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Regular City Council Meeting Monday,July 25, 2011 Page 23 based system would continue to evolve as the process continued. Mayor Roe noted that the Council majority agreed on the preferred level of detail for deci- sion-making for program-based budgeting; however, he recognized that it didn't necessarily mean that additional information may not be needed as the process continued. Mayor Roe advised that this had been his rationale in establishing the two (2) opportunities for Council discussion with Department Heads to delve in to those issues and determine impacts of proposed reductions; then to go forward for public comment to keep everyone informed throughout the process. Mayor Roe reiterated his disappointment in where they were at in the process at this time. Councilmember Johnson concurred with Mayor Roe in the unfairness of asking staff to delve into an alternative budget process at this time. Councilmember Johnson opined that what made this more complicated than previous years, was the added CIP component; however, he further opined that it definitely wrapped the whole budgeting picture together. Councilmember Johnson advised that he was seeing this year's budget process much more comprehensively than in the last three (3) years; and recognizing that difficult decisions were needed. Council- member Johnson expressed his appreciation to Department Heads and the City Council for their efforts to-date. Councilmember Johnson asked that the City not abandon what had been accomplished so far by going into another type of budget scenario that would negate what had been accomplished. Councilmember John- son expressed confidence that Councilmember Willmus would be able to get the information he needed with one-on-one discussions with Department Heads; with the issues all having surfaced now. Councilmember Willmus expressed concern, from the perspective of having access to that information, how it will be disseminated to the public, especially when he couldn't determine what made up the numbers presented in the slides to- night. Councilmember Willmus reiterated the need to raise transparency; and get- ting the numbers form Department Heads to the public. Councilmember Willmus noted that this would not change the CIP or the exercises to-date; but would pro- vide a more open and transparent process for the community. Councilmember Johnson noted that there was frustration on the part of the City Council and citizens he'd talked to on the budget, in how the numbers keep changing. However, Councilmember Johnson noted that City Manager Malinen had explained that tonight through staff reacting to the CIP proposal and need to keep numbers fluid for staff to react to redirecting funds from operating to CIP. Councilmember Johnson reminded all that this was the first attempt to make structural changes to the City budget to this degree. Mayor Roe noted that the numbers for the approximate 200 programs still needed to be broken out into the four(4) categories outlined by Mr. Miller; and expressed confidence that the next step in the process would fill in a lot of those numbers. However, he reiterated his concern that those details had not been available by Ju-