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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-15-08-WS ~ ~ILLS Approved: November 1 0, 2008 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING OCTOBER 15,2008 6:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Stan Harpstead called to order the City Council Work Session meeting at 6:01 p.m. Present: Mayor Stan Harpstead; Council Members David Grant, Brenda Holden, Fran Holmes, and Dave McClung. Absent: None. Also present: Public Works Director Gregory Haag; Community Development Director James Lehnhoff; Park and Recreation Manager Michelle Olson; Tom Whitlock, Damon Farber Associates; Gen McJilton, Ryan Companies; Joe Samuel, RLK; and Bruce Chamberlain, Hoisington Koegler Group. 1. AGENDA ITEMS Discussion ensued regarding the differences that will be created between the existing developed areas in Arden Hills versus the new development completed in TCAAP. Councilmember Holden questioned if it was fair to place new sign poles within the TCAAP development while the current street sign poles were dated. Mayor Harpstead stated he felt this was fair because eventually all of the street sign and poles will be upgraded. Councilmember Holmes indicated the parks amenities and trails would also be vastly different between the current parks and TCAAP parks. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 15, 2008 2 Mayor Harpstead again stated that he felt eventually all the parks would be at the same level so as not to create a separation of services within the City. Councilmember Grant stated TCAAP would assist the City in advancing development, increase the tax rolls and allow the City to invest funds back into current streets and parks, benefiting all residents. A. Overview of Direction on Roadways and Infrastructure Tom Whitlock, Damon Farber Associates presented the City Council with a review on the roadway and infrastructure discussion held on Monday, October 13, 2008. He noted Prior Avenue was the next street up for discussion, which was to have a similar feel as County Road H and Primary Parkway to tie the streets together visually. Mr. Whitlock explained it would be two lanes in each direction with a left hand turn lane, IO-foot trail and landscaped median. Mr. Whitlock continued reviewing the roadways by stating Rice Creek Parkway would begin at County Road H and head north, one lane in each direction. He explained the traffic flow in this area will be monitored to accommodate the traffic flow with a possible center turn lane in the future. Councilmember Holden questioned if there would be a fence between the wildlife corridor and the corporate campus. Gen McJilton, Ryan Companies stated this would only be put in place if the ,County required it because they would like to see a connection into the trail system from the back side of the campus for employees to take advantage of this during lunch or after hours. Councilmember McClung asked why there wasn't pedestrian lighting in the corporate campus area. He stated he would like to see this area looking high quality to serve the corporate patrons. Ms. McJilton stated in terms of the lighting, this could be considered but typically there will not be a large volume of pedestrian traffic in the corporate campus in the evenIng. Community Development Director Lehnhoff questioned if a bike lane would lead up to the corporate campus. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 15, 2008 3 Ms. McJilton stated she felt this would be beneficial for commuters. Mr. Whitlock indicated the next street type was a medium high-density street, which was pink in the diagram. He stated this fed into the medium and high- density housing. Mr. Whitlock indicated there could be a six-foot sidewalk on one side of these streets with parking bays and decorative pedestrian lighting. Councilmember Holmes expressed concern about the expense of the number of landscaped boulevards. She felt the budget would not allow for the extreme number of medians with trees and the maintenance required. Community Development Director Lehnhoff stated the Council has not committed to the medians at this point, but creating a starting point to allow for an estimate to be made. He indicated from there the numbers can be looked at to scale some items back and others forward. Ms. McJilton stated the numbers provided at this time were for a middle of the road expense and that the numbers could be scaled back or increased based on the future desires of the Council. Once further decisions are made they will be conveyed to the developers and Ryan Companies so the design requirements and landscaping expectations are known. Councilmember Holmes questioned who would be responsible for maintaining the medians and how that would be funded. Ms. McJilton explained the City would be responsible for the median maintenance and that it could be funded through a special district paid into like a homeowner's association. Public Works Director Hoag indicated the maintenance could be contracted out rather than placing this on the City crew. Discussion ensued regarding the street setbacks, sidewalk size and layout of medium density roadways. It was noted setbacks have not been determined to date. Mayor Harpstead questioned how wide the sidewalks would be in this area abutting the four-foot grass strip. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 15, 2008 4 Public Works Director Hoag indicated the sidewalks were set to be six feet wide but could be widened to eight feet if desired. He cautioned the Council to not eliminate the grass strip between the roadway and sidewalk as it was needed for snow storage in the winter. Public Works Director Hoag stated the grass strip should be seeded and not sodded to allow for the proper shade mix to be used. Mayor Harpstead indicated in residential neighborhoods he did not want to see signs, trees and streetlights coming up through sidewalks, but through a grassy median or boulevard to avoid from looking too urban. He added that this would allow for snow storage as well. Mr. Whitlock then explained the next type of roadway was open space parkway. He noted this was light blue on the diagram and connects to the Primary Parkway and creates an edge on the single-family housing. Mr. Whitlock indicated these roadways would have two-way traffic, a six-foot sidewalk on the residential side with a 10- foot boulevard with decorative lighting and parking bays. Mayor Harpstead noted he was in favor of having the parking located on the residential side of these streets. Mr. Whitlock reviewed the low-density residential street layout. He noted they would have two-way traffic with parallel parking on both sides of the street with a boulevard, six-foot sidewalks and decorative lighting. Councilmember Holmes stated she was not in favor of the six-foot sidewalk, boulevard and decorative lighting within the residential areas. She felt this would too greatly divide the City in comparison to the existing residential neighborhoods. Councilmember Holden asked if there could be sidewalks on one side of the street within the residential areas and not both. Ms. McJilton stated this was an option based on Council's comments. She noted developers are more inclined to have sidewalks and that is what the homeowners are requesting. Ms. McJilton indicated they are more difficult to add later. Councilmember Holmes questioned who was responsible for maintaining the residential sidewalks. Ms. McJilton explained these would be maintained by the homeowners association or the property owner. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 15, 2008 5 Councilmember Grant felt that the current design standard screams "this is not Arden Hills." He indicated the streetlights and sidewalks should be kept in however, because this will create a unique environment within TCAAP. Discussion ensued regarding whether sidewalks and decorative lighting was needed within the residential areas. Mayor Harpstead questioned if sidewalks were needed on one side, both or neither sides of the street. He indicated he would not insist that both sides of the street have sidewalks within the residential areas. Councilmember Holden stated this would depend greatly on the style and price range of the residential homes. Councilmember McClung indicated this may vary on the determined setbacks as well. He stated he was fine with allowing sidewalks on one side of the street. Councilmember Grant explained sidewalks should be placed on both sides of the street within this development. Ms. McJilton stated at a minimum the sidewalks should be placed on one side and that as the housing developers are identified further discussion could be held regarding setbacks and housing styles. She stated a walk-able community was trying to be created and these sidewalks and proposed lighting would greatly contribute. Councilmember Holmes questioned if the lighting could be fairly spaced out. Ms. McJilton stated the spacing could be addressed with the housing developers to establish a desired design standard. Councilmember Holden questioned who would pay for the decorative street lighting and the electricity. Public Works Director Hoag explained at this time the City pays for the electricity and that an LED light would be l!l oth the expense of a normal streetlight. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER ] 5, 2008 6 Mayor Harpstead indicated he would be in favor of lighting only on the sidewalk side of streets fairly spaced out. Councilmember McClung noted the amenities added will drive up what people will pay to live within these neighborhoods, which would increase the tax base. Mayor Harpstead noted many of the new residents will be young families with children who will require sidewalks and street lighting. Ms. McJilton summarized the Council's comments based on the discussion held and noted she would report back with additional information at a future work session meeting. She noted all medians should be uniform, concentrations at key points such as County Road H, 96 and Prior Avenue. Maintenance costs are a concern at this time but that a variety of trees are important as well as an irrigation system. Ms. McJilton stated a conceptual layout will be designed on where the medians will be with plantings. She indicated a low, medium and high level of these diagrams will be brought back for the concentrated areas to further discussion and how to proceed. Ms. McJilton explained the Council was in favor of a more contemporary LED style lighting versus traditional with uniformity to minimize replacement expenses. She added that low maintenance and vandal resistance was important as well. Ms. McJilton stated she would bring back some families of contemporary lighting including street and pedestrian lights for all price ranges to gain additional input. Ms. McJilton noted the Council preferred the stone patterned bridges, either limestone or granite. This will be brought back to the Council for feedback to revise this area, along with direction on the railings. Ms. McJilton indicated monument signs will be brought back at a later date after some of the above issues were determined. B. Parks and Amenities Joe Samuel, RLK presented the City Council with information on storm water drainage noting he has been working Ryan Companies for the past several years on this project. Mr. Samuel reviewed the existing site plan and noted as the site ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 15, 2008 7 continues to be developed a storm water plan needs to be implemented with ponds or storm sewer systems. Mr. Samuel indicated the vegetation around storm water ponds would need to be determined, along with if they should be manicured and how these will be maintained. He stated the ponds could be used recreationally, have fountains, etc. Mr. Samuel noted the City would be held to two requirements, water quality and water quantity. The rate at which the water is removed from the site is a concern along with how clean the water is. Mr. Samuel reviewed several types of ponds with the Council stressing the importance of the water level and quality. He noted vegetation was important surrounding these ponds. Discussion ensured regarding the predicted pond elevations and recreational uses of the ponds. Councilmember Holden questioned how the ponds were to be maintained. Mr. Samuel indicated the general rule of thumb was that the pond be dredged every 15-20 years. He stated the criteria for the TCAAP site would be to design a 10-acre drainage area. Mr. Samuel explained the Council would need to determine the type of storm system that will be implemented. Mayor Harpstead questioned how much expansion of water surface area was needed with a typical rainfall of one inch. Mr. Samuel felt that a 10-20% increase in surface area was a fair estimate. He stated with the vegetative shelf this may not be noticeable. Large rain events will create a larger fluctuation in the pond surface area. Councilmember Holden asked how many ponds were being proposed. Mr. Samuel stated this would be dependent on if the Council was in favor of large or small ponds for the site. Mayor Harpstead stated he would not be in favor of the water flooding the grassy areas with average rainfalls. He would like to see the ponds stay within their ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 15, 2008 8 confines as much as possible. Mayor Harpstead added that he did want to see tall grasses along the edge of the pond to avoid the influx of geese. Councilmember Grant stated he would be in favor of larger ponds that become amenities due to the fact they add value. He stated he would be interested in a concrete edge or riprap edge versus the natural edge. Councilmember Grant indicated the original plan had more ponds in the plan and that this has been scaled back after revisions. He explained this was a concern. Councilmember McClung agreed stating the water features will drive up the quality of the development. Councilmember Holden questioned how large was a "large pond". Councilmember Grant stated the minimum size was ten acres. Mr. Samuel stated ten acres was merely the area that would drain to the pond and not the actual pond size. Ms. McJilton reviewed several slides with the Council explaining the ratio of drainage land or grass to pond size as being roughly 50/50. Councilmember McClung stated he felt there was the space to create the ponding similar to Centennial Lakes with a SO/50 split of grass to land. He indicated Mayor Harpstead explained he was more in favor of concrete edges and more formal within the upper end with the southern pond more natural. He felt the natural edges had a benefit and added that he didn't see that a connection was essential due to the expense. Councilmember Grant stated the water feature within Centennial Lakes has become an amenity complete with ice skating in the winter. He stated he would like the north end water feature within TCAAP becoming this same feature to draw people to the green space. Councilmember Holden questioned what other uses are proposed for the area. Mayor Harpstead stated he would like to see a 50/50 split between water and grass to allow people to take advantage of the green space. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 15, 2008 9 Ms. McJilton stated the Council would have to establish a balance of amenities such as a pavilion, amphitheater, etc. Mayor Harpstead questioned if the Council was interested in islands. There was no interest in that amenity. Mayor Harpstead asked if the Council was interested in fountains. Conncilmember Grant stated this could be an interesting addition. Mr. Samuel added that a fountain allows the water to move and not become stagnant. Mayor Harpstead questioned if boats or canoes would be allowed within the ponds. Councilmember Holden felt that Rice Creek was a better location for boating. The Council was in agreement. Mr. Whitlock reviewed statistical information with the Council regarding the Centennial Lakes water feature. He reported the water area was 9.1 total acres with the TCAAP site proposed to be 15-16 total acres. Councilmember McClung questioned what the green space acreage was at Centennial Lakes. Mr. Whitlock reviewed the numbers stating the green space was roughly 13.9 acres with TCAAP being 14- I 5 acres for the central open space. Councilmember McClung stated after hearing these numbers the City of Arden Hills really has the potential to do something great with the water features and green space based on the land set aside for these amenities. Mr. Whitlock began to review suggested park amenities that could be offered within the central green space. Councilmember McClung stated he was not in favor of creating a park similar to those found downtown Minneapolis. He would like to see an open green space surrounded by trees. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - OCTOBER 15, 2008 10 Councilmember Holmes indicated she would like to see the northern pond offer amenities with the southern pond open with green space. CounciJmember Grant agreed with this suggestion. Ms. McJilton stated the northern park could offer amenltles that draw the community together with programs, while the southern pond would be a place for families to gather. Discussion ensued regarding the current parks within Arden Hills and the amenities offered based on the size of each park. Councilmember McClung stated the 80 additional acres could be set aside for park land, developed with ball fields and be used to generate revenue for the City. He indicated the current parks were overbooked every weekend. Councilmember Holden stated she was uncertain if the City should take on the ownership of this land. Ms. McJilton thanked the Council for their input and noted her associates would be coming back with a concept creating a northern pond that is community oriented with the southern pond surrounded by open space. C. Special Legislation Ms. McJiIton indicated this item was delayed to the November lOth meeting. 2. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS There were no Council comments or requests at this time. Mayor Harpstead adjou . e City Council Work Session meeti ) t8:12p.m. .~~ ~ Ronald J. oorse City Administrator