HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-8-08-WS
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Approved: October 13, 2008
CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING
SEPTEMBER 8, 2008
5:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Stan Harpstead called to order
the City Council Work Session meeting at 5:02 p.m.
Present: Mayor Stan Harpstead; Council Members David Grant, Brenda
Holden, Fran Holmes, and Dave McClung.
Absent: None.
Also present: City Administrator Ron Moorse; Assistant City Administrator
Noah Simon; Finance Director Susan Iverson; Community Development
Director James Lehnhoff; City Planner Meagan Beekman; Stacie K vilvang,
Ehlers & Associates; Gen McJilton, Ryan Companies; and Bruce
Chamberlain, Hoisington Koegler Group.
1. AGENDA ITEMS
A. TCAAP - Discussion on Type and Tenure of Housing
City Administrator Moorse indicated the purpose of this work session was to
discuss the August 20, 2008 tour of multi-family housing and to have Council
provide direction on the potential number of rental units to be constructed on the
TCAAP redevelopment property.
Stacie Kvilvang, Ehlers & Associates explained the Council is working towards a
Master Plan for the TCAAP property. She reviewed several slides with the Council
from the tour. Ms. Kvilvang noted the Council would need to begin to consider
what type of housing and building units they can see on the TCAAP site.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 8, 2008
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Ms. K vilvang indicated the Council would also need to consider the number of
rental units versus for-sale units. She stated she would review the current numbers
within the City to begin the discussion, along with a rental housing study. Ms.
K vilvang added that she would need input on senior housing versus market rate
and the quality of the exterior products on all the building structures.
Ms. Kvilvang noted there were very few apartments currently located in Arden
Hills. She stated there were an estimated 309 rental units within the City, 101
being apartments and 208 are single-family homes. Ms. Kvilvang added that the
current housing make up city-wide was approximately 90% owner occupied and
10% rental. She noted most cities have a split closer to 75/25 and further reviewed
the housing study with the Council.
Ms. Kvilvang explained that for the TCAAP development is proposing 300 units
of senior housing and 280 market rate apartment units. She noted there would be
3,700 owner occupied units and 909 rental units within the City once the TCAAP
property was developed, giving the City about an 80/20 split. Ms. Kvilvang then
reviewed the percentage of owner occupied properties to rental for neighboring
communities.
Mayor Harpstead questioned how many rental units were within the North Oaks
development.
Ms. Kvilvang stated there were 256 units. She further reviewed the site plans of
the complexes toured by the Council on August 20th.
Discussion ensued regarding the density within the units toured and the desired
units for the TCAAP site.
Councilmember Grant questioned if the numbers provided reflected the gross
density or the net density. Ms. K vilvang stated she has provided the gross density
for the Council.
Mayor Harpstead thanked staff for the slideshow reviewing the information and
asked for questions or comments from Council. He indicated staff was looking for
guidance on how to fill in the four dark brown areas on the site map, with a mix
between senior housing/market rate.
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ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 8, 2008
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Councilmember Grant stated he liked the way the North Oaks development
looked with 256 units. He questioned however, if this development could be
scaled down.
Ms. K vilvang reviewed how this development was broken down between owner
occupied and senior housing. She noted the North Oaks units were on 8.6 acres,
which included a pond.
Mayor Harpstead stated the amenities do add to the appeal of the developments.
He indicated the number of units may need to be increased to allow for the
amenities such as a community room, larger landscaped areas, pools, etc.
Councilmember Holden stated she wanted TCAAP to be viable and that most of
the sites they toured had their own gym, coffee shop, and additional services so
there would be no need to go outside of the unit.
Ms. Kvilvang indicated there is always a need for a grocery store and other
services not provided within the senior housing.
Councilmember Holmes noted concern for developing new strip malls within the
TCAAP site due to the fact Rosedale was such a commercial draw. She questioned
if the new residents would use these new services.
Councilmember Holden asked how the Council can be sure the added services
within TCAAP remain viable.
City Administrator Moorse added that all the sites have to be planned in a way
that they work together cohesively for the surrounding residents.
Councilmember Grant questioned how many amenities could be added to each
site.
Ms. K vilvang noted this would greatly depend on affordability both for the senior
housing and market rate.
Councilmember Grant asked if the residential rental units were going to be
affordable. He stated he would prefer a higher ratio of owner occupied to rental
within the TCAAP development, noting condominiums may be a favorable
product.
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ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 8, 2008
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Further discussion ensued regarding the number of current rental units within the
City, not including Presbyterian Homes, and how this ratio should be maintained.
Councilmember Grant indicated he was in favor of senior housing as the
population within Arden Hills was going to continue to age. He stated this would
allow them to transition into housing within the City.
The Council discussed the condos and townhomes they toured previously, noting
they were in favor of having these be a part of the TCAAP development.
Mayor Harpstead noted there will be a difference in opinions and preferences
amongst the Council as the housing type and tenure continues to be discussed. He
indicated the condo market was saturated at this time, which should be taken into
consideration.
Councilmember McClung agreed hoping that the Council would find a good
balance for the housing based on market demands.
Councilmember Grant questioned if market rate apartments or condos were more
appealing for TCAAP.
Councilmember Holden stated she would like to see these units laid out on the
site plan before she could comment. She questioned if the cost of townhomes
would be more beneficial versus condos.
Ms. Kvilvang noted this would depend on the number of units per acre and that the
cost to construct a townhome was greater than the construction of an apartment
unit.
Mayor Harpstead asked the Council if they were comfortable with four-story
rental units.
Councilmember McClung indicated he was in favor of the four-story units with a
higher density, allowing for additional amenities in another area.
Councilmember Grant agreed.
Ms. K vilvang indicated the density suggested within the Maxfield plan can be
adjusted. She explained the development plan was set over a 15 year span, which
may need changes.
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Councilmember McClung felt the percentage of rental to owner occupied was on
the high side. He stated he would like to see a diagram of how the 80/20 mix looks
City-wide and for the TCAAP property alone.
Ms. Kvilvang stated this was the split was currently shown.
Councilmember McClung noted he would not object to the 80/20 split City-wide
but would then like to see how this was going to be broken down into the different
types of construction and the location on the TCAAP site.
Mayor Harpstead agreed with the 80/20 split as well. He indicated he sees a
demand for entry level housing for young professionals, along with senior rental
housing versus a senior complex.
Councilmember McClung explained this is where the varying types of townhome
construction will be important to attract a variety of clientele.
Councilmember Holmes asked for the current goal.
Ms. Kvilvang indicated the goal would be to map out and have an understanding
of the density, type and location of the rental housing.
Councilmember Holmes suggested the proposed library within the development
be placed closer to the retail shopping district.
Councilmember Holden questioned if all the rental properties will be four stories.
She indicated this may pose a concern to the natural wildlife views.
Mayor Harpstead noted there was roughly 22 acres set aside for rental/higher
density units. He asked for direction from the Council as to how this area should
be developed. Mayor Harpstead placed his suggestions on the map for the Council
to discuss.
Councilmember McClung cautioned the Council in establishing specific areas for
rental and specific areas for owner occupied because when integrated they work
better together.
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Mayor Harpstead stated in order for the rental properties to have the level of
amenities to have them feel like a part of the community, it has to reach a certain
level of units.
Councilmember McClung agreed but stated integration between rental and owner
occupied property will benefit the community. He stated he was still
uncomfortable with the affordable housing side of things as it has not yet been
addressed.
Bruce Chamberlain, Hoisington Koegler indicated this project will be
implemented and approved over a long period of time. He stated at this time, the
Council needs to establish a framework to establish the public infrastructure and
identify targets and principles within the housing mix. Mr. Chamberlain
explained design principles should be set by the Council but that flexibility would
need to be maintained to review each development as it comes to the City to see
how it meets the established targets.
Mayor Harpstead noted he was comfortable with the numbers of the 1750
distribution. He indicated the sites toured were all favorable developments that he
can see added to the TCAAP site for the residents of Arden Hills.
Councilmember Holmes stated the Council may want to set some goals to aim for,
for each rental/owner occupied parcel.
Councilmember Holden questioned how the proposed apartment units would be
guaranteed to be well maintained into the future. She stated she did not want these
units to become an eye-sore for the community as other apartment complexes have.
Ms. KviIvang explained this could be addressed within the design guidelines to
have higher quality building materials used. In addition, working with a qualify
developer upfront who is a long-term investor, and looking at developing a rental
licensing program with annual inspection as well as reviewing other City codes.
Councilmember Grant asked about the sustainability. or demand for rental
apartments. He felt that the proposed rental spreadsheet with 600 rental units was
too high, especially with a portion of that being affordable housing.
Councilmember Grant indicated the higher density housing added to the
police/fire expense for the City, which may become a sustainability issue.
ARDEN HILLS. CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 8, 2008
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Mayor Harpstead asked if Councilmember Grant was in favor of reducing the
market rate rental on the TCAAP site.
Councilmember Grant stated he was because he felt 1/3 was too high.
Councilmember Holden questioned if storm water ponds were included in the
acreage set aside for rental property units.
Ms. Kvilvang noted the storm water would be handled regionally and that
everyone would feed into a series of ponds throughout the site. She stated not
every site would have its own pond.
Councilmember Holden stated she would like to see water features included to
increase the community feel.
Councilmember Grant stated regardless of cost to build, rental was higher to
maintain long term with fire and police. He asked that the Council consider this
when moving forward with the development.
Councilmember Holmes stated the senior rental may not effect this equation as
typical rental property does.
Ms. Kvilvang reviewed the feedback she received from the Council. She noted the
split between rental and owner occupied may be a concern, but that the Council
was interested in four-story rental units.
Ms. Kvilvang indicated Council expressed concern for the need to have amenities
near the rental development areas.
Councilmember Grant indicated this was crucial to have the rental properties be a
draw.
Councilmember Holmes stated the Maxfield study suggested 95-100
condominium units but that the current development plan has 200 units. She
indicated this was a concern for her.
Ms. K vilvang explained that the Council may be interested in mixing the rental
units with owner occupied properties as well.
ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - SEPTEMBER 8, 2008
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Mayor Harpstead stated Council was comfortable with repositioning some higher
density units within the dark brown space on the site plan.
Councilmember McClung agreed but stated if some of the higher density units
were centralized, a park may be needed in this area.
It was the consensus of the City Council to continue moving forward designing the
TCAAP housing based on the Council's discussion.
2. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS
There were no Council Comments and Requests at this time.