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Regular City Council Meeting Monday,November 21,2011 Page 16 that third party verification; with the ultimate goal for residents to have a quality building. Mr. Hilbert advised that, at this point in the design process, he was not prepared with that kind of detail; advising that the design team was recommending that goals be sought, but noted that third party verification was still required to certify the systems. City Manager Malinen noted that the construction should be able to reach certifi- cation at the silver level with little additional effort; however, he noted that either one would need to have the additional price tag associated with that certification; and before adding to construction costs, the proposed fire station would be the first recognized in the State of MN in reaching that mark of sustainability that was verifiable through the certification process. Mr. Malinen noted that that recogni- tion alone should provide proof to citizens and others that the design and use of the building would be sustainable and save money and reduce the City's carbon footprint. Councilmember Johnson spoke in absolute support of sustainable building; and if silver certification was already built into the proposed design and construction, it caused him pause to ask whether a plaque certifying that fact was necessary. If the design team assured him that sustainability was built into the facility, Coun- cilmember Johnson stated that he could take pride in that knowledge without hav- ing a third party tell him so. Councilmember Johnson advised that, for him, this created a dissent on the question as to which third party verification was pre- ferred: LEED or Green Globes. While recognizing cost concerns and desiring additional information on how much it would cost for minimum gold certification with a cost cap, Councilmem- ber Pust asked the design team to return with that information. Councilmember Pust opined that the reason for certification wasn't just to verify that the work was sustainable construction; but it allowed the City Council to have a different con- versation with the public. With LEED certification, Councilmember Pust opined that this provided an entirely different context in which to hear about HRA dis- cussions, Living Smarter campaigns, and how to incent all residents to do better; and this LEED certification provided the City Council's leadership and engaged them in those discussions. How much that discussion was worth, and how much could be done for cost and still be certification was the question being considered by Councilmember Pust in the value of achieving silver certification and the actu- al cost in that or seeking a higher level. Further discussion included certification permits required in the application pro- cess, and varying on the size of a building, as well as commissioning and energy modeling as part of that fee, determining the cost of LEED certification; and ranges for commissioning based on all aspects and categories for different costs,