpstead reviewed the five criteria used in developing the names. He
agreed with the criteria used and stated the elements on this property were unique.
Ms. Spaulding agreed the site was unique, has many ties to nature which makes
the name so important. She questioned if the Council would like the name tied to
nature and green space.
Councilmember Holden stated she feels this should be a focus for the
development as there was a large portion set aside for green space and parks.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Councilmember McClung indicated he was in favor of a nature theme within the
name.
City Administrator Moorse stated the site really is striking and full of nature
being surrounded by a wildlife preserve and the creek with trails, and the glacial
kame, which still is the highest point in Ramsey County.
Councilmember Holden expressed her concern for this new site blending into the
original developments within the City.
Councilmember Holmes indicated she was not in favor of "The Summit" because
it did not convey the nature theme of this site.
Councilmember Grant stated the green space within the City of Arden Hills was
exceptional and that a. name that reflected nature would be well received. He felt
this should be highly marketable too.
Discussion ensued regarding the use of "Glacial" within the name and the
marketing implications.
Ms. Spaulding stated from her research "Capstone" was the most marketable name
at this time because it was not overused, and because it turned the TCAAP into
something positive.
Mayor Harpstead questioned if two names could be developed one to be used for
the residential development and the other for the commercial side.
Ms. Spaulding stated this could be done but that it was ideal to have one for
marketing purposes. She noted a balance would have to be reached for all future
property owners.
Mayor Harpstead encouraged the Council and staff to rank the current list of
nature-related names, with each member writing down their top six
recommendations and to add new names if they have suggestions.
It was the consensus of the City Council to direct staff to develop additional names
focusing on the importance of nature and to provide a list of ranked names to staff.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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C. Presbyterian Homes Conduit Financing Request
Steve Fenlon, Midwest Healthcare Capital, introduced himself indicating he has
been hired by Presbyterian Homes to work with municipalities and banks on
financing issues.
City Administrator Moorse explained Presbyterian Homes is requesting the City
be the issuer of some tax exempt financing for a project worth $4.9 million. He
handed out the executive summary of this project to the Council.
Mr. Fenlon stated much of Presbyterian's workers office in a building on Harnline
Avenue in Roseville, MN which was in need of an addition. He explained Arden
Hills was approached for tax exempt bonds as well, and the City has proposed a fee
of 10/0. Mr. Fenlon understood that the bonding process was lengthy but asked the
City to consider his request and offered a $10,000 fee along with covering all city
expenses.
Councilmember Holden questioned if a 1 % fee was used in the past.
Mr. Fenlon indicated a fee was not added in the past except in large metropolitan
areas. He noted this now changed over the past five years with the majority of
cities charging fees.
Ms. Kvilvang interjected stating it has been her experience in working with cities
that a 1 % fee is standard for bonds. She noted this was all part of conduit
financing.
Mr. Fenlon stated he sees his request as an opportunity for the City of Arden Hills
use its authority to sell bonds, which will be discarded on December 31 st at
midnight it is not used. He added that the project would not be completed within
the City but would allow the City to use their bank qualification. Mr. Fenlon
explained that two other cities have been approached and have offered the funds at
Y2%.
Discussion ensued regarding the possibility of funding $4.9 million in conduit
financing for Presbyterian Homes. Past bond financing projects were discussed.
Mayor Harpstead questioned the Council if they were in favor of staff negotiating
a tax exempt conduit financing with a fee lower than 1 %.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Councilmember Holmes asked what the 1 % fee of $4.9 million would be.
Mayor Harpstead indicated this totaled $49,000.
Councilmember Grant stated he was in favor of offering the funds lower than 1 0/0
and would be in approval of further negotiations.
Councilm~mber Holden agreed but did not want to see the negotiations lowering
the fee less than Yl%.
Councilmember Holmes was in favor of further negotiations.
Councilmember McClung was not in favor of negotiations at all.
Mayor Harpstead suggested staff negotiate and preferred not to negotiate at the
worksession.
Mayor Harpstead indicated however it was the Council's consensus at this time
go to forward with negotiations (4-1). He suggested Mr. Fenlon prepare further
information and present it to staff.
The Council further discussed the funding for Presbyterian Homes stating that they
have been before the Council in the past. Staff was directed to negotiate with Mr.
Fenlon and staff could bring the matter to the City Council. Staff could schedule a
public hearing to speed up the process instead of having the Council call for a
public hearing.
A. Continue the Discussion on the TCAAP Financials
Mayor Harpstead stated he would like to continue the TCAAP Financial
discussion at this time.
Mayor Harpstead explained his concern with negotiating an internal rate of return
was that the timing elements would have to be negotiated very clearly because the
developer was in complete control.
Ms. K vilvang stated timelines could be added to the development agreement to
keep the City with some level of control. She indicated Ryan Companies does
want cash back as soon as possible because they are not guaranteed 150/0.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Mayor Harpstead noted he would be in favor of setting a floor with a greater
upside potential on the back end than promising 150/0 upfront.
Ms. Kvilvang indicated she was merely looking for Council comments and would
take this information back to the developer for further negotiations. She explained
they can then choose to proceed with the Council's request or be done with the
deal.
Councilmember Holden stated in her conversations with several bankers they
were surprised the developer was requesting only 150/0 because most developers
were requesting 18-20%.
Councilmember Grant stated this may be the case, but that Ryan Companies does
not have the level of risk they are predicting with the property sales. He indicated
however, he does see a risk in the time their money will be invested.
Councilmember Grant explained that Ryan Companies would not be completing
the residential developments which had the largest amount of risk.
Discussion ensued regarding unknowns that may arise during the development and
sale of properties within TCAAP.
Ms. Kvilvang stated if an issue were to arise, this would have to be negotiated with
the developer.
Mayor Harpstead specific performance clauses should be written into the
developer's agreement to hold the developer accountable and that they be obligated
to complete the project.
Councilmember Grant stated he felt the biggest risk was not the environmental
concerns. He indicated the market was his concern at this time, along with the
upfront costs of preparing the property for sale.
Councilmember Holmes questioned if the developer would be retaining profits
from the land sales in the first years of the project.
Ms. Kvilvang reiterated the fact that any funds taken in would be paid back out to
repay loans taken out by the developer.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Councilmember Holmes asked if the Council completely understood the numbers
provided by Ryan Companies.
Councilmember Holden stated she understood the numbers and explained the
numbers provided by Ryan were in their favor and that the financing provided by
Ehlers showed more conservative land sale values.
Councilmember Grant indicated these numbers were truly invalid at this time,
until a rate of return was agreed upon by the Council.
Councilmember McClung explained he would like further information on the
internal rate of return on the vertical side of this project.
Ms. Kvilvang noted this could run roughly 8-120/0.
Councilmember Grant questioned how the City would be protected if the market
rate for properties greatly increased over the Ryan projections.
Ms. Kvilvang stated a look back would be used to continually review the numbers.
She indicated the developer was not excited about these look backs but that this
would be written into the development agreement.
Councilmember Grant indicated the vertical rate of return should be set along
with the land sale to give the Council a better picture of profits for the developer.
He stated this would provide for greater structure. Councilmember Grant
explained that without this information he would not be in favor of going forward
with with the developer's agreement.
Ms. Kvilvang stated this would be difficult because that means all 585 acres would
have to have a developer in place with proforma's submitted as to how this would
work financially. She indicated she could provide a mechanism or look back
provision when certain criteria are met.
City Administrator Moorse asked if the developer's agreement would set
thresholds.
Ms. Kvilvang stated the thresholds may not be defined specifically, but that each
developer that comes forward is required to go before the Council for review and
consideration to set terms and conditions.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Councilmember Grant reiterated the fact that this development is more than just
land sales.
Councilmember Holmes agreed stating if the developer brought in more than 15%
their TIF would be reduced.
Councilmember Grant questioned how vertical rates of return would be
monitored after the sale of property, such as with residential properties.
Ms. Kvilvang indicated the property owners would come before the City for
review of their proposed developments and that Ryan would only be selling their
property at market value. She explained that this would have to be continually
monitored because land values will change over the course of this project.
Councilmember Holmes asked for the total amount of TIF that was being offered
by the City at this time.
Ms. Kvilvang stated $147 million was the estimated amount of the future value of
TIF at this time, but that the suggested value by Ryan Companies was $54 million
in present value. The City has not committed to a specific amount.
Mayor Harpstead reviewed the discussion, itemizing the items agreed upon by
Council at this time. He stated the Council was in favor of proceeding with the
development but that a vertical assessment was needed along with the land
development sales.
Mayor Harpstead explained that TIF would be required in order to reach a desired
fate of return for the developer with the amount still up in the air. Council
understands the developer is investing $25 million up front for this project along
with borrowing additional funds.
Mayor Harpstead indicated the developer wants 150/0 internal rate of return for
the development of the land.
The Council was in agreement with these statements and further discussed how to
proceed with negotiating the rate of return with Ryan Companies.
Councilmember Grant stated he would like to see TCAAP provide a special
amenity to the City of Arden Hills, whether it be a bridge, trails or sound barrier
walls.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Councilmember Holden questioned if all infrastructure fees were going to be
passed along to the property owner through hookup fees, etc.
Ms. Kvilvang stated City fees were going to be passed along to the future property
owners and amounted to roughly $3.5 million.
Mayor Harpstead asked if the Council had further direction for Ms. K vilvang to
negotiate an internal rate of return of 150/0 with Ryan Companies, provided that
look backs would be included with a total vertical assessment.
Councilmember Holden stated she thought the going rate was higher than 150/0
and that this really could not be negotiated because this was the floor.
Mayor Harpstead indicated this may be true, but that he would like to see the
front end of the development run efficient and tight as it would greatly affect the
finances going forward.
Councilmember Holden questioned how the City would be protected if the
developer were to walk away and the land sold.
Mr. Lehnhoff noted a moratorium could be set on development on the site for one
year. The City still retains zoning control
Councilmember McClung indicated this is a hard decision for the Council to
proceed with and he wants to make sure the Council stays involved as this
development agreement moves forward.
Mayor Harpstead indicated the 150/0 rate of return was based on appropriate land
values and that TIF would be adjusted accordingly.
Councilmember McClung questioned how the City would reach the 150/0 and
what would have to be given up on the City's behalf.
Ms. Kvilvang stated she felt the City would not be giving up anything because
from day one, density would be the last thing discussed. She indicated land sale
proceeds would affect this number along with a reduction in overall development
costs. Ms. Kvilvang explained the City will be a great candidate for grants as well
which would greatly affect the financial numbers upfront.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - JULY 21, 2008
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Councilmember Holmes asked if the ballfields or public use area could be brought
into negotiations to have them addressed.
Mayor Harpstead stated this may be a good time to have these properties
addressed and dealt with. Staff agreed to look into these issues.
Councilmember Grant stated the quality of the development and design standards
should be held to high standards with the developer. He indicated density was also
a concern, and that he was concerned with density versus value.
Councilmember Holden indicated she was in favor of negotiations continuing at
the 15% rate of return.
Councilmember Holmes explained she would need additional time to review and
understand the numbers before being comfortable with the 150/0.
Mayor Harpstead stated he was also in favor of the 150/0 as long as this would not
mean additional TIF would be added.
Ms. K vilvang indicated this would be the case as the numbers continued to be
refined. She stated she could sit down with Councilmember Holmes in the next
week to review the numbers.
It was the consensus of the City Council to direct staff to proceed in negotiations
with Ryan Companies setting a 150/0 internal rate of return for the TCAAP
development.
2. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS
There was nothing at this time.
--_.~"~"".......,.,...._,-,
Mayor Harpst ad adjourned the 'City Council Work Session meetjn t 8:34 p.m.
Ronald J. oorse
City Administrator