HomeMy WebLinkAbout1990-04-19 Minutes r
Pursuant to due call and notice thereof the Planning and Zoning
Commission and the City Council of the City of Centerville held a
joint public hearing on Thursday, April 19, 1990. The purpose of
this hearing was to hear all persons present regarding the
possibility of amending Ordinance #4, Sections 21.01, 24, 25.03,
25.05, 33.01, TABLE A - SCHEDULE OF DISTRICT REGULATIONS
PERMITTED AND SPECIAL USES, TABLE B - SCHEDULE OF DISTRICT
REGULATIONS LOT AND YARD REQUIREMENTS, and SCHEDULE OF DISTRICT
REGULATIONS MINIMUM GROUND FLOOR AREA OF STRUCTURES, This
arnenument concerns the incorporation of an R -5 zoning district.
This ci is intended to urovide a residential atmosphere for
those person;.: desiring a single - family neighborhood with higher
value horses. Density is meant to be suburban in character. The
district is intended for development of detached homes on lots
served with public sewer and water, Chairman Tourvilie called
the hearing to order at 7:04 p.m. Planning and Zoning Commission
members present: Drilling, Wilharber, Vermeulen, Welk. City
Council members present: Haberman, Neumann, Felton, Peterson,
Purgstahiet
Chairman Tourvt-ile summarized the proposed amendment to members
of the Planning and Zoning Commission, City Council and audience.
Chairman Tourvilie noted that the meeting had been delayed three
times due to errors in publishing the public hearing notice.
Council member Felton doted that there are proposed changes in
house size in the other districts.
Council member Bargstahler asked to have the ranges for yard -
lot requirements being considered repeated to the members of the
audience. The range being considered for the R -5 zoning district
is 17,500 - 25,000 square feet noting that there was no mention
of minimum width and this would need some discussion.
Chairman Tourvilie noted that 100 widths were discussed at the
Planning and Zoning level. Chairman TourvilJe also noted that
the biggcst chzngs would ke t nf A n -Fi ,lrll i s
district.
Chairman Tourvilie opened the meeting to the public for comments.
John Stewart, City Engineer, was present. Mr. Stewart suggested
that Article 2, Section 24, 24. (1)
"All structures shall have permanent concrete or wood
foundations which..."
be amend to: All structures shall have a permanent
concrete foundation which..."
Council member Burgstahler questioned if this change is
recommended due to the water table in Centerville.
Mr. Stewart explained that the development within the City over
the last couple of years may cause the water table to come up.
P&Z Public Hearing
Page Two
April 19, 1990
Council member Neumann noted that his personal experience with
wood foundations is that they tend to need to be replaced within
ten years.
Chairman Tourviile questioned as to what the advantages of a wood
foundation might be
Mr. Stewart noted that wood foundations tend to be less
expensive, quicker to install and could be installed by yourself.
Mr. Stewart also suggested the following changes:
Article 2, Section 24, 24. (6)
"...Sheet metal siding shall not be permitted in such
districts not over at least fifty (50) percent of
entire structure."
be amended to: "Sheet metal siding shall not be permitted
in such districts not over at least fifty (5) percent
of exterior walls."
Article 2, Section 24, 24. proposed (8)
"Ail future new dwellings in and R -5 single family
residential district shall have an attached double
garage of a minimum of 600 square feet."
be amended to: All future new dwellings in an R -5 single
family residential district shall have an attached
multi -bay garage of a minimum of 600 square feet.
Gerald Rchbein, 6266 Otter Lake Road, was present. Mr. Rehbein
noted that Article 2, Section 24 (2) reads that no residential
structure shall have a width of less than twenty -four feet at its
narrowest point. All the houses in the Hardwood Pond Estates
development are twenty -three feet at the basement level and felt
that this change would create a "box' impression.
Chairman TGUrV 11113 p0lnted out to Mr. Rehbein that. this in fact
was not a change. The Ordinance presently calls for a width not
less than twenty -four feet.
Council member Felton felt that in light of this, all the homes
in the Hardwood Ponds Estates are not up to code.
Council member Burgstahler questioned Mr. Rehbein as to where his
houses come out to meet the twenty -four foot requirement.
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Mr. Rehbein noted that the house comes out at the basement.
Council member Burgstahler noted that ail the homes in Hardwood
Pond Estates appear not to be in compliance.
P &Z Public Hearing
Page Three
April 19, 1990
Chairman Tourville noted this was inserted sometime after the
ordinance was adopted and was considered when manufactured homes
came into the City.
yr. Re'tbein, in his opinion, felt the proposed R -5 yard - hot
requirements were a lot larger than what is required in the
surrounding communities. Mr. Rehbein noted that in his Center
Hills development the R - -2 lots average about 20,500 square feet,
and suggests shooting for a minimum noting that some lots will
always be larger.
Mort Hubers, 4943 Otter Lake Road, White Bear Lake, was present.
Mr. Hubers offered the following comments:
- Lino Lakes has a minimum of 12,500 in their executive
zoning district. Mr. Hubers has a development in Lino
Lakes off of Birch Street with the larger homes, but
the lots are not large;
- People would be spending their money on the lot;
- That costs are based on the front footage, which would
cause the houses to be smaller in size;
That larger lots collect more junk;
- Thinks the proposed R -6 would be a bad move for
Centerville;
- Centerville is only so big and that Centerville can not
annex more land;
- The cost for services would be increased;
This would be larger than required by the surrounding
communities;
-
That it would be to big a Lot, to develop on
sewer /water;
- Questioned if the land to east of his proposed Acorn development 'e zoned R-;
Creek
That he does not consider 12,500 square feet to be high
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density and suggests that Tamara Mitz- Miller,
Clerk; Administrator, be directed to gall forty cities
to see what their minimum lot - yard requirements are;
- What does Centerville have that is so special to
justify these larger lots;
- Feels that he has been treated as an outsider;
Charles Brenner, 7206 Clear Ridge, was present. Mr. Brenner
noted that he lives on a sizeable lot. Mr. Brenner personally
likes bigger lots and that is what made his lot attractive to
him.
Judy Burgstahier, 7381 Mill Road, was present. Ms. Burgstahler
stated that she enjoys the rural atmosphere of Centerville. In
Ms. Burgst.ahler's opinion the bigger the lots the better.
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P &Z Public Hearing
Page Four
April 19, 1990
John Buckbee, 7381 Peltier Circle, was present. Mr. Buckbee
noted that the area proposed for the R -5 zoning district appears
to presently have larger homes, and that with the creation of
this district it would best suit the area. The more people that
move into the City, the chances for more problems exist. Mr.
Buckbee would like for the Comprehensive Plan to be followed, and
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feels that the creation of this zoning district would be
following the Comprehensive Plan.
Council member Pelton felt that this could be attractive to a
certain segment of the population.
Chairman Tourville noted that south of the City of Hugo are one
acre sewered lots, with no curb and gutter. Chairman Tourville
also noted that in his opinion the lots sold quite well.
Mr. Hubers commented that Ken Huber, City Administrator for the.
City of Hugo, slipped this into MUSA and that the developers of
this were quite unhappy.
Council member Burgstahler noted that he was familiar with the
area in Hugo, and that the streets were black topped and the
homes appear to be larger in size.
Council member Pelton questioned Charles Brenner if he bought a
home that was already built, or did he have the house built for
himself, and what size lot did he own.
Mr. Brenner noted that he bought a pre -built home. His lot is
approximately 1/2 acre in size. Mr. Brenner also noted that in
his opinion there is not a lot of 1/2 acre lots available and
that most of the lots tend to be in the 1/4 acre range.
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Council member Felton noted the r "eason for the creation of a R -5
zone was to be in compliance with the Comprehensive Flan. There
are a few areas in the City that could be marketed as estate type
homes. The provision for a buffer to the adjacent teri acre lots
in the northern part of the City and other parts of the City must
also be addressed. She would like to see protection of the
existing property owners lifestyles to avoid problems.
Mr. Hubers noted that the plan for the proposed Acorn Creek
development submitted in the past was nice. Mr. Hubers suggested
setting an average under PUD of 17,000 square feet. Mr. Hubers
felt that the more new housing units that are development in
Centerville the lower the tax base would be.
Council member Burgstahler questioned if anybody has seen studies
1 correlating the size of lots and houses that would support the
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r• &Z Public Hearing
Page Five
April 19, 1990
idea that the more dense the developments the lower the taxes.
John Stewart rioted that East Bethel's minimum lot - yard
requirements is 2 1/2 acres, and they appear to have the lowest
taxes.
Mr. Hullers stated that if you go to Chisago City were they
require 2 1/2 - 5 acre lots that the taxes are high.
Council member Felton felt the City should offer a variety of
housing and lot sizes.
Mayor Haberman noted that the purpose of the public hearing was
to hear the general public. The City Council and Planning and
Zoning Commission is well aware of Mort Aubers position. Mayor
Haberman expressed that he would like to have a minimum of around
17,000 square feet and look at an average above and beyond that.
The larger lots would give room to add on for the general public
and the Planning and Zoning Commission should see need for
variances. Mayor Haberman feels larger lots are what the
citizens of Centerville want.
Mr. Hubers expressed that he felt the citizens of Centerville did
not want the larger lots since there was not a large turnout for
the public hearing in his opinion.
Council member Felton noted that since this public hearing was
published a lot, that she would take it at face value.
Mayor Haberman stated .
y that the citizens 1Seu5 that. have approached him
are in favor of larger homes and lots. Mayor Haberman also
r t areb t.}} no one had approached him expressing the need for
smaller lots;. Mayor Haberman felt that 'Centerville must do what
they want for their city and adhere to the concerns of the
citizens while trying to accommodate developers.
Council member Peterson stated that in the last ten years
tihore:view and Turtle Lake have split larger lots to fill in. He
also expressed the concern that the Planning and Zoning
Commission and the City Council might be looking at this issue
from an emotional point of view. He also questioned if in ten to
fifteen years will people want to break /split lots and sell. Mr.
Peterson felt that "open livingg' has come to an end.
Howard Bohanan, 8600 kylorr Avenue North, was present. Mr.
Bohanan expressed concern over how this proposed amendment would
effect his Centerville Heights Development.
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P&Z Public Hearing
Page Six
April 19, 1990
John Stewart noted that new building permits after the initiation
of the amendment would have to comply.
Commission member Wilharber questioned Mr. Bohanon as to what the
average size of homes in the Centerville Heights development. Is
Mr. Bohanon stated that the average is 900 square feet, with a
dozen or so houses meeting the minimum.
Mr. Stewart suggested setting a time limit of one year after the
implementation of the ordinance to provide a window for lots
already platted.
Chairman Tourville stated that he never interpreted this proposed
amendment to include platted lots.
Mr. Stewart stated that this would be an administrative
"nightmare': for the City. The City would have to check the date
that a lot was platted before issuing a building permit.
Howard Bohanon expressed that in his opinion Centerville was
banged around by several developers. The school was about to
close and Centerville wanted development to come in to help. He
would like to see development already on the agenda be able to
meet the old requirements.
Commission member Welk noted that the school was not anywhere
near closing, in fact the opposite is happening and the school is
bursting at its seams.
Council member Pelton noted that Centerville needs
commercial /industrial development.
Mike Davis, 7156 Brian Drive, was present. Mr. Davis questioned
if a house is taxed on its square footage.
Council member Pelton noted that taxes are based on the home and
lot and that many variables, such as improvements, apply.
Chairman Tourville noted that he had questioned the County
Assessor about the value of small versus large lots. Chairman
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Tourville understood that there is very little bearing on the
size of the lot, 10 was based more on the buildability of the
lot.
Council member Burgstahler noted that this is very complicated.
Some taxes are built into the cost of the lot_ A larger lot may
not increase taxes but amenities can add to taxes. Larger homes
are taxed at a higher rate.
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P &Z Public (Hearing
Page Seven
April 19, 1990
Council member Felton felt. that 17,500 square foot would
reasonable.
Antoinette Knudsen, 7149 Brian Drive, was present. Ms. Knudsen
felt that smaller lots allow the first time home buyer to be able
to afford the purchase of a new home.
Council member Felton felt that the City has addressed this need.
with the City's present R2A district. She would like the City to
provide a range of housing rather than having all of the same
type.
Chairman Tourville felt that an important lessons had been taught
in the creation of the R-4 Manufactured Housing. This was to be
low cost housing on smaller lots. This development did not sell
well, once they started putting in larger homes it appeared to
start selling better. The cost of the housing was to be $40,000
- $48,000 and this did not appear to be the case.
Mayor Haberman felt that the City has allowed housing for the
young. In his opinion the housing trends seem to be leaning
towards larger non - starter homes.
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Kenneth Knudsen, 7149 Brian Drive, was present. Mr. Knudsen
stated that they had moved into a neighborhood that, they could
afford but would like to someday have a larger home with a larger
lot and would like to see this available to him.
Commission member Wilharber felt that the creation of an R -6
zoning district would be a good move for the City.
Chairman Toul.vi1bc stated th he ran113d like to see a 15,000
square fort minimum with 100" front footage and require a larger
home. The Metropolitan Council has noted that the trend towards
first time home buyers will diminish. The community needs to
offer a variety of housing. Chairman Tourville has noted that
the presently platted lots or future lots issue needs to be
addressed.
Motion by Wilharber, second by Vermeulen to adjourn the public
hearing, motion carried unanimously. Hearing adjourned 8:30 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
'3a n1,dt o E. Pkkcx -c e-,
Sanna E. Buckbee
Assistant City Clerk
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