HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-13-08-WS
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Approved: October 27, 2008
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING
OCTOBER 13, 2008
5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDERlROLL-CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Stan Harpstead called to order
the City Council Work Session meeting at 5:08 p.m.
Present: Mayor Stan Harpstead; Council Members David Grant, Brenda
Holden, Fran Holmes, and Dave McClung.
Absent: None.
Also present: City Administrator Ron Moorse; Assistant City Administrator
Noah Simon; Public Works Director Gregory Hoag; Finance Director Susan
Iverson; Community Development Director James Lehnhoff; Park and
Recreation Manager Michelle Olson; Tom Whitlock, Damon Farber
Associates; Gen McJilton, Ryan Companies; and Bruce Chamberlain,
Hoisington Koegler Group.
1. AGENDA ITEMS
A. Roadways and Infrastructure
City Administrator Moorse presented the City Council with a brief introduction.
He indicated streets and infrastructure would be further discussed along with street
trees, lighting and landscaping. City Administrator Moorse explained each street
type would be discussed with the amenities greater defined.
Councilmember McClung indicated he would like to know where the median
price range was on the items to be discussed. He indicated he felt some areas of the
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 13,2008
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TCAAP development could be median range and others may need to be towards
the high end.
Councilmember Holden questioned the difference between low and mid. She
indicated this information would be useful to establishing the budget for the streets.
Tom Whitlock, Damon Farber stated he did not"have the numbers in front of him,
but that this varied greatly depending on the amenity.
Councilmember McClung made it very clear that he would like to know the
expense of each item along with a low and high range, while this proposal was
being reviewed in order to keep him fully informed on the options.
Mr. Whitlock explained the first section of the presentation followed up on the
Council's last discussion. He stated his proposal followed the current budget with
several enhancements built in. Mr. Whitlock showed several slides to the Council
from a project in Woodbury. He indicated the landscaping including shrubs, trees,
ornamental grass and grass with native perennials.
Mr. Whitlock reviewed several other projects with the Council and asked them for
comments as to the likes and dislikes of these streetscape projects. He stressed the
importance of irrigation to care for the streets-capes along with proper soil.
Councilmember McClung asked how much of a cost difference there was
between a streetscape that was tree focused versus one that was not.
Mr. Whitlock indicated the expense was similar and th.at the trees were not the
major expense.
Councilmember Holmes stated she would be In favor of low maintenance
landscaping without deemphasizing the medians.
Discussion ensued regarding the streetscaping, landscaping and medians proposed
for the TCAAP development.
Councilmember Holden questioned who would be responsible for irrigation
expenses and maintenance of the medians.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK.: SESSION - OCTOBER 13, 2008
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Gen McJilton, Ryan Companies stated this has not yet been structured but it is a
key component to define this in advance to keep landscaping them looking healthy
into the future.
Mr. Whitlock reviewed additional maintenance to the medians as being irrigation
start up, head replacement, perennial bed weeding, shrub trimming, trash collection
and tree trimming.
Bruce Chamberlain, Hoisington Koegler Group added that medians
accommodate turn lanes. He stated they also cut down on the number of accidents,
increasing the safety within the development.
Councilmember Holden questioned why the Shoreview medians with rose
plantings were thriving in comparison to the Arden Hills medians.
Mayor Harpstead stated this was a good point and that the maintenance crews in
Shoreview should be contacted to discuss this in further detail.
Mr. Whitlock stated the Council could consider taking out a contract for
maintenance if this was a huge concern.
Mr. Whitlock then reviewed lighting styles with the Council both the 30 foot and
15 foot heights. He asked if the Council was in favor of something more historic,
modem, etc.
Councilmember Grant asked if this was the high, low or mid range lighting.
Mr. Whitlock stated he has presented the mid range 30 foot lighting style.
Councilmember McClung stated he would like to see additional options before a
decision could be made. He indicated the B2 zoning district was not in favor of an
oil lamp type light, which he agreed. Councilmember McClung stated he would
like the light fixtures to integrate with the architecture of the development.
Councilmember Grant stated many cities are choosing the Old World style
lighting. He indicated he was not in favor of this style, but would like a newer
modem feel to these fixtures.
Councilmember Holmes stated she would be in favor of the most efficient light
available.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 13, 2008
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Councilmember Grant asked if LED lights were a possibility.
Mr. Whitlock stated the LED lights were on the higher end for price but would
require lower maintenance in the long run. Mr. Chamberlain noted most
manufacturers are moving in this direction.
Councilmember Grant stated this would be an efficient alternative for the
development that should be considered.
Councilmember McClung indicated it would be exciting if Arden Hills were the
first City to complete an all LED development.
Councilmember Holden questioned if the proposed lights were vandal proof.
Mr. Whitlock indicated several models were more vandal resistant than others but
that this would have to be considered when selecting a fixture.
Mayor Harpstead explained he was not in favor of recapturing an Old World feel
within this development through the street fixtures. He stated there are ways for
this development to be unique, but that this was not the direction he wanted to
head.
Councilmember Grant asked how the Council felt about tree lighting or lit
buildings.
Mayor Harpstead stated he felt this should be left to the commercial district and
not have this driven by the City. He explained he was more in favor of tree lighting
versus buildings. Mayor Harpstead indicated however, that he did not want the
.light pollution to be washing back into residential areas.
Councilmember Holden questioned if the street sign poles could be upgraded or
made nicer to compliment the street lights.
Mr. Whitlock stated the poles could be painted to match and incorporate the same
feel throughout the development.
Mayor Harpstead asked if the street signs could be mounted onto the light poles
eliminating the need for additional poles.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 13, 2008
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Councilmember McClung stated higher quality sign posts may be needed at major
intersections.
Councilmember Grant indicated he wasn't sure about mounting the street signs
onto the light poles. He stated the look needed to be upgraded from the current
street signs within the City.
Mr. Whitlock went into explaining the species and size of the trees that would be
selected for the streetscaping. He indicated all plants were chosen because they
are salt tolerant and pest resistant. Mr. Whitlock stated they were fast growing,
provided adequate shade and provided nice fall foliage.
Councilmember McClung stated his preference would be to have the mature trees
reach a height closer to 70 feet versus 30 feet.
Mayor Harpstead stated he would like to see a wide variety of trees used to
eliminate the threat of losing them all at once to a disease. He added that no trees
live forever, but that decisions should be made to reduce the risk of the trees
needing to be replaced at once.
Mr. Whitlock reviewed the cost and life expectancy of infrastructure items stating
concrete was more costly up front at $5 per square foot but lasts 30-40 years.
Bituminous expenses ran less than half the cost of concrete. He indicated the
bituminous would require yearly maintenance and the life expectancy was 15-20
years.
Mr. Whitlock noted the lighting expenses would vary based on the fixtures
chosen. He indicated the budget was set at $75 per linear foot. Mr. Whitlock
stated there would be minimal yearly maintenance with bulb replacement and
painting every 5- 10 years.
Mr. Whitlock explained the plant material and shrubs would run $45 a shrub with
annual maintenance to include trimming, weeding and trash removal. He indicated
the life expectancy of a shrub was roughly 15-20 years. Mr. Whitlock stated all
grass was $5 per square yard requiring mowing and repair work from snow plow
damage.
Mr. Whitlock indicated trees cost $400 per three inch caliper tree with minimal
maintenance, watering and replacement if there was winter kill.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 13, 2008
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Councilmember McClung stated he would like to have further discussion as to the
advantages of tree heavy landscaping versus shrubs and perennials. He indicated
he needed to better understand the benefit of the shrubs and annuals.
Mayor Harpstead indicated TCAAP was a lot of acres and that there would be
locations for trees and other areas requiring color and shrubs. He wanted there to
be a mix within the development so as not to become dull.
Councilmember McClung felt the trees would become a legacy to the community.
Councilmember Grant questioned if irrigation was written into the price estimates
for the landscaping items. .
Mayor Harpstead stated the bottom of the estimate does state irrigation was
included with the stated expenses.
Mr. Chamberlain stated he reviewed several streetscape projects completed in the
past 10 years to see the range in costs. He explained the estimate he provided was
for a "middle of the road" price range. Mr. Chamberlain noted the landscaping
would be disbursed along roadways and heavier at intersections.
Councilmember Grant questioned why the Council was shown examples of heavy
landscaping along boulevards, like in Woodbury, if this was not going to be
estimated for the development.
Mr. Whitlock stated this could be done for TCAAP but that the expense and
maintenance costs for upkeep would increase greatly.
Councilmember Holden questioned what percentage of medians would be
planted.
Mr. Whitlock projected with all the access points through the development, with
turn lanes he estimated roughly 40% would have a planted median.
Councilmember Holmes questioned if the expense to install irrigation was
included in this plan.
Mr. Whitlock stated this plan includes an irrigation system.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 13,2008
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Mayor Harpstead stated the City of Shoreview had drip irrigation. He questioned
if this was more efficient.
Mr. Whitlock indicated this was more efficient than spraying heads and that it
conserves water. He explained the challenge with drip irrigation was that you can't
see it to know ifit is working properly. Mr. Whitlock stated the lawns would need
a spray system but that shrubs and trees could have drip irrigation.
Mr. Whitlock reviewed several traffic elements with the Council, sharing how the
different roadways could be designed, with and without medians, plantings, etc.
He explained there were several ways to calm traffic through parking bays, street
lights, an investment in the planted boulevards and wider sidewalks.
Mr. Whitlock indicated street trees, bike lanes and an increased number of access
points would also increase the calming effect along the roadways. Short blocks,
curved and narrow roadways also slow traffic through developments.
Mr. Whitlock reviewed several bridge styles with the Council, completed by
MnDOT both decorative and minor. He noted patterned concrete could be painted
to create an architectural interest with custom lighting and railings. Mr. Whitlock
reviewed several railing styles with the Council. He noted punched metal was a
very cost effective railing being used.
Councilmember Grant stated he wanted to stay higher end on the bridges due to
the fact it makes a statement when entering a community. He added that the
maintenance should be minimal with a high end look.
Councilmember Holden stated the painted bridges did require maintenance in
order to keep their high end look.
Mayor Harpstead stated he was in favor of the "rock" look for this development
and that limestone may be an appropriate selection for the surrounding
environment.
Ms. McJilton stated this input would be helpful in creating an image for the
development on how the bridges should be engineered.
Mr. Whitlock then reviewed the roadways throughout the development showing
each connection through TCAAP. The size and scale of each road was explained
along with the expected traffic flow. Mr. Whitlock explained County Road H had
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 13, 2008
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a 10 foot bituminous trail on one side, eight foot sidewalk on the other, with a 1 0
foot grass boulevard with trees. He indicated County Road H would have three
lanes of traffic in each direction with a left nand turn lane.
Councilmember Grant stated he would be in favor of concrete sidewalks on both
sides of County Road H because this was the entryway into the development.
Councilmember Holmes stated this may be a concern due to the fact bikes were
not allowed on sidewalks or in the streets.
Mayor Harpstead indicated the PTRC wanted this area to accommodate bicycles,
rollerblading and strollers. He explained however, that he was in favor of concrete
sidewalks along County Road H because it was a major entryway and that
residential areas would have bituminous.
Mr. Whitlock noted the Council could further discuss the trails and sidewalks at
the October 15th work session.
Mayor Harpstead explained he would like as many power lines buried as possible
in this area.
Ms. McJilton noted this comment but stated other factors may make this
impossible and that wires would have to go over the creek. She indicated where it
can be done, the wires will be buried.
Further discussion was held regarding monument signs, their location and the price
range for the development.
Councilmember McClung stated he would be In favor of a brick and stone
monument style sign used if the budget allowed.
Mr. Whitlock then reviewed the layout and proposed design for the primary
parkway. He stated this roadway ran between commercial and higher density
housing. Mr. Whitlock ran through the specs for the number of lanes, boulevard
size, etc.
Councilmember McClung stated he was very concerned about the look and feel of
this intersection. He noted there would be a great deal of traffic flowing into the
development off Highway 96 through this intersection.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 13, 2008
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Mayor Harpstead stopped the discussion at this time and asked that the
Councilmembers review the rest of the information and provide staff with
additional comments or questions.
City Administrator Moorse noted this could be continued to the October 15th
work session meeting for additional discussion.
It was the consensus of Council to continue this discussion on October 15,2008.
2. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS
There was nothing at this time.
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Mayor
at 6:54 p.m.
Ronald J. oorse
City Administrator