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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-19-08-WS ~ ~HILLS Approved: January 12, 2009 CITY OF ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING NOVEMBER 19, 2008 6:00 P.M. - ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Pursuant to due call and notice thereof, Mayor Stan Harpstead called to order the City Council Work Session meeting at 6:00 p.m. Present: Mayor Stan Harpstead; Council Members David Grant, Brenda Holden, Fran Holmes, and Dave McClung. Absent: None. Also present: City Administrator Ron Moorse; Public Works Director Gregory Hoag; Finance Director Susan Iverson; Civil Engineer Kris Giga; Community Development Director James Lehnhoff; City Planner Meagan Beakman; Gen McJilton, Ryan Companies; and Stacie Kvilvang, Ehlers & Associates. 1. AGENDA ITEMS A. Streets and Street Amenities Stacie Kvilvang, Ehlers & Associates, presented the Council with potential materials to be used on the bridge, including the curb, gutter and railing system. Councilmember McClung indicated he was in favor of the top picture presented without the railing system becoming to artsy. He stated he would like to see the railing open and inviting while still keeping people protected. Councilmember Holden agreed and asked if the suggested materials were all in the medium price range. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19. 2008 2 Ms. Kvilvang indicated that was correct. Councilmember Grant stated he would be in favor of a railing system that was a bit more stylish, not so square and boxy. He stated the picture on the bottom wasn't bad. Councilmember Holden questioned if the railing system would have the potential to rust. Damon Farber, Damon Farber Associates, indicated the paint on the railing systems is electronically adhered to resist rust. He indicated all railings are suggested to be black or dark brown. Councilmember Holden questioned if graffiti would be a concern on this bridge. Mr. Farber stated there was a product that can be painted or sprayed onto concrete and stone to minimize graffiti. He indicated it did not eliminate the graffiti but made it much easier to clean. Mr. Farber stated a multi-colored textured bridge was much less of an inviting canvas for graffiti versus the plain concrete. Mr. Farber further reviewed the medians and which ones would have areas of potential enhancement, such as along the Primary Parkway. He asked for comments and feedback from the Council as to the placement of these medians. Councilmember Holden asked for clarification on where Target was located within the TCAAP development. Ms. Kvilvang pointed out on the diagram where Target would be located and further explained how the medians would be placed in this area. Further discussion was held regarding the median layout, size and structure throughout the TCAAP development. Mayor Harpstead indicated he was in favor of the smaller areas of enhancement throughout the development. Councilmember McClung questioned if these proposed "enhancements" differed from the previous plan presented to the Council for this corridor. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19. 2008 3 Ms. Kvilvang explained the enhancements were an upgrade to the previous design plan and went over and above the medium price tange, upping the typical tree and sod in the median areas. Mayor Harpstead indicated it was possible to have one level of enhancements within the red area and a transitional enhancement that goes further into another area. Councilmember Holden questioned why all the enhanced medians were clustered together within the development. Mayor Harpstead agreed but stated that additional enhancements were not needed near the larger green spaces as they would draw the eye away from the medians. He indicated the light brown residential area might enjoy an enhancement within their median. Councilmember Holmes recalled that just the gateway rnedians were going to be enhanced and not the additional retail locations. Councilmember Holden stated this was what was discussed at the last meeting. Mr. Farber stated this can be done if the Council wishes, but that he is proposing three different levels of enhancements. He further reviewed the additional fees associated with the enhancement levels, A, Band C, including the maintenance expense. A comparison was reviewed to show what was included within each level. He explained that Level A, with low enhancements would cost $215 per linear foot and would include a boulevard with a six foot basic sidewalk along the retail. Councilmember Holmes questioned if the Council had agreed to the boulevards and medians. She did not recall approving these items. Mayor Harpstead indicated he thought the Council was in favor of boulevards along the Parkway. He stated a dollar figure was discussed to covet medians along the Parkway. Mayor Harpstead explained he was in favor of a planted median along the Parkway. Councilmember Holmes stated she felt nothing was agreed upon in this area and that she was unaware this would be a planted median. She indicated the City has had nothing but problems with planted medians. ARoEl'4 HILLs chy COuNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19; 2008 4 Councilmember Holden agreed. She indicated she has been driving around looking at various streetscapes to see which she is in favor of. Councilmembet H()l~en indi'iated her least favorite streetscape at this time would be those that include a boulevard because the grass was dead and weedy. Mayor Harpstead summarized that maintenance was a concern for the planted medians. He questioned if this was a lack of confidence in the maintenance or an overall disapproval of the planted medians. Councilmember Holmes stated she did not approve of the planted medians. Councilmember Grant indicated he assumed there would be boulevards along the Parkway and stated he would like a fair amount of green space maintained between the street edge and the edge of the sidewalk. He explained the median needs enough grass to be irrigated and mowed. Councilmember Grant stated he did not vote for the County Road 96 medians because the plantiIlgs were incorrect from the start. Public Works Director Hoag indicated if planted medians were to be approved the Council should assume they would be irrigated and chemically treated to keep thew green and weed-free. Councilmember McClung stated he envisions boulevards, either in the center or on the side of the roadways, but need to be adequately maintained to stay green. He felt the plantings should be minimal and limited to trees and grass. Mr. Farber indicated he was showing 10 feet of grass within the medians with trees. Councilmember Holmes questioned what types of trees are proposed for the boulevards. Mr. Farber explained the shade trees are planted IS feet high and aye projected to be 30 feet within five years. He stated the normal sized hardy, tolerant trees required an oversized boulevard for adequate water, air and soil. Ornamental trees planted in this area would reach a 15 foot height and would be used in areas where sight lines needed to be maintained. .; . . ARoEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19. 2008 5 Mr. Farber reported that the Level B design plan increased the cost to $350 per linear foot along with increasing the maintenance fee $5,000 a year. He indicated this plan added decorative banding along the sidewalks, additional plantings within the median along with decorative bollards. Mayor Harpstead questioned, from a design standpoint, what the decorative banding added. Mr. Farber stated it reduced the visual impact of a long straight sidewalk and added more detail. Councilmember Holden indicated she was not in favor of the decorative sidewalk banding. Mayor Harpstead agreed as there was little added benefit and that the shrubs in the median would just increase the maintenance concerns for the medians. He noted he was in favor of the bollards. Mr. Farber indicated the bollards do provide a level of comfort and safety to pedestrians and offer traffic calming to the drivers. Councilmember McClung stated he felt the bollards were not necessary. Mr. Farber explained that based on the coh1h1ents thus far, the Council was in Javor of a more simple design plan and that the additional decorative items were not required. Councilmember Holmes questioned if evergreen trees were an option within the medians. Mr. Farber stated evergreen trees were not an option due to the use of salt and the reduced visibility they cause is a safety concern. Councilmember Grant indicated he would be in favor of up lighting in planted medians Gen McJilton, Ryan Companies explained it would be helpful if the COUl1cil were to review the enhancements and say which they were in favor of to cteate a plan with the right components to cfelite a more realistic visual of the development. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19. 2008 6 Councilmember McClung stated visuals would be helpful for the two entrance points into TCAAP from Highway 96 and County Road H. Councilmember Holden agreed. Mayor Harpstead suggested the Council review the amenities available and report back to staff which they were in favor of for lighting, trees, etc. He indicated after this information was gathered, a visuaI could be created for further review. Councilmember Holden stated she doesn't want the County Road H entrance to be so over decorative that the Highway 96 entrance feels like less. She would like to see the entrances being similar. Councilmember Grant stated Prior should be a point of enhancement as well. Councilmember McClung agreed stating this may be more of a secondary entrance and that he would like to see continuity along County Road Hand 96 and that they have the same look and feel. Further discussion was held regarding the amenities within the boulevards along with irrigation implications. Mr. Farber stated a more detailed traffic study will reveal the volume of traffic in these areas, but that enhancements will calm traffic in the high volume areas with larger intersections. It was the consensus of the City Council to have the Councilmember's discuss with staff further the amenities they were in favor of individually after which time a new visual will be created and presented at a future meeting. B. Parks and Park Amenities Joe Samuel, RLK, reviewed the open space design with the Council and asked for a preferred configuration of the pond and additional feedback in this area. He indicated there were three options, the fIrst having two ponds with a green space of 42 acres with 16 acres of storm water pond to accommodate the larger rainfalls. Mr. Samuel explained that Option I shows the north pond with an edge condition that is 90% structured and 10% natural. .' . ,.;;,',,)\,..'.,', ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19. 2008 7 Councilmember Grant indicated he was in favor of the sample pond that was emailed to the Council with the combination of structured edge and stone, which gave it a nice look. Councihhember Holden questioned what staff preferred from a maintenance point of view. Public Works Director Hoag indicated he would be in favor Of the structured grass with the turf grass. He stated this would be much easier to maintain. Mr. Samuel stated there would be maintenance fees involved with the ponds and that every 25 years the pond would need to be dredged along with debris removal. He indicated large rainfall events would impact the outer structute. Coullcilmember Holden questioned, if the pond has to be dredged, which was easier for maintenance, a grass edge or stone edge, based on the access needed for the equipment. Mr. Samuel stated a natural edge pond would be mme accessible for dredging. Public Works Director Hoag added that the City is using less and less sand which would be the reason for the dredging. Councilmember McClung asked if the City of Edina could be contacted to see how they have maintained Centennial Lakes. Mayor Harpstead stated he was in favor of the north pond having more structure with the south pond having less. He added that the pictures showing trees right up to the pond created a nice visual. Councilmember Holmes questioned if the ponds were constructed for a 100 year storm or 1,000 year storm. Mr. Samuel indicated they were engineered to hold a 100 yeat event. He stated there were overflow areas that would take additional water. Mr. Samuel explained . that as the storm watet system was engineered to h~ll;1dle latger and larger events, the expense would increase exponentially. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19. 2008 8 Mr. Samuel went on to further explain Option 2, having 60% of a structured edge with 40% natural vegetation edge. He indicated Option 3 would have a 100% natural edge. Councilmember Holden indicated she would be in favot of more green space. Mayor Harpstead added that he was in favor of the first north pond, but more green space north of it. He eXplained he was in favor of the south pond moving towards the entrance to add to the welcoming effect of the park with a small hard edge. Discussion ensued regarding the placement and surtounding structure of the ponds within the large green space. The Council was in favor of the third picture, taking that pond and putting the 90% hard edge for the north pond. Councilmember McClung indicated he was in favor of the 90/1 0 split and agreed that the south pond should be further south with 10% structure. Mayor Harpstead stated he thought it would be appealing to have water within the south pond with the structured edge. Councilmember Grant was in favor of a structured edge around the pond. He felt this was more upscale and would add to the value of the area, along with easier maintenance. Councilmember Grant stated he could see a 90/1 0 split on the north pond with a 50/50 split on the south pond. . Councilmember Holden indicated if everything were perfectly manicured it may be nice to have some area surrounding the ponds natural. Councilmember McClung explained he was a proponent of the surfaces used around Centennial Lakes. He stated he would like to see the north pond with a structured edge and the south pond more like a mini "Lake of the Isles". Councilmember McClung indicated he felt this would create a great ehtrance to the park. Councilmember Grant questioned if a structured edge were used and rocks were added would this be considered a natural edge. He stated his only concern with the structured edge would be the growth of weeds. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION ~ NOVEMBER 19.2008 9 Mayor Harpstead indicated he felt this would create a natural edge. Councilmember Holden noted she was in favor of the 90% structure and 10% natural split on the north pond and 10/90 on the south pond. CouncihlleIllber Holmes stated she would like to see the south pond 50/50. Mr. Farber identified potential amenities that could be located within the large amounts of green space. He :rolled out the site plan and asked the Councilmember's to place the ponds on their map along with the additional amenities they would like to see in this area, including sport courts, tot lots, pathways, ice rink, community building, fountains, etc. Councilmember Holden indicated she would like to see a windmill at this park to increase the green factor within this development. Mayor Harpstead stated he would like to talk the National Guard into putting a windmill on their property for their facility in such a way that it is a visual presence. He eXplained a great deal of land would have to be allocated for a windmill and that he did not feel there was enough to spare for this development. Ms. McJilton suggested a windmill be placed near the ball fields if absolutely necessary. Councilmember Grant indicated the development could be integrated with a windmill into the new electrical grid. Public Works Director Hoag suggested that cell towers and windmill be located near the athletic fields. Discussion ensued regarding what amenities would be in the park and where they would be located, along with the pending expenses associated with the amenities. Councilmember Holmes stated she insists on a formal gatden within this green space. It was noted the proposed forinal garden currently suggested to be 90' x 120'. She added that she would like a clock tower as well. Public Works Director Hoag suggested the specialized items be added to this park and that ball fields be placed within the neighborhood parks. He indicated "','.",,<,' :;i,. i, ',; ;,";,:>.. "" j" ':" ,< ," "",', i',r""::,,',;,,,; ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19. 2008 10 there was not enough parking surrounding the park to accommodate peak time use for ball fields. Mayor Harpstead questioned who was in favor of the skatihg ovallhockeyrink. Frol11 a liability standpoint, staff suggested no skating be allowed on the stortn water ponds. Councilmember McClung suggested again that the City of Edina be contacted to see how they handled winter skating and if the storm ponds were used. The Council had a discussion regarding public restrooms versus satellites. Public Works Director Hoag stated that if public restrooIIlS were put on this site that a staff person be on site whenever the bathrooms were open to keep them clean and to reduce vandalism. Ms. McJilton suggested three different restroom locations based on the size and scale of the park. She added that one location should be near the amphitheater, with another location near the open space that could be enclosed satellites. The Council further discussed the number and type of fountains that would be used within the ponds. It was agreed that several fountajns would be placed within the ponds for aeration, but that the scale and number needed to be determined. The Council was not in favor of public art in this area but did want to include one tot lot, along with a 300 seat amphitheater and warming house. Based on the amenities chosen by the Council a rough estimate for the park came in at $3 million. Councilmember McClung indicated this was not a surprise and that this exercise shows to him he does not want the park to be cluttered. Mayor Harpstead agreed. Councilmember Holden asked that the list of items be reviewed to show which items were in and which were out, along with the location within the park. Mayor Harpstead reviewed the location of the amenities within the park to create a general understanding for all Councilmember's. Further discussion ensued regarding the ponds and how wetland vegetation would be created, along with where a floating board walk would be placed. The Council ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNcIL WORK SESSION - NOVE11BER 19. 2008 11 asked for additional photos as to how the northern arid southern ponds would look based on the suggestions tonight. Councilmember Holmes reviewed the placement of public art as being a solo . . piece along with the clock tower. Mayor lIarpsteatl asked that each Councilmei:nber goifuough and state one item within the park that essential and one that could be dismissed. Councilmember Grant noted his biggest concern was the green space lost by the bounce. He indicated he was not real big on the paddleboats, but understood it was an amenity to offer the community. Councilniember Grant stated he felt the space abutting the higher density should be a focus to draw them to the area. Councilmember McClung explained the amphitheater and boathouse building were a concern to him at this time along with the basketball/tennis courts. He felt the ball courts could be programmed into other park sites on TCAAP or elsewhere due to their expense and large use of space. Councilmember McClung stated he was in favor oflots of green space and a large water feature. Councilmember Holmes indicated her concern was with the water feature as she didn't understand how it works. She was most in favor of a rose garden or formal garden. Councilmember Holden stated she felt that trees were important along with park shelters to allow people to gather. She eXplained she may be more in favor of a garden if it wasn't a high maintenance rose garden, but rather perennials, etc. Mayor Harpstead stated he foresees the corridor between the street and the north end of the park being very important. He indicated the paddleboats weren't crucial to him. Mayor Harpstead agreed with Councilmember McClung's statement that the sport courts could be moved due to the amount of space they will consume in this park. Councilmember Holmes stated she may be in favor of c1Topping the paddleboats because they would have to be maintained and manned by City staff. ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMI3ER 19. 2008 12 Councilmember Holden agreed. Ms. Kvilvang stated there were options with the paddleboats and that the City could hire this service out to a private vendor that would bring in boats, rent them out and be responsible for their maintenance. It was the consensus of Council to direct Staff to capture the comments from Council tonight and report back with a park scheme that refines these park amenities. 2. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND REQUESTS City Administrator Moorse reviewed comments made at the Fire Board meeting held earlier today. He eXplained the Council will need to spend time over the next year to review the staffing, call tesponse plan, etc. so the City knows what things should look like before the next budget cycle. Councilmember McClung agreed stating this would be timely but would benefit the City greatly to see where time is being spent and how many staff members are needed within the duty crew and that other strategic planning issues could be addressed. Mayor Harpstead noted he had a meeting with Matt Kramer, along with Sandy Martin, and City Administrator Moorse. He stated they had a good discussion about County Road I. City Administrator Moorse stated it was his impression that County Road I would not affect funding. Mayor Harpstead explained that the County Road H issue was a priority for the Governor and trying to bring resources becaUse this was not something the City of Arden Hills could do alone. City Administrator Moorse indicated he had a meeting with Ehlers regarding TCAAP where it was mentioned that Ryan Companies has done a 10% layoff of staff due to the economy. Councilmember McClung asked if this would affect the TCAAP development. City Administrator Moorse stated this would not affect the development from moving forward as scheduled. ,'..1 ".., ARDEN HILLS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION - NOVEMBER 19. 2008 13 City Administrator Moorse indicated dog license renewals were being completed at this time, as they are done every two years. He questioned if the Council was in favor of cohtil1uing the process every two years. The CouIldl advised staff to proceed with the renewal process as is. Councilmember Grant stated he enjoyed the parks and amenities exercise that was completed at the meeting tonight. Mayor Harpstead agreed suggesting that the PTRC complete a similar exercise to provide feedback to the Council on the amenities they would like to see within the TCAAP green spaces. Councilmember Holden stated these general conversations should be held by Council and not passed alohg to the commissions or committees. Mayor Harpstead stated the Council would be responsible for setting policy, laying the groundwork and establishing the budget. He indicated the location, placement and design of each amenity should be the work of the PTRC along with additional community involvement. t e 'ty Council Work Session meeting at 8:44 p.m. Ronald J. M se City Administrator