HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-17-08-WS
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Approved: October 27, 2008
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING
SEPTEMBER 17, 2008
6:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Stan Harpstead called to order
the City Council Work Session meeting at 6:04 p.m.
Present: Mayor Stan Harpstead; Council Members David Grant, Brenda
Holden, Fran Holmes, and Dave McClung.
Absent: None.
Also present: City Administrator Ron Moorse; Community Development
Director James Lehnhoff; Stacie Kvilvang, Ehlers & Associates; Gen
McJilton, Ryan Companies; Tom Whitlock, Damon Farber Associates; Rick
Collins, Ryan Companies; and Bruce Chamberlain, Hoisington Koegler
Group.
1. AGENDA ITEMS
A. Massing of Housing
Stacie K vilvang, Ehlers & Associates presented the City Council with a recap on
the past work session meeting. She stated Council requested Presbyterian Home
rental numbers be shown in the analysis, a possible reduction in rental numbers
within TCAAP, along with some 3-D modeling. Ms. Kvilvang indicated the 3-D
modeling is not available, but she did have preliminary site plan sketches to review.
Ms. Kvilvang reviewed slides with the Council regarding the current number of
rental units within the City. She stated the current split was about 90/10 owner
versus rental. Ms. Kvilvang indicated with the addition of the Presbyterian -Homes
rental units this would become about an 80/20 split.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17, 2008
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Councilmember Holden stated she was in favor of the 80/20 split. She questioned
if the senior housing units would have some provision to assure that they would
stay senior housing 10 to 15 years down the road.
Mayor Harpstead indicated that some provisions would have to be made in the
master development agreement. He stated these issues would be negotiated in
amendments.
Ms. Kvilvang reviewed the current and proposed rental units with Council. She
also went through the revised site plan to gain additional feedback. Ms. Kvilvang
indicated all previous comments were taken into consideration for the new site plan
and that there was a mix of three and four story buildings.
Discussion ensued regarding the revised site plan.
Councilmember Grant questioned if there would be underground parking for the
three and four story rental units.
Ms. Kvilvang explained this would be the case, that the parking structure would
have the same footprint as the building below grade.
Councilmember Holmes asked why the high density was so closely compacted
within the TCAAP development and not more spread out.
Ms. Kvilvang noted further discussions will be held but that this was a typical
layout to help support the neighboring retail.
Councilmember Holden stated that the four story rental units do have nice views,
increasing the value of the density.
Ms. Kvilvang questioned if Council would be more in favor of density clusters.
Mayor Harpstead stated he was in favor of the plan described in clusters.
Councilmember Holmes and Grant agreed.
Councilmember McClung stated the higher density housing could integrate more
with the retail to benefit the viability of these properties.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17, 2008
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Ms. K vilvang asked the Council for initial comments and questions on the
amenities they would like to see in TCAAP, such as parks, green spaces, etc. She
indicated this feedback would allow staff to gather additional information for
upcoming worksessions and provide guidance to move forward.
Ms. K vilvang thanked the Council for their comments stating that staff and
consultants would work together to prepare for the next meeting where information
will be brought back for Council direction.
B. TCAAP Naming
City Administrator Moorse presented the City Council with a summary on the
namIng process.
Rick Collins, Ryan Companies further explained this item has been discussed
July 21 st and August II tho Based on the information he has gathered he has some
reservations with the direction the naming process is heading. Mr. Collins stated
Prairie Ridge was at the top of the list at this time.
Mr. Collins indicated the name of this site will help the site move past TCAAP,
along with building some momentum going into the future. He stated the name
should appropriately represent the site, and be able to be used for commercial or
residential purposes.
Mr. Collins explained his concerns with the name "Prairie Ridge." One concern
was the difficultly in pronouncing the name. He also indicated this name was not
site specific to the many advantages of its central location. Mr. Collins added that
the domain name was not available. He concluded that he felt the words "Prairie"
and "Ridge" were too commonly used in the state of Minnesota.
Mr. Collins stated he was able to obtain domain names for Arden Crest or Arden
Summit. He recommended Arden Crest or Arden Summit and asked for comments
or questions from the Council.
Councilmember Holmes noted she was not present at the August 11 th meeting and
thanked Mr. Collins for his input. She stated he was more of an expert in this area
and that Council should go along with his suggestion for marketing purposes.
Councilmember Holden indicated she was not in favor of Arden Summit because
it would lead people to think of Summit Avenue.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008
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Mr. Collins stated he noted this in his summary which led him to his preference of
Arden Crest.
Discussion ensued regarding the naming of the TCAAP site.
Councilmember Holden stated she was not in favor of Arden Crest or Arden
Summit.
Mayor Harpstead explained the original naming conversation lead the Council to
carry forward a theme of a bit or rural in the middle of the City. He stated the
second part was to take advantage of the elevation.
Councilmember McClung stated the use of "Arden" gave the building site a rich
historye He added that the use of "Arden" may assist the residents in taking on the
new name and reducing the use of TCAAP.
Councilmember Grant noted he was not in favor of Arden Crest and did not like
the Capstone name as it may lead people back to TCAAP.
Councilmember Holmes stated she was in favor of Capstone.
Mr. Collins stated he would be in favor of Capstone.
Mayor Harpstead asked if there was a consensus to drop Prairie Ridge.
Councilmember Holden and Holmes agreed- to drop this name.
Councilmember Grant stated he could go either way.
Mayor Harpstead questioned if the use of "Arden" in the property name would
create or separate the City of Arden Hills.
Councilmember Holmes and McClung stated they felt it would not separate the
City.
Councilmember Holden and Grant stated they felt it would separate the City.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008
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Mayor Harpstead explained the name could separate the City in the form of
Arden Crest because the name was not descriptive of location. He felt Arden Crest
may not be the best choice.
Mayor Harpstead asked if Summit should be kept in the naming process.
Councilmember McClung was the only member in favor of keeping Summit.
Councilmember Holmes asked if Arden Ridge was a possibility. Mr. Collins
stated he would be in favor of Arden Ridge versus Prairie Ridge because it was
easier to say and gave location.
Councilmember Holden stated she was most in favor of Prairie Crown, but that
Prairie was out.
Councilmember McClung felt that "Ridge" was a far more common word used in
development than "Summit".
Mayor Harpstead indicated he was concerned about using "Arden" within the
name and how this may establish a sister City. He stated he did not want to see this
happen with the TCAAP development.
Mayor Harpstead questioned who was in favor of Arden Crest"
Councilmember Holmes stated she was.
Councilmember McClung, Grant and Holden were not in favor of this name.
Mayor Harpstead asked how the Council felt about Arden Ridge.
Councilmember Holmes, Holden and Grant stated they were in favor of this
name.
Councilmember McClung stated he was disappointed that this was the only name
the Council could agree upon.
Further discussion was held as to the names discussed at past meetings. Council
discussed the difference between one word and two word names.
Councilmember Holden stated she would be in favor of Upland.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008
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Councilmember Holmes noted Capstone was a one word name as well that she
was in favor of.
Mayor Harpstead summarized the discussion thus far by stating the Council was
interested in looking at a one word name for this development that would maintain
an identity with Arden Hills and that Mr. Collins' concerns were still being
considered.
It was the consensus o~.the City Council that a list of one word development names
should be generated to be reviewed at a future work session meeting. Council was
also advised to forward any names they may have for consideration.
C. Introduce Next Master Development Plan Topic - Roadways and
Infrastructure
Tom Whitlock, Damon Farber Associates, thanked the Council for their time and
stated he was looking for general comments to allow him to gather the information
needed to assist Council in making informed decisions on the park spaces,
infrastructure and streetscapes.
Councilmember Holden stated it would be helpful to know where the streets are
located, which would be four lanes and which are two lanes. She added that the
costs associated with lighting would be beneficial.
Councilmember Holmes questioned why PUD decisions were being made at this
time.
City Administrator Moorse stated this would assist in setting a common
development theme for future developers to establish lighting, sidewalk placement,
and design guidelines.
Mrc Whitlock indicated three meetings were scheduled for park and amenities
issues and three meetings for street components. He noted these items would then
be further discussed at these meetings before final decisions were made.
Councilmember McClung questioned when the water feature would be discussed.
He indicated this was a high priority to him.
Ms. Kvilvang indicated this would be discussed at a parks and amenities meeting.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17, 2008
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Councilmember Holmes asked when the ball fields would be discussed.
Mr. Whitlock stated the streets would be discussed first followed by park
discussions.
Mr. Whitlock indicated trail destinations, connections and movement through
TCAAP would need to be discussed by Council. He stated sidewalks and street
trees would also need to be determined.
Councilmember Holmes questioned if the neighborhoods would be established as
associations.
Ms. Kvilvang indicated some cities are moving toward this and that this may be
determined by the developer.
Councilmember Holmes asked if the design guidelines would then be handled by
the City or the homeowners association.
Ms. K vilvang stated these design guidelines would still be handled at a Council
level.
Mayor Harpstead noted the design parameters would determine the ultimate
pricing structure for the end user. He noted this would drive prices up or hold them
down.
Mayor Harpstead asked that left hand turns be discussed on the roadways to
establish which roadways would use these and which would be right in, right out.
Ms. Kvilvang noted this information would be required for the full build out to
establish right of way.
Mr. Whitlock noted permanent open water and ponds would need to be
determined along with the feel of the open spaces. He stated active recreation, ball
fields and trail connections would need to be decided as well.
Mayor Harpstead stated the water feature would be an important issue and that
the ones the Council has visited thus far had very different edges. He asked that
this be further discussed at a future meeting, along with a pedestrian bridge, and the
expenses associated with this amenity.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008
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Mr. Whitlock stated the water feature would only be water six months out of the
year. He suggested the Council consider winter uses, such as ice skating, for this
area as well; noting that this would need to be taken into consideration when
constructing the water feature.
Councilmember McClung asked that the yearly upkeep of the Centennial Lakes
water feature be presented. He also wanted to know the economic benefit of the
water feature for the property.
Mr. Whitlock asked the Council to consider the amenities and size of the Village
Green greenspace.
Mayor Harpstead stated outdoor seating at neighboring retail should be addressed
near the Village Green.
Councilmember McClung asked that active recreational alternatives be looked at
for the Village Green to diffuse the density.
Discussion ensued regarding the Village Green amenities.
Councilmember Holden questioned what would draw people to the Village Green
greenspace versus a park.
Ms. Kvilvang stated she would look to see if there are examples of high density
residential near greenspaces.
Councilmember McClung indicated he was fine with viewing other similar
properties "but that he wanted the Arden Hills development to be unique, not
copying what has already been done.
Mayor Harpstead stated he saw the Village Green as a gateway or transition area
to the higher density housing.
Councilmember Grant stated he would like the art in this area to be subtle and not
the main focus. He added that he was in favor of underground parking as well.
Mr. Whitlock stated his final question for Council would be to address the
neighborhood parks. He asked if Council was in favor of smaller parks or fewer
parks that were larger in scale. Mr. Whitlock indicated that the smaller the park
the fewer the amenities that could. be provided.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17,2008
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Councilmember Holden asked if the park land would be dedicated by the
developers.
Ms. Kvilvang stated this was the case or that it would be handled by the
homeowners association.
City Administrator Moorse indicated an estimate of the population that was being
served by the parks would need to be determined to help establish the amenities
needed within the parks.
Ms. Kvilvang stated this could be reviewed through the housing number estimates
and demographics. She indicated the housing developer could have parameters set
to meet the needs of the neighborhood as well.
Councilmember Grant stated he would be more in favor of manicured parks than
a natural setting.
Mayor Harpstead stated the natural setting was provided within the 49 acres of
the wildlife corridor.
Councilmember Grant stated he would like information on the economic benefits
of manicured versus natural parks. He indicated the value added would be useful
information in future decision making.
Ms. K vilvang thanked the Counc,il for their comments stating staff and consultants
would work together to prepare for the next meeting where information will be
brought back for Council decision.
2. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS
Councilmember Grant questioned what information staff has about Fannie Mae
due to the recent financial concerns.
Mr. Collins stated he felt it was good to have all of the housing concerns arise at
one time. He indicated that the concerns with Fannie Mae would be resolved by
the time this development began.
Mayor Harpstead asked if Ryan Companies had considered a residential partner
yet.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 17, 2008
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Mr. Collins stated the residential developers were working through their existing
inventory before considering the TCAAP property. He noted developers were
being informed of how the site was moving forward.
Councilmember Holmes expressed concern for the B2 County Road E study.
Councilmember Holmes asked why the study was proposing housing and office
space. She questioned if the current land owners were notified of these changes.
Community Development Director Lehnhoff stated these property owners were
notified of this study.
Councilmember Holmes stated she was very disappointed and that it was not
providing the information requested.
Mayor Harpstead suggested the Community Development Director and
Councilmember Holmes sit down together and discuss this item further to clarify
the misunderstandings.
Councilmember McClung stated he attended a very interesting fire board
meeting. He stood firm with the budget and that the City of Arden Hills would not
be supporting the Deputy Chief position.
Mayor Harpsteadadjou
eCily-BQ~llncil Work Session meetin at 8:36 p.m.
Ronald J. oorse
City Administrator