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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-17-08-WS ~ ~~LLS Approved: October 27, 2008 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING SEPTEMBER 17, 2008 6:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS . CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Stan Harpstead called to order the City Council Work Session meeting at 6:04 p.m. Present: Mayor Stan Harpstead; Council Members David Grant, Brenda Holden, Fran Holmes, and Dave McClung. Absent: None. Also present: City Administrator Ron Moorse; Community Development Director James Lehnhoff; Stacie Kvilvang, Ehlers & Associates; Gen McJilton, Ryan Companies; Tom Whitlock, Damon Farber Associates; Rick Collins, Ryan Companies; and Bruce Chamberlain, Hoisington Koegler Group. 1. AGENDA ITEMS A. Massing of Housing Stacie K vilvang, Ehlers & Associates presented the City Council with a recap on the past work session meeting. She stated Council requested Presbyterian Home rental numbers be shown in the analysis, a possible reduction in rental numbers within TCAAP, along with some 3-D modeling. Ms. Kvilvang indicated the 3-D modeling is not available, but she did have preliminary site plan sketches to review. Ms. Kvilvang reviewed slides with the Council regarding the current number of rental units within the City. She stated the current split was about 90/10 owner versus rental. Ms. Kvilvang indicated with the addition of the Presbyterian -Homes rental units this would become about an 80/20 split. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17, 2008 2 Councilmember Holden stated she was in favor of the 80/20 split. She questioned if the senior housing units would have some provision to assure that they would stay senior housing 10 to 15 years down the road. Mayor Harpstead indicated that some provisions would have to be made in the master development agreement. He stated these issues would be negotiated in amendments. Ms. Kvilvang reviewed the current and proposed rental units with Council. She also went through the revised site plan to gain additional feedback. Ms. Kvilvang indicated all previous comments were taken into consideration for the new site plan and that there was a mix of three and four story buildings. Discussion ensued regarding the revised site plan. Councilmember Grant questioned if there would be underground parking for the three and four story rental units. Ms. Kvilvang explained this would be the case, that the parking structure would have the same footprint as the building below grade. Councilmember Holmes asked why the high density was so closely compacted within the TCAAP development and not more spread out. Ms. Kvilvang noted further discussions will be held but that this was a typical layout to help support the neighboring retail. Councilmember Holden stated that the four story rental units do have nice views, increasing the value of the density. Ms. Kvilvang questioned if Council would be more in favor of density clusters. Mayor Harpstead stated he was in favor of the plan described in clusters. Councilmember Holmes and Grant agreed. Councilmember McClung stated the higher density housing could integrate more with the retail to benefit the viability of these properties. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17, 2008 3 Ms. K vilvang asked the Council for initial comments and questions on the amenities they would like to see in TCAAP, such as parks, green spaces, etc. She indicated this feedback would allow staff to gather additional information for upcoming worksessions and provide guidance to move forward. Ms. K vilvang thanked the Council for their comments stating that staff and consultants would work together to prepare for the next meeting where information will be brought back for Council direction. B. TCAAP Naming City Administrator Moorse presented the City Council with a summary on the namIng process. Rick Collins, Ryan Companies further explained this item has been discussed July 21 st and August II tho Based on the information he has gathered he has some reservations with the direction the naming process is heading. Mr. Collins stated Prairie Ridge was at the top of the list at this time. Mr. Collins indicated the name of this site will help the site move past TCAAP, along with building some momentum going into the future. He stated the name should appropriately represent the site, and be able to be used for commercial or residential purposes. Mr. Collins explained his concerns with the name "Prairie Ridge." One concern was the difficultly in pronouncing the name. He also indicated this name was not site specific to the many advantages of its central location. Mr. Collins added that the domain name was not available. He concluded that he felt the words "Prairie" and "Ridge" were too commonly used in the state of Minnesota. Mr. Collins stated he was able to obtain domain names for Arden Crest or Arden Summit. He recommended Arden Crest or Arden Summit and asked for comments or questions from the Council. Councilmember Holmes noted she was not present at the August 11 th meeting and thanked Mr. Collins for his input. She stated he was more of an expert in this area and that Council should go along with his suggestion for marketing purposes. Councilmember Holden indicated she was not in favor of Arden Summit because it would lead people to think of Summit Avenue. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008 4 Mr. Collins stated he noted this in his summary which led him to his preference of Arden Crest. Discussion ensued regarding the naming of the TCAAP site. Councilmember Holden stated she was not in favor of Arden Crest or Arden Summit. Mayor Harpstead explained the original naming conversation lead the Council to carry forward a theme of a bit or rural in the middle of the City. He stated the second part was to take advantage of the elevation. Councilmember McClung stated the use of "Arden" gave the building site a rich historye He added that the use of "Arden" may assist the residents in taking on the new name and reducing the use of TCAAP. Councilmember Grant noted he was not in favor of Arden Crest and did not like the Capstone name as it may lead people back to TCAAP. Councilmember Holmes stated she was in favor of Capstone. Mr. Collins stated he would be in favor of Capstone. Mayor Harpstead asked if there was a consensus to drop Prairie Ridge. Councilmember Holden and Holmes agreed- to drop this name. Councilmember Grant stated he could go either way. Mayor Harpstead questioned if the use of "Arden" in the property name would create or separate the City of Arden Hills. Councilmember Holmes and McClung stated they felt it would not separate the City. Councilmember Holden and Grant stated they felt it would separate the City. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008 5 Mayor Harpstead explained the name could separate the City in the form of Arden Crest because the name was not descriptive of location. He felt Arden Crest may not be the best choice. Mayor Harpstead asked if Summit should be kept in the naming process. Councilmember McClung was the only member in favor of keeping Summit. Councilmember Holmes asked if Arden Ridge was a possibility. Mr. Collins stated he would be in favor of Arden Ridge versus Prairie Ridge because it was easier to say and gave location. Councilmember Holden stated she was most in favor of Prairie Crown, but that Prairie was out. Councilmember McClung felt that "Ridge" was a far more common word used in development than "Summit". Mayor Harpstead indicated he was concerned about using "Arden" within the name and how this may establish a sister City. He stated he did not want to see this happen with the TCAAP development. Mayor Harpstead questioned who was in favor of Arden Crest" Councilmember Holmes stated she was. Councilmember McClung, Grant and Holden were not in favor of this name. Mayor Harpstead asked how the Council felt about Arden Ridge. Councilmember Holmes, Holden and Grant stated they were in favor of this name. Councilmember McClung stated he was disappointed that this was the only name the Council could agree upon. Further discussion was held as to the names discussed at past meetings. Council discussed the difference between one word and two word names. Councilmember Holden stated she would be in favor of Upland. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008 6 Councilmember Holmes noted Capstone was a one word name as well that she was in favor of. Mayor Harpstead summarized the discussion thus far by stating the Council was interested in looking at a one word name for this development that would maintain an identity with Arden Hills and that Mr. Collins' concerns were still being considered. It was the consensus o~.the City Council that a list of one word development names should be generated to be reviewed at a future work session meeting. Council was also advised to forward any names they may have for consideration. C. Introduce Next Master Development Plan Topic - Roadways and Infrastructure Tom Whitlock, Damon Farber Associates, thanked the Council for their time and stated he was looking for general comments to allow him to gather the information needed to assist Council in making informed decisions on the park spaces, infrastructure and streetscapes. Councilmember Holden stated it would be helpful to know where the streets are located, which would be four lanes and which are two lanes. She added that the costs associated with lighting would be beneficial. Councilmember Holmes questioned why PUD decisions were being made at this time. City Administrator Moorse stated this would assist in setting a common development theme for future developers to establish lighting, sidewalk placement, and design guidelines. Mrc Whitlock indicated three meetings were scheduled for park and amenities issues and three meetings for street components. He noted these items would then be further discussed at these meetings before final decisions were made. Councilmember McClung questioned when the water feature would be discussed. He indicated this was a high priority to him. Ms. Kvilvang indicated this would be discussed at a parks and amenities meeting. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17, 2008 7 Councilmember Holmes asked when the ball fields would be discussed. Mr. Whitlock stated the streets would be discussed first followed by park discussions. Mr. Whitlock indicated trail destinations, connections and movement through TCAAP would need to be discussed by Council. He stated sidewalks and street trees would also need to be determined. Councilmember Holmes questioned if the neighborhoods would be established as associations. Ms. Kvilvang indicated some cities are moving toward this and that this may be determined by the developer. Councilmember Holmes asked if the design guidelines would then be handled by the City or the homeowners association. Ms. K vilvang stated these design guidelines would still be handled at a Council level. Mayor Harpstead noted the design parameters would determine the ultimate pricing structure for the end user. He noted this would drive prices up or hold them down. Mayor Harpstead asked that left hand turns be discussed on the roadways to establish which roadways would use these and which would be right in, right out. Ms. Kvilvang noted this information would be required for the full build out to establish right of way. Mr. Whitlock noted permanent open water and ponds would need to be determined along with the feel of the open spaces. He stated active recreation, ball fields and trail connections would need to be decided as well. Mayor Harpstead stated the water feature would be an important issue and that the ones the Council has visited thus far had very different edges. He asked that this be further discussed at a future meeting, along with a pedestrian bridge, and the expenses associated with this amenity. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008 8 Mr. Whitlock stated the water feature would only be water six months out of the year. He suggested the Council consider winter uses, such as ice skating, for this area as well; noting that this would need to be taken into consideration when constructing the water feature. Councilmember McClung asked that the yearly upkeep of the Centennial Lakes water feature be presented. He also wanted to know the economic benefit of the water feature for the property. Mr. Whitlock asked the Council to consider the amenities and size of the Village Green greenspace. Mayor Harpstead stated outdoor seating at neighboring retail should be addressed near the Village Green. Councilmember McClung asked that active recreational alternatives be looked at for the Village Green to diffuse the density. Discussion ensued regarding the Village Green amenities. Councilmember Holden questioned what would draw people to the Village Green greenspace versus a park. Ms. Kvilvang stated she would look to see if there are examples of high density residential near greenspaces. Councilmember McClung indicated he was fine with viewing other similar properties "but that he wanted the Arden Hills development to be unique, not copying what has already been done. Mayor Harpstead stated he saw the Village Green as a gateway or transition area to the higher density housing. Councilmember Grant stated he would like the art in this area to be subtle and not the main focus. He added that he was in favor of underground parking as well. Mr. Whitlock stated his final question for Council would be to address the neighborhood parks. He asked if Council was in favor of smaller parks or fewer parks that were larger in scale. Mr. Whitlock indicated that the smaller the park the fewer the amenities that could. be provided. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008 9 Councilmember Holden asked if the park land would be dedicated by the developers. Ms. Kvilvang stated this was the case or that it would be handled by the homeowners association. City Administrator Moorse indicated an estimate of the population that was being served by the parks would need to be determined to help establish the amenities needed within the parks. Ms. Kvilvang stated this could be reviewed through the housing number estimates and demographics. She indicated the housing developer could have parameters set to meet the needs of the neighborhood as well. Councilmember Grant stated he would be more in favor of manicured parks than a natural setting. Mayor Harpstead stated the natural setting was provided within the 49 acres of the wildlife corridor. Councilmember Grant stated he would like information on the economic benefits of manicured versus natural parks. He indicated the value added would be useful information in future decision making. Ms. K vilvang thanked the Counc,il for their comments stating staff and consultants would work together to prepare for the next meeting where information will be brought back for Council decision. 2. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS Councilmember Grant questioned what information staff has about Fannie Mae due to the recent financial concerns. Mr. Collins stated he felt it was good to have all of the housing concerns arise at one time. He indicated that the concerns with Fannie Mae would be resolved by the time this development began. Mayor Harpstead asked if Ryan Companies had considered a residential partner yet. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17, 2008 10 Mr. Collins stated the residential developers were working through their existing inventory before considering the TCAAP property. He noted developers were being informed of how the site was moving forward. Councilmember Holmes expressed concern for the B2 County Road E study. Councilmember Holmes asked why the study was proposing housing and office space. She questioned if the current land owners were notified of these changes. Community Development Director Lehnhoff stated these property owners were notified of this study. Councilmember Holmes stated she was very disappointed and that it was not providing the information requested. Mayor Harpstead suggested the Community Development Director and Councilmember Holmes sit down together and discuss this item further to clarify the misunderstandings. Councilmember McClung stated he attended a very interesting fire board meeting. He stood firm with the budget and that the City of Arden Hills would not be supporting the Deputy Chief position. Mayor Harpsteadadjou eCily-BQ~llncil Work Session meetin at 8:36 p.m. Ronald J. oorse City Administrator